Expect a run-heavy offense this season from Stoops/Dawson

[jnewc2]

ESPN has a good article talking about Shannon Dawson and what attracted Stoops to him as well as what we can expect from Stoops/Dawson's offense this season. The main thing I took away from the article is that once again Stoops will be playing a big role in influencing how much of the running game we see from the "Air Raid" this year.

From the ESPN article about why Stoops chose Dawson as OC:


"The deciding factor? Not speed or eye-popping passing numbers. It was West Virginia's recent emphasis on the power-running game.."

"The thing I liked from the style of offense they were doing is they brought some physicality and some run-game to this style of offense," Stoops, a defensive-minded coach, explained. "


"Said Dawson: "That's probably one of the bigger reasons Coach Stoops hired me here. When we talked, I talked just as much about being physical and punching people in the mouth as throwing it down the field."[/B]

Reading between the lines a bit from many of Stoops' quotes from this year and last, it seems that this should end a lot of the debate as to why we seemed to be forcing the running game at times when we had an offensive coordinator in Neal Brown known for his high-powered passing attacks at all of his other stops.

There is a concereted effort on the part of Stoops to have a balanced, "physical" offense (which is a good thing--to a degree) and I think now that Brown is gone our fans should recognize the reason behind why we seemed to be "forcing" a running game that wasn't there many times last year. The answer: Stoops desire for a balanced, physical offense (which is a good thing, don't get me wrong). I just hope that in the end Stoops learned from some of his mistakes last year and understands that sometimes you can't play straight-up smash mouth football with teams like Georgia and LSU, that you need to pass to set up the run instead of vice-versa when you're a team like Kentucky trying to win with a balanced, physical, predictable offense against a significantly more talented opponent virtually every week in the SEC. That no matter how badly you want to be balanced and run the ball like Alabama, you can't be perfectly balanced when you don't have the offensive line and dominant defense of a team like Alabama or LSU.

At Kentucky, I believe for us to gain an edge on our opponents, we need to place an emphasis on the pass (while still having a strong running game). I think 60-40 pass/run would be around the ideal ratio for our team. But last year (in an effort to be balanced/physical) we ran the ball more than we passed (even though our pass game was the stronger aspect of our team).

I just hope this year, that if there are more stretches in the game (and season) where we seem to be force-feeding the run game with a relatively conservative, predictable run-dominated offense with little-to-no success, that we'll understand the reason for it this time around (and maybe send Neal Brown some apology letters while we're doing so).

Also, for those of us on here that complained about Towles lack of "zip" on his passes last year, it seems that our new offensive coordinator strongly disagrees:


"As far as arm talent goes, I haven't been around anybody with that arm strength," Dawson said of Towles.


Here's a link to the ESPN article:
http://espn.go.com/blog/sec/post/_/id/99052/dawson-takes-no-conscience-approach-at-kentucky?ex_cid=espnapi_public

 

[ctroberts1024]

I don't think your title portrays what you're saying. You say expect a heavy run oriented offense but then say 60:40 pass to run ratio. Nonetheless, probably the thing Dawson has said that has stuck out more than anything to me is that it doesn't matter if he has to throw it 80 times or run it 80 times, he's gonna do what it takes to win the game. We may be an air raid offense but we are gonna be very multiple with what we can do. Having a tight end helps out more than you can imagine.

 

[Poetax]

I would disagree with the OP's statement that our passing attack was better then our ground game last year. Injuries to our receivers put walk ons as starters, oline hardly ever gave the QB time to go through his receivers and defenses knew all we had was the short or medium passes which allowed SEC teams to dominate us in that area during some games.

 

[3632]

I don't doubt that there may have been some people question Towles arm strength because I've seen everything under the sun questioned on here. But even without Dawson's pointing it out, it's clearly not his issue. This offense requires accuracy and a quick release..two things Patrick needs quite a bit of work on. That's why the job isn't his right now. Let's hope that either Barker has the skill set or Patrick can improve those things enough to get it done. As Dawson points out about arm strength in the article, "That's got little to do with playing football productively."

