Free Will is an Illusion … ??

[megablue]

Absolutely fascinating concept to think about, to say the least.
Do we really know where thought comes from and why we do what we do … ??

Free will | Definition, Determinism, & Facts

Free will, in humans, the power to make decisions or perform actions independently of any prior event or state of the universe. Arguments for free will are based on the common assumption of individual moral responsibility, among other considerations. Free will is denied by some proponents of...

www.britannica.com

 

[Hank Camacho]

False.

 

[LOL_Man]

Absolutely fascinating theory to think about, to say the least. Do we really know where thought comes from and why we do what we do … ??

What you see and experience you are influenced by. Humans are natural at mimicking things they are influenced by. It's basically why commercials are so expensive. It's also the meaning of glancing into the abyss and the abyss glancing back.

So "free will" is your individual ability to express intelligent human reasoning over and above what you would otherwise be influenced by. You are only as free as your ability to think critically. It's why things like religion are language viruses. They coopt your ability to reason and launch you head first into the world of "belief" over rational thought. If you are religious you have surrendered your free will no different than a cult member or a termite.

 

[MdWIldcat55]

If there was no free will some controlling intelligence would have stopped you from starting this thread.

 

[AustinTXCat]

Immediately if not sooner.

 

[funKYcat75]

Do we really know where thought comes from and why we do what we do … ??

It comes from our brain. Case closed.

 

[Sawnee Cat]

If the United States Government or any government had their way there would be no free will. It takes Courage To Be Free.

But for those of us who take our freedom from God and not the State, we will always have free will. As long as I have a functioning brain I will make my own decisions.

 

[BC_Wader]

 

[JonathanW]

Two people with the same background, very similar life experiences, similar intellect, can be put in the same situation and make very different decisions. That is enough proof for me that Free Will exists.

 

[megablue]

As I said in my opening post, I find the whole discussion of free will to be absolutely fascinating. There are countless studies and positions taken by Neuroscientists, Physicists, Psychologists, Philosophers, Theologians, etc. I think it's interesting to think about and consider them, especially studies by Physicists, Neuroscientists and Psychologists. All you need to do, if interested, is google the internet and/or youtube videos and you will come up with links like these that may fascinate you ... at least, they do me.
Here are several examples:

Our Brains Make Up Our Minds Before We Know It

In the bustle of our daily lives, many of our choices are made without any conscious thought.

www.psychologytoday.com

 

[chroix]

She'll be eating blubber all right, just as soon as l free willy.

Me, Myself & Irene (2000) clip with quote She'll be eating blubber all right, just as soon as l free willy. Yarn is the best search for video clips by quote. Find the exact moment in a TV show, movie, or music video you want to share. Easily move forward or backward to get to the...

getyarn.io

 

[LOL_Man]

Me, Myself, & Irene is awesome. I LMAO at a hundred things in that movie. Especially when she walks into the hotel room and Jim is laying there sprawled out with dirty kleenex's all over the place and her picture propped up on a pillow.

 

[chroix]

As I said in my opening post, I find the whole discussion of free will to be absolutely fascinating. There are countless studies and positions taken by Neuroscientists, Physicists, Psychologists, Philosophers, Theologians, etc. I think it's interesting to think about and consider them, especially studies by Physicists, Neuroscientists and Psychologists. All you need to do, if interested, is google the internet and/or youtube videos and you will come up with links like these that may fascinate you ... at least, they do me.
Here are several examples:

Our Brains Make Up Our Minds Before We Know It

In the bustle of our daily lives, many of our choices are made without any conscious thought.

www.psychologytoday.com

View embedded media

View embedded media

Nothing is more interesting than the big questions and in my mind exploring them is mankind’s highest purpose. Sam Harris definitely has some thought provoking episodes. I don’t always agree with him but I do enjoy how he gets the old cogs turning.

 

[chroix]

Me, Myself, & Irene is awesome. I LMAO at a hundred things in that movie. Especially when she walks into the hotel room and Jim is laying there sprawled out with dirty kleenex's all over the place and her picture propped up on a pillow.

One of the funniest and underrated movies ever.

 

[chroix]

What you see and experience you are influenced by. Humans are natural at mimicking things they are influenced by. It's basically why commercials are so expensive. It's also the meaning of glancing into the abyss and the abyss glancing back.

