FACTS for the Cal has underachieved crowd

[HoptownCat93]

I mean we can talk about Cal's 10 years at Kentucky...maybe we should have 1-2 more titles, but honestly how can you get mad at losing in 1 game scenerios and ignore all the other evidence. 7 coaches have won titles during Cal's last 10 years at Kentucky...lets compare him to his peers.

Yes I'm using everyone's worst spin vs. Cal's best...but its to show that we're in good shape and other programs aren't perfect...we'd be complaining with everyone else's results too.

-Calipari
Most tournament wins in the last 10 years.
Most Final Fours in the last 10 years.
4 Final Fours and 1 title

-Coach K
He has the 2 titles but those are his only 2 Final Four appearances.
1st round losses to Lehigh and Mercer


-Jim Calhoun
He wasn't here for the decade..but his program went to the NIT the next year and I think on probabtion

-Rick Pitino
2 Final Fours and 1 title
In perspective, 17 years and only 3* Final Fours. In the record books, 1 for 17

-Kevin Ollie
Won a title and is now fired.

-Jay Wright
Only 2 times in 10 years has Villinova made it past the first weekend. A losing season included.

-Roy Williams
2 Final Fours and 1 title. Cal's been a bit better this decade.

-Tony Bennett
Won a title a year after losing to a 16 seed...


And how about our friend Bill Self
2 Final fours and no titles in 10 years...
No titles this decade and he's had:
Xavier Henry, Josh Selby, Thomas Robinson, Perry Ellis, Andrew Wiggins, Joel Embiid, Wayne Selden, Frank Mason, Kelly Oubre, Cliff Alexander, Devonte Graham, Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk, CArlton Bragg, Cheick Diallo, LaGerald Vick, Malik Newman, Josh Jackson, Azubuke, Quentin Grimes, Devon Dotson, Dedric Lawson
And he's had plenty of those guys stay for multiple year too...

 

[TNCatfanforever]

Not to get in a dispute but using the short comings of others doesn’t excuse Cal. He has had more lottery picks and thus more talented rosters so I contend he has underachieved. I think he has done a good job like Pitino considering the mess both inherited but we all expected more than 1 title. Didn’t you?

 

[RunninRichie]

Not to get in a dispute but using the short comings of others doesn’t excuse Cal. He has had more lottery picks and thus more talented rosters so I contend he has underachieved. I think he has done a good job like Pitino considering the mess both inherited but we all expected more than 1 title. Didn’t you?

So how come everyone was so high on cal after beating Michigan state and as soon as the team plays bad against a inferior opponent everyone’s opinions change on cal in a heartbeat?

 

[ruppcat]

I mean we can talk about Cal's 10 years at Kentucky...maybe we should have 1-2 more titles, but honestly how can you get mad at losing in 1 game scenerios and ignore all the other evidence. 7 coaches have won titles during Cal's last 10 years at Kentucky...lets compare him to his peers.

Yes I'm using everyone's worst spin vs. Cal's best...but its to show that we're in good shape and other programs aren't perfect...we'd be complaining with everyone else's results too.

-Calipari
Most tournament wins in the last 10 years.
Most Final Fours in the last 10 years.
4 Final Fours and 1 title

-Coach K
He has the 2 titles but those are his only 2 Final Four appearances.
1st round losses to Lehigh and Mercer


-Jim Calhoun
He wasn't here for the decade..but his program went to the NIT the next year and I think on probabtion

-Rick Pitino
2 Final Fours and 1 title
In perspective, 17 years and only 3* Final Fours. In the record books, 1 for 17

-Kevin Ollie
Won a title and is now fired.

-Jay Wright
Only 2 times in 10 years has Villinova made it past the first weekend. A losing season included.

-Roy Williams
2 Final Fours and 1 title. Cal's been a bit better this decade.

-Tony Bennett
Won a title a year after losing to a 16 seed...


And how about our friend Bill Self
2 Final fours and no titles in 10 years...
No titles this decade and he's had:
Xavier Henry, Josh Selby, Thomas Robinson, Perry Ellis, Andrew Wiggins, Joel Embiid, Wayne Selden, Frank Mason, Kelly Oubre, Cliff Alexander, Devonte Graham, Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk, CArlton Bragg, Cheick Diallo, LaGerald Vick, Malik Newman, Josh Jackson, Azubuke, Quentin Grimes, Devon Dotson, Dedric Lawson
And he's had plenty of those guys stay for multiple year too...

