By the way, how was your first post “nice”? You were condescending, insulting and flat out rude. I know many many people from Kentucky, they are wonderful people. They would not consider that “nice”.
Gonzaga schedule
- Thread starter Sparkaces1
- Start date
So just to be clear, making the sweet 16 for the last four years, a feat that no other team has done mind you, is actually indicative of us playing a “cupcake” schedule and playing to or above our seed? No one will argue or defend our weak conference, because we can’t, but we cannot also just choose our conference either, so we are stuck with that. But playing in a weaker conference has not hurt us in March madness, at all. Thankfully.
Well considering we are talking on THIS message board, yes I'm referring to people here.
But let's not act as if UK fans are the only ones that don't think the Zags deserve a 1 seed.
You are correct. Other message boards have discussed our merit. Here is a link to the one on Virginia’s board from a few days ago that was started by one poster that sounds like the majority of your fans posters on this board. Now in contrast read how his fellow Virginia fans responded compared to how most of your fans have responded. Warning, the format of the board is really hard, if you’re reading it on your phone it should be OK but if you are on a laptop just click on next. It’s a pretty good read Thanks
https://virginia.sportswar.com/mid/11521755/board/basketball/
Hey as long as your fan base is okay with a Sweet 16 appearance or even a rare Final Four appearance after being ranked in the top 5 all season then more power to you.
Meh. They've been ranked in the top 5 for a significant period of the season twice in the past 5 seasons. They went to the Elite Eight and title game in those 2 seasons. They are a VERY talented team with 2 potential lottery picks in this years draft and 3 experienced 4 stars (one of which started for the runner-up team) in the starting line-up.
Million dollar question... does ANYONE actually think Gonzaga is the best team in the nation? I definitely believe they're the best team out west, but the best in the nation? Not even close.
I think they are a top 5 team. I'm not sure where they belong in that group, but I do believe they are legit. They have a great coach and a very talented roster. The question, which has been brought up by many in here, is if their lack of competition over the past few months will come back to bite them.
It's possible they could be.
Virginia maybe? Duke maybe?
I think you could make an argument for any of them TBH
TBH with how we've improved, you could probably make an argument that at full health, we are the best team.
In the past 10 years despite averaging 29.9 wins per year they have managed 1 final four and 2 elite eights. They win in a weak conference but blowing out crappy teams doesn't prepare them for the NCAA tournament.
It's really simple. Look at the schedule strength of the teams vying for a 1 seed, and then convince everyone as to how you (or these other "people" you speak of) justify Gonzaga taking a 1 seed from another team with a stronger schedule, more top wins in that stronger schedule, and a plethora of Quad 1 wins. All we want to hear (yes, people here at this forum and many, many people outside of the forum, including media talking heads) is solid rationale for giving Gonzaga a 1 seed over teams with success in a much tougher conference and schedule.
I would put them at around #10. They've played 3 good teams this season and lost to 2 of 3. They lost to Tennessee and UNC. Both of those teams have improved since they played. I don't see how playing nobody since early December can help you improve. It's human nature to see no need to improve if you're beating everyone you play by 20-30 points.
I think UK, UNC, Virginia, Duke, Mich St, Mich, Tennessee, LSU, Texas Tech, and Purdue are all better teams. I think just about any of the top 20 or so could beat them on a good day. I think their 8/9 matchup, which will probably be a good power 5 school, will be a legitimate threat to beat them. One thing is sure, you can't tell anything from their numbers. They mean absolutely nothing because these teams they're dominating are absolutely awful.
You keep saying this despite several posters telling you that it is factually incorrect. We have played to or above our seed eight out of the last nine years. Yes we play in a weak conference, which we have no control over, and no it has not hurt us in March madness. This is a fact, it is not a matter of debate.
They obviously are a good team with decent coach and players. They just aren't the best and beating Duke and losing to two other top 25 teams doesn't prove they are the best in the country. Neither do statistical models that put weight on margin of victory, or off/def efficiency numbers when the competition is no better than a junior college freshman team.
