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For those questioning Mark Pope

CHAMPCAT11

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Jun 16, 2009
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I get the passion of BBN but questioning / doubting Mark Pope makes zero sense. Some of these posts aren’t giving him near enough credit. He was a Rhodes Scholar candidate, a three year med student, captain of arguably one of the best NCAA Championship teams in history, and played for one of the brightest, toughest college coaches of all time (bad human, great coach). You don’t have to like Mark Pope but to question his pedigree and ability to coach is silly. We have things to do to get ready for next year but the guy driving the boat is as capable as anyone in the business.
 
Just because your smart... A former player.. Or a host of other things... Does not mean you will be a great coach... Know how to modivate people... There where a few times.. I think the moment got to big for him... And was not 100% sure how to get his team out of it... One game... He shows zone for the first 10 seconds... Then goes back to man 2 man. Worked great... Never saw it again... Injuries forced his hand... But he had some strange sub patterns... He is still growing as a coach... I still want him here... But there is also room to want him.. And still question some of his choices.
 
I agree with OP but loving Kentucky and Pope should not prohibit us from exchanging ideas even when there could be critical of Pope.

His doing a good job. In my opinion, he will need few year to build the program. Of course , he is
learning on the job. He is smart guy so he will adjust and grow into the job and get better at it,

It’s not an easy job, the framework of college basketball is changing, from conference alignment, NIL, transfer portal and probably new rules regarding revenue sharing that will come. Many of the hall of fame coaches didn’t have the stomach to put up with this changing environment and retired.

Pope is at the right age, early 50s, to have the energy to deal with all these changes but also the brain and life experience to navigate them successfully.

My only concern is if he is perhaps unsure about his job security and over promises which could turn against him . He needs time . Let’s give him few years to build the program and don’t expect titles every year cause it’s not realistic.
 
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For a guy so smart, so driven, and so methodical, the players CONSTANTLY slept through the first halves of games seemingly without a plan of action. His pulling guys who were winning games, made no sense. A penchant for moving away from what was working was maddening. There is a time for tinkering, and a time for sticking to the assignment. He'll grow from this.
 
For a guy so smart, so driven, and so methodical, the players CONSTANTLY slept through the first halves of games seemingly without a plan of action. His pulling guys who were winning games, made no sense. A penchant for moving away from what was working was maddening. There is a time for tinkering, and a time for sticking to the assignment. He'll grow from this.
I agree there are many things he has done right but also some he needs to improve, including keeping players accountable and demanding constant excellence or at least the perception of it.
 
Just because your smart... A former player.. Or a host of other things... Does not mean you will be a great coach... Know how to modivate people... There where a few times.. I think the moment got to big for him... And was not 100% sure how to get his team out of it... One game... He shows zone for the first 10 seconds... Then goes back to man 2 man. Worked great... Never saw it again... Injuries forced his hand... But he had some strange sub patterns... He is still growing as a coach... I still want him here... But there is also room to want him.. And still question some of his choices.
Are you saying Pope isn’t a great “modivater”
 
I would argue conditioning was not a forte of this year team. Also, we didn’t have the killing instinct to close a game when the team developed a lead.

Since we had so many injuries and changes in starting 5. And substation patterns is hard to assess how effective was coaching staff on the granular details.

I am hoping that they kept track and have good records of the methods of training , substitution patterns, game preparation, players development plans and assessment at end of season so they internally can see what they need to change and improve and evaluate staff role assignments and their effectiveness , etc.

K was very methodical on keeping notes on everything they did. He trained Scheyer the same way , who is running the Duke current team using most of K schemes and methods.
 
I read that Rupp was extremely organized and dedicated to his players to the point of even making sure they had long enough beds and he would tucked them in the bed.
Pope has the same mentality of carrying of his players , considering how he made sure that Amari got picked up from airport when recruited him and that he had his favorite cereals before the Illinois game.
 
I read that Rupp was extremely organized and dedicated to his players to the point of even making sure they had long enough beds and he would tucked them in the bed.
Pope has the same mentality of carrying of his players , considering how he made sure that Amari got picked up from airport when recruited him and that he had his favorite cereals before the Illinois game.
If Pope starts tucking the players into bed, he won’t be the coach for long 😂
 
I agree with OP but loving Kentucky and Pope should not prohibit us from exchanging ideas even when there could be critical of Pope.

His doing a good job. In my opinion, he will need few year to build the program. Of course , his learning on the job. He is smart guy so he will adjust and grow into the job and get better at it,

It’s not an easy job, the framework of college basketball is changing, from conference alignment, NIL, transfer portal and probably new rules regarding revenue sharing that will come. Many of the hall of fame coaches didn’t have the stomach to put up with this changing environment and retired.

Pope is at the right age, early 50s, to have the energy to deal with all these changes but also the brain and life experience to navigate them successfully.

