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Flip the Fayette County School Board Today with your Vote at the Ballot Box

Was at a Sebourn rally last week....helluva nice guy and very focused, especially on FCPS expenses. Solid yes on Amend2 and his kids are in public schools.
 
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I would hate to see how many posts the OP would start about the school board if he lived in Jefferson County.
Dj Rscl GIF by Spinnin' Records
 
I would hate to see how many posts the OP would start about the school board if he lived in Jefferson County.
A heck of a lot! But sadly Fayette county is not to far off from Jefferson county and trying their best to pass them up for biggest dumpster fire.
 
Come away with only one win. So now school board will be more of same it has been and even further their agenda. Tyler, Amy, and Penny I think will be the 3 to side with superintendent liggins and his agendas. Betsy and Monica are the outnumbered 2 votes.
 
Man, you and I have had our arguments in the past in GYERO, and I basically decided to just let it go because I was being a jerk and realized you really are passionate about this stuff…

But what are you getting out of putting so much effort and energy into it? Especially when you’re disappointed the way you were tonight; is it really worth all of this consternation and stress?
 
Penny is a good lady. Smart, too. I don’t know her that well personally, but I don’t think she would be a blind follower.

Vouchers have to be dead for a while in this state. Even in one of the reddest of red state, it’s just not even close, twice.
 
Man, you and I have had our arguments in the past in GYERO, and I basically decided to just let it go because I was being a jerk and realized you really are passionate about this stuff…

But what are you getting out of putting so much effort and energy into it? Especially when you’re disappointed the way you were tonight; is it really worth all of this consternation and stress?
Yes it’s worth it. Nothing personal against anyone not with me.
 
Penny is a good lady. Smart, too. I don’t know her that well personally, but I don’t think she would be a blind follower.

Vouchers have to be dead for a while in this state. Even in one of the reddest of red state, it’s just not even close, twice.
Good, I hope I’m wrong 😀
 
Penny is a good lady. Smart, too. I don’t know her that well personally, but I don’t think she would be a blind follower.

Vouchers have to be dead for a while in this state. Even in one of the reddest of red state, it’s just not even close, twice.
Is it even about party affiliation when KY has one of the lowest average incomes in the nation.
Where's the benefit for the average Kentuckian?
 
Is it even about party affiliation when KY has one of the lowest average incomes in the nation.
Where's the benefit for the average Kentuckian?
I think you have to think long term. Schools need competition to improve. It's no different than any other product or service your buy. If you have one or two suppliers, the product or service generally won't be very good. Some small counties still may not have competition in the short run, but hopefully allowing school choice would ultimately introduce competition into those places as well through the introduction of additional school options. . So long term, I think all Kentuckians would benefit. Amendment 2 just allowed people to use tax money for private schools, because the Constitution doesn't allow it, but I was hoping that when they implemented all of that it would include school choice among public schools as well. So basically, stop operating schools as monopolies. Until that happens, in my opinion, you can pour as much money as you want into school systems and they still won't much more than mediocre.
 
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Fayette Co friends! Please vote..

District 1 - Monica Mundy

District 3 - Isaac Sebourn

District 5 - Betsy Rutherford

We NEED to get competent and honest leaders on our school board!
I voted for Betsy, but she did about the same as most of my other choices. ☹️
 
Penny is a good lady. Smart, too. I don’t know her that well personally, but I don’t think she would be a blind follower.

Vouchers have to be dead for a while in this state. Even in one of the reddest of red state, it’s just not even close, twice.

The problem is noone pushed that amendment. I have no idea why you pit something like that on the ballot then basically never promote it. Meanwhile the union spent a fortune to beat it.

The teachers union in ky wields a sh1tload of power. Its mostly a rural state where in all but a few counties the school board is by far the biggest employer. They do a great job of leveraging that dynamic via lying and scare tactics. Its tough to overcome.

The only way to get it through is either actually run it full bore and match their spend and effort or just dont mention it until you get in office and ram it through.

Kids would benefit so much from it, its worth whatever it takes to get it done.
 
The problem is noone pushed that amendment. I have no idea why you pit something like that on the ballot then basically never promote it.
You're kidding, right? I heard about it plenty. Rand Paul made an ad for it, along with others. This is the second time it's been defeated. You can't look at Kentucky's votes and say this wasn't on the forefront of voters' minds. Trump won by a landslide, Amendment 1 carried with no problem. When they got to vote on it, the majority of folks voted against it. It should be over. Forget about the political sides affifliated with amendment 2 and look at the numbers. Kentuckians don't want it, or at least don't wnat the legislature messing with public money.
 
