How Are The Other Teams Doing It?

[Random UK Fan]

Reading a lot of back and forth on “Cal is the problem, The OAD system is the problem, freshman-heavy team is the problem, NIL/parity is the problem” etc.

But ultimately, how are we seeing a couple of blue/new bloods making it to final fours and/or winning championships the last few years with lesser talent, lower-ranked recruiting classes, etc? Instead of what is UK/Cal doing wrong, my question is what are the other teams doing right, in your opinion?

 

[LXWildcat]

Reading a lot of back and forth on “Cal is the problem, The OAD system is the problem, freshman-heavy team is the problem, NIL/parity is the problem”.

Bit ultimately, how are we seeing a couple of blue/new bloods making it to final fours and/or winning championships the last few years with lesser talent, lower-ranked recruiting classes, etc? Instead of what is UK/Cal doing wrong, my question is what are the other teams doing right?

Not sure honestly, a lot of people will say it’s because Cal cannot coach. I don’t think that’s ultimately the reason why Kentucky can’t do it. I think before the season the game had passed Cal by and teams were playing a new style. Cal finally has bought into that style with this team. So let’s see if Kentucky can do it with the new style of play

 

[UKNothinButNet]

Duh, they aren't starting off the season with a brand-new team full of FRESHMEN players every year, for 10+ years straight.

 

[WeWant9]

I think game planning and in game adjustments are/have been the biggest weaknesses.

 

[UKortho]

Said this earlier today-

If KY loses this Saturday- and they shouldn’t- then yes, season is over. I believe they have at least 4 more losses before the SECT- IF they don’t have any more stinkers. That will be 9 losses in regular season. Add 2 more for the tournaments and Cal is staring down at 11 loses when, as other people put it, he finally has his type of recruits.

DJ, Bradshaw, and Edwards are not great and certainly not elite players that Cal needs. Relying on this many freshmen doesn’t work anymore. The Wall Street Journal had a great article talking about experience levels in the last several years of final fours.

One and dones are a losing proposition. Yes, I know Reeves and Mitchell are starting. My point is that is still too many freshman.

 

[Random UK Fan]

Duh, they aren't starting off the season with a brand-new team full of FRESHMEN players every year, for 10+ years straight.

So what caliber player are they recruiting and harvesting so much success?

 

[BlueSince92]

Open offense
College defense
Some experience


You’ve got to remember, Cal’s hands are tied to a certain extent. There are only so many things he can do and still stay on top of screwing the Bennies.

 

[Mike-McD]

Cal doesn't ever change defenses.

We are the easiest team in the NCAA to prepare for. Just run PNR all day until you get matchups and then blow by our statuesque guards and either kick for a three or lay it off the glass and in.

 

[know1]

Cal's top priority is not the same as the fans'.

Other programs' coaches are actually focused on winning college basketball.

 

[YardCat]

Reading a lot of back and forth on “Cal is the problem, The OAD system is the problem, freshman-heavy team is the problem, NIL/parity is the problem” etc.

But ultimately, how are we seeing a couple of blue/new bloods making it to final fours and/or winning championships the last few years with lesser talent, lower-ranked recruiting classes, etc? Instead of what is UK/Cal doing wrong, my question is what are the other teams doing right, in your opinion?

Coaching is the key

 

[Creed Bratton]

According to this website this has been our defensive efficiency rankings since Cal has been here. As you can see in Cal's first 6 years here we finished in the top 10 3 times. Over the last 9 seasons our highest finish has been 28th and we have been over 100 3 of the last 4 years including this one so far. That will not win many conference or NCAA championships and our record has proven it. I know everyone has talked about our offense being outdated and it may have been but not stopping teams matters when tournament time comes.

