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Former Cat Tom Heitz gets it

Are you a fan of OAD? Why don't you just sack up and state your own opinion instead of cutting into other people? I get it, it's easier to pick apart others instead of having to defend your own position, but it's lazy and predictable.
Absolutely.
I love watching the hi end talent.
I like watching Monk go for 45 or Knight popping the jersey as his sends overall #1 home.
Davis and MKG speaks for itself.
Cal took the talent to a different level.
Never want to go back to Tubbyball.
In one season went went from Micheal Porter to John Wall.
 
The question isn't about the era of basketball or the game changing. The question is; what is the priority?? Getting guys into the league, OR doing what it takes to win basketball games for Kentucky? Most of us are sick and tired of Cal's priorities. His priorities don't align with the fans'. Do what you're payed handsomely to do, Cal.
 
Absolutely.
I love watching the hi end talent.
I like watching Monk go for 45 or Knight popping the jersey as his sends overall #1 home.
Davis and MKG speaks for itself.
Cal took the talent to a different level.
Never want to go back to Tubbyball.
In one season went went from Micheal Porter to John Wall.
Cool...so you're a basketball fan that prefers to watch "Wow" players like Zion Williamson vs. Karl Anthony Towns/Paskal Siakim...better players that win more.

We get it....but winning games and titles are what some turn on UK games for and it's not a Tubby vs. Cal....maybe you can get to a Rick Pitino model that wins more.
 
The question isn't about the era of basketball or the game changing. The question is; what is the priority?? Getting guys into the league, OR doing what it takes to win basketball games for Kentucky? Most of us are sick and tired of Cal's priorities. His priorities don't align with the fans'. Do what you're payed handsomely to do, Cal.
How exactly does Cal "get a guy into the "league "?
He's not helping Justin any.
Justin's stock would be higher if he never played a minute this season.
Our star players played themselves into the league
They earned their draft position and UK benefited from them being here.
There's nothing Cal can do to fool the NBA scouts.
 
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The question isn't about the era of basketball or the game changing. The question is; what is the priority?? Getting guys into the league, OR doing what it takes to win basketball games for Kentucky? Most of us are sick and tired of Cal's priorities. His priorities don't align with the fans'. Do what you're payed handsomely to do, Cal.
This. You've recognized the simple (and only) point Heinz actually made, while it seems others have gone off on red-herring tangents about OADs, the difference in the game when he played vs now, etc.
 
And we still get out-rebounded with three (3) 7-foot players and a bunch of athletic 2's and 3's? WTF
Have you ever noticed that Cal is ALWAYS trying to "figure it out". He never seems to get it done each year and then starting over with an entirely new roster in the fall. It's narcissistic lunacy designed to feed an ego that is just damned tiring.
 
Cool...so you're a basketball fan that prefers to watch "Wow" players like Zion Williamson vs. Karl Anthony Towns/Paskal Siakim...better players that win more.

We get it....but winning games and titles are what some turn on UK games for and it's not a Tubby vs. Cal....maybe you can get to a Rick Pitino model that wins more.
I love Rick but he cut the nets down with a Cal like roster.
He had a hell of a squad but he couldn't beat the Fab Five because guys like Ford, Martinez, Prickett weren't enough help for Mash against the elite talent of Mich.
Couldn't beat UNC in 95 because Stack and Sheed were the best two players on the court.
Showing a senior to be in Rhodes the door for a freshman phenom in Mercer was very much a Cal like move.

Why would I like to watch Zion over Karl? Did you see Karl the other night?
 
I've been done with Cal. Completely ruining our traditions, unacceptable losses to mediocre teams that Kentucky shouldn't lose to, squandering more talent than we've ever seen.....the list goes on and on. It's exhausting. Just fvxking go already.
 
name one top recruit at any school that did not have one foot out the door
Flipowski.

I just don't think overall the OAD guys today are quite as bought in as 8-10 years ago plus a handful of top ones are going straight to the GL which has diluted the top end. We had one (Dragon) quit a few games into the year. Duke had a guy (J Johnson) quit mid-year. Added to that, they are going against Covid guys that 1-2 years older than we saw 10 years ago.

