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I’m choosing to support Cal, and here’s why

How is kneeling being disruptive? Does that prevent the anthem from being played or others from honoring it as they see fit?

Also, so you are saying everyone at the games is sitting quietly during the course of the game? Or are they cheering and being disruptive and trying to disrupt the opposing team? So, by a reasonable person standard, which the law requires, sporting events by nature are meant to disrupt.

Sure seem odd you can provide no evidence to support your claims. Like any case law or anything...
 
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First let me say that, although I am far from the most prolific poster on this board, I think most would recognize me as someone who has been very critical of Cal’s performance since 2015, and especially over the past 3 seasons. l’m still not over Wisconsin, or for that matter, losing to Kevin Ollie. I’m not OK with the Sharpe deal. I’m not ok with great players being misused, undeveloped, and transferring out. I’m not ok with recruiting the likes of Khalil Whitney and Devin Askew. I’m not ok with chumps like EJ Montgomery and Ashton Hagans thinking they are NBA players. I’m not ok with injuries happening or being aggravated at “pro day”, or with draft night supposedly being this program’s apex. I’m not OK with “I haven’t seen him”. I’m not ok with the inability to play a zone, with 20-foot 2-pointers, or with Cal “forgetting” that someone was on the bench. I’m not ok with losing the wins lead or the 3-point streak. I’m not ok with the bloated contract. I’m not ok with batting .250 against ranked teams. I’m damn sure not ok with Evansville, 9-16, St. Peter’s, or missing the tournament.

Having said all this… the only way we can truly judge Calipari is within a historical context. And from 1939, when the first NCAA tournament was held, to Billy G’s last season in 2009, here are the standards of our program:

.762 win percentage
Averaged a final four every 5.38 years
Averaged a title every 10 years

Now here are Cal’s numbers:

.776 win percentage
Averaged a final four every 3 years when you throw out the year there was no tourney
1 title in 12 seasons (again throwing out 2020 when there was no tourney)

In other words Cal is well ahead of UK’s historical standards in the first two categories, and technically still has 8 seasons to win another title before he would fall below average. If he wins another one in the next 2-4 years he would be well above average in that category as well.

We can lament the current trajectory (read: downward spiral) of the program all we want. But the numbers don’t lie: John Calipari has not run UK basketball into the ground. Even after several dreadful seasons, he’s still above average, and not by national standards, but by UK standards. And that is no small feat. Can he reach the top of the mountain again? I don’t know. But I believe he deserves my support in trying… if for no other reason than simple math.
Agree with most of your posts and with your 1st paragraph here.

Without the contract buyout provision, I would think that CCC, notwithstanding his accomplishments up to the 2016 season, would have been called into the AD’s office after the 2020-21 season and given a “pep” talk. But COW holds all the cards and he knows it. Since 2015, UK has had a couple of good regular season records but little postseason success. Seven years of average results for a $9mil coach does not add up. If Alabama football had the same run, Nick would have been canned.

For me the most frustrating things, even more than his record, is his behavior. It infuriates me and brings a bad light on a historically prominent program. He is very dismissive towards the UK press, the sideline reporters, and fans only coming out and pumping his chest when we win and sulking like a child after a loss.

I live in Georgia and wear a UK hat or shirt a majority of the time. People here really like Stoop's image but will give you a thumbs down when you ask about COW.
 
Winning 3 games to take Kentucky form not making to the tournament at all to making it, doesn’t change anything, cal is still vastly underperforming at Kentucky and still makes the same damn mistakes every game, Kentucky wins in spite of him, these last 3 games does not excuse the past 3 years and Kentucky being 4 years without a tournament win
At $9 million per year I think winning games is his job anyway. To me it isn't something exciting or special if those wins just barely get us in the NCAA tourney door. So many UK fans are now perfectly fine with the program limping into the post season with a flawed team and very flawed coach.
If we continue to lower the bar, we accept mediocrity.
 