2010- 10th
2011- 34th
2012- 9th
2013- 62nd
2014-73rd
2015-1st
2016-51st
2017-28th
2018-80th
2019-30th
2020-59th
2021- 110th
2022- 35th
2023- 103rd
2024- 137th

 

[Docpath1972]

The departure of Cal will be interesting. I don’t believe blue bloods have the extra prestige that they once had. Now it’s all about the Benjamins. With players eligible for 5-6 years, NIL, and transfer rules I’m not sure many coaches can build a program. It’s hard enough to build a team for a single year. The idea of growing and waiting for your time is over. I really don’t know what will happen and anyone who claims to know is blowing smoke. I’m not sure UK has the financial backing to compete in both major sports.

 

[megablue]

According to this website this has been our defensive efficiency rankings since Cal has been here. As you can see in Cal's first 6 years here we finished in the top 10 3 times. Over the last 9 seasons our highest finish has been 28th and we have been over 100 3 times including this one so far. That will not win many conference or NCAA championships and our record has proven it. I know everyone has talked about our offense being outdated and it may have been but not stopping teams matters when tournament time comes.

2010- 10th
2011- 34th
2012- 9th
2013- 62nd
2014-73rd
2015-1st
2016-51st
2017-28th
2018-80th
2019-30th
2020-59th
2021- 110th
2022- 35th
2023- 103rd
2024- 137th

I know there are exceptions, but it seems that younger teams struggle to defend against more-experienced teams, especially in March. Youth really hurts you on the defensive end of the floor.

 

[rolaid]

Cal cannot Coach - not sure how many of you all played High School or College but most on here know the game pretty damn well - but I want you to go watch the game clips that David Sisk & Brandon Ramsey put out from the game the other night
It’s so bad it’s laughable- ball - you - man means nothing to these dudes
What the hell do they do all day at practice?
His constant emotional substitutions drive me insane - he doesn’t think he just subs over a bad play or any random occurrence
We ain’t winning anything else with this dude on the sidelines

 

[CBBCrazy]

Cal cannot Coach - not sure how many of you all played High School or College but most on here know the game pretty damn well - but I want you to go watch the game clips that David Sisk & Brandon Ramsey put out from the game the other night
It’s so bad it’s laughable- ball - you - man means nothing to these dudes
What the hell do they do all day at practice?
His constant emotional substitutions drive me insane - he doesn’t think he just subs over a bad play or any random occurrence
We ain’t winning anything else with this dude on the sidelines

I agree with all you have posted here. I played ball in High School only but played for 2 different high schools. I have been close to high school games and college games in our area as my son played ball. Never, have I ever played for or seen in any game that a coach never changes defenses. Never will a coach allows his team play at the pace of his opponent. A smart coach will press, go to a zone or others to either slow down or speed up his opponent. Cal is the rock head that is going to do it his way regardless of the outside noise. Barnhardt is part of the problem giving an inept coach a lifetime deal. I firmly believe he will never win another championship here. His players first woke attitude is not structured for winning but for the welfare of the player. Sad and no other way to fix it without him leaving willingly or being fired. I would be satisfied with either option. This used car salesman needs to go if UK wants to get back to winning championships imo.

 

[BlueWorldOrder74]

Very thought provoking post here for sure. Let me think on it and I’ll check in later.

 

[BigBlueManSouthCentralKY]

Reading a lot of back and forth on “Cal is the problem, The OAD system is the problem, freshman-heavy team is the problem, NIL/parity is the problem” etc.

But ultimately, how are we seeing a couple of blue/new bloods making it to final fours and/or winning championships the last few years with lesser talent, lower-ranked recruiting classes, etc? Instead of what is UK/Cal doing wrong, my question is what are the other teams doing right, in your opinion?

One thing is they play their best players and don't worry much about minutes for the ones not producing. Second, they are flexible, for instance, they may press certain teams or play a zone against certain teams. Third, their best players are not being jerked in and out where they can't get in a flow like other teams players can.

Having to play two or three players that mostly disrupts the team because of lack of production really hurts the team. Also, our guys just don't play as hard as some of the better coached teams. They come to play every night. They are taught to play defense as well as they can. Just some things I think goes into it. Lot of variables that when you put them together makes a lot of difference.

