I don't whine and blame the refs when we lose. I like fans that say "we are UK" and let those other fans blame the refs. UK fans didn't use to do that. There is a "poor me" mentality that thinks everybody is against them. That is just paranoia and makes everybody think we are ignorant.
How do you think we can get this mess straightened out with the officials that call our games?
- Thread starter wildcatdonf
- Start date
Officiating can easily decide games and take it out of the players hands. Anyone with experience competing knows this, but its easier to say yeah you should’ve just hit more shots.
Ofcourse you can always be better until you are perfect.
A blown shot clock violation In the final moments of the game, totally unjustifiable calls to mess with the flow of the game alla Higgins etc can absolutely decide games, tak8ng the game out of the players control.
It’s just reality.
Ofcourse you can always be better until you are perfect.
A blown shot clock violation In the final moments of the game, totally unjustifiable calls to mess with the flow of the game alla Higgins etc can absolutely decide games, tak8ng the game out of the players control.
It’s just reality.
Totally disagree. One ref especially HAS been biased against UK to the point of taking us out of games early and dictating the momentum and even outcome of three of our team's UNCAA tournaments.
Why does a person have to be a whining crybaby if they call it like they see it. Why do people get away with murder in real life, in business, in politics? Because people like you say suck it up, just play harder.
If the rules are NOT THE SAME and/or NOT APPLIED FAIRLY then real men stand up for what they believe in and tell it like it is. How you can't look at what's been happening with college bball and refereeing and see there is something blatantly wrong and call it like it is, I don't know.
Seems you're either a troll or just don't think it through to me.
Refs of college games are under unbelievable scrutiny. Cameras galore, NCAA supervisory refs reviewing calls, stands full of fans with instant replay screens, national TV with millions of viewers with DVRs, and well-known loud-mouth coaches reporting questionable calls to their conferences. It would seem to me that a ref who deliberately makes a bad call under those conditions would need motivation that far exceeds dislike for a coach and/or a school. Refs that make bad calls are penalized by the NCAA and don't get to call tournament games. And, at some point too many bad calls will get them fired. Since every ref misses calls and makes bad calls while trying to be correct, it would seem to me that a ref would have to be a loon to deliberately add to that total and thus endanger his/her career unless a powerful inducement existed. So, IMHO, a crooked ref is very unlikely to deliberately make a bad call due to a grudge. But, a crooked ref could likely be bought if the payoff was adequate. This belief is the main reason I tune out the constant blaming of refs "because they hate Cal" that seems to come up during and after every game
Don’t feel sorry for Don. He’s the most respected poster on this board. You’re a loser.
The Wildcats are a lot like the Yankees.
When you win that much unless you love the Wildcats people tend to pull against you and for the underdog. I expect refs do the same thing. When there is close call or something like a block/ charge the refs have a perfect opportunity to make a call against UK just because they are sick of UK winning so much.
When you win that much unless you love the Wildcats people tend to pull against you and for the underdog. I expect refs do the same thing. When there is close call or something like a block/ charge the refs have a perfect opportunity to make a call against UK just because they are sick of UK winning so much.
In anything.. You can't let a group of people think they can do whatever they want without any reprocussions. If a child thinks they can do whatever they want, that's what they'll do. If a feminist thinks she can punch a dude in the face, because society says safe, she'll do it until some guy lays her out.
There needs to be some form of check and balances and as far as I can tell, there isn't much that gets in an official's way.
.. Unless you turn your back on a UNC player..
There needs to be some form of check and balances and as far as I can tell, there isn't much that gets in an official's way.
.. Unless you turn your back on a UNC player..
Higgins should have been reprimanded last year, and pulled from games. But because it's Kentucky the bigger story was a handful of fans who mocked his business.
Had the NCAA looked into his bullshit.. It might have sent a message to other refs.
Had the NCAA looked into his bullshit.. It might have sent a message to other refs.