You're kidding, right? I heard about it plenty. Rand Paul made an ad for it, along with others. This is the second time it's been defeated. You can't look at Kentucky's votes and say this wasn't on the forefront of voters' minds. Trump won by a landslide, Amendment 1 carried with no problem. When they got to vote on it, the majority of folks voted against it. It should be over. Forget about the political sides affifliated with amendment 2 and look at the numbers. Kentuckians don't want it, or at least don't wnat the legislature messing with public money.

Nope...ads may have been fine, but they weren't clear, and didn't explain the myths and misconceptions from the "no" side. It was very poorly explained and supported from those in support. The "no" side was essentially believing that public schools were going to turn into your grandpa's one room school house if this passed and it wasn't disputed.
 
You're kidding, right? I heard about it plenty. Rand Paul made an ad for it, along with others. This is the second time it's been defeated. You can't look at Kentucky's votes and say this wasn't on the forefront of voters' minds. Trump won by a landslide, Amendment 1 carried with no problem. When they got to vote on it, the majority of folks voted against it. It should be over. Forget about the political sides affifliated with amendment 2 and look at the numbers. Kentuckians don't want it, or at least don't wnat the legislature messing with public money.

Hes literally it and he has nothing to do with state politics.

By contrast drive down 64 and see endless billboards against it. Endless radio ads against it. School employees and kea members got endless fear porn mailing and texts about it.

One side went full bore on it and the other barely a whimper. So yes it was definitely on the minds of voters if they were voting against it because the opposition inundated everyone and got out their vote, which they are good at.
 
I'll admit I am biased, obviously. I got plenty of mailers and saw other ads besides Paul's in favor of the amendment. Maybe it's a Fayette/Jefferson thing due to large constituency. I don't know.

Now, if there was an actual PLAN that amendment 2 would have led to, it might have done better. Transparency about what the legislature would have actually done with the money would have helped.

Look, I get that people are less than enthused about public education. But are they upset enough to let the KY legislature do whatever they want and amend the state constitution with no outline of how the funds would be dispersed? Would they be happy with a upper-middle class family receiving the same amount of money from the state for private school as a one-parent family? What about homeschoolers? It was all way too vague, not to mention talking points about 'raising teacher salaries' that had no basis in truth or fact.

are you in favor of enabling the General Assembly to provide financial support for the education costs of students in kindergarten through 12th grade who are outside the system of common (public) schools by amending the Constitution of Kentucky as stated below?

I'm not looking to argue, because no one is going to change their mind.
 
I'll admit I am biased, obviously. I got plenty of mailers and saw other ads besides Paul's in favor of the amendment. Maybe it's a Fayette/Jefferson thing due to large constituency. I don't know.

Now, if there was an actual PLAN that amendment 2 would have led to, it might have done better. Transparency about what the legislature would have actually done with the money would have helped.

Look, I get that people are less than enthused about public education. But are they upset enough to let the KY legislature do whatever they want and amend the state constitution with no outline of how the funds would be dispersed? Would they be happy with a upper-middle class family receiving the same amount of money from the state for private school as a one-parent family? What about homeschoolers? It was all way too vague, not to mention talking points about 'raising teacher salaries' that had no basis in truth or fact.

are you in favor of enabling the General Assembly to provide financial support for the education costs of students in kindergarten through 12th grade who are outside the system of common (public) schools by amending the Constitution of Kentucky as stated below?

I'm not looking to argue, because no one is going to change their mind.

There isnt a plan now other than more of the same wasteful spending and awful results. Of course that benefits teachers' unions so thats why theyre highly interested.
 
I'll admit I am biased, obviously. I got plenty of mailers and saw other ads besides Paul's in favor of the amendment. Maybe it's a Fayette/Jefferson thing due to large constituency. I don't know.

Now, if there was an actual PLAN that amendment 2 would have led to, it might have done better. Transparency about what the legislature would have actually done with the money would have helped.

Look, I get that people are less than enthused about public education. But are they upset enough to let the KY legislature do whatever they want and amend the state constitution with no outline of how the funds would be dispersed? Would they be happy with a upper-middle class family receiving the same amount of money from the state for private school as a one-parent family? What about homeschoolers? It was all way too vague, not to mention talking points about 'raising teacher salaries' that had no basis in truth or fact.

are you in favor of enabling the General Assembly to provide financial support for the education costs of students in kindergarten through 12th grade who are outside the system of common (public) schools by amending the Constitution of Kentucky as stated below?

I'm not looking to argue, because no one is going to change their mind.
Was always against vouchers until about the last 5 years or so. I live in Jefferson County where I think one of the school boards main goals is to drive as many people to either Oldham County or private school. That's how bad a job JCPS does. Without doing it intentionally, it's impossible to be this bad.
 
Was always against vouchers until about the last 5 years or so. I live in Jefferson County where I think one of the school boards main goals is to drive as many people to either Oldham County or private school. That's how bad a job JCPS does. Without doing it intentionally, it's impossible to be this bad.

