I'm starting to get frustrated, too.

[kyjeff1]

I think this is spot on. And I think a lot of the sunshine pumping really has more to do w/ fear than anything else. Fear is a powerful thing. That's why you read a lot of "what, you would rather go back to BCG and the last two years of Tubby?" As if that's the only alternative. It's fear-driven more than anything.

I just don't think Cal can win a title with this model. It's not 2010 or 2015. And we're not going back. And God bless him I think he's trying to find the balance, but he created a beast that's kinda bigger than the program right now.

The Cats haven't been a 1 seed since 2015. Cal will always get these guys to improve, and in March they will almost always be better than in November/December. But I just think there's a ceiling with this model right now.

Yeah, there's a lot of sarcasm and name calling that seems unnecessary. I've gotten frustrated a few times and went to that well a few times too.

Just in the process of defending my opinions, I end up coming off like I'm angry. There's no easy way to have this kind of a discussion on a message board and keep it calm. It's almost like talking politics… almost.

But you're 100% right, there is a ceiling with this system. Since 2015, things have changed and 2020 has taken it to a new level.

In my opinion, Calipari works his tail off to make it work, but I think we're seeing him change his recruiting style, but I don't know if it's going to work. The word is out. UK is "one-and-done-U" and it's not going to change overnight. 3 and 4* guys are not going to come here and sit behind 5* guys, they're going to transfer, we've seen it already.

Hopefully he finds a way to keep players from leaving for the GL. That's not how the system was supposed to work.

20/21 was going to be Cal's best team. If Richards, IQ and EJ returned, UK would have been the gold standard for sure next year. Anyone that gets sarcastic and condescending towards me because I voice my opinions about this system eating us at this point, is, in my opinion, ignoring what’s right in front of them in their efforts to protect a guy that doesn't need to be protected.

I get that there is a large group that doesn't agree with me, but there's no need to attack me. We can talk about it without the bullsh*t.

 

[HagginHall1999]

There is a ceiling and we have seen what that ceiling is since 2015, elite eight or sweet sixteen.

This is where I disagree. I am prefacing this by saying I am not trying to start an argument, I truly am not.

But how is it that the ceiling is EE when 2017 and 2019 we lost on a buzzer beater and OT?

I just don't see how you take an EE game and call it the ceiling in either of those instances- seems short sighted. We could have easily won those games and easily lost vs ND in 2015 or NC in 2011.

Unless you have a super team (and sometimes even then it doesn't matter) the EE is a total crap shoot. You are playing in most instances one of the Top 8 teams in the country on a neutral court.

Was 1995 ceiling EE when we sported 5 JR's and a SR? What about 2005 with 3 JR's and a SR? Was John Wall and Cuz ceiling the EE?

I can admit it is tougher to win with a young team but I am not sure where the ceiling comes in. It is odd to paint it with that kind of brush.

 

[HagginHall1999]

Yeah, there's a lot of sarcasm and name calling that seems unnecessary. I've gotten frustrated a few times and went to that well a few times too.

Just in the process of defending my opinions, I end up coming off like I'm angry. There's no easy way to have this kind of a discussion on a message board and keep it calm. It's almost like talking politics… almost.

But you're 100% right, there is a ceiling with this system. Since 2015, things have changed and 2020 has taken it to a new level.

In my opinion, Calipari works his tail off to make it work, but I think we're seeing him change his recruiting style, but I don't know if it's going to work. The word is out. UK is "one-and-done-U" and it's not going to change overnight. 3 and 4* guys are not going to come here and sit behind 5* guys, they're going to transfer, we've seen it already.

Hopefully he finds a way to keep players from leaving for the GL. That's not how the system was supposed to work.

20/21 was going to be Cal's best team. If Richards, IQ and EJ returned, UK would have been the gold standard for sure next year. Anyone that gets sarcastic and condescending towards me because I voice my opinions about this system eating us at this point, is, in my opinion, ignoring what’s right in front of them in their efforts to protect a guy that doesn't need to be protected.

I get that there is a large group that doesn't agree with me, but there's no need to attack me. We can talk about it without the bullsh*t.

Jeff I agree with a lot of what you say. I only take issue with the whole Cal is pushing them out. I think he offers his opinion as to what is best for them. Doesn't lie to them. I also don't think he publicly would ever throw them under the bus no matter their decision.