I'm definitely not a troll and I've thought it through for sure. I think you sincerely believe that statement If rules are NOT THE SAME...NOT APPLIED FAIRLY and if that were true I'd agree with your conclusion. I categorically do not agree with that colossal IF. I have watched or listened to every UK game since 1948 and have been beyond upset by many calls. Now people are asking me to believe there is some giant conspiracy against UK and I simply don't buy it. There appear to be more people on here that support your conspiracy theory but I am not one of them and I will not be bullied out of what I truly believe. Every game that we have lost I can point out innumerable things we did wrong or inadequately. And yes, if it fits your agenda you can point out wrong or missed calls in every one of those games that contributed to our loss. But I defy you to show me incontrovertible evidence of this giant conspiracy. And don't tell me things like 'everybody can see'.
Read my posts properly and then maybe I'll read yours all the way through.
There is ONE ref that I have said has cheated us. Three times. Plenty of video proof. If you don't believe me after watching those games, with ALL your years of basketball knowledge and experience, then I don't know what to say.
I'm younger than you, first game I saw was the 78 championship. There have been times where I thought we were cheated but knew better. This time I KNOW Higgins has cheated us, there's just way too much proof. Even just watch the highlight video and you'll see.
As far as the general overall 'everyone is against us' theme, its a harder argument for me to buy in. But I tell you, its getting easier with every scandal the UNCAA overlooks for other schools!
You hit the nail on the head with your last sentence.
Question. For all the posters here that think the refs are against UK. What reason do you think this is? What has UK, or Cal done to generate the anger that would make refs want us to lose games? This is not a flame, but I am really curious as to why fans think this is.
KyFaninNC,
I don’t know about motives, but there’s plenty of evidence that Higgins does not call UK games well. Here’s a thread with more: https://kentucky.forums.rivals.com/threads/higgins-missed-calls-thread-2005-2017.232127/
With Luckie, at this point I don’t think he’s against a particular school, I think it’s his M.O. See this for more: https://kentucky.forums.rivals.com/threads/jamie-luckie-and-kentucky.263353/
However, it disturbs me that he says Cal’s behavior is “not normal”, that he realizes he can be the difference between a team losing by 20 and not 40, that he dictates how a game is to be played and not the players, that he acknowledges how hard it is for shooters to score in his games, that he mirrors calls—if he calls something on one end of the floor, he’s now looking to call it on the other end . . . see the video in the link to watch him say these things.
I don’t try to figure out motives or even “go there” on a personal level because I can’t be the judge of such things. But I can say that Higgins, Luckie, Sirmons, Ayers and Kimble do not call our games well. There is plenty of proof of that.
I don’t know about motives, but there’s plenty of evidence that Higgins does not call UK games well. Here’s a thread with more: https://kentucky.forums.rivals.com/threads/higgins-missed-calls-thread-2005-2017.232127/
With Luckie, at this point I don’t think he’s against a particular school, I think it’s his M.O. See this for more: https://kentucky.forums.rivals.com/threads/jamie-luckie-and-kentucky.263353/
However, it disturbs me that he says Cal’s behavior is “not normal”, that he realizes he can be the difference between a team losing by 20 and not 40, that he dictates how a game is to be played and not the players, that he acknowledges how hard it is for shooters to score in his games, that he mirrors calls—if he calls something on one end of the floor, he’s now looking to call it on the other end . . . see the video in the link to watch him say these things.
I don’t try to figure out motives or even “go there” on a personal level because I can’t be the judge of such things. But I can say that Higgins, Luckie, Sirmons, Ayers and Kimble do not call our games well. There is plenty of proof of that.
The only way UK wins another title under Cal is to have a team that is so dominant that even the crooked refs can't get into their way...ala 2012.
I hear ya. Not disagreeing I am just curious why this is. There is a reason for everything that happens in this universe. Everything has a cause and effect. If there is an obvious bias against Cal or UK, then there is a reason. Is it Cal, or is it UK?
