FACTS: Bill Self at Kansas....

[gracetoyou]

Kansas fans have made me sick today with their cockiness over winning a recruiting battle...still giddy over this years Big 12 title I guess.Guess it helped them forget getting thumped by 35pts.

Did some looking. In Bill Self's 11 seasons at Kansas. This does not include his 2nd round loss in this years tourney:




COUNTING THIS SEASON: 6 out of 12 seasons he HAS NOT made it out of the 2nd round.

2 final 4's in 11 seasons VS. Cal's 4 Final 4's in 6 seasons.


5-STAR PLAYERS IN THE NBA & THEIR DRAFT STATUS
Grade is based on:
The NBA Prep Point System


0 = Undrafted
1 = Drafted in the second round
2 = Drafted in the first round
3 = Lottery pick
4 = Top 5
5 = Number one pick








If I'm being recruited by both schools....it's a no brainer.

 

[Ghettobird]

That cannot be the case, Diallo himself said that Self is the best at developing big men. I agree completely it's a no brainer.

 

[Smashcat]

That cannot be the case, Diallo himself said that Self is the best at developing big men. I agree completely it's a no brainer.

He said that but I think deep inside he only likes the idea of winning the Big 12.

 

[wcc31]

The only facts you need to post are...

23-6
8>3

Kansas fans act like another lil brother to us, which I guess makes sense considering what I posted above.

 

[fluidounces2]

Do your facts also address the most tournament wins since 2000? That would certainly be an interesting FACT.

 

[wcc31]

Do your facts also address the most tournament wins since 2000? That would certainly be an interesting FACT.

No, but they address lamest timeframe arguments.

Blueblood trophy case. Midmajor complex.

 

[foreverandaday]

This thread is as bad as the crybaby Kansas fans. So he stole a recruit from Kentucky. Big f'n deal. It isn't the first, and it wont be the last. Pretty sure Cal isn't at home crying about this. He's doing fine as it is.

 

[hoodro]

Do your facts also address the most tournament wins since 2000? That would certainly be an interesting FACT.

Since 2000? Well, since we're raising the subject of history, why stop at the year 2000?

Here are a few facts for you; most tournament appearances, most tournament wins, and best tournament winning % of all time. What KU can do for 15 years, UK can do it better for +60 years.

 

[gracetoyou]

Do your facts also address the most tournament wins since 2000? That would certainly be an interesting FACT.

We're talking Self versus Cal...and it's not even close.

 

[Orville Boggs]

The only fact for Bill Self while at Kansas is that he has joined Hair Club for Men.

 

[gracetoyou]

This thread is as bad as the crybaby Kansas fans. So he stole a recruit from Kentucky. Big f'n deal. It isn't the first, and it wont be the last. Pretty sure Cal isn't at home crying about this. He's doing fine as it is.

Just pointing out some facts to our board full of Kansas trolls tonight. Might as well tick a few off.

 

[jmmcgr02]

How much developing does the college coach do for a 5 star player in 1 year? Did self get wigginns drafted #1 overall! Or Embiid #3?
But look at the 4 star players. Jamari Traylor is about to become the first big man under self at ku to play 4 years and not get drafted. Darnel jackson, sasha kaun, cole aldrich, the morris twins, thomas robinson, jeff withey. None were 5 stars, but they all were drafted and made $$.

 

[foreverandaday]

Kansas fans have already acknowledged they are inferior to Kentucky in this generation with Calipari. Look at the Phog. They are dancing around because they actually beat Kentucky at something. Does Bill Self retire with a win against a Calipari coached Kentucky team? That could very well be a "No". They just got their ass kicked by WItchita State, not only losing in the first weekend, again, but getting their ass kicked by a mid major team from the state of Kansas.

Kansas is legitimate. Bill Self is a great coach. But nobody around college basketball takes Kansas seriously when it comes to March. Mid Major teams WANT to be in their bracket. They had 1 good year with a stellar team, and one overachieving team in which they lost to Kentucky in the Championship. Other than those 2 runs their March history is littered with underachieving and disappointment.

And they know it.

 

[foreverandaday]

Bill Self has developed talent and it isn't even debatable. He is the best at developing Big Men in the game. On the contrary his PG situation is a little questionable at best. It doesn't surprise me at all that Diallo wanted to go to Kansas. Kansas is a machine and developing interior players because of their style.

On the flip side, you couldn't pay a legitimate 5 star PG to go to Kansas. They want nothing to do with them.

 

[DwayneMeighan]

How much developing does the college coach do for a 5 star player in 1 year? Did self get wigginns drafted #1 overall! Or Embiid #3?
But look at the 4 star players. Jamari Traylor is about to become the first big man under self at ku to play 4 years and not get drafted. Darnel jackson, sasha kaun, cole aldrich, the morris twins, thomas robinson, jeff withey. None were 5 stars, but they all were drafted and made $$.