IF UK had won it with Wall and company and then in 2015 and possibly 2017 there'd be not as much fussing.

I think if Cal put more emphasis on UK than the NBA that'd take some of the heat off.

Do I still want him as UK's coach? Yep.

 

[ruppcat]

So how come everyone was so high on cal after beating Michigan state and as soon as the team plays bad against a inferior opponent everyone’s opinions change on cal in a heartbeat?

I'll spell it out for you..

K E N T U C K Y

 

[HagginHall1999]

I am so tired of these topics...not directed towards you OP. It is just over and over...I should probably quit responding, so it is my fault, no one else's.

All of your points are 100% valid.

It is just that people who don't like Cal or think he has underachieved or has lost a step or doesn't recruit the right players or is a bad in game coach or can't recruit anymore or doesn't start the right people...will point this out and the wheel will go round and round.

Most reasonable folks know we are lucky to have a coach like Calipari. He has won big here and we are generally one of the Top 10 teams in the country every single season. We all wish we had at least one more title...I am sure, believe it or not, he does too, even more than us...but it isn't easy and nothing is guaranteed. It is single elimination and players have to make plays (and free throws). This is why I don't let him not having more than one cloud my judgement of him as our coach.

We will go through a major let down whenever Cal leaves (this is highly likely) and the same people that appreciate Cal now will miss him even more then.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

So how come everyone was so high on cal after beating Michigan state and as soon as the team plays bad against a inferior opponent everyone’s opinions change on cal in a heartbeat?

Because fandom makes people a bit crazy.

Kansas, Duke and UNC have all lost several games to teams like Evansville.. and they did it in March.. not November when our players are still learning what each other's names are.

While this hurts seeding opportunities, and it was certainly embarrassing, losing this game was more beneficial than winning it. Many of our teams don't get a wake-up call until later.. we got one early.

 

[bthaunert]

I have zero doubt that Cal is the guy to coach here. I also have no problem recognizing his tournament success is front loaded in his tenure at UK. It can also be frustrating to have our bracket open up 2 years in a row to no avail. Big year this year with a Final Four caliber team. Will only get more restless if we don’t go for a fifth year in a row...as silly as that sounds.

 

[RobJones1978]

None of those guys have had Cals talent. In fact, not even close besides Duke. There’s no doubt he’s won and underachieved. Only one time has the disparity in talent from one team to the rest of the teams been close to this large and UCLA won 10 titles.

 

[Deli owl]

Bring me Billy Clyde.....

 

[TNCatfanforever]

So how come everyone was so high on cal after beating Michigan state and as soon as the team plays bad against a inferior opponent everyone’s opinions change on cal in a heartbeat?

I was happy with the win but didn’t see the greatness of number 1. MSU was short handed without Langford

 

[BigKari]

Has Cal underachieved my expectations from when he got here? Yes because I expected 5 titles in 10 years. But I was 17 when Cal was hired, so my expectations were extremely unrealistic. I do know that we came *this close* to 4 other titles though, and I don’t think any other hire would have achieved that. Cal was the best man for the job, screw the expectations of a 17 year old. I don’t expect another title while Cal is coaching at UK. I don’t think he’ll be here much longer, I would guess 4 or 5 more seasons after this one. That would be a 15 year tenure. I would hope he leaves here with a couple more final 4s and a title, and I think it can be done. When it’s all said and done, it will have been 15 very exciting years. I have so many memories of big games that I have attended in the Cal era. I’m no longer letting anyone steal my joy.

 

[STL_Cat]

You’re just picking at a scab now.

 

[Mojocat]

Not to get in a dispute but using the short comings of others doesn’t excuse Cal. He has had more lottery picks and thus more talented rosters so I contend he has underachieved.

The OP compares Calipari to the very best coaches in the game. If they have "short comings" and Cal (arguably the best record of them all) has "underachieved".......have to wonder who you think has done a good job. Maybe your expectations relative to a single elimination tournament are too high. Basically, you've said they all suck. When people roll their eyes at BBN, it's this kind of thing that causes it.