Does this constitute your incontrovertible evidence? This is extremely weak. Now we're down to 1 referee and 3 games. I assume you mean Higgins and in particular the season ending game with NC last year. That was a particularly painful loss for me and Higgins did a very poor job in the first half. But was fine in the 2nd half and we had a 5 point lead with under 5 to go. Our loss in that game had 0 to do with any referee. We threw away a game we should have won. Blaming that loss on Higgins is pure whining and bs. We are UK we do not make weak excuses.
I don’t know. In those linked threads, we explore the history. There is a history with Bob Huggins speaking out against Higgins (2010 vs Duke during the Butler injury, using him as an example of needed reforms, calling out Higgins, Luckie and Kimble for the 35-2 free throw travesty this year vs Kansas) and Cal was quite outspoken last year after UNC. Cal and Huggins are the best of friends.
I don’t know if it’s style or region, but It is a rare day when a team from Kansas loses if Higgins is on the whistle, but Oklahoma almost never wins. Same for Sirmons. Wisconsin has never lost a Higgins-officiated NCAA Tournament game since at least 2011. The SEC is 2-7 in the Tournament since 2011 when Higgins is on the whistle and has not won an Elite Eight or higher.
Well respected members of the media even acknowledge there is referee disparity of some sort. But the root of it all, I don’t know. I do know that those with certain patterns toward a team or coach should not be allowed to call their games, for the integrity of the sport.
——
As the OP asks, “what do we do?”
I think we continue to speak the truth, show the facts, and try to get people on board who have a loud voice and see things for what they are.
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Then Barnhart needs to talking to some people about this. If there is proof, and it can be proved with video, Mitch needs to put the heat on somebody.
Until the refs are held accountable nothing is changing. They don't have to answer to anyone. Make them have to be interviewed by the media, let coaches express their opinions respectfully of how games are called, etc. Otherwise, same old thing.
Because Cal is confident, very blunt and borderline arrogant. People don't like that, for whatever reason. People also do not like the one and done. It's okay for Duke but not for us. Just the way it is. UK is falsely accused of being a "racist southern" school. Speaking along the lines of Rupp being falsely portrayed as a racist. We as UK fans know that's BS. Other people just believe what they're told, plain and simple. It's absolutely amazing to me that people in this country cannot think for themselves and let the media affect their views and opinions. It's called "conditioning" and it goes on in media circles every day and has been for decades. Just like when Chris Webber never mentioned any debatable calls that went against us, yet pointed out all the ones that favored us. There are also very limited replays when we get a bad whistle. That's a form of "conditioning". Basically, if you tell or show people something enough, they'll eventually believe it. Sad but very true. Call me a tinfoil hat wearing mf'er all you want. It's the truth.
Nope, its not. Not when there is video evidence in all three games of completely made up or ignored calls. We were in all three games IN SPITE of Higgins. Without him we win. Momentum changing, motivation draining calls.
The no call at the end of the half. The phantom call seconds after we intercept a bad pass and head the other way with a chance to make a run.
The UNCAA went into the locker room to tell Higgins he was being too obvious, that doesn't make you wonder?! That's the only reason the second half wasn't quite as bad.
I don't care what you say, I've seen the videos and know what I saw. I call it the way I see it and I'd venture to guess that most UK fans agree with me.
Funny how its not racist to deprive mostly African American athletes from their scholarship value of receiving an education by having a no show class about African American studies.
Hmmmm.
Oh, it most definitely is. Throwing dirt on UNCheat is not their goal, though. Matter of fact, it's the exact opposite. Thus, the media doesn't "hit on it".
You're exactly right, my friend. Amazing some people cannot see this. Mind boggling.
Someone assigned those referees to work our games. The question is “why”? Of all the ones you could have chosen, why them, given the history?