My only concern is if he is perhaps unsure about his job security and over promises which could turn against him . He needs time . Let’s give him few years to build the program and don’t expect titles every year cause it’s not realistic.
He shouldn't be concerned about job security.
1 He just went to the S16
2 His AD is Mitch Barnhart.
 
I agree there are many things he has done right but also some he needs to improve, including keeping players accountable and demanding constant excellence or at least the perception of it.
No disrespect, but comments like this is why I take about 5% of the coach criticism on this board seriously. How in the hell do you know he doesn't hold players accountable? Are you at practice or team meetings? Saying he needs to improve on something you literally have zero insight on is kind of ridiculous to me.

This entire thread is full of just conjecture about what people think Pope does or does not do.
 
For a guy so smart, so driven, and so methodical, the players CONSTANTLY slept through the first halves of games seemingly without a plan of action. His pulling guys who were winning games, made no sense. A penchant for moving away from what was working was maddening. There is a time for tinkering, and a time for sticking to the assignment. He'll grow from this.
Completely agree!!! We had many ugly/slow starts to games and the ones that we did start well he would pull 3-4 starters 3.5 mins into the game. It was a lock that no matter who was rolling early or getting hot they would be pulled before the first tv timeout??? That was maddening to me!!!
The main concern I have though is the motivation factor. No matter what anyone says, my eyes weren’t lying to me when I saw us giving less than 100% in the UT game Friday night. This happened at least a handful of times this year. I think Pope is going to no doubt have to find it within himself to be able to be more of a disciplinarian/motivator going forward. I do also want to say that I think he’s going to get it done! I LOVE Coach Pope and want him to succeed and lead us back to the very top, where we belong!!! GO BIG BLUE!
 
My only real criticism of the coaching I might have was he seemed to be married to his analytics about when players should be subbed out a couple of times he took out the guy with a hot hand and it completely changed the rhythm of the offense for the worse. But he knows em better than I so I never made a big issue of it.
 
Might as well just accept that many will continue to question him until he wins a title. I’ve gone back and forth all year on whether or not I think he can get it done here. There’s times he does things that make him seem like one of the best in the country but he’s also had plenty of moments that make him look about like Cal here the last 6-7 years.

He’s got two areas that HAVE to improve for us to get what we want. One is recruiting and the other is playing consistent. His teams drop WAY too many games to teams they shouldn’t. That alone doesn’t bode well for winning 6 straight in March. Recruiting has been good, not great. He’s yet to show he can land a top 10 talent both in high school and in the portal.

He shouldn't be concerned about job security.
1 He just went to the S16
2 His AD is Mitch Barnhart.
Sad, but true. I’m sure that S16 just made Mitch want to extend him another decade and give him a $50m buyout on top of it.
 
Since when did Pope become infallible that no one can question him?

The fact that the players came out for a Sweet 16 game against Tennessee with the energy of a mid December game against Coppin State is very alarming imo because it’s not the first time that it’s happened.
No one is saying Pope can't be criticized, but people just make assumptions and act like they're facts that should be criticized.

There's no doubt we came out slow against UT, but that was more of UT playing at a high level than us not showing up. I find it hard to believe that our roster of guys who were almost all playing their last game in college weren't adequately motivated. Sometimes you just get punched in the mouth from the jump, that's basketball.

Mich. St. came out slow against Auburn, Bama came out slow against Duke, UT played absolutely horrible at the start against Houston. Those weren't all because the coach hadn't adequately motivated his team.

At the end of the day players are responsible for their own play. I find that this board gives coaches way too much blame when players don't play well and a bit too much credit when they do.

As an example, Houston called a TO to set up a final play against Purdue. The shot they ended up taking was a contested fadeaway mid range jumper. There's no way that's what Sampson drew up. Purdue most likely shut down the first and second options and the guy with the ball did all he could to get a shot off. It's about the same quality of shot Wagner took against Texas Tech when Cal got crucified for not taking a TO. On the inbound after that where Houston had the easy layup Sampson said it was an option play and the inbounder had 3 options. He made the right read for an easy layup. He makes the wrong read and Sampson looks like he can't draw up an inbound play.

If indeed our guys truly weren't motivated for their potential last game in college against a conference rival in the Sweet 16 that's on them. I'm not sure what a coach can say to change that since it's about the easiest possible scenario to be motivated for. I often think the "our guys don't have energy" talking point is just an excuse people use when they can't actually diagnose why they're team is losing.
 
I haven’t seen ONE single person question Pope as a coach, or as a great person, however, there are many of us questioning UK’s position in the world of high stakes NIL deals!

And that’s a legitimate concern that will answer its own question in due time! Until then, can we all refrain from the mental gymnastics and cleverly crafted word salads that some are coming up with as gas lighting excuses?
 