Speaking of 4 star players:

Marcus Morris - ranked 29th
Thomas Robinson - ranked 31st
Devin Booker - ranked 29th

So, if Self gets credit for turning 4stars into lotto picks in three years, then Cal gets triple the credit for turning a 4* into a oad lotto pick. Again, as already pointed out, whatever Self/KU can do, Cal/UK can do much better

 

[Halsteadkid]

Here is the great thing with the SEC/Big12 Challenge in January2016, hopefully we will be able to settle this like Basketball Blue Bloods...on the court. Kentucky will have Top-10 team next season. Kentucky doesn't have the depth to platoon like last season but Cal will have a strong 7- or 8-man rotation. Kansas will still be a young team. But it should be a great game. Come to Phog Allen Fieldhouse.

 

[gracetoyou]

Kansas fans have already acknowledged they are inferior to Kentucky in this generation with Calipari. Look at the Phog. They are dancing around because they actually beat Kentucky at something. Does Bill Self retire with a win against a Calipari coached Kentucky team? That could very well be a "No". They just got their ass kicked by WItchita State, not only losing in the first weekend, again, but getting their ass kicked by a mid major team from the state of Kansas.

Kansas is legitimate. Bill Self is a great coach. But nobody around college basketball takes Kansas seriously when it comes to March. Mid Major teams WANT to be in their bracket. They had 1 good year with a stellar team, and one overachieving team in which they lost to Kentucky in the Championship. Other than those 2 runs their March history is littered with underachieving and disappointment.

And they know it.

I used to think that. But the proof is in the pudding. If the NCAA tourney is the measure it's hard to justify that he's a great coach & not make it out of the 2nd round in 6 of 12 seasons.

 

[gracetoyou]

Here is the great thing with the SEC/Big12 Challenge in January2016, hopefully we will be able to settle this like Basketball Blue Bloods...on the court. Kentucky will have Top-10 team next season. Kentucky doesn't have the depth to platoon like last season but Cal will have a strong 7- or 8-man rotation. Kansas will still be a young team. But it should be a great game. Come to Phog Allen Fieldhouse.

I thought we kind of settled it in the 2012 championship & thumping you last season by 35. Has Kansas even beat UK while Cal has been there?

 

[Streetor]

Maybe stop throwing a fit about losing a recruit to KU and the fans won't come here.

Food for thought.

 

[foreverandaday]

Here is the great thing with the SEC/Big12 Challenge in January2016, hopefully we will be able to settle this like Basketball Blue Bloods...on the court. Kentucky will have Top-10 team next season. Kentucky doesn't have the depth to platoon like last season but Cal will have a strong 7- or 8-man rotation. Kansas will still be a young team. But it should be a great game. Come to Phog Allen Fieldhouse.

How many more times is Cal going to have to beat Kansas with Kentucky for it to be settled?

 

[foreverandaday]

I used to think that. But the proof is in the pudding. If the NCAA tourney is the measure it's hard to justify that he's a great coach & not make it out of the 2nd round in 6 of 12 seasons.

Sorry but that is just ignorant stupid. Self's lowest tournament seed in 12 years with Kansas is a 4 seed. He not only doesn't ever miss the tournament, he doesn't ever get lower than a 4 seed. That's just stupid good proof that the guy can coach. If you're going to say otherwise because of 6 games in 12 seasons, you're putting up the worst argument ever.

 

[Halsteadkid]

How many more times is Cal going to have to beat Kansas with Kentucky for it to be settled?

Let's play every season.

 

[foreverandaday]

You better worry about Witchita State before you dare compete with the big boys in blue every year.

*yawn* Kentucky fans will start taking you seriously when you actually beat them.

 

[Halsteadkid]

Yawn or no Yawn, the Wildcats most likely will travel to Lawrence Kansas in January. I will watch the game even if you are napping that night. I will message you with the score.

 

[Kiimohawk]

^^^^and you stole my avatar.

Today has made me sad for both fanbases. Hopefully the stupidity dies down on both sides soon.

 

[foreverandaday]

I will assume whatever happens that game you will have no interest traveling to Kentucky to play considering you cannot compete with them on a neutral floor, and may not even beat them at home.

Kentucky is not Witchita St, and for as good as Self is at Kansas, he may not be the best coach in his own state.

 

[DwayneMeighan]

Sorry but that is just ignorant stupid. Self's lowest tournament seed in 12 years with Kansas is a 4 seed. He not only doesn't ever miss the tournament, he doesn't ever get lower than a 4 seed. That's just stupid good proof that the guy can coach. If you're going to say otherwise because of 6 games in 12 seasons, you're putting up the worst argument ever.

Getting those high seeds means absolutely jack. This game is all about March, not the conference season, so what matters is what you actually do with those seeds.

In 12 years Self/KU has lost to a team seeded five spots or lower a whopping 50% (six years) of the time. You know what that would get you at UK? Not an extension that's for sure.

You guys keep having that loser mentality and pretending the conference season means more than the NCAA tournament, and UK will keep hanging banners. There's a reason that the count is 8-3 .