There is no doubt he doesn't think EJ is ready. I also think the transfers are killing us. My stance is get more guys "like" Dontaie Allen...even a notch below. KY kids that bleed blue and groom them cus they aren't walking away from program IMO. Add them to the elite recruits and go.

Just in my hometown there is a kid that went to Iowa and now is 6th man...led Cov Cath to state title and shoots 50% from 3. Kid that is at Thomas More that took CCHS to State Finals and averaged 15 or 20 a game his Freshman year. I have no clue if either are UK fans and they are clearly two different skill sets but I guarantee the Iowa kid could contribute now. The kid who is at Thomas More....maybe by his Jr or Sr year.

Just this year we have like the 3rd best player in the state signing with Kansas...

It is just another way of looking at it.

 

[kyjeff1]

Jeff I agree with a lot of what you say. I only take issue with the whole Cal is pushing them out. I think he offers what is best for them. I also don't think he publicly would ever throw them under the bus.

There is no doubt he doesn't think EJ is ready. I also think the transfers are killing us. My stance is get more guys "like" Dontaie Allen...even a notch below. KY kids that bleed blue and groom them cus they aren't walking away from program IMO. Add them to the elite recruits and go.

I never thought Cal was pushing them out, but I did say he created this culture where kids aren't coming here for UK, they're coming here to leave after 1 or two years. It worked for a while, but it has changed and I don't know what he can do to stop it.
Nobody wants Cal to leave, but what's happening now is not what's best for UK. Parents like EJ's and Whitney's get frustrated, because they thought Cal was going to wave a magic wand and turn them into millionaires overnight. That's bullsh*t, but it's what the system created. They blame the coach instead of telling their kids to stay the course and work hard.
He has to stop this runaway train.

 

[CB3UK]

what's happening now is not what's best for UK.

This pretty succinctly says it. I dont know why supposed fans of the program argue otherwise.

You can tell me you accept things as they are and we cant change Cal's mind and we win a lot of games. OK. Thats all valid. But don't tell me this is whats best for UK or the way to get another title.

 

[FishersBlue]

This is where I disagree. I am prefacing this by saying I am not trying to start an argument, I truly am not.

But how is it that the ceiling is EE when 2017 and 2019 we lost on a buzzer beater and OT?

I just don't see how you take an EE game and call it the ceiling in either of those instances- seems short sighted. We could have easily won those games and easily lost vs ND in 2015 or NC in 2011.

Unless you have a super team (and sometimes even then it doesn't matter) the EE is a total crap shoot. You are playing in most instances one of the Top 8 teams in the country on a neutral court.

Was 1995 ceiling EE when we sported 5 JR's and a SR? What about 2005 with 3 JR's and a SR? Was John Wall and Cuz ceiling the EE?

I can admit it is tougher to win with a young team but I am not sure where the ceiling comes in. It is odd to paint it with that kind of brush.

I think this is a fair point, and you could be right. I didn't think the 2019 team was a legit title contender, and yes I know they were an OT loss away from a FF. The 2017 was different. i thought it was of the 3 best teams in the country and those 3 teams (UNC, UK, Gonzaga) were head and shoulders above the rest. So that was only 3-4 years ago.

And I thought Cal was trying to build next year into that type of balanced team before the mass exodus.

The 2017 team had 3 frosh studs and a 2-3 returning guys who had some talent and solid experience. And they didn't rely on a true center or interior shot blocker. That's Cal's ultimate model.

 

[shaudyshaud]

Maybe I'm simple minded but if it came down to playing ball in a foreign country, I'd just hang the sneakers up. Hagans never mentioned dreams of playing overseas. He wants to play in the NBA as would any other American kid. I understand the reality is they won't all make it though.

I also read a story a couple years ago about Goodwin, Aaron Harrison, and Dakari Johnson while playing overseas admitted that their best basketball days were behind them and stuck in Lexington.

Of course every kid that plays basketball dream is to make the NBA but a lot of them end of making pretty good money overseas also .

If you had the basketball talent these guys have no you wouldn’t hang up your sneakers if you still had an option of playing overseas.

 

[KyFaninNC]

This is where I disagree. I am prefacing this by saying I am not trying to start an argument, I truly am not.