 

[gg4uk]

This is nothing new. Dawson has stated the physicality that WV added to the offense last year. But, he also has stated how he loves passing the ball much more than running it. I don't think his comments means more running. I think it means to be more physical when running.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

A run based spread is much tougher to stop than a pass based spread. You have to defend the pass in either, but having that back running against a defense spread thin is tough to stop. Meyer runs a run based offense, Malzahn or ever how he spells it, runs a a run based offense with the qb having 4 options. The real threat of a run play slows the rush down and hold LBs. You will see what AU does, every play starts with the threat of a speed sweep, then the qb reads an inside dive to the back, the he runs down the line and either keeps, pitches to the speed option guy, if the DB comes up to defend that he then goes downfield to the clearing WR. Its very tough to stop and I couldn't believe we held them to 7, scored on the opening drive.

 

[2bunnies]

I must agree that your title is extremely misleading. 60/40 IS NOT "a run heavy offense". Besides, CMS already said that the offense would be more like this in his press conference after hiring Dawson last year.

 

[UKErik]

Every coach wants to be physical up front. The problem at Kentucky (historically) is that the program hasn't had the players to do it. UK has had one offensive lineman drafted in the last two decades.

The best kind of offense is one that provides an equal run/pass threat. If the Cats get better at throwing the football, they'll probably be able to run it better by default. Last season, the passing game was just too inconsistent, so teams could roll the dice and cheat against the running game.

If UK gets consistent quarterback play, this offense should be really good.

GBB!!!

 

[CATFANFOLIFE87]

Just because an offense is balanced and physical doesn't make it predictable or smash mouth Alabama football. You're making a ton of assumptions and your post doesn't hold water. What's predictable is throwing the ball 60 times a game. You can't do that anymore defenses today are much better at defending the pass than they were in the days of Couch and Mumme.

There is no way you watched every game last season and came to the conclusion that our passing attack was more effective than our rushing attack. It's already been said but our receivers were hurt, inexperienced route runners, lacked the strength to break press coverage, lacked depth, and had very little rapport with Towles. We didn't have a single TE that was capable of opening up the middle of the field. We had 3 RS freshmen starting on our OL (at various times) that gave Towles very little time to go through his progressions much less throw it. Our QB struggled seeing the field and delivering an accurate pass. Most of the time when we tried to pass he tucked the ball and ran.

Our OL was much better at run blocking and our best playmakers were all runningbacks last season (Heard, Boom, Kemp, Horton). We need our receivers to step up BIG TIME this season. Timmons can't go over the middle of the field hearing footsteps and he can't keep dropping the ball. Our young receivers will have to grow up fast and put in the time to be stronger, better route runners, and develop chemistry with the QB. Timmons, Montgomery, and Badet are third year players and they have to be consistently good for our passing attack to take the next step. Towles or Barker have to keep their composure in the pocket, go through their progressions, and make good decisions. We were essentially fighting a David vs Goliath battle last year only David had his hands tied behind his back. Brown wasn't without fault but the man was handcuffed so I have a hard time getting too frustrated with him.

 

[TrollCat]

The players are in place now for this offense to move forward. Best depth at wr possibly in school history. Everything now depends on john schlarman's abilty to develop an sec caliber offensive line. Can he do it is the question.

 

[Blueathletics]

Originally posted by UKErik:
Every coach wants to be physical up front. The problem at Kentucky (historically) is that the program hasn't had the players to do it. UK has had one offensive lineman drafted in the last two decades.

The best kind of offense is one that provides an equal run/pass threat. If the Cats get better at throwing the football, they'll probably be able to run it better by default. Last season, the passing game was just too inconsistent, so teams could roll the dice and cheat against the running game.

If UK gets consistent quarterback play, this offense should be really good.

GBB!!!

Being able to do ANYTHING well starts here.....Pretty certain CMS realizes this

 

[AJ Blue]

I don't think it's about how much we run it that matters to Stoops as much as HOW we run it when we do. Coach just wants to be more physical in everything period. I thinks he's just knows there are times when you have to get third and threes without spreading the field and he got frustrated with not being able to do that last year and having to resort to QB keeps all the time. The key is being up tempo and fast and physical in every set pass or run not how much you do either. Ga Tech is up tempo with just the run and it's just as devastating and wearing on the defense as Oregon. Auburn mixes both. We will still be 60/40 pass/run but with added tempo and strength on the second part IMO

 

[C1180]

If you are going to run the up tempo offense you had better be able to get first downs because with a lot of three and outs whether you run or pass the ball all you have accomplished is giving the other team more chances to score against you.

I have no problem whether the offense is run or pass heavy as long as one or both is successful. I do have a problem with continually using either of the two pass or run that you are being unsuccessful at just because you think that is what you are supposed to do to keep the offense balanced. IMO keeping the offense balanced is over rated. Do what you are best at and only throw in a token of that of which you are being least effective to keep the defense from completely ignoring defending it.