Same, Glenn. I was opposed to vouchers too. I think St X, KCD and all the other private schools would just take that money and raise tuition.

That said, it feels like there are incentives for JCPS to push kids to the private schools and Oldham Co. Plus, I know several principals and people in leadership in JCPS. They are good people on a personal basis, but they ABSOLUTELY are woke losers when it comes to their jobs. The only way out of that is to get competition.
 
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Fayette County saw plenty of ads on both sides. I think this was something that appealed to some folks in urban areas of Kentucky and nowhere else. A lack of voter information isn’t to blame, imo. Folks just didn’t see the benefit. If you live in somewhere like Bath or Green County, how would this amendment really help you?
 
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Same, Glenn. I was opposed to vouchers too. I think St X, KCD and all the other private schools would just take that money and raise tuition.

That said, it feels like there are incentives for JCPS to push kids to the private schools and Oldham Co. Plus, I know several principals and people in leadership in JCPS. They are good people on a personal basis, but they ABSOLUTELY are woke losers when it comes to their jobs. The only way out of that is to get competition.
JCPS is too big to work efficiently.
 
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Fayette County saw plenty of ads on both sides. I think this was something that appealed to some folks in urban areas of Kentucky and nowhere else. A lack of voter information isn’t to blame, imo. Folks just didn’t see the benefit. If you live in somewhere like Bath or Green County, how would this amendment really help you?
That’s a good point I hadn’t thought about. Sure, they could build private schools but in a lot of areas like you are talking about, probably aren’t existing private schools so what they hear is the fear mongering part where schools are going to lose money. Then their public schools send out forms saying if this passes, x amount of teachers will be fired, x amount of programs will be cut. That brings up another issue. I don’t know that the for it side did a good side explaining how it would work. My basic understanding was schools get something around $4,000 per kid. This covers everything to educate the kid from teacher salary to supplies. If that kids parents chose to send him to a “private” school, then that $4,000 would go to the parents and or the new school he is at, if the public school no longer has him, then their expenses should go down. They shouldn’t have to have all these cuts like they tried to claim. But back to the areas without private school options, they may like their schools and/or don’t have private school option so they wouldn’t lose any money…I don’t think.
 
If that was the case wouldn’t there be millions of dollars out there from property taxes paid by businesses and people who don’t have children? That’s obviously not exactly how it works.

Also people that don’t have private school options send their children to other counties which would take money from their county to another.
 
If that was the case wouldn’t there be millions of dollars out there from property taxes paid by businesses and people who don’t have children? That’s obviously not exactly how it works.

Also people that don’t have private school options send their children to other counties which would take money from their county to another.

The tax situation already happens. Businesses and people without school age children already get taxed with zero benefit.

In rural areas it would have impact for high performers. Those kids could go to environments that better realize their potential. The kids that dont remain uneffected.

For any school concerned they would lose students, all they have to do is create a learning environment that benefits kids instead of administration.
 
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Fayette County saw plenty of ads on both sides.

No one is arguing that. The FACT is that the "yes" side of this didn't explain it thoroughly, nor did they counter the fallacies from the "no" crowd, which drilled into stone the simple lie that public schools were going to lose a ton of funding along w/ their voice.
 
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I think you have to think long term. Schools need competition to improve. It's no different than any other product or service your buy. If you have one or two suppliers, the product or service generally won't be very good. Some small counties still may not have competition in the short run, but hopefully allowing school choice would ultimately introduce competition into those places as well through the introduction of additional school options. . So long term, I think all Kentuckians would benefit. Amendment 2 just allowed people to use tax money for private schools, because the Constitution doesn't allow it, but I was hoping that when they implemented all of that it would include school choice among public schools as well. So basically, stop operating schools as monopolies. Until that happens, in my opinion, you can pour as much money as you want into school systems and they still won't much more than mediocre.

Arizona has a system like what the General Assembly wants and it blew a hole in their budget. Also, most of the monies go to already well off peoples who have their kids in private school. Amendment 2 was basically a "Vote to give a tuition break to your rich neighbor" and people in rural areas, which don't have many private offerings (if any), soundly rejected it as such.

I'm a capitalist but no degree of competition is going to make schools better for the simple reason that schools have to take who is in their geographic footprint. If you are in an area with a lot of poverty, disengaged parents, a community that doesn't value learning, etc. then you are not going to have a good mix for a school. There's a reason why the test scores that come out every year are well correlated to high income zip codes. If schools just kick out any person that was violent or a problem or apathetic or whatever, I guarantee the bad test scores people talk about would magically improve. But guess what? You can't. State law says kids stay till 18 now and the state constitution guarantees a right to an education. There are also federal rules to enforce that. So lots of public schools are just stuck.