 

[foreverandaday]

Was Cal getting an extension when he lost to Robert Morris in the NIT? Or do you just give him a free pass for that?

 

[foreverandaday]

You guys keep having that loser mentality and pretending the conference season means more than the NCAA tournament, and UK will keep hanging banners.

I had to laugh at this. Cal has 1 banner. Not "Banners". Anybody paying attention to this thread can see it's a Cal vs Self thread.

 

[Halsteadkid]

I have been hoping the stupidity to die down for years. Both fan bases have great fans. Both fan bases have some interesting fringes. I have never been to Rupp. I would like to go someday. Wichita State was a strong team the last two years; gave you guys a good game two years ago. When they maintain that level for a few years, the Kansas fan base will give them respect like we give Iowa State or Michigan State or Kentucky. There is a strong number of fans that understand good basketball and give teams the respect that they deserve. Recruiting battles always seem to be bitter though. Seems more personal.

 

[DwayneMeighan]

Was Cal getting an extension when he lost to Robert Morris in the NIT? Or do you just give him a free pass for that?

No, Cal was getting an extension when he was going to two Finals Fours, a NC Runner up, and an NC in 5 years. A run that Self will never see in his career.

 

[foreverandaday]

No, Cal was getting an extension when he was going to two Finals Fours, a NC Runner up, and an NC in 5 years. A run that Self will never see in his career.

So just the 1 banner? Perhaps we can get an Izzo, or Coach K fan to come in and really tell us wtf is up.

 

[DwayneMeighan]

I had to laugh at this. Cal has 1 banner. Not "Banners". Anybody paying attention to this thread can see it's a Cal vs Self thread.

It was the KU fan that brought program history into it and started the whole "since 2000" talk. Pretty sure Self wasn't at KU in 2000.

Oh, and you can drop the act. Your Robert Morris comment completely gave you away. That NIT loss came on the heels of an NC, followed by what UK has done the past five years, so pretty much all UK fans give Cal a pass for that.

 

[foreverandaday]

That Kansas fan is an idiot.

And LOL Kentucky missed the tournament, and you want to #butNCyearearlier?

Everyone knows programs like Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, North Carolina #butmaybenotnow, only care about 1 thing. National Champions. Cal could have really made a statement by winning his second one this year. Instead, he's stuck on 1, and just might be remembered for having the greatest team ever NOT win a National Championship. That Kentucky team this year might have suffered the greatest heartbreak of any team ever for not completing their task. We will never see another college basketball team like the Kentucky team of this year. Just an amazing team and I cannot believe they don't have the NC to show for it.

 

[gracetoyou]

Sorry but that is just ignorant stupid. Self's lowest tournament seed in 12 years with Kansas is a 4 seed. He not only doesn't ever miss the tournament, he doesn't ever get lower than a 4 seed. That's just stupid good proof that the guy can coach. If you're going to say otherwise because of 6 games in 12 seasons, you're putting up the worst argument ever.

Are you serious? This has to be the dumbest post I've ever read in my life. So, getting a higher seed in the tournament means more than actually winning games in the tournament? Ok....thanks for clarifying that!

 

[qtaylor86]

Those 2 Kentucky teams we lost to, 99% of the teams in the last decade would have lost too also.

 

[Fancatstik]

You win some you lose some, we win way more than we lose. I wanted Diallo more than anyone from this class but KU beat us out. That's life. Congrats to them.
PS: I hate whining babies and sore losers more than I hate KU.

 

[ArmyWildcat81]

Cal and Self both elite recruiters. The first two to go after "one and dones", before Coach K began ruining basketball by recruiting basketball mercenaries.

 

[hoodro]

Was Cal getting an extension when he lost to Robert Morris in the NIT? Or do you just give him a free pass for that?

No, Cal was getting an extension when he was going to two Finals Fours, a NC Runner up, and an NC in 5 years. A run that Self will never see in his career.

So just the 1 banner? Perhaps we can get an Izzo, or Coach K fan to come in and really tell us wtf is up.

Let me get this straight. You're not impressed with Cal's run of two Final Fours, a runner-up, and a title all in a five year span, yet, earlier in this thread you were just bragging about Self being a good coach because he gets high seeds? Am I reading that correctly?

And when it comes to the NIT, every UK fan should give Cal a pass. The man took UK to a Final Four in his 2nd season, UK's first FF in 13 years (longest FF drought in program history), and in his 3rd year he won a title, UK's first in 14 years. Then, he turns around and follows that up with another FF and a runner-up in the next three years.

That's one of the best runs in program history, at a program that in known for its great history. You're damn right he should get pass for the NIT. Matter of fact, if you even have to question it, then I have to question your fandom.

 

[Willy4UK]

lol at Kansas. Best at developing big men? Comedy. Kansas fans are whack jobs with a Little man complex.

Self has wasted enough elite talent to make it a felony. Dude should be in prison for being an awful elite developer.

I will give him credit. He can turn those 4*s into late 1st rounders.