Second point, where does inexperience fit into the equation? "more lottery picks = more talent". Does experience not count at all?

 

[STL_Cat]

I think we all agree that Bill Self is overrated. Pretty much nobody here wants that dude. I mean we all make fun of Kansas. But thanks anyway for the comparison.

 

[JRS_OH_Cat]

None of those guys have had Cals talent. In fact, not even close besides Duke. There’s no doubt he’s won and underachieved. Only one time has the disparity in talent from one team to the rest of the teams been close to this large and UCLA won 10 titles.

I disagree with you premise Cal had more talent. There is raw talent and experienced talent. Cal generally has very talented inexperienced players for 1 year because those players have the chance to make millions after 1 year. So, those players have one shot to win it all with no prior NCAA or tournament experience. That’s difficult to do. And for those that say go the 3-4 year player route, please tell me who has won multiple championships with that formula over a decade or more. Jay Wright has won 2 in about 2 decades which isn’t better than Cal’s 1 in about a decade.

if Cal had AD and KAT for 4 years each he’d likely have UCLA numbers.

 

[kybassfan]

At Calpari guy, him a suq coach. At guy, him ain’t wun 2 champeenchups on account a he ain’t sheeut. Em pumpin boys, em er guys get all em sttupid numbers. They’s got sheeut fer brains cuse thayuns ont knowd at 2 champeenchups is all at be matter in to us uns bassetball uper genusus. SPIT.

At Capari guy, him ought be farred and runned off.

 

[RobJones1978]

I disagree with you premise Cal had more talent. There is raw talent and experienced talent. Cal generally has very talented inexperienced players for 1 year because those players have the chance to make millions after 1 year. So, those players have one shot to win it all with no prior NCAA or tournament experience. That’s difficult to do. And for those that say go the 3-4 year player route, please tell me who has won multiple championships with that formula over a decade or more. Jay Wright has won 2 in about 2 decades which isn’t better than Cal’s 1 in about a decade.

if Cal had AD and KAT for 4 years each he’d likely have UCLA numbers.

Cal has had that level of talent every year. And that argument isn’t valid because you can’t just give Cal his players for 4 years and not everyone else. You also can’t say Cal would even have the same guys. It’s unlikely AD even comes if Cousins is a junior. Your scenario only works in a vacuum. Cal has had far more talent every season than almost every other team.

 

[KyFaninNC]

At Calpari guy, him a suq coach. At guy, him ain’t wun 2 chapmenchumps on account a he ain’t sheeut. Em pumpin boys, em er guys get all em sttupid numbers. They’s got sheeut fer brains cuse thayuns ont knowd at 2 champeenchups is all at be matter in to us uns bassetball uper genusus. SPIT.

At Capari guy, him ought be farred and runned off.

English your second language?

 

[kybassfan]

The OP compares Calipari to the very best coaches in the game. If they have "short comings" and Cal (arguably the best record of them all) has "underachieved".......have to wonder who you think has done a good job. Maybe your expectations relative to a single elimination tournament are too high. Basically, you've said they all suck. When people roll their eyes at BBN, it's this kind of thing that causes it.

Second point, where does inexperience fit into the equation? "more lottery picks = more talent". Does experience not count at all?

See, this here feller, him stupid bringin in all stupid facts cause’n him ont know bout 2 chumpeenchups as all as matters. SPIT

Y’all fellers thinkin all’em facts is umportant. Y’all lubin Capari and at udder basball dat umm NBA mor’in yus lub us Cayuts.

 

[HagginHall1999]

None of those guys have had Cals talent. In fact, not even close besides Duke. There’s no doubt he’s won and underachieved. Only one time has the disparity in talent from one team to the rest of the teams been close to this large and UCLA won 10 titles.

You mean when Lew Alcinder, Bill Walton and company stayed in school and played 3 years?

Wonder how many titles Cal has if Wall, Cousins, Knight, MKG, Davis, Towns, etc played 3 years instead of 1?

I get the point you are trying to make but it isn't on equal ground. Not to mention Duke has had a lot of talent the last 5 or 6 years too....and so have a lot of other schools. There is a hell of a lot more parity now than 50 years ago.