I haven’t seen ONE single person question Pope as a coach, or as a great person, however, there are many of us questioning UK’s position in the world of high stakes NIL deals!

And that’s a legitimate concern that will answer its own question in due time! Until then, can we all refrain from the mental gymnastics and cleverly crafted word salads that some are coming up with as gas lighting excuses?
True. Makes me a bit concerned that Barnhart might be too close to negotiations of NIL deals. I can see him screwing up getting the right players as he’s a control freak.
 
No one is saying Pope can't be criticized, but people just make assumptions and act like they're facts that should be criticized.

There's no doubt we came out slow against UT, but that was more of UT playing at a high level than us not showing up. I find it hard to believe that our roster of guys who were almost all playing their last game in college weren't adequately motivated. Sometimes you just get punched in the mouth from the jump, that's basketball.

Mich. St. came out slow against Auburn, Bama came out slow against Duke, UT played absolutely horrible at the start against Houston. Those weren't all because the coach hadn't adequately motivated his team.

At the end of the day players are responsible for their own play. I find that this board gives coaches way too much blame when players don't play well and a bit too much credit when they do.

As an example, Houston called a TO to set up a final play against Purdue. The shot they ended up taking was a contested fadeaway mid range jumper. There's no way that's what Sampson drew up. Purdue most likely shut down the first and second options and the guy with the ball did all he could to get a shot off. It's about the same quality of shot Wagner took against Texas Tech when Cal got crucified for not taking a TO. On the inbound after that where Houston had the easy layup Sampson said it was an option play and the inbounder had 3 options. He made the right read for an easy layup. He makes the wrong read and Sampson looks like he can't draw up an inbound play.

If indeed our guys truly weren't motivated for their potential last game in college against a conference rival in the Sweet 16 that's on them. I'm not sure what a coach can say to change that since it's about the easiest possible scenario to be motivated for. I often think the "our guys don't have energy" talking point is just an excuse people use when they can't actually diagnose why they're team is losing.
Disagree. No one who watch Friday night thought UK was ready to play from the start. They weren’t ready to match the intensity and physicality of Tennessee, and that responsibility falls on the coach.

Missing shots is one thing. Going through the motions is another, and it was quite apparent. It wouldn’t have been that galling if it was the first time that it happened. But there were multiple games where they weren’t ready to play.
 
It wouldn’t have been that galling if it was the first time that it happened. But there were multiple games where they weren’t ready to play.
I would bet my 401k on the fact that if you watched every single game of any other team in the country you'd say the same thing at the end of the season. I think people here have a tendency to assume UK problems are specifically UK problems and not just things that happen regularly over the course of the basketball season.
 
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With the big wins and the final result (first S16 in half a decade), Pope's methods really can't be questioned yet. Not saying this because I worship him (I didn't even want him as coach to start) but because we need to see what is actually a trend before we can make any assessment.

How many times do we keep forgetting that most of these guys were 4th-6th year guys who were incapable of developing NBA or even SEC-level athleticism and strength and thus were still stuck in college? Many of them were smart, skilled, and fun to watch basketball players, but that all goes out the window when you are banging against the guy who has muscles and genetics you will never have for 30 min+. Carr, Jackson, and Amari were definitely out of their league from a strength and hops perspective. Noah, Perry, Almonor, and Kriisa weren't in the conversation to begin with. Chandler and Garrison are the ones who could develop it throughout their careers but it remains to be seen and wasn't there yet and they still need to do a lot of mental growing as well.

Oweh and Butler belong on this stage from an athletic perspective and it generally showed (when peoples arms weren't falling off), they carried us in many key games.

By the end of the year we had lost 2 of our top 7, Butler was playing his ass off hurt, and Carr and Williams both had bad backs. When competition ratcheted up, you really couldn't count on our sub crew to give us anything either.

Pope knows all of this, he probably knows all of this way better than us, and he knows how some of his already physically disadvantaged guys play when they are tired. That probably has a lot to do with it. Sure you can try to play Williams 35 minutes, but it doesn't mean you will be happy with the result.

If we get a fully remade, younger, and more athletic squad next year and still see the same issues with sub patterns, random turnovers, and inability to rebound in key moments, then the criticism is fair. But none of these things are things I am losing sleep over now.

Coaching matters, in fact if it didn't we wouldn't have been able to beat Duke, Gonzaga, UF, or UT to name a few. But the pieces you are working with matter a lot too. If you take away the name UT and the fact that we beat them twice at the beginning of the year, against a team of that caliber, them being fully healthy, would you really be giving us a real shot at winning that game with the broken down state of our squad by year's end? UT is the kind of team that if they get up 10, you probably aren't coming back given the way they play. They came out hot, we didn't and our window for being competitive with a really bad hand of injuries and lack of talent meant the odds were pretty dire from about 10 minutes in.