I'd also highlight that KY has a massive teaching shortage now. How does this fix any of that? People aren't going to take jobs at these alternative places with less pay and even fewer benefits.

None of this means that schools can't do better. But there are some really bad incentives that hurt schools right now such as schools being penalized by graduation rates, leading to pressure on teachers to pass everyone lest a kid fail and hurt the accountability metrics. State tests need an overhaul as existing social studies standards were created by people that think history is meant to turn kids into activists and the science standards are so terrible that even high achieving kids aren't passing them (look at this past year's results). There needs to be a more thorough study of where money is going as little is reaching the classroom as some districts have too much top heavy administration. We need a different paradigm but for me Amendment 2 didn't cut it at all.
 
Arizona has a system like what the General Assembly wants and it blew a hole in their budget. Also, most of the monies go to already well off peoples who have their kids in private school. Amendment 2 was basically a "Vote to give a tuition break to your rich neighbor" and people in rural areas, which don't have many private offerings (if any), soundly rejected it as such.

I'm a capitalist but no degree of competition is going to make schools better for the simple reason that schools have to take who is in their geographic footprint. If you are in an area with a lot of poverty, disengaged parents, a community that doesn't value learning, etc. then you are not going to have a good mix for a school. There's a reason why the test scores that come out every year are well correlated to high income zip codes. If schools just kick out any person that was violent or a problem or apathetic or whatever, I guarantee the bad test scores people talk about would magically improve. But guess what? You can't. State law says kids stay till 18 now and the state constitution guarantees a right to an education. There are also federal rules to enforce that. So lots of public schools are just stuck.

I'd also highlight that KY has a massive teaching shortage now. How does this fix any of that? People aren't going to take jobs at these alternative places with less pay and even fewer benefits.

None of this means that schools can't do better. But there are some really bad incentives that hurt schools right now such as schools being penalized by graduation rates, leading to pressure on teachers to pass everyone lest a kid fail and hurt the accountability metrics. State tests need an overhaul as existing social studies standards were created by people that think history is meant to turn kids into activists and the science standards are so terrible that even high achieving kids aren't passing them (look at this past year's results). There needs to be a more thorough study of where money is going as little is reaching the classroom as some districts have too much top heavy administration. We need a different paradigm but for me Amendment 2 didn't cut it at all.
I disagree with you about amendment 2 but this was a very well written post with a lot of good points.
 
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It's almost as if, when Frankfort wants to "end a situation", they put it on the ballot.

Things that are sure to pass, but might prove "inconvenient" for powerful members/lobbyists in Frankfort never seem to MAKE it to the ballot. A cynical person might conclude that that is by design.
 
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I'd also highlight that KY has a massive teaching shortage now. How does this fix any of that? People aren't going to take jobs at these alternative places with less pay and even fewer benefits.

It absolutely fixes it. Schools are rewarded via enrollment. The major factor in increasing enrollment is teaching. That makes attracting top teachers a priority. Attracting top teachers means natural increase in pay and benefits via the market.

Or....we can continue to allow teachers unions and government continue to protect the lowest quality teachers and bloated useless high paying administrative positions.

Its an easy answer.
 
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It absolutely fixes it. Schools are rewarded via enrollment. The major factor in increasing enrollment is teaching. That makes attracting top teachers a priority. Attracting top teachers means natural increase in pay and benefits via the market.

Or....we can continue to allow teachers unions and government continue to protect the lowest quality teachers and bloated useless high paying administrative positions. All white kids continue to fall behind.

Its an easy answer.

This is just not true. There are private schools with healthy enrollment and their pay for teachers + health insurance benefits is much less than their public school counterparts, which is an incentive for a lot of teachers to not make that jump. If you are a teacher and you go private, you lose your state pension as well. No one is going to give that up for a 401k plan. Private schools unless they receive a sizeable endowment are not going to ever be in the position you discuss. Even if these kids bring the $4k or whatever in state dollars that's not going to be enough at all. It takes a LOT of money to run a school. Personnel is a big cost but you have to have materials, tech, infrastructure, etc. So that $4k is a small drop in the bucket.
 
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This is just not true. There are private schools with healthy enrollment and their pay for teachers + health insurance benefits is much less than their public school counterparts, which is an incentive for a lot of teachers to not make that jump. If you are a teacher and you go private, you lose your state pension as well. No one is going to give that up for a 401k plan. Private schools unless they receive a sizeable endowment are not going to ever be in the position you discuss. Even if these kids bring the $4k or whatever in state dollars that's not going to be enough at all. It takes a LOT of money to run a school. Personnel is a big cost but you have to have materials, tech, infrastructure, etc. So that $4k is a small drop in the bucket.

If thats the case, why do those teachers choose the private schools? Tells you how sh1t the public schools must really be.

You just made a better argument for vouchers than I did.
 
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