 

[Mojocat]

I disagree with you premise Cal had more talent. There is raw talent and experienced talent. Cal generally has very talented inexperienced players for 1 year because those players have the chance to make millions after 1 year. So, those players have one shot to win it all with no prior NCAA or tournament experience. That’s difficult to do. And for those that say go the 3-4 year player route, please tell me who has won multiple championships with that formula over a decade or more. Jay Wright has won 2 in about 2 decades which isn’t better than Cal’s 1 in about a decade.

if Cal had AD and KAT for 4 years each he’d likely have UCLA numbers.

This of course is right. Every great player he's had has been 18 years old. People always leave that out. It's reasonable to say, well, he chooses to do that. Right. But to not acknowledge what he's trying to do - and in fact purposely blurring the point by referencing draft picks and future all pros, etc, - is disingenuous.

 

[kybassfan]

Cal has had that level of talent every year. And that argument isn’t valid because you can’t just give Cal his players for 4 years and not everyone else. You also can’t say Cal would even have the same guys. It’s unlikely AD even comes if Cousins is a junior. Your scenario only works in a vacuum. Cal has had far more talent every season than almost every other team.

You left out youngest. Yeah, I know you did on purpose.

 

[Elliott Tim]

Not to get in a dispute but using the short comings of others doesn’t excuse Cal. He has had more lottery picks and thus more talented rosters so I contend he has underachieved. I think he has done a good job like Pitino considering the mess both inherited but we all expected more than 1 title. Didn’t you?

I hoped for more than 1 title, buI didn't expect anything.
Hard to win 6 in a row regardless of talent.

 

[wardlow]

IF UK had won it with Wall and company and then in 2015 and possibly 2017 there'd be not as much fussing.

I think if Cal put more emphasis on UK than the NBA that'd take some of the heat off.

Do I still want him as UK's coach? Yep.

I think people would still be fussing if he had won with wall, 2015, and 2017. Unfortunately the fan base is fickle and some might be partially insane.

Cal has represented the University well, changed a lot of players lives for the better, and seemingly done things the “right way” compared to other programs.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Good stats, OP.

There's been a number of these types of threads recently. I would encourage people who make these threads to actually list names of posters who they are directed at.

I've been here for 16 years or so (counting my time under a different name in the early 2000s), and outside of maybe a half-dozen posters, I'm not sure how widespread the anti-Cal stuff is from the perspective of regular posters.

Who exactly are these anti-Calipari people? Anyone care to make a running list?

 

[Elliott Tim]

I think people would still be fussing if he had won with wall, 2015, and 2017. Unfortunately the fan base is fickle and some might be partially insane.

Cal has represented the University well, changed a lot of players lives for the better, and seemingly done things the “right way” compared to other programs.

You see the big picture quite well.

 

[Atrain7732]

Good stats, OP.

There's been a number of these types of threads recently. I would encourage people who make these threads to actually list names of posters who they are directed at.

I've been here for 16 years or so (counting my time under a different name in the early 2000s), and outside of maybe a half-dozen posters, I'm not sure how widespread the anti-Cal stuff is from the perspective of regular posters.

Who exactly are these anti-Calipari people? Anyone care to make a running list?

I actually like this idea. Not sure if you are being serious but I think a thread calling out those who have been very vocal with their outlandish hyperbolic rhetoric would be great. Those who are calling for Cal to be fired and saying he doesn’t care anymore and can’t recruit should be proud to put their names on the list.

I’m firmly not on that list. I’m thrilled with Cal’s tenure here. Good god we are a heartbreaking loss from an undefeated season for shites sake. Add in another championship game loss and we have been in the hunt LITERALLY MORE THAN ANY OTHER TEAM FOR CHAMPIONSHIPS. Save all the other BS—Coach K has one more title and he got gifted the one where the brackets opened and they took advantage.

so all you idiots, including some in this very thread, who have deluded yourselves to the point where you really expect to win a national title every other year—sack up and put your names on the sack Cal list. If you do so and Cal completely quits on this season and UK tanks, just think of the heroes you will be.

 

[UK_born_b_bread]

I mean we can talk about Cal's 10 years at Kentucky...maybe we should have 1-2 more titles, but honestly how can you get mad at losing in 1 game scenerios and ignore all the other evidence. 7 coaches have won titles during Cal's last 10 years at Kentucky...lets compare him to his peers.

