Is SGA > DeAaron Fox?

[UK19]

If you have your choice of two SI Swimsuit Models to date, you don't waste time splitting hairs. You just drop to your knees and say "Thank You, Jesus !!!"

 

[Blueaz]

I am going to disagree here as well.

Shai was not remotely close to being a natural PG.

His passes were reckless, his handles were shaky and all too often he drove into traffic and for awhile forced way too many shots.

That’s not usually signs of a high IQ...

The way he has been able to self correct during the season may very well be IQ or at the least tremendous will power and determination.

He has thoroughly impressed me with his ability to continue to improve his game across all facets.

Predicted top ten pick and climbing.
Word is that suns my trade their lower picks to move up and get him.
Ulis has really folded this season.

 

[brianpoe]

Predicted top ten pick and climbing.
Word is that suns my trade their lower picks to move up and get him.
Ulis has really folded this season.

I am very interested in seeing how Shai does against those "natural" PGs coming out this season about the same size with better 3pt%.

If he comes out of workouts still on top of all but Sexton and Young it will be a great testament to his hard work, because he was not close when the season started.

 

[ZenCatFan73]

Depends on your definition of better. From a pure talent standpoint, I think it was Fox all-day, no question. However, SGA's role and impact this season has been spectacular. He's arguably the NCAA tourney MVP at this point. In a different thread yesterday, people were saying SGA might be Cal's best PG at UK. With that, I think people need to pump the brakes a bit. All due respect to SGA, and the poster's and their opinions.

 

[3kidsandme]

Go back and look at their computer rankings. They were mediocre. It’s easy to look like a great team against crappy competition. We don’t play anybody until the final four. We’ll see how much of a turn around we’ve made then. If we get bounced before then then it will have been a massive choke job.

Computer rankings mean squat this time of year. We beat two teams playing some great ball right now. I use my eyes not a computer.

 

[anon_013cn8yrfncx2]

Fox quicker and no one could keep him out of the lane. Really quick guards can stop Shai. That's the biggest difference.

Both got better down the stretch. Hopefully Shai advances farther.

 

[UKChamps2012]

I am going to disagree here as well.

Shai was not remotely close to being a natural PG.

His passes were reckless, his handles were shaky and all too often he drove into traffic and for awhile forced way too many shots.

That’s not usually signs of a high IQ...

The way he has been able to self correct during the season may very well be IQ or at the least tremendous will power and determination.

He has thoroughly impressed me with his ability to continue to improve his game across all facets.

Regarding Shai's handles and reckless passes, UK was running some of the worst offense in UK history. The game at Missouri was brutal and there wasn't any offensive sets or spacing to speak of...but that's what happens when you start 5 freshmen who have no idea what their roles are and the two so called upperclassmen (Gabriel/SKJ) have very low basketball IQs. I believe it was the ESPN announcer Dakich stating in another game "I have absolutely no idea what offense Kentucky is running"! He was right and that's on Cal.

Fox had two experienced guards in Briscoe and Hawkins who knew the offense and a superstar in Monk who could light it up as good as anyone in UK history. Fox also had another 4 year player in Willis and a post presence and 1st round draft pick in Bam. Shai has Diallo and Green to work with in the backcourt! My point is Shai has to do so much more than Fox because he doesn't have no where near the supporting cast in terms of experience and talent than Fox had to work with. Also, Shai has to play 38 minutes a game for us to win and he would be even more efficient if he was able to get additional breaks throughout the game.

Shai is more of a hybrid PG/SG and Fox is a true point guard. I said earlier that I would pick Fox as my PG on last year's team since they ran the court and would pick Shai as the PG on this year's team. I just heard Cal say that Shai reviews each one of his games and confers with Cal on some of the turnovers he made so that he won't make the same mistake going forward. But to say he doesn't have signs of a high IQ because UK wasn't running no offensive sets doesn't make sense.

 

[Dream Team 13]

Shai is an excellent college player, as far as natural ability, instincts, and athleticism Fox is much farther ahead.

It will be interesting to see how SGA’s game translates to the next level.

I think quite well actually. He's smooth and can get his shot up over bugs. He's 6'6 which will certainly help him on the next level. Would you say Harden is an elite athlete? Good ball players translate regardless of how high they can jump.