I think he sucks here's why:
He used questionable recruiting tactics to acquire great teams that built his career.
What he did with all that talent is disappointing
His offense is ugly and not fun to watch
His pre-game and in game play calling and adjustments seems to be non existent
His teams seem to lack basic fundamentals
He runs players into the ground which leads to way to many injuries
His teams do not hit free throws or get open shots
He seems very arrogant and never adapts, learns or listens
Comes off as an A$$ when giving pressers and yelling at players
 
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At $9 million per year I think winning games is his job anyway. To me it isn't something exciting or special if those wins just barely get us in the NCAA tourney door. So many UK fans are now perfectly fine with the program limping into the post season with a flawed team and very flawed coach.
If we continue to lower the bar, we accept mediocrity.
Facts, the other night when they won, you had peopel on here saying oh why complaint when you won. Because Kentucky played terrible in crunch time, and let a shit team hang around
 
And they kneeled right after the insurrection.

I don’t agree with their kneeling but I understand it.
What insurrection are you talking about? The Jan 6, 2020 event? Factually, that was a demonstration or a riot. Even the hack Jan 6 committee has admitted this.
Just because CNN still uses the word "insurrection" doesn't mean it is accurate.
 
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"They're 18 years old," he told reporters. "They're learning. These kids are good kids. They've got good hearts. This political time, probably not a real good time to do it."


Again, he throws the players under the bus when he green lighted the kneeling.

And I note they didn't kneel at Rupp.
 
First let me say that, although I am far from the most prolific poster on this board, I think most would recognize me as someone who has been very critical of Cal’s performance since 2015, and especially over the past 3 seasons. l’m still not over Wisconsin, or for that matter, losing to Kevin Ollie. I’m not OK with the Sharpe deal. I’m not ok with great players being misused, undeveloped, and transferring out. I’m not ok with recruiting the likes of Khalil Whitney and Devin Askew. I’m not ok with chumps like EJ Montgomery and Ashton Hagans thinking they are NBA players. I’m not ok with injuries happening or being aggravated at “pro day”, or with draft night supposedly being this program’s apex. I’m not OK with “I haven’t seen him”. I’m not ok with the inability to play a zone, with 20-foot 2-pointers, or with Cal “forgetting” that someone was on the bench. I’m not ok with losing the wins lead or the 3-point streak. I’m not ok with the bloated contract. I’m not ok with batting .250 against ranked teams. I’m damn sure not ok with Evansville, 9-16, St. Peter’s, or missing the tournament.

Having said all this… the only way we can truly judge Calipari is within a historical context. And from 1939, when the first NCAA tournament was held, to Billy G’s last season in 2009, here are the standards of our program:

.762 win percentage
Averaged a final four every 5.38 years
Averaged a title every 10 years

Now here are Cal’s numbers:

.776 win percentage
Averaged a final four every 3 years when you throw out the year there was no tourney
1 title in 12 seasons (again throwing out 2020 when there was no tourney)

In other words Cal is well ahead of UK’s historical standards in the first two categories, and technically still has 8 seasons to win another title before he would fall below average. If he wins another one in the next 2-4 years he would be well above average in that category as well.

We can lament the current trajectory (read: downward spiral) of the program all we want. But the numbers don’t lie: John Calipari has not run UK basketball into the ground. Even after several dreadful seasons, he’s still above average, and not by national standards, but by UK standards. And that is no small feat. Can he reach the top of the mountain again? I don’t know. But I believe he deserves my support in trying… if for no other reason than simple math.

Hell of a post...
 
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As Mark Twain once famously said

“Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”
 
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Respect yours too and you may well be right. I definitely wouldn’t say I have much confidence in him at this point.
I appreciate your desire to support Cal, Wonky ... but if we're honest, I think if BBN could see a course change by Cal that was meaningful to get this program back on the right footing, the entire sentiment toward Cal would change, IMO. At least it would with me, and I've been a pretty big critic of his OAD debacle for years. Support for coaching/staff should be effortless and organic. Trying to find ways to support him these days is a full-time job filled with lies, half-truths and excuses we're expected to endure ... it takes too much work that's hard to enjoy. That said, hats off to you for trying to find a way to support him. I don't envy the work that's required on your part and sorry I can't find a way to try any more. I look forward to a needed coaching change.
 