The question is really more of what is the justification for a 1 seed over the other teams vying for a 1 seed when it's clear the schedule strength and performance in those schedules is night and day different.
For years all we heard (and still hear) from the selection committee during seeding debates was that the SEC was down, so UK, even with all their wins, couldn't justifiably have a higher seed than someone that performed as well, but in a tougher schedule/conference. However, Gonzaga gets a pass, every year, on this same situation, even in years when the committee babbles on with other teams not getting higher seeds (or even getting in the dance).
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Agree. They definitely appear to be much more athletic than their previous teams.
He didn't say anything about seeding. He said although they've averaged nearly 30 wins per year, they've not consistently gone far (and by far, we usually mean E8 or better) in the tournament over the past 10 years.
Have you seen Kentucky's success in the past ten years, or do I need to post it here for you to see?
You also ramble on about how awesome it is to be the only team to make S16 for the past 4 straight years. Whoopee. UK and Cal has made the Final Four or better in 4 of the last 9 years. FOUR OF NINE!! He's gotten us to the Elite 8 or better 6 of 9 years. He won a championship one of those years, and was the runner up another (50% of the time he gets us to a F4, he gets us to championship game). They've also made the S16 (apparently your bar for raving success) or better 7 of 9 years.
So Calipari has gotten UK to your high bar of the S16 78% of the time he's been here. For our high bar, its the Final Four or better, and our coach has taken us there 45% of his time at Kentucky. He's gotten us to the E8 or better 67% of his time at Kentucky.
You've just come to the wrong place to get excited about your successes getting to the S16. Around here, that's made fun of in an Indiana kind of way.
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What about my statement is factually incorrect. Your team has won an average of 29.9 games per year in the last 10 years. During that same span they made the final four 1 time and elite 8 twice. Don't let your bias make you look like a lunatic who can't comprehend facts.
People keep bringing up the Tennessee loss, and I understand why. However, that game was tied with 30 seconds to go and Gonzaga had two shots to tie at the end of the game. They lost by 3. UT had the same ranking then as they do now. They are just as good as UT imo.
If I was seeding them, I'd probably put them as the lowest 1 seed, giving them the highest 2 seed.
What if I told you I didn't think UT was that good, either? Keep in mind they just recently hit the hard part of their schedule, so one could make a case that they may have been a bit overrated thanks to an easy OOC and first 2/3 of their SEC schedules.
Funny thing is, the one time we didn’t make the Sweet Sixteen or better in the last 5 years was when we were mis-seeded because we didn’t have enough quality wins, and got shipped to Des Moines to play the Big 10 champ in the second round.
So I feel your pain as far as the fairness of treatment. We were 8th in Kenpom going into that tournament, with the number 1 offense. On paper, we could have been a 2. Should have been a 3 at worst. But we got a 4, and a terrible draw, due to “resume.”
My argument is that the committee got it wrong then. Just because we got screwed, doesn’t mean Gonzaga should get screwed. Just as importantly, how does it affect the teams Gonzaga has to play when Gonzaga is mis-seeded?
I think Gonzaga is one of the 4 best teams, and they’ve done all they can do. It won’t bother me if they slip to a 2, because Virginia, UNC, and UK have all been playing great basketball, and a fully healthy Duke is still a top 2 team at worst. I’ll even leave room for Michigan St. or UT to close the season strong and earn a 1.
But at worst, Gonzaga drops to the two out West. Not due to their weakness, but an acknowledgement of the strength of others. Anything lower than a two, I can’t see it. It punishes everybody.
Didn't say "aren't any good", I said "aren't that good". By this I mean not as good as the hype they've received due to having not really played anyone, or having not done well against the anyones they've managed to play all year (Gonzaga 1-2 against "anyone", and UT is 1-3 against "anyone").
The Pac 12 sucks so now the Zags have lost a Quad 1 win giving them even less than before and only 1 win against the Top 30.
Neither here nor there, yet when Gonzaga played UT AND UNC, their back up PG was out, along with their leading scorer off last year's team (6'10 post on NBA mocks), thus 2 of their Top 6 guys were not playing vs either team.