Yes I'm using everyone's worst spin vs. Cal's best...but its to show that we're in good shape and other programs aren't perfect...we'd be complaining with everyone else's results too.

-Calipari
Most tournament wins in the last 10 years.
Most Final Fours in the last 10 years.
4 Final Fours and 1 title

-Coach K
He has the 2 titles but those are his only 2 Final Four appearances.
1st round losses to Lehigh and Mercer


-Jim Calhoun
He wasn't here for the decade..but his program went to the NIT the next year and I think on probabtion

-Rick Pitino
2 Final Fours and 1 title
In perspective, 17 years and only 3* Final Fours. In the record books, 1 for 17

-Kevin Ollie
Won a title and is now fired.

-Jay Wright
Only 2 times in 10 years has Villinova made it past the first weekend. A losing season included.

-Roy Williams
2 Final Fours and 1 title. Cal's been a bit better this decade.

-Tony Bennett
Won a title a year after losing to a 16 seed...


And how about our friend Bill Self
2 Final fours and no titles in 10 years...
No titles this decade and he's had:
Xavier Henry, Josh Selby, Thomas Robinson, Perry Ellis, Andrew Wiggins, Joel Embiid, Wayne Selden, Frank Mason, Kelly Oubre, Cliff Alexander, Devonte Graham, Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk, CArlton Bragg, Cheick Diallo, LaGerald Vick, Malik Newman, Josh Jackson, Azubuke, Quentin Grimes, Devon Dotson, Dedric Lawson
And he's had plenty of those guys stay for multiple year too...

You conveniently failed to mention john’s NIT

 

[Estil]

Folks a freak upset on the second game of a looooong season is no reason to panic. We had that humiliating upset at Clown U in 2012...yet we shook it up and took home the gold that year! We had a second game loss in 1996 (I still consider that the greatest UK team in my lifetime (born 1980); yes even if we had finished the job in 2015...seriously with only two exceptions the 1996 Untouchables played like they had invincibility stars from Super Mario Bros)...but we didn't let that stop us either.

 

[UK_born_b_bread]

At Calpari guy, him a suq coach. At guy, him ain’t wun 2 champeenchups on account a he ain’t sheeut. Em pumpin boys, em er guys get all em sttupid numbers. They’s got sheeut fer brains cuse thayuns ont knowd at 2 champeenchups is all at be matter in to us uns bassetball uper genusus. SPIT.

At Capari guy, him ought be farred and runned off.

Agreed. Fire the failure.

 

[kybassfan]

Agreed. Fire the failure.

Spit. Damn straight corn pone. You goner coach up em er boys? You seems lik wun nim bassetbal suppa genusus.

 

[skcatfan]

Agreed. Fire the failure.

If only there was an IQ requirement to weed out people like you from the fan base.

 

[UK_born_b_bread]

There is. It’s called the Admissions Department. I got in...and now I’ll wait.

 

[skcatfan]

There is. It’s called the Admissions Department. I got in...and now I’ll wait.

Ooh you got me there Einstein lol. Everybody knows college campuses are occupied by only the best and the brightest.

 

[UK_born_b_bread]

Ooh you got me there Einstein lol. Everybody knows college campuses are occupied by only the best and the brightest.

Why do you root for us (but unwittingly bring us down) if you didn’t even go to Kentucky?

 

[skcatfan]

Why do you root for us (but unwittingly bring us down) if you didn’t even go to Kentucky?

Ok I just read some of the other thread you started. No way you’re really this stupid. Just a very amateurish troll effort.

 

[TurnipDaBeet]

So how come everyone was so high on cal after beating Michigan state and as soon as the team plays bad against a inferior opponent everyone’s opinions change on cal in a heartbeat?

High on the team. High on the win.

That hot served L at home vs a mid major is on Cal. Not the players.

 

[kybassfan]

High on the team. High on the win.

That hot served L at home vs a mid major is on Cal. Not the players.

Cal miss all those shots, get bad rebound position, double team in bad circumstances, make those turn overs, etc? This was on the whole team. Don’t fit your Cal hate agenda there CLODite?

 

[TurnipDaBeet]

Love Cal KYubbyFishing

We overwhelmingly had the most talent.

That hot L isnt on the players.

Got outcoached. All there is to it.

Stop trying to divide the fan base

Please & TY