For those of you who think Dakari could not have helped his draft status

[bigblueinsanity]

Being more athletic isn't the point. You need to have some sort of basketball skill to make it in the NBA. Right now he doesn't have one. He had difficulty getting his shot off against 6'7" players. He won't last a practice in the NBA. Part of Dakari's problem is that right now he wouldn't play over Poythress or Skal either. Even though you can argue that his draft stock would fall some more if he didn't get play time next year as well I still don't think that not being about to get playing time in college is a good argument for going pro.

As for losing money, that would be a compelling case if he were projected as a top 10 pick. Dakari isn't. He may not get in the 1st round even. You only lose money if you are in the range where you are guaranteed to get paid in the first place. I don't see Dakari making an NBA roster next year. He might be able to make money playing in Europe or somewhere but now you are talking money that he can make up for by coming back. Getting drafted on potential is one thing if you are a top 15 pick. Being borderline to make the 1st round is another matter.

His difficulty was being blocked by a secondary defender, because for whatever reason he had a hard time feeling the doubleteam. In one on one coverage situations, he was very hard to stop on the college level. Has very good footwork. Can finish with either hand. Does a good job of being big, which means he understands his role as a big man and doesn't try to do things beyond his ability. He even has decent footspeed for a man his size.

He just has no lift, AT ALL. That wont improve in college, or elsewhere. So theres 2 choices:

1) Stay in college, earn nothing, risk injury, improve slightly on things you already do reasonably well, and hope you move up a spot or two; or 2) Leave, get drafted towards the end of the first round, earn around a million dollars, work on your game in the D league where professional chefs, trainers, etc are around to help; all while not having the silly practice/class restrictions.

How can anyone argue that option #1 is the best for the young man? It just isn't. In the past, the stigma of the D league was the only thing that brought marginal prospects back to college. That stigma is gone, and now so are they.

 

[ThePhoenix]

by returning......IMHO you are dead wrong. Could have improved in all facets of his game just by the fact of playing more and being a year older as he is still very young. If Dakari had of had a good season this year his dire combine numbers would not hurt him nearly as bad. I personally and have always thought that Dakari needed one more year in college and made a mistake in leaving. With increased confidence I really believe that Dakari would have been a special player by the end of next season and maybe even a lottery pick if he had stayed for his senior year. Just one fans opinion......

I agree.

Mainly just from being the only back to the basket style post player, and playing with Ulis and another PG. With Skal drawing a lot of attention, and being proficient out on the floor, Dakari would have seen tons of opportunities against 1 on 1 defense. He would have been able to show a much better ability to score potentially.

 

[cats2010]

Because you need a degree for those jobs. You don't to play basketball. There is nothing stupid about the argument that you shouldn't work for free or waste a year of earning power for no significant pay increase down the line.

If you want to rant and rave about players going broke, fine, but that has nothing to do with the discussion at hand except to further highlight the point that every year of salary is valuable.

The only person several hundred thousand or millions of dollars "doesn't matter" to is a person debating someone else's money.

If your only point is that they make a lot of money, and therefore they should stay in school because lots of money is lots of money, then I don't know what to tell you.

I am not arguing that they should stay in school or in this case Dakari. I have no idea if staying in school would have been a smart move or not for him. My point was the fact that so much emphasis is put out there on this board on "missed income" you never get back. I get the jest of what you and others are trying to say but I still don't buy it. Their money will be made now or later just like everyone. The only ones that lose out are the ones that would have gotten drafted early but stayed in school and by the time they graduate are not even overseas candidates (if that even happens)

 

[Tampa_cat54]

2010: Greivis Vasquez, Daniel Orton, and Lazar Hayward.
2011: Norris Cole, Cory Joseph, and Jimmy Butler
2012: Arnett Moultrie, Perry Jones, and Marguis Teague
2013: Rudy Gobert, Livio Jean-Charles, and Archie Goodwin
2014: Bogdan Bogdanovic, CJ Wilcox, and Josh Huestis

So basically you have a bunch of guys who produced next to nothing this year..... then Jimmy Butler and Rudy Gobert.

Next to nothing?

Greivis Vasquez averaged 25 minutes a game and 10 PPG for a playoff team in Toronto this year.

Norris Cole has 2 NBA titles, averaged 20 minutes and 8 PPG this season with the Pelicans.

Cory Joseph averaged 20 minutes and 7 PPG for the defending champ SA Spurs.

Perry Jones averaged 16 minutes and 6 points a game for the Thunder.

Even Archie Goodwin averaged 15 minutes and 6 PPG for the Suns.

