For all the talk about Skal being overrated, how about Kennard?

[SilentsAreGolden]

Came into tonight's game shooting .278 from 3 and he's 0-6 tonight. Seems like more often than not, kids who come out of HS having the rep of being a lights-out shooter, they struggle when they get to college. Frankamp for KU was supposed to be one of the best shooters since God was a baby, couldn't throw it in the ocean from a boat. He may turn it around, but I'm more than happy he passed on us.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

I was wondering what would happen when he had to shoot against bigger, faster players. Now we know. He'll be better as a senior.

 

[WildMoon]

I'm critical of Skal, but i'm not sure if he's overrated yet.

Again, he started basketball late. Injured Junior year. Played in lame ass league his senior year.

His game experience is equivalent of 6th to 8th grader. Can't imagine him being any good at the moment.

 

[STL_Cat]

We could really use another shooter this year. I know he's not setting the world on fire, but I won't go so far as to say I'm glad he passed on us. I have no idea how much he would actually help us, but I sure don't see the detriment in this team having another dude who can shoot the ball.

 

[buckkiller]

Dukes Josh Carrier!

 

[Wall2Boogie]

the thing is though he will play 4 years at puke. By the time he's a junior he will some how be a stud. If he played for us he would be carrier or dare I say hood

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

We could really use another shooter this year. I know he's not setting the world on fire, but I won't go so far as to say I'm glad he passed on us. I have no idea how much he would actually help us, but I sure don't see the detriment in this team having another dude who can shoot the ball.

To quote Cal, we have plenty of shooters, just not very many makers. Kennard would be just another of the former, not the latter.

 

[poppycat]

Dukes Josh Carrier!

Really........he started and played 20+ min tonight. (Finished at 11-5-2-) (Did Carrier get 20 min in 4 yrs).....He will be allowed to play through it. Duke stresses shooting (scoring) more than defense. Probably be far more successful at Duke than at UK
(like the Wiltjer deal)

 

[buckkiller]

He might get more minutes but he aint doing $#!+ with the minutes he is getting. So yes REALLY!

 

[UKWildcats#8]

To quote Cal, we have plenty of shooters, just not very many makers. Kennard would be just another of the former, not the latter.

Exactly. There is no proof in college so far Kennard is a shooter.

 

[wcc31]

Came into tonight's game shooting .278 from 3 and he's 0-6 tonight. Seems like more often than not, kids who come out of HS having the rep of being a lights-out shooter, they struggle when they get to college. Frankamp for KU was supposed to be one of the best shooters since God was a baby, couldn't throw it in the ocean from a boat. He may turn it around, but I'm more than happy he passed on us.

It's the first semester for a kid who was always going to be a 3-4 year player.

Do you people even watch college basketball?

 

[BearMercer]

Skal was RSCI #2, Kennard was 21. Skal was projected as a top 2 pick in the NBA draft next year.

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

It's the first semester for a kid who was always going to be a 3-4 year player.

Do you people even watch college basketball?

I missed the part of your post that has anything to do with what I posted. If Skal is overrated due to his poor performance (and I have defended Skal as much as anyone), then so is Kennard. He may become a good shooter, but he is far from that right now. And yes I do watch basketball thank you.

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

Skal was RSCI #2, Kennard was 21. Skal was projected as a top 2 pick in the NBA draft next year.

And? I never said Skal wasn't supposed to be better than Kennard.

 

[poppycat]

He might get more minutes but he aint doing $#!+ with the minutes he is getting. So yes REALLY!

Kennard is shooting 38%.......Murray 39 %
I remember people making the same argument about
DunLeavy and Reddick in the past.
Kids that would not do so well in Cal's system
can excel elsewhere.
Murray will likely go Pro after 1 yr,
Kennard in 4 if at all, but he will be a very good college player.

 

[Wall2Boogie]

You misspelled dungleavy

 

[poppycat]

You misspelled dungleavy

Thanks, you forget to use capitals .

 

[BearMercer]

And? I never said Skal wasn't supposed to be better than Kennard.

And that's obviously why more people talk about Skal being overrated.

Also Skal is almost 20. He should be more physically developed and ready than most other freshman.

 

[gracetoyou]

We dodged a bullet missing on him. No loss!!

 

[DodgerDukie1985]

Honestly, I'm more worried about his defense than his offense. Yes, his shooting percentages are terrible, but a number of his shots have rolled in and out. Just gotta have the game slow down a bit and get his mental confidence up and I feel he'll be fine as a shooter. Defensively though, he's atrocious on that end at this time. Good news for him is he's got three or four years to figure it out and at least looks better than Chase Jeter (now he's VERY overrated IMO).

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

Honestly, I'm more worried about his defense than his offense. Yes, his shooting percentages are terrible, but a number of his shots have rolled in and out. Just gotta have the game slow down a bit and get his mental confidence up and I feel he'll be fine as a shooter. Defensively though, he's atrocious on that end at this time. Good news for him is he's got three or four years to figure it out and at least looks better than Chase Jeter (now he's VERY overrated IMO).