 

[catben]

Cal doesn't ever change defenses.

We are the easiest team in the NCAA to prepare for. Just run PNR all day until you get matchups and then blow by our statuesque guards and either kick for a three or lay it off the glass and in.

Then all opponents have to do on defense is stay in front of our guards all the way to the goal and make our kids get tough 2’s and never help until they go up for a shot in the paint. That keeps our 3 pt shooters from scoring and our young guys are HORRIBLE at drawing fouls because they hate contact. Our Bigs are easily rooted out of the Paint and except for Reed, none of our players are very good passers.

 

[canebreak]

The departure of Cal will be interesting. I don’t believe blue bloods have the extra prestige that they once had. Now it’s all about the Benjamins. With players eligible for 5-6 years, NIL, and transfer rules I’m not sure many coaches can build a program. It’s hard enough to build a team for a single year. The idea of growing and waiting for your time is over. I really don’t know what will happen and anyone who claims to know is blowing smoke. I’m not sure UK has the financial backing to compete in both major sports.

AGREE 1,000%. Anyone who thinks they know what will happen is full of crap. I have been saying that about Alabama football fans. Not that it is a direct correlation, but the GDP of the state of Alabama and the state of Kentucky are identical. Middling states. Where is the money gonna come from? I tell people to find new hobbies.

 

[RunninRichie]

Not having John Calipari employed.

 

[DreadLox]

According to this website this has been our defensive efficiency rankings since Cal has been here. As you can see in Cal's first 6 years here we finished in the top 10 3 times. Over the last 9 seasons our highest finish has been 28th and we have been over 100 3 of the last 4 years including this one so far. That will not win many conference or NCAA championships and our record has proven it. I know everyone has talked about our offense being outdated and it may have been but not stopping teams matters when tournament time comes.

2010- 10th
2011- 34th
2012- 9th
2013- 62nd
2014-73rd
2015-1st
2016-51st
2017-28th
2018-80th
2019-30th
2020-59th
2021- 110th
2022- 35th
2023- 103rd
2024- 137th

He recruited skinny shooters. You can be "dawg" all you want but whippets won't control mastiffs. Next year, Quaintance and Somto are big burly guys. Carnak predicts: next year, the offense comes back to Earth and the defense improves.

 

[MissingWCC]

Keeping as many players that know your system as you can seems to be the key. That having been said, look for 7 or 8 guys to leave next year and have to be replaced. Losing most of the starting five and even decent bench players every is the biggest problem for UK that I see.

 

[sluggercatfan]

Cal cannot Coach - not sure how many of you all played High School or College but most on here know the game pretty damn well - but I want you to go watch the game clips that David Sisk & Brandon Ramsey put out from the game the other night
It’s so bad it’s laughable- ball - you - man means nothing to these dudes
What the hell do they do all day at practice?
His constant emotional substitutions drive me insane - he doesn’t think he just subs over a bad play or any random occurrence
We ain’t winning anything else with this dude on the sidelines

How to access these guys clips please.

 

[sluggercatfan]

I agree with all you have posted here. I played ball in High School only but played for 2 different high schools. I have been close to high school games and college games in our area as my son played ball. Never, have I ever played for or seen in any game that a coach never changes defenses. Never will a coach allows his team play at the pace of his opponent. A smart coach will press, go to a zone or others to either slow down or speed up his opponent. Cal is the rock head that is going to do it his way regardless of the outside noise. Barnhardt is part of the problem giving an inept coach a lifetime deal. I firmly believe he will never win another championship here. His players first woke attitude is not structured for winning but for the welfare of the player. Sad and no other way to fix it without him leaving willingly or being fired. I would be satisfied with either option. This used car salesman needs to go if UK wants to get back to winning championships imo.

Personally, I don't believe he makes another FF.