Sure, none of them are all-stars, but lets not act like those aren't successful NBA careers up to this point. None of them will be out of the league any time soon.

 

[Hjack]

But he did increase that vertical from 23" to 23.5" this year.

 

[Hoskins91]

Dakari blew his future by jumping early. He didn't want to feel left out.

If the dude has the ability to make it, a year in school is not going to be the difference between him making it or not. Way too many people oversell the actual amount of development that happens in school versus in the league.

 

[gossie21]

Next to nothing?

Greivis Vasquez averaged 25 minutes a game and 10 PPG for a playoff team in Toronto this year.

Norris Cole has 2 NBA titles, averaged 20 minutes and 8 PPG this season with the Pelicans.

Cory Joseph averaged 20 minutes and 7 PPG for the defending champ SA Spurs.

Perry Jones averaged 16 minutes and 6 points a game for the Thunder.

Even Archie Goodwin averaged 15 minutes and 6 PPG for the Suns.

Sure, none of them are all-stars, but lets not act like those aren't successful NBA careers up to this point. None of them will be out of the league any time soon.

My goodness. Did you actually just use Perry Jones as an example of a "successful NBA career?" Maybe you and I have different standards for production of players. Jones played in all of 43 games this year. That means his coach found his services to be entirely unnecessary in 39 games.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

My goodness. Did you actually just use Perry Jones as an example of a "successful NBA career?" Maybe you and I have different standards for production of players. Jones played in all of 43 games this year. That means his coach found his services to be entirely unnecessary in 39 games.

And he has a 4 year contract worth 5.2 million.

So he could've stayed in school, played in 30 or so games, been limited to 20 hours of practice, been broke, risked injury or

Continued his development full time while earning millions. He was drafted 28th.

I still don't see how this is even debatable.

 

[sefus12]

His difficulty was being blocked by a secondary defender, because for whatever reason he had a hard time feeling the doubleteam. In one on one coverage situations, he was very hard to stop on the college level. Has very good footwork. Can finish with either hand. Does a good job of being big, which means he understands his role as a big man and doesn't try to do things beyond his ability. He even has decent footspeed for a man his size.

He just has no lift, AT ALL. That wont improve in college, or elsewhere. So theres 2 choices:

1) Stay in college, earn nothing, risk injury, improve slightly on things you already do reasonably well, and hope you move up a spot or two; or 2) Leave, get drafted towards the end of the first round, earn around a million dollars, work on your game in the D league where professional chefs, trainers, etc are around to help; all while not having the silly practice/class restrictions.

How can anyone argue that option #1 is the best for the young man? It just isn't. In the past, the stigma of the D league was the only thing that brought marginal prospects back to college. That stigma is gone, and now so are they.

Very good post.

On top of this people need to realize how big a factor age is in the draft anymore. Even if Dakari came back and improved his skills a bit, he's still a year older and that would probably out-weigh the gains he would make in the skill department. Think of it this way.... whatever skill improvement he would have in college, he would likely improve much more over that same year in the pros where he is literally practicing/playing for a living. No practice limitations or class to worry about. Just getting better at basketball.

 

[Blueaz]

He won't be more athletic next year, or 10 years from now for that matter. He is what he is. Every year he waits, he loses a year of earning money.

I really don't see how this is debatable.

It is totally debatable if he can improve. That is the debatable part. If he moves from low first to mid first first in draft, that is a big money differnce. And another year of college ain't a bad thing. Give me that all day every day

 

[KA4Prez]

The problem is, Dakari was somewhat protected and hidden after his Freshman year. His stock was too high, and he ignored it and returned.

He returned, his PT and his performance diminished, as did his draft stock. He ignored it again and left.

Hate to question a kid's decisions, it's his life, but it's fair to say that he may have made the wrong decision twice regarding the draft.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Dakari's stock dropped this year?

He was projected around 30th last year, and he's projected around 30th this year. Explain this confounding reasoning to me, please.

 

[Hoskins91]

The mistake people are making is assuming that improvement equals rising in draft position. The things that have made him a borderline first rounder aren't changing. The people who draft him hope he will continue to improve, they just have a pretty good idea what his ceiling is, and that's not something you spend a mid first round pick on.

 

[gossie21]

And he has a 4 year contract worth 5.2 million.

So he could've stayed in school, played in 30 or so games, been limited to 20 hours of practice, been broke, risked injury or

Continued his development full time while earning millions. He was drafted 28th.

I still don't see how this is even debatable.

I'm not sure who or what you are even debating. I agree with you completely. You're point is completely separate and outside of the point I was making.