 

[brianpoe]

Regarding Shai's handles and reckless passes, UK was running some of the worst offense in UK history. The game at Missouri was brutal and there wasn't any offensive sets or spacing to speak of...but that's what happens when you start 5 freshmen who have no idea what their roles are and the two so called upperclassmen (Gabriel/SKJ) have very low basketball IQs. I believe it was the ESPN announcer Dakich stating in another game "I have absolutely no idea what offense Kentucky is running"! He was right and that's on Cal.

Fox had two experienced guards in Briscoe and Hawkins who knew the offense and a superstar in Monk who could light it up as good as anyone in UK history. Fox also had another 4 year player in Willis and a post presence and 1st round draft pick in Bam. Shai has Diallo and Green to work with in the backcourt! My point is Shai has to do so much more than Fox because he doesn't have no where near the supporting cast in terms of experience and talent than Fox had to work with. Also, Shai has to play 38 minutes a game for us to win and he would be even more efficient if he was able to get additional breaks throughout the game.

Shai is more of a hybrid PG/SG and Fox is a true point guard. I said earlier that I would pick Fox as my PG on last year's team since they ran the court and would pick Shai as the PG on this year's team. I just heard Cal say that Shai reviews each one of his games and confers with Cal on some of the turnovers he made so that he won't make the same mistake going forward. But to say he doesn't have signs of a high IQ because UK wasn't running no offensive sets doesn't make sense.

I dont disagree with the offensive sets we were running earlier. However, Shai's assist to TO ratio was not good nor was his decision making.

He has absolutely turned it around. He is not a dumb player by any means but like you said not a true PG either.

He has made an incredible transformation which could directly correlate to a high IQ just as easily as to some of the bone headed plays that were made early on when most here thought the entire team had a very low bball IQ.

 

[brianpoe]

I think quite well actually. He's smooth and can get his shot up over bugs. He's 6'6 which will certainly help him on the next level. Would you say Harden is an elite athlete? Good ball players translate regardless of how high they can jump.

Where has Shai proven he can shoot over bigs? He doesnt have much lift to his shot at all?

His 3 is a set shot and his drives to the basket are silky smooth but utilizes his length to stretch out to the basket, he doesnt go up and over anyone...

Harden is an absolutely better athlete than Shai, my goodness. Harden is also a much better dribbler and one of the best shooters in the world. Not a fair comparison. (albeit Harden does not play defense)

 

[Nubb16]

Imagine what Fox would’ve been if he had cut his hair

 

[UKChamps2012]

I dont disagree with the offensive sets we were running earlier. However, Shai's assist to TO ratio was not good nor was his decision making.

He has absolutely turned it around. He is not a dumb player by any means but like you said not a true PG either.

He has made an incredible transformation which could directly correlate to a high IQ just as easily as to some of the bone headed plays that were made early on when most here thought the entire team had a very low bball IQ.

At this point in both of their careers at UK, Shai has a better TO ratio than Fox so the turnover argument wouldn't work in Fox's favor. If you look at the last 10 games for Fox and Shai, you get the following numbers:

• Shai 66 assists to 23 turnovers
• Fox 25 assists to 27 turnovers

I took the last 10 games because they take into effect the SEC and NCAA tourney games which are the games of most importance. (If you took last 15 or 20 games, same result) Just think if Shai had Monk and Willis on the wings to spread out the defense and Bam on the post for ally-oops, the assist to turnover ratio would be much higher.

 

[HoptownCat93]

People forget Fox getting sick and injured during the middle of the season really prevented the team from taking off.

Once he got back into form, there was no guarding him in the lane.

 

[Sithlyone]

I'm rolling with SGA. He has been amazing during the most difficult part of the season. During the last 5 games he has been unbelievable. Really more than that.

I posted this in this thread https://kentucky.forums.rivals.com/threads/sga-appreciation-thread.262587/#post-6765853 earlier this week. Since I put some time into this I'll repost it here since it shows just how much SGA has done recently. If you want a full breakdown you can check that thread out. Basically here are the stats for all of our pg's from the SEC tournament till the second round of the NCAA. SGA outshines them all!

 

[UKGrad93]

Regarding Shai's handles and reckless passes, UK was running some of the worst offense in UK history. The game at Missouri was brutal and there wasn't any offensive sets or spacing to speak of...but that's what happens when you start 5 freshmen who have no idea what their roles are and the two so called upperclassmen (Gabriel/SKJ) have very low basketball IQs. I believe it was the ESPN announcer Dakich stating in another game "I have absolutely no idea what offense Kentucky is running"! He was right and that's on Cal.

