How many NBA players has Coach Cal produced while at UK?

[tomrain]

His recruiting prowess isn't held against him. He's heralded for it by most. But it does highlight how poor of an actual basketball coach he is. Just as Tubbys poor recruiting showed that he was a pretty good "coach." Tubby and Cal are two sides of the same coin. Both were overall disappointments because of their lack of well roundedness as the head of the program.

Exactly!!! Shame we couldnt have had Cal recruit them and Tubby coach them.

 

[TJWalkersBurner]

So what if it is? If both things are true, then we should be able to say both things.

He deserves credit for being an incredible recruiter. Hell, he had by far the greatest recruiting run in the history of the sport during his first half of his time here. He’s arguably the sport’s greatest recruiter ever. Kudos for that, Cal.

But he also should’ve accomplished more on the floor with the insane talent adavantage that we’ve had over the last 15 years.

Recruiting is part of the job. When you only say “we should have done X with all of this talent,” you change the standard from just winning at a high level - which is the only standard we’ve ever held any UK coach to - into “he should have won even MORE than that!” It’s a shit argument. Just judge him by the same standard every other coach on the planet/in history has been judged by: how much did they win?

 

[medmalmike]

I couldn't care less! How many championships does he have is the only question I care about.

 

[TJWalkersBurner]

You're wrong. When you read those comments, they are holding his coaching against him. Not his recruiting.

Reread the argument. It’s easy to understand.

 

[UK90]

Recruiting is part of the job.

No shit, really? Wow, then that changes everything!

Of course recruiting is part of the job. And he deserves heaps of praise for how he's done in in that part ...as folks in this thread have acknowledged. But deserving praise in one area doesn't make him immune from critique in others. That's not "holding his recruiting against him", it's just nuanced analysis.

It seems that your apparent position is that we should only look at the end results ...without any analysis of underlying causes, reasons, strengths, weaknesses, etc. I must say, that strikes me as one of the most simple-headed dumb arguments I've seen put forth on this board.

 

[know1]

Reread the argument. It’s easy to understand.

Apparently for you it's not.

 

[TJWalkersBurner]

No shit, really? Wow, then that changes everything!

Of course recruiting is part of the job. And he deserves heaps of praise for how he's done in in that part ...as folks in this thread have acknowledged. But deserving praise in one area doesn't make him immune from critique in others. That's not "holding his recruiting against him", it's just nuanced analysis.

It seems that your apparent position is that we should only look at the end results ...without any analysis of underlying causes, reasons, strengths, weaknesses, etc. I must say, that strikes me as one of the most simple-headed dumb arguments I've seen put forth on this board.

Again…the vast majority of the comments about his recruiting in this thread have been about how much of a failure he is as a coach from an accomplishment standpoint given the talent he’s had. Saying he’s earned “heaps of praise” in this thread….just lol

You don’t have to lie about my position when I’ve stated it pretty clearly. Sure, talk about underlying causes, strengths, weaknesses, whatever. But when it comes time to actually judge his resume and tenure, don’t try to saddle his results with The Talent He’s Had™️. Just judge the results. The titles, the wins, the winning percentage…just measure them against what the program’s standards are.

If you think “judge the results” is simple-headed and dumb…somehow I think I can live with that

 

[TJWalkersBurner]

Apparently for you it's not.

No, it’s very easy. You’re the one struggling with it.

 

[katwest]

How many NCAA championships has he won at UK??

This is a debate that will go on forever, Cal is kind of in the category of who's done less with more. You can't put that many guys in the pro's and have just have one NCAA championship without talking about this. Dean Smith put bunches of players in the pros and only won 2 titles, and one was literally give to them. To have that many pro's and have as many early exits, and playing in the NIT and not making the tournament at all is why this comes up. Kentucky should have at least 3 titles more than we have with Cal at the helm

 

[Phil_The_Music]

I disagree. When you read “talent squanderer” and “can you believe he only has 1 title with all those draft picks?!?!”, his recruiting is absolutely being held against him.

Just argue that one title in ~15 years isn’t good enough at Kentucky. Tacking on “he should have more given all the talent he’s had” is holding his recruiting against him.

No. If he was a crappy recruiter in addition to being a poor coach he would have been fired long ago. Even people like myself who don't like him will acknowledge he's the best in the business at bringing in high ranking recruits. If he wasn't a good recruiter, he wouldn't have lasted 3 seasons at UK and he would be considered a Billy G level failure, which is a step lower than being a bad coach who can recruit. Just because people point out that he does less with more doesn't mean they are holding that skill against him, they are using it to demonstrate how poor he is in other areas.