I was just saying that teams aren't looking for an all-star or even a starter at the end of the first round. Their expectation is to find someone that can come in and hopefully provide backup minutes and if the player works out to be even better, then they are ecstatic. It's not like a team picking at #28 is trying to decide between Dakari and Jahlil Okafor.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

I'm not sure who or what you are even debating. I agree with you completely. You're point is completely separate and outside of the point I was making.

I was just saying that teams aren't looking for an all-star or even a starter at the end of the first round. Their expectation is to find someone that can come in and hopefully provide backup minutes and if the player works out to be even better, then they are ecstatic. It's not like a team picking at #28 is trying to decide between Dakari and Jahlil Okafor.

I was expanding on the point for those in this thread that seem to think Dakari is insane for declaring; when its actually quite the opposite.

 

[3rex]

Dakari's value to the NBA, if he has any, is as a backup big man. There are guys in the league making really good money for lots of years in that role.
Had he stayed until graduation, I believe that his value to the NBA would've been exactly the same, a back-up big man.
Nothing wrong with that at all, it could make him a rich man.

Based on that, my belief is he might as well start making the $$$ now, as opposed to later.

 

[Tampa_cat54]

My goodness. Did you actually just use Perry Jones as an example of a "successful NBA career?" Maybe you and I have different standards for production of players. Jones played in all of 43 games this year. That means his coach found his services to be entirely unnecessary in 39 games.

And he's making 5.2 million dollars over the next 4 year.

How's your paycheck looking?

If Perry Jones, who again is making 5.2 million dollars, is the only one from my list you can argue with....well you have no argument.

 

[gossie21]

I was expanding on the point for those in this thread that seem to think Dakari is insane for declaring; when its actually quite the opposite.

And I agree with that completely.

 

[gossie21]

And he's making 5.2 million dollars over the next 4 year.

How's your paycheck looking?

If Perry Jones, who again is making 5.2 million dollars, is the only one from my list you can argue with....well you have no argument.

Are you intentionally trying to make no sense? If so, congrats you are winning.

My original point was that NBA teams drafting at the end of the 1st round don't always expect an all-star or even a starter. Sometimes they aren't even sure if they will get a rotation player. They are looking for a player that can at a minimum provide back up minutes. Only a few players are even able to do that, there are hits and misses. Dakari is a good risk at that spot because he is a big strong 7-footer. His ceiling might not be a full-time starter, but his floor is high enough that you can depend on him to defend on rebound.

But hey if you want to sit around and argue about whether or not NBA players make more than me, well then have it. You win. Although I'm not sure what the point of that is. I guess by that standard Greg Oden has had a spectacular NBA career. Heck Hasheem Thabeet earned over $16 million in his career, I can't believe anyone would argue that his playing career has been anything other than a train wreck. Maybe you feel differently.

 

[Tampa_cat54]

Are you intentionally trying to make no sense? If so, congrats you are winning.

My original point was that NBA teams drafting at the end of the 1st round don't always expect an all-star or even a starter. Sometimes they aren't even sure if they will get a rotation player. They are looking for a player that can at a minimum provide back up minutes. Only a few players are even able to do that, there are hits and misses. Dakari is a good risk at that spot because he is a big strong 7-footer. His ceiling might not be a full-time starter, but his floor is high enough that you can depend on him to defend on rebound.

But hey if you want to sit around and argue about whether or not NBA players make more than me, well then have it. You win. Although I'm not sure what the point of that is. I guess by that standard Greg Oden has had a spectacular NBA career. Heck Hasheem Thabeet earned over $16 million in his career, I can't believe anyone would argue that his playing career has been anything other than a train wreck. Maybe you feel differently.

No, I'm not sure they WOULD argue that.

If you told Hasheem Thabeet, "Hey Hasheem, if you leave now, you're going to get paid $16 million over the next 6 years. You won't be very good, and you might get cut, but you'll make $16 million." Do you think he would take it? The answer is YES.

Also, my second point was that Perry Jones is the only one you have an issue with?

You said all those guys did NEXT TO NOTHING.

Greivis Vasquez averaged 10 points and 25 MPG on a playoff team.

Norris Cole has 2 NBA titles, both of which he was solidly in the rotation and the primary backup for Mario Chalmers.

MY POINT was that your take on "All those guys have done next to nothing" was completely wrong.

And it's still wrong.

And it'll be wrong again tomorrow.

Yet you seem to be dodging that point.

 

[gossie21]

No, I'm not sure they WOULD argue that.

If you told Hasheem Thabeet, "Hey Hasheem, if you leave now, you're going to get paid $16 million over the next 6 years. You won't be very good, and you might get cut, but you'll make $16 million." Do you think he would take it? The answer is YES.