Fox had two experienced guards in Briscoe and Hawkins who knew the offense and a superstar in Monk who could light it up as good as anyone in UK history. Fox also had another 4 year player in Willis and a post presence and 1st round draft pick in Bam. Shai has Diallo and Green to work with in the backcourt! My point is Shai has to do so much more than Fox because he doesn't have no where near the supporting cast in terms of experience and talent than Fox had to work with. Also, Shai has to play 38 minutes a game for us to win and he would be even more efficient if he was able to get additional breaks throughout the game.

Shai is more of a hybrid PG/SG and Fox is a true point guard. I said earlier that I would pick Fox as my PG on last year's team since they ran the court and would pick Shai as the PG on this year's team. I just heard Cal say that Shai reviews each one of his games and confers with Cal on some of the turnovers he made so that he won't make the same mistake going forward. But to say he doesn't have signs of a high IQ because UK wasn't running no offensive sets doesn't make sense.

I agree that Shai is more of a combo guard. He has really developed his pg skills this season.

 

[Bobcat94]

I am very interested in seeing how Shai does against those "natural" PGs coming out this season about the same size with better 3pt%.

If he comes out of workouts still on top of all but Sexton and Young it will be a great testament to his hard work, because he was not close when the season started.

Why don't you name us some of those "natural PGs that are about Shai's size with better 3 point percentage?

 

[mbc82584]

I'm rolling with SGA. He has been amazing during the most difficult part of the season. During the last 5 games he has been unbelievable. Really more than that.

I posted this in this thread https://kentucky.forums.rivals.com/threads/sga-appreciation-thread.262587/#post-6765853 earlier this week. Since I put some time into this I'll repost it here since it shows just how much SGA has done recently. If you want a full breakdown you can check that thread out. Basically here are the stats for all of our pg's from the SEC tournament till the second round of the NCAA. SGA outshines them all!

WOW! Nicely done. SGA is a player!

 

[bigbluedon]

I am going to disagree here as well.

Shai was not remotely close to being a natural PG.

His passes were reckless, his handles were shaky and all too often he drove into traffic and for awhile forced way too many shots.

That’s not usually signs of a high IQ...

The way he has been able to self correct during the season may very well be IQ or at the least tremendous will power and determination.

He has thoroughly impressed me with his ability to continue to improve his game across all facets.

Good points Brian.. I was going to post the exact same thing. SGA passing for most of the season has been careless..Has improved last few games..He scores more because he has to. Hami cant score nor can Richards and Fox had a good group around him that could score. Fox gets my vote as he could just take over a game because so much of the time he was unguardable as the year wore on.

 

[brianpoe]

Why don't you name us some of those "natural PGs that are about Shai's size with better 3 point percentage?

Did you really think I dont know of what I am posting?

Shake Milton
6'6
44%
18 Points
5 Assists

Landry Shamet
6'4
44%
15 Points
5 Assists

Tony Carr
6'5
44%
20 Points
5 Assists

* Doncic is 6'8 as well..


Then you have these guys who are excellent PG's

Jalen Adams
6'2
44%
19 Points
5 Assists

Aaron Holiday
6'1
43%
20 Points
6 Assists

Jalen Brunson
6'3
42%
19 Points
5 Assists

Khyri Thomas, Creighton
Troy Brown, Oregon
De'Anthony, Melton USC
Trevon Duvall, Duke
Keenan Evans, Texas Tech
Jevon Carter, West Virginia
Jerome Robinson, Boston College


Shai just seems to make things happen. Some workouts with scrimmaging may tend to be more uncontrolled than actual game situations which allows for more freedom and puts athletic ability/instincts to the forefront...

How will Shai stack up against these guys who have been PG's all their lives in this type of setting?


If he decides to leave I hope he gets drafted as high as possible and is a long time All Star, i still don't see it but he's had me eating crow all season...

 

[ALL4UK]

I don’t think it’s a fair comparison. They are totally different types of players. It’s like comparing Jordan and LeBron. I think it’s a matter of taste and personal preference. They are both exceptional point guards for the teams they played on. The only way to answer this question would be to have them play in each other’s shoes...which can’t happen. I personally think they are both unbelievable players, and I am glad they both have played for our Wildcats.

