Former Cat Tom Heitz gets it
- Thread starter ukjenning44
- Start date
Now you all see why Sam made the statement he did at the UGA game. The old timers do NOT like the One-And-Done model Cal has allowed to DESTROY our program's legacy.
I have heard SEVERAL former Pre-Cal players state that they are tired of Cal.
I have heard SEVERAL former Pre-Cal players state that they are tired of Cal.
I've been tired of Cal. This season will determine if I was stupid or not.
Utmost respect for Sam and Tom.
They will forever be entitled to their opinion with respect to Kentucky Basketball.
However, the basketball world they grew up in no longer exists and hasn't for years.
Their opinions are irrelevant.
So no, Tom don't get it.
They will forever be entitled to their opinion with respect to Kentucky Basketball.
However, the basketball world they grew up in no longer exists and hasn't for years.
Their opinions are irrelevant.
So no, Tom don't get it.
I respect Tom but he's 63 so naturally he's going to prefer the "game" he grew up with and played in.
Tom was a career reserve who had no pro future but his nephew played in the NBA.
I wonder what his advise would have been if a OAD opportunity came up in his own family.
Tom was a career reserve who had no pro future but his nephew played in the NBA.
I wonder what his advise would have been if a OAD opportunity came up in his own family.
But that can’t be so. Just like a lot of fans that have lost interest and quit following. Several posters on here refuse to believe it and say it’s not so.
He can’t leave soon enough for me.
Coach Cal isn’t the creator of “one and done”, and he is on record not being a fan of that system. He could avoid “one and done” fatigue by intentionally recruiting less talented players. Passing up on a 5-star so we can land a 2 or 3 -star is a ridiculous notion in my opinion. Cal is working within the parameters of a system he did not create, I think it’s fair to critically look at all aspects of his coaching, but while most (including myself) seem to be exhausted by “one and done”, I’m glad our incoming classes are among the top-rated in the nation on a consistent basis. “One and done” is a direct result of landing the most talented players in the country.
Should our next coach guarantee us that he will intentionally recruit lesser talent so we can land 4-year players? Would that make fans happier? I don’t think that’s really what we want, even though we all get frustrated at times with the current system, and it’s understandable to vent about it.
No, he doesn’t get it. To deserve credit for being a legitimate criticism, Tom should provide a recipe for success. Is he saying he prefers we have Wheeler, Fredrick, Brooks, Hopkins, Allen, Collins and Ware this year over seven others ?? If so, then he should say it and address the reasons why they left. Do you not recruit the better players because they are simply too good and might go pro ?? Do you fill your roster with NIL transfer players every year, so constant turnover, just not to the NBA ?? Be specific … how do you win championships, Tom ?? What is the recipe ??
If he wants Cal gone, I get it, but how does the next coach handle the issue of winning championships … without significant annual turnover, regardless of whether to the NBA or elsewhere ?? How do you identify and recruit players who are not NBA-caliber and will stay here to help us win national championships ??
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Both things can be true here. You need to attract good talent AND win titles. And there’s nothing wrong with having NBA talent on your team. You’d be stupid not to.
However that isn’t the question. It’s how are they being utilized.
Sam and Tom can gripe about the current system but that’s the way it is in CBB these days. I’m sure they hate the Portal and NiL too. Yet that is current reality and the genie isn’t going back in. K utilized one and done. Nobody is griping about his success.
So the argument isn’t should UK abandon O&D or NiL (because that’s a stupid one) but should YK abandon Cal. And I think we will have our answer in a couple of months. One way or another.
However that isn’t the question. It’s how are they being utilized.
Sam and Tom can gripe about the current system but that’s the way it is in CBB these days. I’m sure they hate the Portal and NiL too. Yet that is current reality and the genie isn’t going back in. K utilized one and done. Nobody is griping about his success.
So the argument isn’t should UK abandon O&D or NiL (because that’s a stupid one) but should YK abandon Cal. And I think we will have our answer in a couple of months. One way or another.