But how is it that the ceiling is EE when 2017 and 2019 we lost on a buzzer beater and OT?

I just don't see how you take an EE game and call it the ceiling in either of those instances- seems short sighted. We could have easily won those games and easily lost vs ND in 2015 or NC in 2011.

Unless you have a super team (and sometimes even then it doesn't matter) the EE is a total crap shoot. You are playing in most instances one of the Top 8 teams in the country on a neutral court.

Was 1995 ceiling EE when we sported 5 JR's and a SR? What about 2005 with 3 JR's and a SR? Was John Wall and Cuz ceiling the EE?

I can admit it is tougher to win with a young team but I am not sure where the ceiling comes in. It is odd to paint it with that kind of brush.

Because we haven’t been to a FF since 2015, recruiting dropped off, and can’t seem to keep any experience. IMO, we win those games with better experience. So history dictates my view on that.

 

[shaudyshaud]

Bama and Clemson football lose some players to other schools. Duke doesn't get every kid they want. NOBODY does. Good grief. The irrationality here is astounding.

Exactly . Losing a player to BYU is the least of my concern . It’s not like we lost to BYU for a top 3 recruit .

Losing a bunch of guys to the second round and a possibly undrafted player is the bigger concern right now.

 

[HagginHall1999]

I think this is a fair point, and you could be right. I didn't think the 2019 team was a legit title contender, and yes I know they were an OT loss away from a FF. The 2017 was different. i thought it was of the 3 best teams in the country and those 3 teams (UNC, UK, Gonzaga) were head and shoulders above the rest. So that was only 3-4 years ago.

And I thought Cal was trying to build next year into that type of balanced team before the mass exodus.

The 2017 team had 3 frosh studs and a 2-3 returning guys who had some talent and solid experience. And they didn't rely on a true center or interior shot blocker. That's Cal's ultimate model.

Yeah I was with you in 2019 at beginning of season but by mid season we were rolling. Injuries to Travis and PJ were a killer...same could be said for Duke though.

 

[KyFaninNC]

Jeff I agree with a lot of what you say. I only take issue with the whole Cal is pushing them out. I think he offers his opinion as to what is best for them. Doesn't lie to them. I also don't think he publicly would ever throw them under the bus no matter their decision.

There is no doubt he doesn't think EJ is ready. I also think the transfers are killing us. My stance is get more guys "like" Dontaie Allen...even a notch below. KY kids that bleed blue and groom them cus they aren't walking away from program IMO. Add them to the elite recruits and go.

Just in my hometown there is a kid that went to Iowa and now is 6th man...led Cov Cath to state title and shoots 50% from 3. Kid that is at Thomas More that took CCHS to State Finals and averaged 15 or 20 a game his Freshman year. I have no clue if either are UK fans and they are clearly two different skill sets but I guarantee the Iowa kid could contribute now. The kid who is at Thomas More....maybe by his Jr or Sr year.

Just this year we have like the 3rd best player in the state signing with Kansas...

It is just another way of looking at it.

I just think that without experience it is near impossible to win a natty. Duke had Barrett, Zion, and Reddish, the top three 5 star recruits and could not even make a FF with those studs. The numbers, stats and odds are against you. So, till Cal can find a way to stop losing 5/7 players every year, we won’t make another FF.

The two comments Cal used, and I wonder now if he wishes he had not said, Players first, Draft night is biggest night in UK history, have bit him in the ass, and I wonder if he can fix it.

 

[ChaiseyD]

What in the heck is going on, kentucky just lost a player to BYU. We are going to be awful next year. I'm almost to the point that I want next season canceled!!!!!!!

Stay away from.the ledge bro ,its going to b alright !!

 

[docholiday51]

I just think that without experience it is near impossible to win a natty. Duke had Barrett, Zion, and Reddish, the top three 5 star recruits and could not even make a FF with those studs. The numbers, stats and odds are against you. So, till Cal can find a way to stop losing 5/7 players every year, we won’t make another FF.

The two comments Cal used, and I wonder now if he wishes he had not said, Players first, Draft night is biggest night in UK history, have bit him in the ass, and I wonder if he can fix it.