I am not against OADs. I just think you have to be selective and find the right fits.
 
Utmost respect for Sam and Tom.

They will forever be entitled to their opinion with respect to Kentucky Basketball.

However, the basketball world they grew up in no longer exists and hasn't for years.

Their opinions are irrelevant.

So no, Tom don't get it.
I bet you’re under 40 and think anyone older than you with any opinion is irrelevant. I have to ask how come this generation trashes everything they touch?
 
Now you all see why Sam made the statement he did at the UGA game. The old timers do NOT like the One-And-Done model Cal has allowed to DESTROY our program's legacy.

I have heard SEVERAL former Pre-Cal players state that they are tired of Cal.
that is why the former players need to be associated with the program
keep them around for the younger generations to understand what UK tradition is about
 
Utmost respect for Sam and Tom.

They will forever be entitled to their opinion with respect to Kentucky Basketball.

However, the basketball world they grew up in no longer exists and hasn't for years.

Their opinions are irrelevant.

So no, Tom don't get it.
you are correct it has changed & not for the better imo
it is now pro collegians that want to get to the NBA pro game
 
Coach Cal isn’t the creator of “one and done”, and he is on record not being a fan of that system. He could avoid “one and done” fatigue by intentionally recruiting less talented players. Passing up on a 5-star so we can land a 2 or 3 -star is a ridiculous notion in my opinion. Cal is working within the parameters of a system he did not create, I think it’s fair to critically look at all aspects of his coaching, but while most (including myself) seem to be exhausted by “one and done”, I’m glad our incoming classes are among the top-rated in the nation on a consistent basis. “One and done” is a direct result of landing the most talented players in the country.

Should our next coach guarantee us that he will intentionally recruit lesser talent so we can land 4-year players? Would that make fans happier? I don’t think that’s really what we want, even though we all get frustrated at times with the current system, and it’s understandable to vent about it.
ccc says one thing & does just the opposite. he can not tell the truth & worries about nothing but putting someone in the NBA. He may land the 5* recruit, but they often times play like a 2 or 3* under his guidance.
 
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Are some of you really this dense?
Cal puts getting players drafted over winning games and championships at UK!
If he could do both it would be great. He lucked into it one time.
It’s time to get back to winning games and championships. We’re just a NBA farm team at this point.
NCAA championships......he can't even win the SEC or the SEC tournament
 
His first 6 recruiting classes were money.
Wall, Cousins,Knight,Jones MKG, Davis, Randle,Towns.
Replace those guys with
Avery Bradley
Derrick Favors
Josh Selby
CJ Leslie
Quincy Miller
Cody Zeller
Andrew Wiggins
Jahlil Okafor.

Group 2 is a hell of a recruiting haul but no way it would have produced the wins and FF's and Title.
Group 1 wasn't just 5 stars recruits, they were the right 5 star recruits.

Last 6 years has been opposite.
Highly rated overall classes but missing the true difference makers.
You guys still do not get it. You DO NOT have to have the top 5 stars at every position if you have the right coaching. Schools win championships every year with less talent than we have. They DEVELOP and coach players up.

What is a more logical conclusion(s).
1. Our classes just have been overrated for 6 + years straight?
or.
2. Our coaching is overrated?

1. We have had 30 + players in a roll suck?
or
2. One common denominator sucks?

1. You need a freakish once in decades level of talent like 2009-10 to win?
or
2. Maybe the coaching just isn't up to par?
 
You beat me to it
Good one. Another way to say it is he only had 102 more rebounds than I did and I never seen the court.

I respect him as a former player. I remember watching him as a kid. However, I feel like he is kind of seeking attention with this ice cold take. It is his right but it is missing the point. Cals problem is not his obsession with draft night. It is more of his approach to coaching the team (e.g. defense, line ups, etc).
 
Making bank in the NBA is wonderful and happy for those players. But most UK fans want NCAAT banners hanging in Rupp. There’s no denying Cal has underachieved with the amount of talent he’s had to work with. Rughead and the Cheathawks was also in the discussion but he did get a 2nd natty.
 