It's not the current system and it's "parameters" (as another person put it) that is the problem. The problem is the CoAcH. Cal is not suitable for UK, he's proven that he can't truly succeed with the OAD or by recruiting lesser players. He's just simply not a very good coach. And he's not about UK, either.
Bingo
Neither does majority of our fanbase. The game you loved as a kid isn't coming back... Not the team you loved, the whole sport. It doesn't matter who likes players leaving early or doesn't. They will continue to leave because that is what players do in this era.
This is where there is such a generational divide. The overwhelming majority of those who have lived through Kentucky basketball with Coach Rupp forward prior to Calapari believe in University of Kentucky basketball and the name on the front of the jersey. Cal does not admittedly. He believes in OAD and getting kids to the NBA. Those that have only known the program with Cal think him and OADis the way to go. Neither group will ever concede. I am of the former group. I cherished Kentucky Basketball and growing up at Memorial Coliseum. I just hope that one day the program will be for UK and winning national championships again. 100% with Heitz.
We all miss the old days of college hoops. If you don’t…..well…..you’re odd. But I stopped whining about that a few years ago. It’s just the way it is, and if I’m going to get some joy out of college hoops I have to accept it.
Sam Bowie would have 100% been a OAD had that been the thing back in 1980.
There is not 1 fan, even Cal supporters, who would say they prefer billion dollar NBA contracts over NCAA success. But, as a previous poster said, this isn’t a one thing or the other. Cal’s most successful teams have been littered with OAD guys who made big time money in the NBA.
Wonder if he is willing to put his money where is mouth is and pony up for that buyout?
It's the same for all the troglodytes on here. You can regurgitate your dislike of Cal until you die, but if you really wanted him gone that bad, you would start ponying up for that buyout.
It's the same for all the troglodytes on here. You can regurgitate your dislike of Cal until you die, but if you really wanted him gone that bad, you would start ponying up for that buyout.
Excellent summary...
Every team in the NCAA is facing turnover now with the portal and NIL. There's another thread I just looked at saying top 10 teams have a 41% win rate on the road this season and that over 45 teams have been ranked already this year.
With NIL and the NBA contracts looming, the days for playing for the "name on the front of the jersey" are unfortunately over.
We should be wanting both. Players that go on to make millions and titles. When we had a team with future high level NBA guys (AD, Wall, Cousins, Fox, KAT) we had our best teams. Sometimes we made the Final 4, other times not.
Not happy with the results the last few years, or the SC game the other night. But we should want both NBA guys and titles. Since Cal has been here, only 3 teams have multiple titles.
This season has been more like the early Cal teams and is loaded with NBA guys. Hopefully Tuesday was a blip and not a blueprint.
It is not about OAD alone, it is about recruiting OADs that have one foot out of the door the whole time and do not have the skillset to contribute to a championship contender. There is zero rationale, with the transfer portal being what it is, to recruit players like Livingston, Boston, Bradshaw, etc....esp being deferential to groups like Klutch. Notable that the posts digging at Tom are not giving examples of OAD lead teams being in the F4 recently. The only one in the new era has been Duke and their OADs were grown men. Banchero was 250 lbs with outside skills. The blueprint should be a couple of elite OADs rated on skill not athleticism, 2 Thiero types, and a couple out of the portal. Then play the best players regardless.
We just had the experienced laden teams the last 2 years and that was a hell of a lot worse than what we have now.
Of the 3 players you just mentioned, only Boston was a bust. Livingston ended up being pretty good and most fans wanted him back. Bradshaw has played like 8 games so far, coming back from a broken foot, a surgery and 8 months off. He has been doing well all things considered. He was our best player on Tuesday night.
Prior to Tuesday, most people had a very good outlook of this team and the players. If one loss is causing this much of a meltdown, maybe you all should find a new hobby or get tougher. When did UK fans become so soft and entitled?
Your previous user name?
Since that was the best you could come up, I'll take as you ultimately agree.
Well..not so fast
1. I agree to the sentiment that basketball has changed and the quickness to get to the league isn’t just a UK thing. And a adept or die mentality has some merit
2. But a college coach should still focus on winning titles and not be enamored with nba all day (ie trying to imagine we are impactful on generational poverty programs).