 

[CatStucknWA]

I don’t think it’s a fair comparison. They are totally different types of players. It’s like comparing Jordan and LeBron. I think it’s a matter of taste and personal preference. They are both exceptional point guards for the teams they played on. The only way to answer this question would be to have them play in each other’s shoes...which can’t happen. I personally think they are both unbelievable players, and I am glad they both have played for our Wildcats.

THIS ^
well said ALL4UK!!!

 

[Dream Team 13]

Where has Shai proven he can shoot over bigs? He doesnt have much lift to his shot at all?

His 3 is a set shot and his drives to the basket are silky smooth but utilizes his length to stretch out to the basket, he doesnt go up and over anyone...

Harden is an absolutely better athlete than Shai, my goodness. Harden is also a much better dribbler and one of the best shooters in the world. Not a fair comparison. (albeit Harden does not play defense)

All I was saying is you don't have to be a Fox/Wall athlete to play in the NBA and shine. And he does get his shot up over bigs. Does drive by people when he chooses to.

I get it, you want him back enough to convince yourself he isn't going ot be a good pro. But I see nothing that suggests he is going to flop in the NBA. Nothing.

 

[EliteBlue]

Fox was unreal at the end of the season. Shai is not far behind but the speed of Fox was the best since Wall. If Fox doesn’t pick up his 2nd with 12 min left in the half against UNC, he would have led us to #9 IMO

If they don't call one of the worse "over the back" calls on a put back and a terrible offensive goaltending on another putback, Fox likely leads us to a title even with his 2nd foul.

That game was the most blatantly criminal thing I have ever watched at this level of competition.

 

[brianpoe]

All I was saying is you don't have to be a Fox/Wall athlete to play in the NBA and shine. And he does get his shot up over bigs. Does drive by people when he chooses to.

I get it, you want him back enough to convince yourself he isn't going ot be a good pro. But I see nothing that suggests he is going to flop in the NBA. Nothing.

Me disagreeing that he won’t be an All Star or even as good as Fox has nothing to do with my desire for him to stay or go.

That is a very presumptuous and odd take by you.

I also never said a player ha to be a Fox/Wall athletes play in the NBA.

So overall this post of yours is pathetically petty and based only your opinions of what you think are my beliefs which simply are not true.

I hope the kid is drafted very high and becomes a great player, that helps the program.

I simply don’t see his game translating to the league nearly as well as it has in college.

 

[MSturgeon]

It seems like Shai is better at getting to the basket and finishing, but Fox isn't clear in my mind, so I might just be misremembering his impact. I feel like Shai is a better shooter, but I seem to remember Fox hitting some clutch shots from long range as well.

Don't make me pick.

 

[Dream Team 13]

Me disagreeing that he won’t be an All Star or even as good as Fox has nothing to do with my desire for him to stay or go.

That is a very presumptuous and odd take by you.

I also never said a player ha to be a Fox/Wall athletes play in the NBA.

So overall this post of yours is pathetically petty and based only your opinions of what you think are my beliefs which simply are not true.

I hope the kid is drafted very high and becomes a great player, that helps the program.

I simply don’t see his game translating to the league nearly as well as it has in college.

Yeah OK buddy. Please tell me you can argue a point without using 'pathetically' and 'petty'? Please? Otherwise I'll be left wondering how the hell your Father allowed you to grow up to be such an ass?

Want to try again like an adult?

 

[brianpoe]

Yeah OK buddy. Please tell me you can argue a point without using 'pathetically' and 'petty'? Please? Otherwise I'll be left wondering how the hell your Father allowed you to grow up to be such an ass?

Want to try again like an adult?

You started the pathetic allegation that my opinion was based solely on my wish for SGA to not turn pro.

I have never once said that I want him to stay or go...

So fix yourself whiny ass.

You can think the kid is Michael Jordan, I dont care.

I simply stated that I believe he is a great college player whose skills may not translate as well to the pro game.

Why dont you keep the conversation on the subject, stop trying to read minds and you wont look like such a dick....?

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Loved Fox as a player, really tough kid, but by the numbers Shai is better.

On pace for as many / more points.

Better assist to turnover ratio.

Better at FTs and wayyyyyy better from 3.

Lucky to have that kid for this run!