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Of course, I can't say who will and who won't stay either - or for how long. But that's always been the case to some degree, right? Although it's definitely got to be a bigger issue now. Still, everybody is playing by the same rules when it comes to building rosters - and others seem to be able to create contending continuity. And would you agree with me that UK doesn't have to take a backseat to any program in CBB when it comes to attracting and keeping players?
Not trying to argue, I like your thoughts, but if we can attract and keep players, why do so many leave ??
 
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Not trying to argue, I like your thoughts, but if we can attract and keep players, why do so many leave ??
No, didn’t take it that way at all. With the respectful way you discuss things, feel free to question any opinion I’ve got. Cause I’ll be wrong, or at least fail to take everything into account, plenty. I’ll gladly consider and respect any thoughts or contrary opinion you or others here have. I just like sharing basketball thoughts – especially regarding UK - with the most knowledgeable CBB fans in existence. My only caveat is I'm not interested in engaging in the type of ignorant and childish bickering that all too often infests social media.

As to why players leave UK before graduating, I figure it’s a lot of the same reasons they do at other schools, e.g., feel they're not getting enough playing time, etc. I do think many of the OADs that come to UK seem to have more of a “you have to be one-and-done or you’re a failure” mentality. I definitely don't like that. But if a player's goal is to get to the NBA as quickly as possible regardless, then I don't have any problem with that. It's his life and his goals. But I think the coach at UK needs to take things like that into account when deciding whether a player is the best fit for a particular year or team.
 
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I believe the fans are united - NCAA championships are most important. He needs to ask the head coach the same question. Unfortunately, you may get a different response.
 
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Utmost respect for Sam and Tom.

They will forever be entitled to their opinion with respect to Kentucky Basketball.

However, the basketball world they grew up in no longer exists and hasn't for years.

Their opinions are irrelevant.

So no, Tom don't get it.
Apparently you didn’t understand what he was saying. Geez. Cal does not recruit or coach to achieve NCAA titles. That is well known. How come you don’t know that?
 
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Does anyone off the top of their head know what Calipari’s buyout is? I sure ain’t going to look it up or try to. I really want to like this team and I do like most of the players, but Calipari is heading down the same road and we will lose to somebody like Virginia or Northwestern in the second round. It is what it is. I guess you could say I have no confidence in his ability to lead us anywhere far. This group should win it all, but we will once again be very disappointed I’m afraid.
 
Guess you are the one who doesn’t get it then, unless you are saying that more players in the NBA that played at UK is more important to you as a fan than KY actually having success and winning titles. And no the two don’t go hand in hand. How many players are now playing professionally from 2016-2023 that we never even made the final four?

You tried reading too much into Toms simple question when his question was really that simple.
Oh I definitely understand what he was saying
But the thing is, it doesn't matter what any of us want. It's a dif sport now days.
That isn't a real question because it doesn't have an answer on both sides. None of us give a crap about NBA contracts. He was taking a shot at cal or just asks dumb questions one.
 
This clown might be from the pot pie family. No telling how many other user names he has had.
So strange that this is a thing. People with multiple accounts and what not. I don't have time to keep up with that and figuring out who is who and the like. These people with separate internet lives and personas exhibit mystifying, narcissistic behavior. They need to seek some help. I'll let you guys do the digging.
 
You guys still do not get it. You DO NOT have to have the top 5 stars at every position if you have the right coaching. Schools win championships every year with less talent than we have. They DEVELOP and coach players up.

What is a more logical conclusion(s).
1. Our classes just have been overrated for 6 + years straight?
or.
2. Our coaching is overrated?

1. We have had 30 + players in a roll suck?
or
2. One common denominator sucks?

1. You need a freakish once in decades level of talent like 2009-10 to win?
or
2. Maybe the coaching just isn't up to par?