Doesn't change the fact that a love this coach, the players we had no matter their limitations, and feel we were a FF/E8 team without all the injuries. On to next year.
 
With the big wins and the final result (first S16 in half a decade), Pope's methods really can't be questioned yet. Not saying this because I worship him (I didn't even want him as coach to start) but because we need to see what is actually a trend before we can make any assessment.

How many times do we keep forgetting that most of these guys were 4th-6th year guys who were incapable of developing NBA or even SEC-level athleticism and strength and thus were still stuck in college? Many of them were smart, skilled, and fun to watch basketball players, but that all goes out the window when you are banging against the guy who has muscles and genetics you will never have for 30 min+. Carr, Jackson, and Amari were definitely out of their league from a strength and hops perspective. Noah, Perry, Almonor, and Kriisa weren't in the conversation to begin with. Chandler and Garrison are the ones who could develop it throughout their careers but it remains to be seen and wasn't there yet and they still need to do a lot of mental growing as well.

Oweh and Butler belong on this stage from an athletic perspective and it generally showed (when peoples arms weren't falling off), they carried us in many key games.

By the end of the year we had lost 2 of our top 7, Butler was playing his ass off hurt, and Carr and Williams both had bad backs. When competition ratcheted up, you really couldn't count on our sub crew to give us anything either.

Pope knows all of this, he probably knows all of this way better than us, and he knows how some of his already physically disadvantaged guys play when they are tired. That probably has a lot to do with it. Sure you can try to play Williams 35 minutes, but it doesn't mean you will be happy with the result.

If we get a fully remade, younger, and more athletic squad next year and still see the same issues with sub patterns, random turnovers, and inability to rebound in key moments, then the criticism is fair. But none of these things are things I am losing sleep over now.

Coaching matters, in fact if it didn't we wouldn't have been able to beat Duke, Gonzaga, UF, or UT to name a few. But the pieces you are working with matter a lot too. If you take away the name UT and the fact that we beat them twice at the beginning of the year, against a team of that caliber, them being fully healthy, would you really be giving us a real shot at winning that game with the broken down state of our squad by year's end? UT is the kind of team that if they get up 10, you probably aren't coming back given the way they play. They came out hot, we didn't and our window for being competitive with a really bad hand of injuries and lack of talent meant the odds were pretty dire from about 10 minutes in.

Doesn't change the fact that a love this coach, the players we had no matter their limitations, and feel we were a FF/E8 team without all the injuries. On to next year.
GREAT POST!!!! And really hard to argue with any of the great points that you stated. It’s so damn hard to be patient and not to armchair qb these days. I KNOW that I’m 1000% guilty of it.
 
Since when did Pope become infallible that no one can question him?

The fact that the players came out for a Sweet 16 game against Tennessee with the energy of a mid December game against Coppin State is very alarming imo because it’s not the first time that it’s happened.
Interesting. Which college did you coach at and what was your record?
Better yet, where were you in the locker room? Which player are you in the huddle?

Or are just sitting on your butt whining?
 
I'm not really questioning the coach.. I'm more questioning the Athletic Department, the college, boosters, and those running the basketball program. And I wouldn't really say "questioning", as much as it is "making sure they understand what it takes to succeed in this new era of college basketball".
 
You don't have to be a rocket scientist to be a great coach. Just listen to Kelvin Sampson talk sometime.
You also don't have to have been somebody who was great at playing the game to be a great coach. That trope most often gets used by guys...who were great at playing the game.
 
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There are those here that do criticize the coach. However, I have been here long enough to know that not all of those among us are BBN to the bone. Some come from other fan bases. There are things he has done during the games that cause me to question. Overall he checks a lot of boxes and with his own system in place with his players, he will make us very proud. Most everyone here has patience and will back him through the process. Those that have no patience, have never made a mistake in their minds. I for one can't wait for next year.
 
I get the passion of BBN but questioning / doubting Mark Pope makes zero sense. Some of these posts aren’t giving him near enough credit. He was a Rhodes Scholar candidate, a three year med student, captain of arguably one of the best NCAA Championship teams in history, and played for one of the brightest, toughest college coaches of all time (bad human, great coach). You don’t have to like Mark Pope but to question his pedigree and ability to coach is silly. We have things to do to get ready for next year but the guy driving the boat is as capable as anyone in the business.
Making it to the Sweet 16 his first year with a hobbled roster is pretty impressive

Now he needs to take the next step
 
Interesting. Which college did you coach at and what was your record?
Better yet, where were you in the locker room? Which player are you in the huddle?

Or are just sitting on your butt whining?
Best basketball analytical guys never played or coach basketball at high level.

You can have an opinion that is critical that doesn’t mean you are whining or that will have all the facts from inside like Pope and coaching staff do. It’s just a personal opinion .
 
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