So "free will" is your individual ability to express intelligent human reasoning over and above what you would otherwise be influenced by. You are only as free as your ability to think critically. It's why things like religion are language viruses. They coopt your ability to reason and launch you head first into the world of "belief" over rational thought. If you are religious you have surrendered your free will no different than a cult member or a termite.

I agree with a lot of this but there are still big unanswered questions that even science can’t sniff at yet. But the belief over rational thought completely agree. There are no other parts of peoples lives that they would hand over to faith yet the biggest and maybe most consequential they do in a hot second. Makes no sense to me. But they also rarely acknowledge the role early childhood indoctrination plays so I guess it makes sense.

 

[IdaCat]

I'm not a physicist and I have a simple-minded question I'm hoping somebody can answer.

The lack of free will argument seems to be totally based on deterministic Newtonian physics.

What if we make a decision based on a random probabilistic quantum value, say using a quantum number generator? Wouldn't that break the no free will argument?

 

[megablue]

I'm not a physicist and I have a simple-minded question I'm hoping somebody can answer.

The lack of free will argument seems to be totally based on deterministic Newtonian physics.

What if we make a decision based on a random probabilistic quantum value, say using a quantum number generator? Wouldn't that break the no free will argument?

The decision would not be yours, it seems to me. It would be random, which is what many think is already happening.

 

[megablue]

Nothing is more interesting than the big questions and in my mind exploring them is mankind’s highest purpose. Sam Harris definitely has some thought provoking episodes. I don’t always agree with him but I do enjoy how he gets the old cogs turning.

I am right there with you regarding the big questions. I would love to have majored in Physics, but knew early on that I wasn't smart enough. My high school Physics class remains the most interesting and stimulating educational experience of my life.

Regarding Sam Harris, I really enjoy listening to him, along with many others like Hitchens, Dawkins, Dennett, Krause, Asimov, Greene, Carroll, Shermer, Randi, Tyson, Pinker, Feynman, Sagan, Dillahunty ... to name a few. I find them to be extremely interesting and thought-provoking ... certainly more so than Joe Lunardi and the sports crowd. Humbly so, I like to fancy myself as a Seeker !!



I am 70 years old and have been to innumerable concerts ... THE WHO in Riverbend Coliseum on 12/08/75 still remains, far and away, the best concert I ever saw. This was the show there before the later tour when the tragedy occurred ...

Thanks for the reply ... and keep on seeking !!

 

[Deeeefense]

Along this line of discussion I would throw in the concept of Manifesting:

Manifestation—the idea of bringing something you want into existence through aspirational-thought practices—is nothing new: It has roots in the 19th-century New Thought spiritual movement, which included the belief that our thoughts can influence the material world and, essentially, that positive thinking is the answer to most of our earthly problems

Psychology Experts on Whether Manifesting Actually Works

It's not necessarily just wishful thinking.

www.self.com

 

[IdaCat]

The decision would not be yours, it seems to me. It would be random, which is what many think is already happening.

So the lack of free will argument is not strictly based on determinism and allows for quantum randomness? This scenario seems to imply that we are robots at the mercy of the chaos of the universe living out some unpredictable destiny.

 

[megablue]

Along this line of discussion I would throw in the concept of Manifesting:

Manifestation—the idea of bringing something you want into existence through aspirational-thought practices—is nothing new: It has roots in the 19th-century New Thought spiritual movement, which included the belief that our thoughts can influence the material world and, essentially, that positive thinking is the answer to most of our earthly problems

Psychology Experts on Whether Manifesting Actually Works

It's not necessarily just wishful thinking.

www.self.com

Interesting … I will look into it. Thanks !!

 

[megablue]

So the lack of free will argument is not strictly based on determinism and allows for quantum randomness? This scenario seems to imply that we are robots at the mercy of the chaos of the universe living out some unpredictable destiny.

I do not pretend to know, but my sense is that some (probably not physicists) posit that free will is random to the extent that our brain (mind) was randomly “assigned”
to our body, thus making us who we are.
That line of thinking is outside the Physics’ school of thought, imho.

I love thinking about these things, but do not even know enough to make me dangerous. Most of my ability to relate to the question of free will comes from thinking about my own self and wondering why I think and act like I do.

I am not convinced I truly have free will, but simply think and act like I do … because I am me, randomly so.