Obviously, no excuses yet if we talk about improving, well, so have the Zags.
Also, Mich St and Gonzaga scrimmagea before the season started. Zags beat Sparty by 17. This was widely reported by numerous sources, including Jeff Goodman. I realize its just a scrimmage game but still the same thing for both teams. MSU could have won, but Zags dominated, and I can link the interview via Tom Izzo stating Gonzaga was much better and easily a Final 4 contender.
Is Duke really the better team? Zags held a 13-17 pt lead the entire game, until the final 3 mins when Rui Hachimura (21 ppg, 7 rpg) sat down with foul trouble and Duke made a run. The 2nd half of that game was a double digit lead for 16 of 20 mins.
Also, Gonzag only team in nation to beat Duke at FULL strength.
If you watched the Tennessee game, the Zags had a 9 pt lead with 4 mins to go until Admiral went 5 of 8 from 3pt in the final minutes. Zags had the lead for nearly 95% of the game.
All good squads ,anything can happen come March. Every metric states Gonzaga has as much of a chance as any other Top 5 team if not better.
And no team playing better than Kentucky right now. No Zag fan wants to see Kentucky unless it's in Minneapolis.
NCAA is the deepest it's been in a decade. It's not one team...then everyone else.
There are 6 or 7 teams whom could win it all this year.
Exciting!
I'm sure Kentucky's efficiency number's would look real nice if we got to play high school teams 15 or 16 games a year. Seems like the Zags really found a loophole, play 3 good teams then play the little sisters of the poor the rest of the year and as long as you win 1 of those 3 tough games you get a 1 seed. Seriously though this type of resume should not be rewarded. Also i do not understand the Zags fans saying sorry we have no control over our conference. Gonzaga is actually the only one that can control what conference they are in, and if their conference doesn't fit their basketball aspirations then leave. Don't give me the we can't help it that our schedule sucks.
It doesn't do any good to point out the facts to a bunch of posters on this board. The Zags could win 6 ncaa titles in a row and people on this board, such as the dude would still say they couldn't play, because they play in the west coast conference. They are not intelligent enough to admit that the Zags were in the championship game year before last ,or are the only team in the country to go to at least the sweet 16 the last 4 years in a row, or the only team in the country that has won at least 1 game in ncaa tournament the last 16 years in a row. You know Baldwin that arrogance and stupidity go hand and hand, don't you? If you didn't know before you should now after reading some of these posts.
10 straight years with at least one win. They lost their first game in 2007 and in 2008. Still a nice run.
Zag fan here and I'm happy to help.
It appears that there are many UK fans who take the position, with a straight face, that UK deserves a top seed more than Gonzaga does.
Gonzaga beat Duke. Duke boatraced you guys you by 34. So there's that.
But the reality is that both teams have good records and good wins.
You know what Gonzaga didn't do? Lose to Seton Hall (16-11) and Alabama (17-11), both mediocre teams who are going nowhere.
Gonzaga's two losses are to teams that will finish the season as top 10 teams and be at worst 2-3 seeds in the dance.
You have two losses to teams that may not and likely will not. make the tournament.
Wins matter but so do losses particularly when you are making a case for a 1 seed. If you guys won those two games this wouldn't even be a debate and you'd have that 1 seed over all teams but Duke. Then again if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.
I’ve never acted like you guys didn’t deserve a 1, but your fans are starting to get annoying.
Alabama and Seton Hall would be two of the toughest games on your schedule. You almost lost to Washington, and they are just a shade better than Alabama.
When the toughest games that you really have to get up for are once a month vs. a top 50 team, that’s a little easier to do than to face strong opponents twice a week, week after week.
No, you don’t have any bad losses, but if you played our schedule you probably would. Just the way it usually goes.
I congratulate you on how consistently well you’ve played for most of the year, even against a weak schedule, but there’s nothing to be smug about. The case for why some UK fans think we should be ahead of you is hardly unheralded. It’s actually the way the NCAA has claimed to seed the tournament for years.