 

[NociHTTP]

Almost every move Cal makes factors in his preference for having *ranked* players on the court. If you're not *ranked* then you will have to work extra hard to get playing time. Also, everything Cal does from start to finish of a season is designed to ensure that as many players get drafted as possible. In the beginning he gives them undeserved playing time, in the name of "coaching up" against mostly inferiror opponents so that he can get them showcased for the scouts. When he settles on his rotation he prefers to have the ranked guys make the cut. When it's tournament time his huttbole puckers up because he's trying to showcase his guys for the last time before June. NEVER does he talk about trying to win the conference or win any tournament. I'm more than ready for his departure, a whole lot of us are.

 

[blackcat714]

Not sure honestly, a lot of people will say it’s because Cal cannot coach. I don’t think that’s ultimately the reason why Kentucky can’t do it. I think before the season the game had passed Cal by and teams were playing a new style. Cal finally has bought into that style with this team. So let’s see if Kentucky can do it with the new style of play

Good be the talent is not as good as led to believe

 

[ukcatz12]

I know everyone has talked about our offense being outdated and it may have been but not stopping teams matters when tournament time comes.

Offense was never the problem. Just because it looked outdated didn't mean it wasn't working. Oscar's first year here we were 5th in offensive efficiency. Last year 17th I believe. Both of those are more than good enough to make a Final Four. It's the defense that's the problem and it has been for a while now. It's just bad enough this year that people are finally realizing it.

 

[oldfanofuk]

College Basketball has become more like figure skating and other "judged" sports. Its hard to find two games in a row where the ref's call a game the same way. What's a foul one game is a great play in another.

 

[fastpaste101]

Duh, they aren't starting off the season with a brand-new team full of FRESHMEN players every year, for 10+ years straight.

Do you watch games? This not accurate. We have had several upper class men as contributors the last few years.

 

[ruppcat]

Cal's top priority is not the same as the fans'.

Other programs' coaches are actually focused on winning college basketball.

I think that's the primary difference.

 

[ruppcat]

I agree with all you have posted here. I played ball in High School only but played for 2 different high schools. I have been close to high school games and college games in our area as my son played ball. Never, have I ever played for or seen in any game that a coach never changes defenses. Never will a coach allows his team play at the pace of his opponent. A smart coach will press, go to a zone or others to either slow down or speed up his opponent. Cal is the rock head that is going to do it his way regardless of the outside noise. Barnhardt is part of the problem giving an inept coach a lifetime deal. I firmly believe he will never win another championship here. His players first woke attitude is not structured for winning but for the welfare of the player. Sad and no other way to fix it without him leaving willingly or being fired. I would be satisfied with either option. This used car salesman needs to go if UK wants to get back to winning championships imo.

In my kid's rec league....yeah, I know, rec ball....the coach played man to man all season. Team had one regular season loss to a team with an uber athletic kid who could drive at will.

Both teams made the championship. Our coaches son (I'm talking 50yr old son) convinced his dad to play zone to stop the uber kid from penetrating.

Worked perfectly. But 3rd q the kid was so frustrated he almost got t'd up.

Son's team won by 21 and it could have been worse.

Point is....if a rec league coach is willing to mix it up why can't a $9m a year coach mix it up??

 

[TheDude73]

You won't get many good answers here because UK fans don't watch other teams like we do our own. We can't sit and do a 1 for 1, side-by-side comparison of coaching styles or the like because most of us don't care to watch other teams as closely as we do Kentucky.

As such, the majority of answers we'll see will be the lazy ones that don't require actually knowing anything about what other teams do that makes them so much better than Cal and UK.

One exception - Cal doesn't switch defenses, ever. The most successful teams and their coaches are successful because they don't just run man-to-man with switches all game long. They mix it up. They know what a zone is and when to use it. The other things do that Cal doesn't - draw up offensive plays to isolate and obtain the best matchups to score (his method is "go score"...that's it).

 

[UKWildcats1987]

Well Kansas cheated to win their title so there is that.