You bring up a good point,while there is nothing to do in the sports world I wish someone would ask Cal 'what are 5 things you wish you hadn't said"? Even if he didn't answer the question his response would be the best thing on t v right now.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

This pretty succinctly says it. I dont know why supposed fans of the program argue otherwise.

You can tell me you accept things as they are and we cant change Cal's mind and we win a lot of games. OK. Thats all valid. But don't tell me this is whats best for UK or the way to get another title.

That is one of my primary complaints with Cal. He takes "player first" far too far. He really does view program success as an obvious trickle down from player success. The problem is, player success is a dubious barometer when they leave long before they should. Draft day isn't a celebration to me, its a miserable reminder of what could have been. The program needs to be more important than the player but the young people of today simply feel entitled and Cal makes that worse, not better. We have become UCal and that's our own faults. I don't think I'd expect a 61 year old tiger to change his stripes.

 

[LowCountryCat]

Seeding doesn’t matter

Did it matter in
2011
2014
2018
2019

 

[MakinMusic]

I truly believe he was caught off guard by the EJ and JJ departures

I don’t think he was caught off guard. He knows what these kids want and has a conversation with them. After 10 years at Kentucky with the same conversations, he knows where it can and often does go. It’s the nature of the beast. Every single one of the players today, at any school, are trying to reach the next level. He expects them all to leave early and he knows some will leave earlier than they should every season.

 

[CB3UK]

That is one of my primary complaints with Cal. He takes "player first" far too far. He really does view program success as an obvious trickle down from player success. The problem is, player success is a dubious barometer when they leave long before they should. Draft day isn't a celebration to me, its a miserable reminder of what could have been. The program needs to be more important than the player but the young people of today simply feel entitled and Cal makes that worse, not better. We have become UCal and that's our own faults. I don't think I'd expect a 61 year old tiger to change his stripes.

I personally don't view a guy simply going, getting drafted and then being kicked down to the G league a year or two later as successful. Some, that may happen regardless. But there have been a lot who left at least a year earlier than needed be to bolster the skillset to have staying power in the league.

Not everyone is Anthony Davis. We, the fans, understand that. You want a barometer for success. Nazr Mohammed is who you need to be selling folks on. Not Wall or Davis or Towns....because 99% of our guys arent them.

 

[know1]

You bring up a good point,while there is nothing to do in the sports world I wish someone would ask Cal 'what are 5 things you wish you hadn't said"? Even if he didn't answer the question his response would be the best thing on t v right now.

That, and saying we were the gold standard. I wish we were, though.

 

[rhstoess]

Yall are crazy. Our team has been ultra-competitive every single season. Winning the championship is so much more luck-based than skill-based that being in the hunt over a period of time with that much longevity, what more do you want. If you keep begging for something more, youre not going to get it. No one has had better tournament success based on wins since cal has been at uk. Being upset at this reality is actually insane.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Yall are crazy. Our team has been ultra-competitive every single season. Winning the championship is so much more luck-based than skill-based that being in the hunt over a period of time with that much longevity, what more do you want. If you keep begging for something more, youre not going to get it. No one has had better tournament success based on wins since cal has been at uk. Being upset at this reality is actually insane.

Our season success is great and I appreciate it. However, its the final 3 rounds of the tournament that most of us are interested in and our success there isn't what it should be with the talent we have. That is a factor of youth and inexperience. You can either understand that or not.

 

[KyFaninNC]

Our season success is great and I appreciate it. However, its the final 3 rounds of the tournament that most of us are interested in and our success there isn't what it should be with the talent we have. That is a factor of youth and inexperience. You can either understand that or not.

Rack

 

[Backer cutter]

I haven’t liked the way the players leave early from day one of Cals time here. That doesn’t mean I don’t think he can coach. His results obviously show that he can. Doesn’t mean anyone has to like the system he has created. It doesn’t have to be either/or for/against Cal. It’s the system most of us that are called haters don’t like, not Cal. I don’t think he likes it now either, but he did create it. If he can change it for the better, I’ll be the first to give him due credit. Hopefully he can.

 

[kyjeff1]

Yall are crazy. Our team has been ultra-competitive every single season. Winning the championship is so much more luck-based than skill-based that being in the hunt over a period of time with that much longevity, what more do you want. If you keep begging for something more, youre not going to get it. No one has had better tournament success based on wins since cal has been at uk. Being upset at this reality is actually insane.