There is something very special about SGA. He doesn't have Fox's athleticism but he is just very good at pretty much everything. He has a the patience of a guy who knows exactly what he's doing and works hard every game. Overall, I think he probably is better than Fox. In the early season I wouldn't have dreamed I'd have said that about SGA. He works, he learns, he improves...repeat.

 

[mbc82584]

You started the pathetic allegation that my opinion was based solely on my wish for SGA to not turn pro.

I have never once said that I want him to stay or go...

So fix yourself whiny ass.

You can think the kid is Michael Jordan, I dont care.

I simply stated that I believe he is a great college player whose skills may not translate as well to the pro game.

Why dont you keep the conversation on the subject, stop trying to read minds and you wont look like such a dick....?

So what NBA team do you scout for?

 

[J. Shellacque]

Is this a joke? Fox is 10X a better player than Shai.

 

[1991greywildcat]

There is something very special about SGA. He doesn't have Fox's athleticism but he is just very good at pretty much everything. He has a the patience of a guy who knows exactly what he's doing and works hard every game. Overall, I think he probably is better than Fox. In the early season I wouldn't have dreamed I'd have said that about SGA. He works, he learns, he improves...repeat.

SGA would hold his own, but idk, if Alexander can stay in front of Fox or not.

 

[1991greywildcat]

Is this a joke? Fox is 10X a better player than Shai.

This, not sure why people think that. No way this team, has that many losses with Fox running the point..

 

[BigKari]

Right now its

Wall
Fox
An. Harrison
SGA
Ulis
Knight
Bledsoe
Teague
Green
Harrow

If SGA leads us to 2 more wins he passes Harrison and Fox. 4 more and he goes straight to the top.

 

[Blue Decade]

Loved Fox as a player, really tough kid, but by the numbers Shai is better.

On pace for as many / more points.

Better assist to turnover ratio.

Better at FTs and wayyyyyy better from 3.

Lucky to have that kid for this run!

SGA will not get drafted quite as high as De'Aaron Fox did. Which will have the better NBA career remains to be seen. But Fox's speed is elite.

 

[screwduke1]

Shai is an excellent college player, as far as natural ability, instincts, and athleticism Fox is much farther ahead.

It will be interesting to see how SGA’s game translates to the next level.

I think SGA could be a very good NBA PG. He has good size, can defend and can take it to the rim pretty much whenever he wants too. Plus he has a high bball IQ. Should bode well for an NBA career, at least on paper.

Personally I don't think its fair to compare Fox and Shai. Their games are not really the same. Fox was basically Wall 2.0 and Shai is basically a taller version of Ulis.

Isn't it great we can even have debates like this though Brian?

 

[screwduke1]

Is this a joke? Fox is 10X a better player than Shai.

I don't agree with this at all. Shai right now is playing as good as any PG during the Cal era right now. That obviously includes Fox.

I think Fox was a little better too but 10x's better is ridiculous. That makes it sound like Shai is terrible and hes not.

 

[brianpoe]

So what NBA team do you scout for?

Why are people so damn stupid? (Referencing you specifically but a couple others fit this as well.)

I simply stated it is my opinion that his skills will not translate to be a great NBA player.

Most NBA point guards (in my opinion) have one of these specific qualities: uber-athleticism, natural distributor instincts, or they are a great shot creator...


Why do I have to be a scout to have an opinion?

Why do you ask such a stupid question?

Why is it that because I have a differing opinion that it must be based upon what i want Shai to decide to do with his career plans (@Dream Team 13 ) or I have to be some professional...??

Not even sure why i responded to such an ignorant question on a message board that exists based solely upon individual's opinions....

 

[UKUGA]

Better question: is Shai better than Lonzo Ball?

 

[mbc82584]

Why are people so damn stupid? (Referencing you specifically but a couple others fit this as well.)

I simply stated it is my opinion that his skills will not translate to be a great NBA player.

Most NBA point guards (in my opinion) have one of these specific qualities: uber-athleticism, natural distributor instincts, or they are a great shot creator...


Why do I have to be a scout to have an opinion?

Why do you ask such a stupid question?

Why is it that because I have a differing opinion and it must solely be based upon what i want Shai to decide to do with his career plans (@Dream Team 13 ) or I have to be some professional...??

Not even sure why i responded to such an ignorant question on a message board that exists based solely upon individual's opinions....

Why u mad bro

 

[brianpoe]

Why u mad bro

Im not, you just asked a stupid question.