Not coaching zone defense sets, prioritizing high rated high school kids with playing time, etc over just trying to win games for UK, staying away from kids dead set on nba but aren’t dominant in one season (very hard to determine I’ll concede), not blending in more multi year players with high end nba dudes, etc.
Cal does a ton that doesn’t put UK in best
Spot to win and it’s on him
One and Done is all about Cal and putting players in NBA. In the last 10 years more Championships have been won by non one and done schools than Cal has won in his entire career. One and Done has bought our Program and tradition to its knees. Of course Cal has no problem with taking a knee.
No, seriously, why do you feel the need to deflect from my intial post?
I don't. I only asked a question. I don't have any issue with your post or anything else. Why so defensive?
Sure you are! I only asked a question as well, and you seemed to take it hard enough that you felt the need to suggest I was previously banned. That seems pretty defensive to me.
So, why are you so defensive?
Cals whole system is busted. It seems that he recruits based solely upon rankings and does zero work to see if the recruits are actually worth a damn or not. Edwards, Boston, Skal, Whitney, Knox and the list goes on. They had zero fundamentals and it is obvious that he can't, or won't, teach them.
That's before we even get to the ones that just won't play at all. If you believe Cal then you can add Thiero to that list. That is not okay.
College hoops has seen growing parity year after year. The staff needs to become much more judicious in how they choose recruits. No more "super talents" that are "super projects". They need players like Sheppard who have some grasp of actual fundamentals. Start looking at places that teach during high school instead of just playing street ball.
He can call his new system, Two and Done.
That's before we even get to the ones that just won't play at all. If you believe Cal then you can add Thiero to that list. That is not okay.
College hoops has seen growing parity year after year. The staff needs to become much more judicious in how they choose recruits. No more "super talents" that are "super projects". They need players like Sheppard who have some grasp of actual fundamentals. Start looking at places that teach during high school instead of just playing street ball.
He can call his new system, Two and Done.
True that Cal could recruit only four year players and the result might likely be the same. It seems to be more about type of recruit he brings and the system he asks them to play in. The final four teams from last year looked a lot more like South Carolina and Texas A and M than they did the CATS teams of the past 8 years. And there is no question that his main pitch to the younger players is that he can get you to the league in one year. So our players never have a chance to develop their bodies into the full grown men we see on other teams they are asked to compete against. The transfer portal has magnified this X 4 !
Tom doesn’t mention OAD in his post on Twitter. The timing of it came after our loss the other night to SC.
I believe he is trying to get the point across that Cal will play whichever players every year with the most stars next to their name.
He does this to the detriment of UK’s success at winning.
This year he is determined to play Edwards no matter if it costs us winning.
He also doesn’t play zone because they don’t play it in the NBA.
Cal puts the NBA over KY basketball.
I believe he is trying to get the point across that Cal will play whichever players every year with the most stars next to their name.
He does this to the detriment of UK’s success at winning.
This year he is determined to play Edwards no matter if it costs us winning.
He also doesn’t play zone because they don’t play it in the NBA.
Cal puts the NBA over KY basketball.
You're getting joy out of the past 5 years? You're better than me.
lol.... you don't bother me partner...you are probably a real nice guy.. I was just curious. You don't have to answer if it makes you uncomfortable.
It seems odd that I don't bother you, yet you have convinced yourself I am someone else and keep asking me about it. Something about that just doesn't track.
How can something non-existent make me uncomfortable?
And there it is, regular as clockwork. The Cal shieldbearers show up and blast former UK players. Classy as usual.
His opinion is at least more valuable than yours - what position did you play at UK and how many minutes?
Interesting, you didn't answer the question though. Leadbelly?
So you favor "dudes in the NBA" over chips. Got it!
I've never understood the point of having a team allegiance and not valuing titles over everything else. Makes no sense to me. Why even decide a champion. Just watch games, not have a tourney and cheer for draft night. None of those things requires you to be a Kentucky fan. You can just be a basketball fan. What an absurd waste of time.
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