Yes, we get it, nobody has as much tournament success as Cal since 2010. But those tires are losing traction. Most of those wins occurred in his first 5 years. But since 2015, something changed and it is rapidly going downhill. Guys are leaving that are nowhere near ready to leave and then Cal is left scrambling to plug holes, which causes the problem we talk about every year "we were 1 player short again". We're always going to be one player short, we're always going to be young and the refs are always going to stick it to us.
If Cal doesn’t stop this runaway train, we're going to be in for a lot more Evansville's and bad tournament losses. Freshmen and sophomores choke when the pressure gets to be too much and we have seen that too often the last 10 years. It was okay when we had Wall, Davis, Townes, Knight, Jones, MKG and Fox, those guys could hide the choking, but if guys like EJ, IQ, Richards and Hagans are going to leave JUST because they put in their 2 years here (3 for Richards) and that's as long as they planned on being in college, then we can forget about final fours and titles.

Those 4 players I listed are guys that you don't see leave other programs after 2 or 3 years. We could have a huge advantage on everyone else, but instead, we're at a disadvantage.

I can't believe we even had to offer a scholarship to a guy like Haarms.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Yes, we get it, nobody has as much tournament success as Cal since 2010. But those tires are losing traction. Most of those wins occurred in his first 5 years. But since 2015, something changed and it is rapidly going downhill. Guys are leaving that are nowhere near ready to leave and then Cal is left scrambling to plug holes, which causes the problem we talk about every year "we were 1 player short again". We're always going to be one player short, we're always going to be young and the refs are always going to stick it to us.
If Cal doesn’t stop this runaway train, we're going to be in for a lot more Evansville's and bad tournament losses. Freshmen and sophomores choke when the pressure gets to be too much and we have seen that too often the last 10 years. It was okay when we had Wall, Davis, Townes, Knight, Jones, MKG and Fox, those guys could hide the choking, but if guys like EJ, IQ, Richards and Hagans are going to leave JUST because they put in their 2 years here (3 for Richards) and that's as long as they planned on being in college, then we can forget about final fours and titles.

Those 4 players I listed are guys that you don't see leave other programs after 2 or 3 years. We could have a huge advantage on everyone else, but instead, we're at a disadvantage.

I can't believe we even had to offer a scholarship to a guy like Haarms.

I'll go back to '13 so I can give Cal credit for '14. We had a terrible team in '13. We would have made the tournament if not for Nerlens but we wouldn't have lasted long. We can't count this year so for the 7 years starting with '13 we missed the tourny once, didn't make the elite 8 twice, lost in the elite 8 twice and made the final 4 twice and made the final game once, all with no titles. Our record in the final 3 rounds over that span is 3-4. Take away '14 and our record in the final 3 rounds is 1-3, making only 1 final four. That isn't up to standards with teams loaded with future pros.

 

[LmdCat]

Yeah, there's a lot of sarcasm and name calling that seems unnecessary. I've gotten frustrated a few times and went to that well a few times too.

Just in the process of defending my opinions, I end up coming off like I'm angry. There's no easy way to have this kind of a discussion on a message board and keep it calm. It's almost like talking politics… almost.

But you're 100% right, there is a ceiling with this system. Since 2015, things have changed and 2020 has taken it to a new level.

In my opinion, Calipari works his tail off to make it work, but I think we're seeing him change his recruiting style, but I don't know if it's going to work. The word is out. UK is "one-and-done-U" and it's not going to change overnight. 3 and 4* guys are not going to come here and sit behind 5* guys, they're going to transfer, we've seen it already.

Hopefully he finds a way to keep players from leaving for the GL. That's not how the system was supposed to work.

20/21 was going to be Cal's best team. If Richards, IQ and EJ returned, UK would have been the gold standard for sure next year. Anyone that gets sarcastic and condescending towards me because I voice my opinions about this system eating us at this point, is, in my opinion, ignoring what’s right in front of them in their efforts to protect a guy that doesn't need to be protected.

I get that there is a large group that doesn't agree with me, but there's no need to attack me. We can talk about it without the bullsh*t.

You are correct. Cal isn't going to be able to get very many 4s and lower level 5s to come to UK to be recruited over by top level 5s.