 

[IdaCat]

I do not pretend to know, but my sense is that some (probably not physicists) posit that free will is random to the extent that our brain (mind) was randomly “assigned”
to our body, thus making us who we are.
That line of thinking is outside the Physics’ school of thought, imho.

I love thinking about these things, but do not even know enough to make me dangerous. Most of ability to relate to the question of free will comes from my thinking about my own self and wondering why I think and do like I do.

I don't pretend to know much, but do find it interesting.

I do think that human knowledge of physics and all of science really is often overstated and used to formulate theories that are probably not close to accurate. That's fine. It's how science works. Just need to not make it a "settled" religion. It's then difficult to change or look at any other possible explanations that may advance knowledge.

 

[chroix]

Along this line of discussion I would throw in the concept of Manifesting:

Manifestation—the idea of bringing something you want into existence through aspirational-thought practices—is nothing new: It has roots in the 19th-century New Thought spiritual movement, which included the belief that our thoughts can influence the material world and, essentially, that positive thinking is the answer to most of our earthly problems

Psychology Experts on Whether Manifesting Actually Works

It's not necessarily just wishful thinking.

www.self.com

Creative visualization is a lot easier for me to accept than manifesting. Might just be semantics but a lot of the manifesting fans I’ve known were just well off and destined to succeed because they already had success. Starving kid in a developing country can manifest all they want and still be hungry at the end of the day.

 

[chroix]

I am right there with you regarding the big questions. I would love to have majored in Physics, but knew early on that I wasn't smart enough. My high school Physics class remains the most interesting and stimulating educational experience of my life.

Regarding Sam Harris, I really enjoy listening to him, along with many others like Hitchens, Dawkins, Dennett, Krause, Asimov, Greene, Carroll, Shermer, Randi, Tyson, Pinker, Feynman, Sagan, Dillahunty ... to name a few. I find them to be extremely interesting and thought-provoking ... certainly more so than Joe Lunardi and the sports crowd. Humbly so, I like to fancy myself as a Seeker !!

View embedded media

I am 70 years old and have been to innumerable concerts ... THE WHO in Riverbend Coliseum on 12/08/75 still remains, far and away, the best concert I ever saw. This was the show there before the later tour when the tragedy occurred ...

Thanks for the reply ... and keep on seeking !!

Back at you man. Thanks for starting an interesting thread.

 

[chroix]

It’s a heavy one to wrap your head around but doesn’t suicide kind of prove free will?

 

[Freetaxreturn]

The brotherhood of assassins will always protect the Apple of Eden which contains the genetic code of free will and will never be relinquished from the Spanish conquistadors 🍺📿🙏🏽 they hold the apple and the key to free will

 

[megablue]

 

[Elbridge]

This is certainly one of the better topics in the Paddock in a while. You guys responding are much deeper thinkers than me. I always thought the meaning of free will was the ability to make an independent decision regardless of the situation and that sometimes that decision may be only a belief and not an action.

 

[megablue]

This is certainly one of the better topics in the Paddock in a while. You guys responding are much deeper thinkers than me. I always thought the meaning of free will was the ability to make an independent decision regardless of the situation and that sometimes that decision may be only a belief and not an action.

Free will | Definition, Determinism, & Facts

Free will, in humans, the power to make decisions or perform actions independently of any prior event or state of the universe. Arguments for free will are based on the common assumption of individual moral responsibility, among other considerations. Free will is denied by some proponents of...

www.britannica.com

Free will - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Free Will

Free will is the idea that humans have the ability to make their own choices and determine their own fates. Is a person’s will free, or are people's lives in fact shaped by powers outside of their control? The question of free will has long challenged philosophers and religious thinkers, and...

www.psychologytoday.com

 

[LOL_Man]

This is certainly one of the better topics in the Paddock in a while. You guys responding are much deeper thinkers than me. I always thought the meaning of free will was the ability to make an independent decision regardless of the situation and that sometimes that decision may be only a belief and not an action.

That was the problem with one of the videos posted above as the guy basically said due to the physical laws of the universe man is incapable of free will but to me that is much too narrow of a definition as some of the later posts make clear. A man can be physically restrained in say a prison but still maintain free will in his mind and spirit. Pretty much the entire point of the movie The Shawshank Redemption and especially the music scene. A beautiful example of free will overcoming physical limitations IMO.

 

[megablue]