Glavine and Maddux already HOFers. Smoltz and Chipper will be, too. Bobby Cox HOF manager. Throughout that decade the Braves had good talent everywhere and, evidently, 3 HOF pitchers in their prime. How in the hell did they only win one title?
How did the Braves only win one title in the 90s?
- Thread starter gamecockcat
- Start date
Because Atlanta franchises can't close the deal. We have terrible fan support, Bobby was routinely out coached in the post season and Mark Wohlers.
To echo Catlanta, cox was routinely out coached and made some terrible decisions.
The one that sticks out to me was putting Charlie Liebrandt in game 6 to pitch to the heart of the Twins order. Kirby Puckett hits a walk off home run. Just an awful decision.
The one that sticks out to me was putting Charlie Liebrandt in game 6 to pitch to the heart of the Twins order. Kirby Puckett hits a walk off home run. Just an awful decision.
Off the top of my head:
1991: Lonnie Smith cost them the title by not scoring from second on a base hit when he could have easily done so.
1992: Toronto was just a better team.
1996: Leyritz's HR was a game changer. All the mo' went NY's way after that.
1997: Ran into a red hot Livan Hernandez.
1998: Ran into a red hot Kevin Brown.
1999: Yanks were head and shoulders better team.
Add in there that Smoltz was the only real power arm between the big three. Maddux and Glavine were finesse pitchers and were, on a given night, easier to knock around if things weren't going perfectly for them.
And, Bobby Cox sucked.
1991: Lonnie Smith cost them the title by not scoring from second on a base hit when he could have easily done so.
1992: Toronto was just a better team.
1996: Leyritz's HR was a game changer. All the mo' went NY's way after that.
1997: Ran into a red hot Livan Hernandez.
1998: Ran into a red hot Kevin Brown.
1999: Yanks were head and shoulders better team.
Add in there that Smoltz was the only real power arm between the big three. Maddux and Glavine were finesse pitchers and were, on a given night, easier to knock around if things weren't going perfectly for them.
And, Bobby Cox sucked.
I've talked about this topic many times. This doesn't mean Atlanta WOULD have won more WS titles, but I think it would have been more likely. It is a rant as much about the playoff setup vs the regular season as anything.
Teams that have great regular seasons in MLB usually do so because of depth. The Braves had Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, and others...usually solid 4th/5th starters. Whereas some teams could count on wins from their top start almost every time, and their second most of the times, they typically would get shaky further into the rotation. The Braves threw a lot of good pitchers at you every day, but they never had that one crazy good over powering guy.
The MLB playoffs always have way too many days off. In a 7 game series, you'll often see the #1 pitcher pitch games 1, 4, and 7 if necessary. That is just not how the whole regular season is built. I have always thought the playoffs should be played on consecutive days (with a possible travel day if the teams are far apart) - this would allow for better use of depth and things.
Perhaps I'm in the minority on that issue, and some would rather see just the "stars", but I think the regular season is a marathon based on depth, managing, adjustments, etc, and the post season is based on who has a dominant #1 starter.
Teams that have great regular seasons in MLB usually do so because of depth. The Braves had Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, and others...usually solid 4th/5th starters. Whereas some teams could count on wins from their top start almost every time, and their second most of the times, they typically would get shaky further into the rotation. The Braves threw a lot of good pitchers at you every day, but they never had that one crazy good over powering guy.
The MLB playoffs always have way too many days off. In a 7 game series, you'll often see the #1 pitcher pitch games 1, 4, and 7 if necessary. That is just not how the whole regular season is built. I have always thought the playoffs should be played on consecutive days (with a possible travel day if the teams are far apart) - this would allow for better use of depth and things.
Perhaps I'm in the minority on that issue, and some would rather see just the "stars", but I think the regular season is a marathon based on depth, managing, adjustments, etc, and the post season is based on who has a dominant #1 starter.
Real simple answer to this:
1. Fastball/Hardball pitching is needed for the playoffs. Weather is usually colder which means the guys throwing junk (Glavine/Maddux) are not going to have as much movement on their curve/changeup/etc.
2. Braves didn't have much of a consistent bullpen and especially didn't have a guy throwing consistent gas.
3. Read 1 and 2, Fastball pitchers are needed for playoff/world series wins.
That is it, end of story
1. Fastball/Hardball pitching is needed for the playoffs. Weather is usually colder which means the guys throwing junk (Glavine/Maddux) are not going to have as much movement on their curve/changeup/etc.
2. Braves didn't have much of a consistent bullpen and especially didn't have a guy throwing consistent gas.
3. Read 1 and 2, Fastball pitchers are needed for playoff/world series wins.
That is it, end of story
BlueKel, I'd counter that the postseason isn't setup that much different at all from the regular season. They generally play back to back days with the only breaks coming for a travel day. Now, if one team sweeps a series 4-0 and is waiting on their opponent to finish out a 7 game series then of course one team is going to be well rested. It's not that there's too many days off, it's that teams are more willing to throw their best pitchers on shorter rest. Maybe that backfired against the Braves in that they were deeper and less likely to throw Maddux, Glavine, or Smoltz on short rest.
And you'd be wrong. Most 5th starters are left off the playoff roster. 4th starters often go to the pen as the long man or emergency starter. Overall, pitching staffs are used much, much, much differently in postseason than regular season.
You guys are wrong as usual.
The Braves hitters never show up in the playoffs. Never.
Maddux's ERA was 2.81 in the playoffs, but his record was just 11-13.
Glavine had a 3.30 ERA in the playoffs but had a 14-16 record.
Look at the WS they did win. They won behind a Glavine one-hitter with a score of 1-0.
They just suck at hitting good pitching. Always have.
The Braves hitters never show up in the playoffs. Never.
Maddux's ERA was 2.81 in the playoffs, but his record was just 11-13.
Glavine had a 3.30 ERA in the playoffs but had a 14-16 record.
Look at the WS they did win. They won behind a Glavine one-hitter with a score of 1-0.
They just suck at hitting good pitching. Always have.
Oh definitely the pitching staffs are used much differently. I even said as much at the end of my post that the Braves' depth in pitching probably hurt them over other teams because they weren't as likely to throw Maddux, Glavine, or Smoltz on short rest as other teams were to throw their best two or three on short rest.
What I meant by postseason not being setup that much differently was that pretty much the only off days are travel days. Not like the NBA where they'll play one game then take two days off before game two. In fact, in the 96 World Series the first 5 games were played on consecutive days.
Wow.
Just for fun....it was 55 and 78 degrees when Maddux went 0-2 in the 89 playoffs.
It was 68 when he won game 2 in 93. It was 50 when he lost game 6.
It was 55 when he shut out the Yanks in 96. It was 57 when he lost 3-2 in the same series.
It was 51 with 24mph winds when he beat Kerry Wood in 98.
He won and lost others at varying temps.
In other words. Your post is b.s. as I am sure most knew when they read it.