 

[TJWalkersBurner]

Kentucky should have at least 3 titles more than we have with Cal at the helm

This is exactly what im talking about. Saying Cal should have had at least four titles in his time at UK? That’s saying he should have won a title basically every 3-4 years since he’s been here. That is just an outrageous standard that no coach in this era could live up to, but it gets brought up with Calipari because of how well he’s recruited.

 

[TJWalkersBurner]

Just because people point out that he does less with more doesn't mean they are holding that skill against him, they are using it to demonstrate how poor he is in other areas.

Okay. I just don’t think you can reconcile the two halves of this sentence when it comes to judging his tenure (ie, when people start saying things like “he should have won X number of titles here with all of the talent,” etc.) But we can agree to disagree. Thank you for the discussion.

 

[RunninRichie]

This is exactly what im talking about. Saying Cal should have had at least four titles in his time at UK? That’s saying he should have won a title basically every 3-4 years since he’s been here. That is just an outrageous standard that no coach in this era could live up to, but it gets brought up with Calipari because of how well he’s recruited.

2015 and 2011 should have been title years.

 

[katwest]

This is exactly what im talking about. Saying Cal should have had at least four titles in his time at UK? That’s saying he should have won a title basically every 3-4 years since he’s been here. That is just an outrageous standard that no coach in this era could live up to, but it gets brought up with Calipari because of how well he’s recruited.

Jay Wright won more titles at Villanova than Cal has at Kentucky with a lot less talent. This criticism comes with the territory when you make 11 million a year and get beat in the first or second round of the NCAA while coaching at Kentucky, you better win big, or you will feel it. Nick Saban has won every 3 or 4 years at Bama in football because he is a great coach and has recruited well. That's part of it when you are the coach at a school like Kentucky or Alabama in football.

 

[TJWalkersBurner]

Jay Wright won more titles at Villanova than Cal has at Kentucky with a lot less talent. This criticism comes with the territory when you make 11 million a year and get beat in the first or second round of the NCAA while coaching at Kentucky, you better win big, or you will feel it. Nick Saban has won every 3 or 4 years at Bama in football because he is a great coach and has recruited well. That's part of it when you are the coach at a school like Kentucky or Alabama in football.

Okay. There’s a lot in this post I agree with, so I’ll leave it at that. I think we have a consensus that cal hasn’t been living up to the UK standard and either needs to change that or get out. Thanks for the discussion.

 

[docholiday51]

2015 and 2011 should have been title years.

X
Cal should have a minimum of 4 titles here. He has massively underperformed and failed to deliver. There is no way to sugar coat, defend or deflect his record

 

[crestcat]

Just as we are relieved Dean under performed we are urinated that Cal has. Wish Wooden had.

 

[DreadLox]

Pretty easy to send guys to the NBA when they would have gone anyway. Yet Cal sleeps well at night thinking he's changed so many lives. I'm not sure if it's narcissism, ignorance or both.

You could maybe make the argument that a couple of players got there sooner because of him. But then again, you could also argue that some players would have been better off not going as quickly.

I understand winning a title is hard even with top talent, which is why I think 3 titles is a reasonable number to expect. However, with all of that talent, we should have never lost the wins lead, not made the tourney, and certainly never have had a losing season. I could go on. Bottom line, he's a marketer and nothing else. But I give him credit for fooling a lot of people, including the hall of fame.

Anyone could argue anything.

 

[ukjenning44]

X
Cal should have a minimum of 4 titles here. He has massively underperformed and failed to deliver. There is no way to sugar coat, defend or deflect his record

If he was a decent in game coach who could make any type of adjustments during the game, he would have a bare minimum of 3 titles at UK.
He is honestly the worst in game coach I have seen at any level in my entire life.

 

[THE_HOOK]

The only statistic that he truly cares about.

 

[zannmann]

Most of those guys could have went straight from High School if they had been allowed too.

 

[know1]

If he was a decent in game coach who could make any type of adjustments during the game, he would have a bare minimum of 3 titles at UK.
He is honestly the worst in game coach I have seen at any level in my entire life.

Plus, he doesn't even game plan for the games.

 

[natchezrule]

Has anyone kept up with the number of former Cats who have gone on to the NBA during Coach Cal's time at UK?

How many titles ?

 

[Phil_The_Music]

Anyone could argue anything.

Yes but some arguments are more valid than others.