Here’s a Higgins quote from
https://www.desmoinesregister.com/s...e-me-quit-ncaa-tournament-official/100070710/
after some very unfortunate events last year, “‘. . . but I’m not going to let a few fans – quite a few fans, actually – from one place make me quit.’ . . Higgins was back at it, working the Gonzaga-South Carolina in the Final Four last Saturday. ‘It sent a strong message that 'Hey, we believe in you,'’ Higgins said. ‘’There’s a reason why you’re here – you’re one of the best guys.' One of the guys from NCAA said no way in () would we let anyone take you off that game. That gave me a boost of confidence. . . They asked me if I was OK. I said I was fine . . . .’”
So being rewarded with the Final Four last year was a message that the powers-that-be weren’t going to let anyone take him off any games last year, and the referee of the year award was likely to send the same message.
This year, though, the Marshall game had so many controversies that it garnered lots of media attention. So when the College of Charleston lost to Auburn and the refs missed the correct free throw shooter, no one could look the other way. The stakes were too high. Too many people were paying attention to let it go. That’s a little progress in the right direction.
That’s why we need to keep speaking up for what’s right and fair.
Here’s a Higgins quote from
https://www.desmoinesregister.com/s...e-me-quit-ncaa-tournament-official/100070710/
after some very unfortunate events last year, “‘. . . but I’m not going to let a few fans – quite a few fans, actually – from one place make me quit.’ . . Higgins was back at it, working the Gonzaga-South Carolina in the Final Four last Saturday. ‘It sent a strong message that 'Hey, we believe in you,'’ Higgins said. ‘’There’s a reason why you’re here – you’re one of the best guys.' One of the guys from NCAA said no way in () would we let anyone take you off that game. That gave me a boost of confidence. . . They asked me if I was OK. I said I was fine . . . .’”
So being rewarded with the Final Four last year was a message that the powers-that-be weren’t going to let anyone take him off any games last year, and the referee of the year award was likely to send the same message.
This year, though, the Marshall game had so many controversies that it garnered lots of media attention. So when the College of Charleston lost to Auburn and the refs missed the correct free throw shooter, no one could look the other way. The stakes were too high. Too many people were paying attention to let it go. That’s a little progress in the right direction.
That’s why we need to keep speaking up for what’s right and fair.
Doesn't matter. He cost us two or three potential titles. Day late and a dollar short, IMO.
Agree we can’t change 2005, 2011, 2015 and 2017. There are too many “what ifs” from a Higgins-officiated game. What if there had been an outcry after 2011? What might have happened in 2015? Or 2017?
But just maybe our voice is beginning to be heard. We must keep it up where we see inconsistencies and speak out for what’s right or it will keep happening.
Sorry, I understand where you're coming from. It's just that titles are hard to win. We've only won three in my lifetime.
Couldn't get more high profile than the UCONN game where he called that foul near the baseline when it was obvious NO-ONE from UK even touched the guy! All our games he cheated us on have been high profile. I get what you're saying, just pointing out that the reason something is being done is because its NOT UK.
Just like when DV called us racist for wanting Tubby gone for mediocre results but says nothing when he gets fired elsewhere for the same thing.
Just like the media saying UK fans expectations are too unrealistic and then say it would be an embarrassment to lose to K State in one of the most competitive years of college bball that I've seen.
We are held to a different standard, different rules and different expectations.
Its criminal in my book. Those kids were cheated out of a major life accomplishment, much less all of us out of boasting about an undefeated season. I mean how can you not go to the replay on shot clock violations that aren't called on one team but are on us?
Here’s an example of someone with a loud microphone being able to speak up and make a difference: http://www.foxnews.com/entertainmen...nce-call-during-nashville-predators-game.html
Singer Carrie Underwood’s husband’s team, the Nashville Predators, had a bad call against them last night that cost them a win in a high stakes game. She and others, like Kiefer Sutherland, were outspoken on social media and and raised awareness on this issue and made headlines today.