Unc got help from the refs to win theirs against Arkansas and UK in 2017 ncaa tourney.

Duke got to play a weak 5 seed in the final four while the two best teams beat each other to death...and got favorable officiating against Wisconsin n title game after being down a decent chunk of game.

UKs issue is 100% Calipari though.

 

[UKNothinButNet]

Do you watch games? This not accurate. We have had several upper class men as contributors the last few years.

Of course I do, before and after I fall asleep. During the last game I dozed off right before we went down by 20. Timing was perfect!

 

[NoDef]

The COVID rule has made somewhat of a difference. My girl has graduated college and been in the work field for two years and some people she graduated with is still playing college basketball.

 

[Ron Swanson]

No other team is routinely contending for F4's or championships like you all seem to act.

The "other teams" are willing to go through several average or even bad years to build a team that may have a breakout year or 2.

Uconn for instance had not been past the SW 16 since 2014. They missed the tournament 4 times in that span. However, last year and this year they have had very good years. They will very likely regress again for several more years.

KU has probably been the most consistent and they have been past the SW16 twice in the last 6 years. 1 of them was vacated and the other they won a title.

Baylor won a title in 21. Other than that, they have been past the SW16 3 times in the last 73 years. 1 of them resulted in a F4.

So, who are these other schools you're referring to as doing it?

 

[Creed Bratton]

Offense was never the problem. Just because it looked outdated didn't mean it wasn't working. Oscar's first year here we were 5th in offensive efficiency. Last year 17th I believe. Both of those are more than good enough to make a Final Four. It's the defense that's the problem and it has been for a while now. It's just bad enough this year that people are finally realizing it.

Not all of us. I have said for 3-4 years in a row that our defense sucked.

Was Kenny Payne in charge of the defense because our biggest decline coincides with his departure.

 

[UKBB4Ever]

It’s just pure nonsense and basically a blatant lie to claim Cal plays players due to rankings or promises.

The team on the floor this year just destroys that nonsense and the liars can’t even see it.

Reeves and Mitchell aren’t playing because of any rankings or supposed promises. They are playing because Cal thinks they give us the best chance to win.

Same thing he’s done since he got here. He might play a player here and there that’s not ready now but it’s to get him ready for later.

There’s never been even one player say he was promised anything by Cal. Even the disgruntled players that have left don’t say they were lied to.

Two seasons ago the experts here wanted Cal to play Toppin over the chosen one, Brooks.

Then last season everyone saw why Brooks played over Toppin.

People here are scared of the bogeyman, Klutch. In reality Klutch is good for us.

But just keep on spewing your hate and lies to each other.

Only the little circle jerk of the CHC is buying what you are selling.

 

[BobbyBlue32]

Reading a lot of back and forth on “Cal is the problem, The OAD system is the problem, freshman-heavy team is the problem, NIL/parity is the problem” etc.

But ultimately, how are we seeing a couple of blue/new bloods making it to final fours and/or winning championships the last few years with lesser talent, lower-ranked recruiting classes, etc? Instead of what is UK/Cal doing wrong, my question is what are the other teams doing right, in your opinion?

Who are you talking about specifically?

 

[BobbyBlue32]

No other team is routinely contending for F4's or championships like you all seem to act.

The "other teams" are willing to go through several average or even bad years to build a team that may have a breakout year or 2.

Uconn for instance had not been past the SW 16 since 2014. They missed the tournament 4 times in that span. However, last year and this year they have had very good years. They will very likely regress again for several more years.

KU has probably been the most consistent and they have been past the SW16 twice in the last 6 years. 1 of them was vacated and the other they won a title.

Baylor won a title in 21. Other than that, they have been past the SW16 3 times in the last 73 years. 1 of them resulted in a F4.

So, who are these other schools you're referring to as doing it?

There’s a reason they never give specifics and say “other teams” and “other coaches”. They know we will tear a hole into their dumb narrative immediately.