^^^ THIS
 
Absolutely.
I love watching the hi end talent.
I like watching Monk go for 45 or Knight popping the jersey as his sends overall #1 home.
Davis and MKG speaks for itself.
Cal took the talent to a different level.
Never want to go back to Tubbyball.
In one season went went from Micheal Porter to John Wall.
False choice fallacy. Most NCAA champion teams aren't OAD. I can only think of three, Carmelo's Syracuse team, Okafor's Duke team, and UK 2012. But we don't have to choose between all freshmen OR Michael Porter. That's a disingenuous argument and very lazy.
 
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False choice fallacy. Most NCAA champion teams aren't OAD. I can only think of three, Carmelo's Syracuse team, Okafor's Duke team, and UK 2012. But we don't have to choose between all freshmen OR Michael Porter. That's a disingenuous argument and very lazy.
Speaking of Porter, the cleaning of the mess BCG made was unpresidented in CBB.
We won 128 games in the first 3 years post BCG.
Three EE, two FF and one Title.
When have UK fans ever been patient.
That's why Cal was the only coach for the job.
If Tubby had taken over for BCG and a depleted roster, how long would it have taken with his slow and steady method.
You could also throw a Rick Barnes in that scenario.
He would have got the program back but it wouldn't have been fast.
400 wins is 400 wins anyway you look at it.
 
Speaking of Porter, the cleaning of the mess BCG made was unpresidented in CBB.
We won 128 games in the first 3 years post BCG.
Three EE, two FF and one Title.
When have UK fans ever been patient.
That's why Cal was the only coach for the job.
If Tubby had taken over for BCG and a depleted roster, how long would it have taken with his slow and steady method.
You could also throw a Rick Barnes in that scenario.
He would have got the program back but it wouldn't have been fast.
400 wins is 400 wins anyway you look at it.
Stop changing the subject just because your main point blew apart. OAD isn't a long term solution and it's not an effective way to build or maintain a program, and you know it.
 
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Stop changing the subject just because your main point blew apart. OAD isn't a long term solution and it's not an effective way to build or maintain a program, and you know it.
It got us out of the hole.
Got us 128 wins and a title.
Where do we rank in wins during his time here?
 
Changing the subject again. Long term solution?
Solution to what? Winning a title?
My opinion a coaching change doesn't increase our chances to win a title in the next 2-3 years.
A change in recruiting philosophy doesn't increase our chances.
Cal already recruits the portal.
Grady, Reeves, and Mitchell were among the best available transfers the last 3 cycles.
As far as OAD's, I'd rather Dybanasta being playing for us than against us.
I hope we never have less than a #2 class
If you are advocating for a complete shift in MO for the basketball program, you better be prepared to be patient.
I don't see a " lightning in a bottle" coach out there.
 
I'm going to keep saying it. Cal's top priority and focus isn't to make UK the most successful basketball team and to win college basketball games. He's told us that.

Once you accept it, you stop spending all your time wondering about starting lineups, rotations, minutes played, style of basketball, adjustments, etc.

It doesn't make it less maddening, but he's told us what he's doing. His goal is really not to be a good college basketball coach. It's to put guys in the league.
 
Coach Cal isn’t the creator of “one and done”, and he is on record not being a fan of that system. He could avoid “one and done” fatigue by intentionally recruiting less talented players. Passing up on a 5-star so we can land a 2 or 3 -star is a ridiculous notion in my opinion. Cal is working within the parameters of a system he did not create, I think it’s fair to critically look at all aspects of his coaching, but while most (including myself) seem to be exhausted by “one and done”, I’m glad our incoming classes are among the top-rated in the nation on a consistent basis. “One and done” is a direct result of landing the most talented players in the country.

Should our next coach guarantee us that he will intentionally recruit lesser talent so we can land 4-year players? Would that make fans happier? I don’t think that’s really what we want, even though we all get frustrated at times with the current system, and it’s understandable to vent about it.
So its either one and done players looking to leave after one year hell or high water ...or 3 stars......... so players ranked 11th- 4 stars arent a thing? Cal's methods havent produced a 1 seed or a final four ..will be 9 years after this season. you have zero facts to come at this as if his system works anymore.
 
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