Like I said in a previous post, I applaud ex-player Rex Chapman for being vocal on this issue after the UNC game and not letting up to this day. I know a Coach gets reprimanded for speaking out and media companies can get sued over the actions of others, but hopefully in the future, we’ll have more ex-players and those in pro media who can be a loud voice and make a difference. I think because so much attention was given to the Higgins situation last year, the powers-that-be knew they couldn’t keep promoting him to the next rounds this year, in light of the mistakes and controversies. Speaking up does make a difference.
Singer Carrie Underwood’s husband’s team, the Nashville Predators, had a bad call against them last night that cost them a win in a high stakes game. She and others, like Kiefer Sutherland, were outspoken on social media and and raised awareness on this issue and made headlines today.
Like I said in a previous post, I applaud ex-player Rex Chapman for being vocal on this issue after the UNC game and not letting up to this day. I know a Coach gets reprimanded for speaking out and media companies can get sued over the actions of others, but hopefully in the future, we’ll have more ex-players and those in pro media who can be a loud voice and make a difference. I think because so much attention was given to the Higgins situation last year, the powers-that-be knew they couldn’t keep promoting him to the next rounds this year, in light of the mistakes and controversies. Speaking up does make a difference.
Interesting article about how the NBA is trying to tackle the referee issue: http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23089756/nba-referee-relations-spotlight-nba
If players had not been outspoken, they would not be making progress. The collegiate game is much more complicated, with leagues reprimanding coaches for simply speaking truth. Can an AD file any sort of complaint when egregious calls or no-calls are consistently made by the same person?
Who can speak up for what’s right to help the NCAA make changes for the better? Sports media? Celebrity fans? Former coaches? Former players?
If players had not been outspoken, they would not be making progress. The collegiate game is much more complicated, with leagues reprimanding coaches for simply speaking truth. Can an AD file any sort of complaint when egregious calls or no-calls are consistently made by the same person?
Who can speak up for what’s right to help the NCAA make changes for the better? Sports media? Celebrity fans? Former coaches? Former players?
There’s been several incidents during the NBA Playoffs. Here’s a couple articles:
John Wall: http://thesportsdaily.com/2018/04/1...ver-questionable-calls-that-went-against-him/
Some of the Pacers spoke out against some calls vs. the Cavaliers. The NBA admits the refs missed some crucial calls:
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...g-final-block-nba-says-last-two-minute-report
It’s a shame that in the NCAA, a coach might face a reprimand if he speaks out or that a player is prohibited from saying anything. Referees are human and make mistakes, but it’s only right to hold them accountable. I agree with Coach Huggins that referees should be able to answer some media questions (especially the ones he singled out vs. Kansas: John Higgins, Jamie Luckie and Keith Kimble. Hmm, notice any patterns there?). Trying to reform transparency would go a long way in the NCAA game. Rarely will the NCAA comment on a blown call, but if they did so, it might help the fan base to trust them just a little. And in the case of an official repeatedly missing calls with the same particular teams, they should remove them from calling that team's games to avoid a negative appearance or perceived injustice. That would help a lot!
John Wall: http://thesportsdaily.com/2018/04/1...ver-questionable-calls-that-went-against-him/
Some of the Pacers spoke out against some calls vs. the Cavaliers. The NBA admits the refs missed some crucial calls:
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...g-final-block-nba-says-last-two-minute-report
It’s a shame that in the NCAA, a coach might face a reprimand if he speaks out or that a player is prohibited from saying anything. Referees are human and make mistakes, but it’s only right to hold them accountable. I agree with Coach Huggins that referees should be able to answer some media questions (especially the ones he singled out vs. Kansas: John Higgins, Jamie Luckie and Keith Kimble. Hmm, notice any patterns there?). Trying to reform transparency would go a long way in the NCAA game. Rarely will the NCAA comment on a blown call, but if they did so, it might help the fan base to trust them just a little. And in the case of an official repeatedly missing calls with the same particular teams, they should remove them from calling that team's games to avoid a negative appearance or perceived injustice. That would help a lot!
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