I'm fine with judging Cal from a "historical perspective" after he leaves. I prefer to judge Cal currently based on a forecast of future performance calculated on recent events. The trend is not flattering, and a prediction based on coaches in their winter years is even less so. You can both appreciate what Cal has done in the past and see a need to part ways to improve the probability that Kentucky is in the conversation for a national championship. Like many UK fans, I don't see Cal winning another championship. His last best shot may be next year, but his outdated play style will probably cripple that talented team too.
 
I'm fine with judging Cal from a "historical perspective" after he leaves. I prefer to judge Cal currently based on a forecast of future performance calculated on recent events. The trend is not flattering, and a prediction based on coaches in their winter years is even less so. You can both appreciate what Cal has done in the past and see a need to part ways to improve the probability that Kentucky is in the conversation for a national championship. Like many UK fans, I don't see Cal winning another championship. His last best shot may be next year, but his outdated play style will probably cripple that talented team too.

Most skewering him now didn’t heap praise on him when he was killing it, so they can’t be taken seriously.
 
I'm fine with judging Cal from a "historical perspective" after he leaves. I prefer to judge Cal currently based on a forecast of future performance calculated on recent events. The trend is not flattering, and a prediction based on coaches in their winter years is even less so. You can both appreciate what Cal has done in the past and see a need to part ways to improve the probability that Kentucky is in the conversation for a national championship. Like many UK fans, I don't see Cal winning another championship. His last best shot may be next year, but his outdated play style will probably cripple that talented team too.
Great post
 
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That mans wife loves him and his daughters defend him every step of the way. I don't care if we ever win another game. That's the type of Man I want coaching my team!
 
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I appreciate your desire to support Cal, Wonky ... but if we're honest, I think if BBN could see a course change by Cal that was meaningful to get this program back on the right footing, the entire sentiment toward Cal would change, IMO. At least it would with me, and I've been a pretty big critic of his OAD debacle for years. Support for coaching/staff should be effortless and organic. Trying to find ways to support him these days is a full-time job filled with lies, half-truths and excuses we're expected to endure ... it takes too much work that's hard to enjoy. That said, hats off to you for trying to find a way to support him. I don't envy the work that's required on your part and sorry I can't find a way to try any more. I look forward to a needed coaching change.
One and done - no championships won
 
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Farmer is a convict. Wonky left your team and joined the team of sanity and reason. Tough pill for the blind haterade crowd.
You're not on the team of sanity and reason though. This is your 12th account. You get them banned because you only show up to attack people and call them drunks, babies, children, etc. I look forward to your next account that you will stalk me on like the homosexual stalker you are.
 
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When you start complaining because he let his players exercise their first amendment rights, your argument losses any credibility it might have had.
The white kids have a first amendment right to hold up signs saying "white power" Or kneel in support of the KKK. Because they have a first amendment right, doesn't mean it's the proper thing to do.
 
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That’s kind of my point. What if Cal’s tenure looked like this:

Final four 2012
Title 2016
Runner up 2019
Final four 2022

Do you think fans would be calling for his head right now? I don’t. And I totally get that we’re on a very bad trajectory and have been for some time. I’m just saying… it’s like Cal gets no credit for UNBELIEVABLY OVERACHIEVING in his first 5 seasons, because he has unbelievably underachieved since then. It’s almost like people view those first 5 years as what’s expected. And given historical context that is simply not true.
Literally nobody is expecting a repeat of the 5 year run. We are expecting more than losing the all time wins lead, the all time tournament lead, a losing record against the top 25, a 7 year final four drought with top classes and transfers yearly, losing to saint peter's as a 2 seed. I could go on and on.
 
We started the season ranked 4th in the county and a final four favorite. With the national POY. We have 9 losses in late February. That is not the Kentucky standard.
 