 

[LmdCat]

I haven’t liked the way the players leave early from day one of Cals time here. That doesn’t mean I don’t think he can coach. His results obviously show that he can. Doesn’t mean anyone has to like the system he has created. It doesn’t have to be either/or for/against Cal. It’s the system most of us that are called haters don’t like, not Cal. I don’t think he likes it now either, but he did create it. If he can change it for the better, I’ll be the first to give him due credit. Hopefully he can.

No one is saying that Cal can't coach, but you will never hear someone say that Cal's players play well beyond their talent level.

 

[Hoskins91]

we lost to evansville............... then lost every player except 1..... .then lost a recruit to byu.


if you cant see the massive red flags that something is badly wrong....... you probably didnt see them with tubby or bcg until it was too late either....

We were 26-6, won the SEC, and we were gonna be a 2-3 seed in the tournament. We have a few years where we barely make the tournament or miss it completely, then this comparison makes sense. You’d figure people would be used to this by now.

 

[Kentuckiddy]

Excellent comparison. I just feel like is a cheap shot even comparing Cal to end of Tubby tenure or BCG.

Cals front half was about as good as you can do in modern college basketball less the 2013 NIT.

EE, FF, TITLE, NIT, RU
vs
FF, 32, EE,16, EE

(Covid)

The whole thing with Cal and I know it is "if's and buts"...win the Title in '14 or '15 and everyone is singing a different tune IMO.

He didn’t. We’re not.

 

[kl40504]

You could say I'm a bit of a sunshine pumper. Probably can tell from my posts to likes ratio. I don't think I have once bashed Cal. Even when I'm really upset, say after a loss or missing out on a kid we think we really need. I always bite my tongue and just say Cal has a plan. (which I still believe) And I'm quick to call out JFCats, Kentucky Kiddy, Zaytoven, etc. Still love ya'll, we are all rooting for the same cause at the end of the day. But I'm starting to get where you guys and others are coming from.

Let me say this before I get into it. I love Cal. But I'm a little unsure of the current direction. It is also possible to be upset with the coach and at the same time not want anyone else to be the coach. This is where I am.

I just don't see how UK can get back to a final four so damn young. So damn talented, but when you get to that Elite 8 match-up, you really need dudes that have been there before. The Fab 5 almost did it with primarily freshman. Our cats almost did it in 2014. But it just takes so much for it to happen. How many times did Miller, Jones, and Lamb come through in 2012 when we needed them?

I think Cal himself senses this too. That is why I think he's going hard after players like Haarms, whom he normally wouldn't go after. I'm happy he brought a long Mintz and Toppin for experience alone and I do believe he will go after another big man for next year. Maybe a guy we haven't heard of yet. Just can't afford to miss this time.

John Calipari has done so much for Kentucky. The way he's changed the brand alone will do wonders for recruiting after he is gone. Think of little kids now who are growing up and will see all these superstars in the NBA that went through Lexington before they got there...

We already know how next year will go. They'll struggle early, lose to a couple no names, and be playing well in March. But will it be enough to get to the promised land? Just don't feel as confident as I usually do. Being quarantined has hampered my sunshine pumping abilities I guess.

I am starting to get excited.

 

[Hoskins91]

I’m gonna disagree here. Getting the SEC player of the year and a first team all SEC big man to return when you’re short an experienced guard and a solid big man is exactly the difference between a bad team and a great one in this case.

If the freshman are bad, those two aren’t that level of difference makers. I wanted both of them back, but the accolades they both received this year were in large part a result of how weak the talent pool this year was. Quickley was as proven as Askew is as far as being an actual pg at this level. It’d still be nice to have him to have a proven shooter/scorer, but it is definitely a potential “square peg in a round hole” situation. The level Richards will be missed depends on how far down the list of backup plans we have to go. He’s hardly irreplaceable.

 

[Hoskins91]

No one is saying that Cal can't coach, but you will never hear someone say that Cal's players play well beyond their talent level.

That’s a weird thing to think because we’ve definitely had guys outplay their expectations

 

[UKWildcatT]

You are correct. Cal isn't going to be able to get very many 4s and lower level 5s to come to UK to be recruited over by top level 5s.

Someone posted this yesterday: Cal needs to stop building classes and start building teams.