It's extremely rare for a freshman guard to come in and play good defense. They just don't get proper instruction in HS and of course none at all in AAU. And my personal feelings about K aside, I think his strengths as a coach are more geared towards offense and the intangibles than defense.

 

[DodgerDukie1985]

It's extremely rare for a freshman guard to come in and play good defense. They just don't get proper instruction in HS and of course none at all in AAU. And my personal feelings about K aside, I think his strengths as a coach are more geared towards offense and the intangibles than defense.

True. Obviously you can't compare Kennard to Justise Winslow, but Winslow seriously spoiled me last year lol. As far as K goes, I agree with your assessment. Although I do like that he's shown more of a willingness to mix it up on defense and throw in some zones. Granted it may be more out of necessity since last year's team wasn't particularly great playing straight up man defense and this year's team doesn't look any better at it. And that was before Amile Jefferson's foot injury.

 

[Primedfor9]

It's way too early to call any of these guys busts. I guess Diallo is a bust too, only 7.8 and 3.5 through four games. I always thought Kennard would have a Grayson Allen type freshmen year.

 

[blueblood65]

It's the first semester for a kid who was always going to be a 3-4 year player.

Do you people even watch college basketball?

EXACTLY. Sometimes I wonder that myself reading this board.........

 

[Dream Team 13]

Skal can be put in better situations for sure. Needs to be a 4 and play 10-15 ft out. Will not be strong enough anytime this season to be a force in the middle. Right now, he is exposed and looks not to be ready for the NBA.

 

[AnarchoNeoLuddite]

Regardless if his shooting eye picks up, dude cant play a lick of D, neither he nor allen can keep any player out of the paint. We get them again, we beat them again, for that reason.

 

[Primedfor9]

And that's obviously why more people talk about Skal being overrated.

Also Skal is almost 20. He should be more physically developed and ready than most other freshman.

Not at all. Skal has played very little competitive basketball over the past two years, he should be the least ready of all freshmen.

 

[mj2k10]

Regardless if his shooting eye picks up, dude cant play a lick of D, neither he nor allen can keep any player out of the paint. We get them again, we beat them again, for that reason.

And it's why, as great as Duke's roster looks on paper for next year, I still think UK is potentially better. From all indications, De'Aaron Fox is a beast on D, and Monk clearly has the athleticism and length to be very good on that end (though physical gifts like that aren't everything- Wall and Bledsoe weren't really great on D in college). Even if Duke gets Allen back, a perimeter with Thornton, Jackson, Kennard, Allen, and Matt Jones just does not have a tremendous amount of ability on D.

And Duke is likely going to lose it's entire frontcourt, which is actually not bad defensively. Giles and Tatum are going to be a big step up offensively, but Plumlee, Jefferson, and Ingram are good defenders, and they'll all be gone. UK, OTOH, is adding Bam and Gabriel, both of whom are, at the very least, intimidating shotblockers.

 

[qwesley]

Even if Duke gets Allen back, a perimeter with Thornton, Jackson, Kennard, Allen, and Matt Jones just does not have a tremendous amount of ability on D.

Exactly. How he manages the glut of good, not great, guards will be interesting. If he plays 3 guards and puts Tatum at the 4 that is a very soft lineup.

 

[TheDude1]

Eh, as some people said, it is a bit apples and oranges. Kennard (9 pts, 3 rebounds, 1 assist) was ranked as low as 34th by one service. The guys ranked on either side of him in the RSCI are Carlton Bragg (5 pts, 3 rebounds) and Jalen Adams (6 pts, 2 rebounds, 2 assists). Kennard is maybe the fifth or so option at Duke, and is expected to be a four year player. Having watched a lot of basketball, he hasn't been great, but he hasn't been some epic failure.

Skal (11 pts, 4 rebounds) on the other hand was a projected #1 pick in the draft, the top player in the class according to Scout, Rivals, and some other major services, and considered the crown jewel of the top recruiting class in the nation.

Given how close their stats are, and given what was expected of them coming in, it seems like a bit of sour grapes to try to compare the struggles of each.

Having said that, Kennard has STRUGGLED with his shooting to a mind-blowing extent. Thankfully he is still a very heady player who is averaging below one TO a game, really doesn't make many mistakes, and is shooting 95+% from the line. His shots have LOOKED good; I have to say, I've never seen someone have SO many shots go down and come back out. The hope is that he will come around.

 

[AnarchoNeoLuddite]

THe hope he will come around? Not here, keep struggling for all most UK fans care.