Hopefully, for your sakes, your team and coach aren’t as cocky as your fans. Frankly, it wouldn’t bother me if you are overall number 1, but don’t come here bragging about not taking any bad losses, when you’ve barely played anyone in months.
You realize that efficiency numbers posted on sites like Kenpom are scheduled adjusted right?
I feel like people are missing this key concept.
So UK scoring 1.20 points per possession against an SEC opponent isn't the same as Gonzaga scoring 1.20 points per possession of a WCC opponent.
It's just that Gonzaga isn't scoring 1.20 in those games but rather 1.40 lol.
While Gonzaga plays in an easier conference, it takes them winning by more naturally to move up in these type of rankings.
It's one thing to take issue with the SOS calculation.........maybe it's not weighing things enough.....who knows...but we need to acknowledge these numbers account for the conference difference.
Idk if you can factually dispute his claim. How can you possibly know how you guys would have fared in the NCAA tourney not playing bad teams? Considering every year you get an easier path and no National titles in the 10 years you've been considered elite I don't think you can dispute much of anything. This is a UK board and we play for final 4s not matching your seed. For a nice little mid major you guys have been great but win a ship and you deserve the benefit of the doubt.
Explain what you mean that Gonzaga every year gets an easier path the past decade.
We love BB we talk about all the teams that are of relevance. Don't feel too special. It's more about looking at 1 seeds and you guys happen to be one. Some of us think your 1 win against the Top 25 in an entire season doesn't covet a 1 seed or at least not the overall 1 seed that is all.
Their schedule sucks and they may not be worthy of a #1 seed stacked up against all the other #1 seed contenders but that doesn't mean they can't win a National Championship and that doesn't mean they are not a top 3 favorite to win it all. They have the talent.
Nice post, but we can't really give points for ifs and buts. If so we lost our last 3 games by a total of 5 points. SH guy went crazy and we missed the last second shot to lose by 1 in OT. @Bama no real excuse and we lost by 2. LSU, well most know what happened in that 2 point loss. The only team to beat us by more than 2 points happened in the very 1st game of the year and since then we don't even look like the same team. The sad part is we have a killer resume, but if we slip up we will lose our 1 while others don't have to have as much to be a 1.
I like the Zags I always cheered for them as an underdog it's just now they're mentioned with the big boys, but they don't play nearly as a demanding schedule as most of them do. Most of the big boys play in tough conferences and schedule tough non-conference. I mean this year UK played all the blue blood in Dook, UNC, KU. We also played U6 knowing we had a strong SEC to compete in. I get it though. You guys would just be so much better suited at this point in another conference. I just don't know if it's possible though. I mean Witchita St did it and they don't have a FB team, but again I don't know all the ins and outs of it.
I think they're good. I just think this year you have 6-7 teams going for those 4 1 seeds that have bigger resumes and SOS and it's tough to discount them all for a team with 1 win vs the NEt Top 30. It's crazy to think by the time the Zags play a second-round game in the NCAA which may be a tough opponent or it may take until the 3rd round it will have been 3+ months since they played a good team. Not since back to back losses to UNC and TN back at Dec. 15th.
I don’t understand what you’re asking for. It’s been given to you several times by several posters. Kenpom, NET, metrics, scoring average, scoring margin, and obviously record. I don’t care if you don’t agree. But facts don’t care about your feelings.
Wait… Are you actually saying that teams can literally choose what conference they’re in? Because it sure seems to be what you’re implying towards the end of your post.
I have noticed that the term “good team” is thrown around rather loosely and subjectively on this board.
Well, I did that because I'm not sure what you would consider a good team. for all I know you might think SF or Pepperdine are good teams. Bottom line is at least Top 30 which you have 1 win against. I would consider good teams the Zags have played as UNC, Dook, and TN. I would try to give you Washington, but after they lost to CAL that's tough. You guys are 3-2 in Quad 1 and 1 of those is @Creighton who is 14-13. The other one besides Dook is @SF. So not sure how there are any more good teams to be found in your schedule. I mean SF and St Marys are 1-9 in Quad 1 games and they are the 2nd and 3rd best teams in your conference so they would be a real stretch.