 

[Hoskins91]

Our season success is great and I appreciate it. However, its the final 3 rounds of the tournament that most of us are interested in and our success there isn't what it should be with the talent we have. That is a factor of youth and inexperience. You can either understand that or not.

Disagree. 15, 17, and 19 are the only years where elite eight or bust expectations were anywhere close to appropriate. Maybe this year, but we’ll never know.

13: You said yourself, even with Noel, that team wasn’t winning anything.

14: That team made it farther than it should have and wasn’t at full strength in the title game.

16: Making a run this year would have required ridiculous performances from Ulis and Murray for 6 straight games. That’s not realistic.

18: Again, what were you expecting with the circumstances?

Potential, versus what they actually realistically were going to be are often two completely different things. That’s including if the people who it is actually reasonable to have expected back came back. Which is a much smaller number than you probably believe.

 

[kl40504]

No one is saying that Cal can't coach, but you will never hear someone say that Cal's players play well beyond their talent level.

What about Shai Gilgeous-Alexander. He played well beyond expectations.

 

[kl40504]

I never thought Cal was pushing them out, but I did say he created this culture where kids aren't coming here for UK, they're coming here to leave after 1 or two years. It worked for a while, but it has changed and I don't know what he can do to stop it.
Nobody wants Cal to leave, but what's happening now is not what's best for UK. Parents like EJ's and Whitney's get frustrated, because they thought Cal was going to wave a magic wand and turn them into millionaires overnight. That's bullsh*t, but it's what the system created. They blame the coach instead of telling their kids to stay the course and work hard.
He has to stop this runaway train.

Cal needs to stop this runaway train of winning the SEC championship, winning more games than almost any coach in the last ten years. beating our biggest rival Louisville 90% of the time, and getting the number one recruiting class again this year. Please stop Cal. I am so tired of winning.

 

[kl40504]

No one is saying that Cal can't coach, but you will never hear someone say that Cal's players play well beyond their talent level.

You must have been in a cave the past 10 years or maybe you should have come out of you mommy's basement once in awhile.

 

[know1]

Someone posted this yesterday: Cal needs to stop building classes and start building teams.

He needs to start building a program even more than a class or team.

 

[KyFaninNC]

That’s a weird thing to think because we’ve definitely had guys outplay their expectations

I can only think of two, Hero and SGA. I submit we have had far more that played under, Whitney, Diallo, Skal, Vanderbilt, EJ, Gabriel. I could go on and on. But you get the drift.

 

[KyFaninNC]

The sooner Cal stops all the NBA hype to these kids, the better the team gets for UK. I just don’t see that happening, tho.

I think Cal considers his legacy not by how many titles he has, but by how many players he had drafted by the NBA.

 

[kybassfan]

Yeah, there's a lot of sarcasm and name calling that seems unnecessary. I've gotten frustrated a few times and went to that well a few times too.

Just in the process of defending my opinions, I end up coming off like I'm angry. There's no easy way to have this kind of a discussion on a message board and keep it calm. It's almost like talking politics… almost.

But you're 100% right, there is a ceiling with this system. Since 2015, things have changed and 2020 has taken it to a new level.

In my opinion, Calipari works his tail off to make it work, but I think we're seeing him change his recruiting style, but I don't know if it's going to work. The word is out. UK is "one-and-done-U" and it's not going to change overnight. 3 and 4* guys are not going to come here and sit behind 5* guys, they're going to transfer, we've seen it already.

Hopefully he finds a way to keep players from leaving for the GL. That's not how the system was supposed to work.

20/21 was going to be Cal's best team. If Richards, IQ and EJ returned, UK would have been the gold standard for sure next year. Anyone that gets sarcastic and condescending towards me because I voice my opinions about this system eating us at this point, is, in my opinion, ignoring what’s right in front of them in their efforts to protect a guy that doesn't need to be protected.

I get that there is a large group that doesn't agree with me, but there's no need to attack me. We can talk about it without the bullsh*t.

Except you can never back up what you say. You pitch a fit when some disagrees with you. Fact of the matter is that Cal has us at the door nearly every year. It’s taken freakishly bad luck to keep us out of the final four. The declaration that the system is incapable of succeeding is simply unsupportable yet time and time again you are here spewing this nonsense. Then you demean anyone that refutes you. The bullshit starts with you every time.