 

[dezyDeco]

It's extremely rare for a freshman guard to come in and play good defense. They just don't get proper instruction in HS and of course none at all in AAU. And my personal feelings about K aside, I think his strengths as a coach are more geared towards offense and the intangibles than defense.

intangibles = flopping/head-snapping/getting touch fouls

Knowing he'll get plenty of friendly whistles, Koach Krybabyschitzki can put more emphasis on FT shooting than D, especially when it comes to his guards.

 

[wild mandu]

Certainly thought he would shoot better, even if it is his freshman year.

Jaylen Brown is also shooting 25 percent from long distance, so I don't think missing out on those guys led to our shooting woes. I'd take Murray over both of them, he just has to become more consistent.

Honestly, weak class all around.

 

[UK90]

We could really use another shooter this year. I know he's not setting the world on fire, but I won't go so far as to say I'm glad he passed on us. I have no idea how much he would actually help us, but I sure don't see the detriment in this team having another dude who can shoot the ball.

I'm curious, what part of 25 percent do you have trouble understanding?

Because 25 percent is Kennard's current 3 pt percentage in college basketball. That's not a shooter, that's a bricklayer. We sure as hell don't need any more of those.

 

[mj2k10]

Kennard illustrates a concept that a lot of people miss- that outside shooting does not always translate to the college level, especially with guys who played against crappy HS competition. There's no question that Kennard is an incredible shooter when he's left open. But now he's consistently playing teams where every single opponent on the floor is bigger, faster, and more athletic than all but a few guys he faced in HS. And yeah, he shot well in AAU ball and in All-Star games, but we all know that the level of defensive intensity in those is nothing like real college games.

A player obviously needs some kind of foundation- a guy who can't shoot just can't shoot, period, and it won't matter how much or how little you defend him- but I don't think great college shooters are particularly predictable (with a few exceptions for the truly, truly elite). As much as (some) people want to act like modern players can't shoot like guys did in the good ol' days, there are a TON of players in D1 ball who can drill 3's like nobody's business. What's hard to know is if they can do it at game speed, against intense defense being played by D1 caliber athletes.

I think this is part of why Cal usually prefers guys like Matthews to Kennard. Kennard can be a huge weapon, but really ONLY if he can hit 3's at around 40%. Matthews will never hit 3's at 40%, but he might be able to get up to the mid 30's with a lot of hard work and by being highly selective about when he shoots, and he does almost everything else better than Kennard.

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

And it's why, as great as Duke's roster looks on paper for next year, I still think UK is potentially better. From all indications, De'Aaron Fox is a beast on D, and Monk clearly has the athleticism and length to be very good on that end (though physical gifts like that aren't everything- Wall and Bledsoe weren't really great on D in college). Even if Duke gets Allen back, a perimeter with Thornton, Jackson, Kennard, Allen, and Matt Jones just does not have a tremendous amount of ability on D.

And Duke is likely going to lose it's entire frontcourt, which is actually not bad defensively. Giles and Tatum are going to be a big step up offensively, but Plumlee, Jefferson, and Ingram are good defenders, and they'll all be gone. UK, OTOH, is adding Bam and Gabriel, both of whom are, at the very least, intimidating shotblockers.

Good point. Unless Jefferson gets a 5th year due to this injury, their freshmen are gonna have nobody to learn from other than Obi, who doesn't play and that other big man they got that doesn't play either.

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

I guess maybe I worded my OP wrongly, because it has been taken as a swipe at either Skal or Kennard or both. I have been one of Skal's biggest defenders against a lot of posts on this board. It was more an attempt to defend his struggles than anything else. And I wasn't really taking a swipe at Kennard either. Just trying to show that lots of the freshman phenoms are struggling and not to be too hard on Skal.

 

[TheDude1]

Good point. Unless Jefferson gets a 5th year due to this injury, their freshmen are gonna have nobody to learn from other than Obi, who doesn't play and that other big man they got that doesn't play either.

From your lips... would KILL for Amile to be back next year.

 

[JonathanW]

Came into tonight's game shooting .278 from 3 and he's 0-6 tonight. Seems like more often than not, kids who come out of HS having the rep of being a lights-out shooter, they struggle when they get to college. Frankamp for KU was supposed to be one of the best shooters since God was a baby, couldn't throw it in the ocean from a boat. He may turn it around, but I'm more than happy he passed on us.

I think you answered your own question. Shooters often need a little longer to adjust, as defenders get out on them quicker so their shots more contested than they are used to.
But also if all that was wrong with Skal was his shot, I wouldn't be as concerned. Shooting slumps and streaks occur.

 

[.S&C.]

To quote Cal, we have plenty of shooters, just not very many makers. Kennard would be just another of the former, not the latter.

The difference here is kennard will play 4 years at Duke and somewhere along the way he will turn out to be an amazing shooter. His stroke is excellent. Freshman shooters don't do well usually and that's my gripe with cal. There's no reason at this point cal shouldn't have some solid shooters hanging around. He would be unstoppable.

Skal is a one year player(big) and he looks terrible right now. IMO not a valid comparison.