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Literally nobody is expecting a repeat of the 5 year run. We are expecting more than losing the all time wins lead, the all time tournament lead, a losing record against the top 25, a 7 year final four drought with top classes and transfers yearly, losing to saint peter's as a 2 seed. I could go on and on.

How do you stalk an anonymous message board poster? More validation that you aren’t on the side of sanity.

Homosexual? Hahaha! Gibberish. What a weird pivot.
 
How do you stalk an anonymous message board poster? More validation that you aren’t on the side of sanity.

Homosexual? Hahaha! Gibberish. What a weird pivot.
Your last user name was literally a direct shot at me. You think I'm a dead poster who died almost 4 years ago. Get a grip please. Dude runs all over this board stalking certain posters. You did the same on Baller Cal before they banned that account...
 
Interesting...

The First Amendment only protects your speech from government censorship. It applies to federal, state, and local government actors. This is a broad category that includes not only lawmakers and elected officials, but also public schools and universities, courts, and police officers. It does not include private citizens, businesses, and organizations. This means that:

A private school can suspend students for criticizing a school policy.
A private business can fire an employee for expressing political views on the job.
A private media company can refuse to publish or broadcast opinions it disagrees with.
UK isn't private. Neither is UF.

www.freedomforum.org
Is Your Speech Protected by the First Amendment? - Freedom Forum
4 steps to know what speech is protected and when.
www.freedomforum.org www.freedomforum.org

Also, SCOTUS ruled on this in 1969 in Tinker v. Des Moines, 393 U.S. 503 (1969).

Facts and Case Summary - Tinker v. Des Moines
Decision Date: February 24, 1969 Background At a public school in Des Moines, Iowa, students planned to wear black armbands at school as a silent protest against the Vietnam War. When the principal became aware of the plan, he warned the students that they would be suspended if they wore the...
www.uscourts.gov www.uscourts.gov
Chat GPT sourced?
 
You're last user name was literally a direct shot at me. You think I'm a dead poster who died almost 4 years ago. Get a grip please. Dude runs all over this board stalking certain posters. You did the same on Baller Cal before they banned that account...
You’re clearly woke and like to play the victim. Nobody gives a crap about you but they do find it hilarious that a Cal hater looked at the facts and decided to be reasonable.
 
Literally nobody is expecting a repeat of the 5 year run. We are expecting more than losing the all time wins lead, the all time tournament lead, a losing record against the top 25, a 7 year final four drought with top classes and transfers yearly, losing to saint peter's as a 2 seed. I could go on and on.

You misinterpreted my post. I didn’t mean anybody was expecting a repeat. What I’m saying is because that 5 year run was so much better than even we as UK fans expect (and we expect a lot), Cal’s recent lack of success seems like a more precipitous nosedive than it actually is. In reality, it is simply the law of averages.

I shouldn’t have to repeat this, but nobody is more sickened with the current state of the program than I am. Do I think Cal will - or even can - right the ship? Not necessarily. But I’m also not ready to concede that a man with an ego as big as Cal’s doesn’t have one last gasp in him.
 
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You misinterpreted my post. I didn’t mean anybody was expecting a repeat. What I’m saying is because that 5 year run was so much better than even we as UK fans expect (and we expect a lot), Cal’s recent lack of success seems like a more precipitous nosedive than it actually is. In reality, it is simply the law of averages.

I shouldn’t have to repeat this, but nobody is more sickened with the current state of the program than I am. Do I think Cal will - or even can - right the ship? Not necessarily. But I’m also not ready to concede that a man with an ego as big as Cal’s doesn’t have one last gasp in him.
I can respect your line of thinking. But at some point you have to just realize. He's done. His last big gasp is next year with his super class IMO.
 
I can respect your line of thinking. But at some point you have to just realize. He's done. His last big gasp is next year with his super class IMO.

He makes very valid points though I would say the trend leaves little promise to expect #9 as of now. The thing is though, in my mind if he were to get #9 all is forgotten, forgiven, etc.
 
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