Also, my second point was that Perry Jones is the only one you have an issue with?

You said all those guys did NEXT TO NOTHING.

Greivis Vasquez averaged 10 points and 25 MPG on a playoff team.

Norris Cole has 2 NBA titles, both of which he was solidly in the rotation and the primary backup for Mario Chalmers.

MY POINT was that your take on "All those guys have done next to nothing" was completely wrong.

And it's still wrong.

And it'll be wrong again tomorrow.

Yet you seem to be dodging that point.

Well let's just look at their paychecks since that's all that matters.

 

[Tampa_cat54]

Well let's just look at their paychecks since that's all that matters.

Good lord, ONCE AGAIN, you COMPLETELY dodge my main argument that all of those guys you listed are FAR from contributing next to nothing.

Just admit it, YOU were wrong, plenty of those guys have contributed PLENTY for their respective teams, and YES are making a nice paycheck in the process.

This is now the 3rd time you have dodged my main argument.

 

[gossie21]

Good lord, ONCE AGAIN, you COMPLETELY dodge my main argument that all of those guys you listed are FAR from contributing next to nothing.

Just admit it, YOU were wrong, plenty of those guys have contributed PLENTY for their respective teams, and YES are making a nice paycheck in the process.

This is now the 3rd time you have dodged my main argument.

You keep changing the argument on me so I'm having a hard time keeping up. And your inane responses haven't really been relevant to my original comment so I guess turnabout is fair play.

Also, "all of those guys" are FAR from contributing next to nothing. REALLY? This was my original list.

2010: Greivis Vasquez, Daniel Orton, and Lazar Hayward.
2011: Norris Cole, Cory Joseph, and Jimmy Butler
2012: Arnett Moultrie, Perry Jones, and Marguis Teague
2013: Rudy Gobert, Livio Jean-Charles, and Archie Goodwin
2014: Bogdan Bogdanovic, CJ Wilcox, and Josh Huestis


I would argue that Orton, Hayward, Cole, Joseph, Moultrie, Jones, Teague, Jean-Charles, Goodwin, Wilcox and Huestis aren't the type of guys that franchise would sweet over losing. If Perry Jones had a debilitating injury would OKC have to scramble for a replacement? Nope. What about Orton... he hasn't played in the league in about 2 years. Even a guy like Norris Cole isn't the type of player a program worries about too much. But he's exactly the type of player I was arguing Dakari could be. A career backup. The type of guy an NBA would pick with the #29 pick, and play him 15-20 minutes a game.

Maybe I shouldn't have put Vasquez in the next to nothing group. Fine. But Perry Jones I would put in the next to nothing group all day long. Too bad my argument is a losing one because he happens to be paid by an NBA team.

 

[65pacecar]

I guess by most arguments on this board that its the best for all decent to great players to declare for the NBA even if they end up in the D-League because they start getting paid and go against better competition. If that is the argument and they should all go, then its stupid for them to come to college at all; they should all go straight to the D League from high school to develope since most of the good players will never finish college anyway. Apparently, by the common argument on here, playing at UK or any College is a waste for these guys to begin with since staying a second or third year will not sufficiently improve their skills and draft pick.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Sorry. But if I'm a mediocre prospect and I make 5 million dollars while never seeing the floor - I'm still happy.

 

[truebluewildcat]

He could have really blossomed being the premier post player on a squad not as deep as the previous two seasons...

don't know that he was ever going to be a feature center piece star player...the game has sped up and moved out from the post...its guards, wings, and 6'11 scoring forwards that can move and attack like guards and wings...

worst case...he gets paid for a few years and then bounces around overseas for a decade...

best case...he'll collect checks for 15 years as a solid role playing/back up big body...like big Nazr...

 

[anon_013cn8yrfncx2]

So why did Kennedy Meeks return? He's a lot better than DJ. Guess he didn't get exposed the experts on here.

 

[GonzoCat90]

So why did Kennedy Meeks return? He's a lot better than DJ. Guess he didn't get exposed the experts on here.

Because he's a 6'8 center and injured?

Why did Harrison Barnes, James McAdoo and countless other Carolina players go back and cost themselves tons of money? That's apparently how Roy operates. Or maybe none of those kids wanted to leave for whatever personal reason they each decided was most important.

Comparing entirely different players, with entirely different draft stocks, at entirely different programs, in entirely different systems, who may have entirely different personal lives, doesn't do anything to change the general notion that if you're a known commodity, or limited athletically, or have already seen your stock dip, that it's an unnecessary risk and essentially a waste to come back and be further dissected while losing a year of earnings.