 

[OFortuna]

First, OP, thanks for the link. It was clear early on last year, when we couldn't punch it in from a yard out against UT Martin, that we were going to struggle up front. Maybe we're better this year, and "being physical" is certainly a goal, but I suspect we're still a work in progress as far as controlling the line of scrimmage or getting a yard or two when the other team knows we're running the ball.

One of the staple plays I remember from the Mumme era was the Couch-to-White check down in the flat, where the back was usually one on one with a defender. Showed up in the stats as a pass, but was really considered a long handoff, and usually resulted in positive yardage -- sometimes 1-2, sometimes 4-5 and occasionally 10+. It was a way to find yards when we knew we weren't going to blow people off the line. We'll need some plays like that, which we can execute and count on for a few yards. Effectiveness trumps percentages, or the determination to be physical when the other team is holding most of the cards.

 

[JHB4UK]

No. I expect 50/50.

 

[2bunnies]

Originally posted by JHB4UK:
No. I expect 50/50.

You could be right, I believe the field play of our offense will dictate this. We should be better at both this year.

Throwing in some run heavy games would really throw off some defenses this year, and switch up with some high pass quarters.
This post was edited on 3/14 10:58 AM by 2bunnies

 

[Deeeefense]

The only team in the modern SEC era to ever rise to the top of the conference as a passing team was the Spurrier/Florida teams of the 90s. But even then they were at best 57/43 pass to run, and the years they won the national championship it was Fred Taylor running the ball in an offense that was more balanced. So the argument that you have to be able to run the ball and you need to be fairly balanced to succeed in this conference seems valid, and history is on that side.

When thinking about last year's team, the first half the of the season, our offensive line matched up fairly well against most of the opponents, and we won most of those games, but in the second half of the season it was obvious they were being "out physicalled" up front on offense and that tended to stymie the whole offense. When you can't run the ball the pass rush gets more intense and things go down hill fast. Most of that is on the line at certain spots but it's also on the TEs and to a lesser extent the backs.

When CMS talks about physicality I think this is what he is talking about. You don't have to be Alabama and just line up and smash the football at the opponent knowing you have the bigger bulls, but you do have to be physical enough to execute a run game be it a spread option style, or like Phillips/Sanders did here with a solid zone blocking scheme using a lot of stretch plays. But you have to be able to do something on the ground consistently and successfully to have an offense that can move the ball and score points. I think that's the direction CMS wants to move this offense towards and I think he is on his way to achieving that.




This post was edited on 3/14 11:11 AM by Deeeefense

 

[mrschwump]

Have to do 2 things to win in the SEC....run the ball and stop the run. Been that way for decades and it's not going to change anytime soon. As short handed at RB UK is right now, building a strong running game could be a problem. It's a huge challenge facing Stoops/Dawson.

 

[C1180]

Originally posted by OFortuna:

First, OP, thanks for the link. It was clear early on last year, when we couldn't punch it in from a yard out against UT Martin, that we were going to struggle up front. Maybe we're better this year, and "being physical" is certainly a goal, but I suspect we're still a work in progress as far as controlling the line of scrimmage or getting a yard or two when the other team knows we're running the ball.

One of the staple plays I remember from the Mumme era was the Couch-to-White check down in the flat, where the back was usually one on one with a defender. Showed up in the stats as a pass, but was really considered a long handoff, and usually resulted in positive yardage -- sometimes 1-2, sometimes 4-5 and occasionally 10+. It was a way to find yards when we knew we weren't going to blow people off the line. We'll need some plays like that, which we can execute and count on for a few yards. Effectiveness trumps percentages, or the determination to be physical when the other team is holding most of the cards.

The Air Raid has always used the short passing game as an extension of its running game. It success is dependent on the blocking of the WRs. It is like every thing in football. It all comes down to your ability to block and tackle.

 

[KapitalCat]

Originally posted by AJ Blue:
I don't think it's about how much we run it that matters to Stoops as much as HOW we run it when we do. Coach just wants to be more physical in everything period. I thinks he's just knows there are times when you have to get third and threes without spreading the field and he got frustrated with not being able to do that last year and having to resort to QB keeps all the time. The key is being up tempo and fast and physical in every set pass or run not how much you do either. Ga Tech is up tempo with just the run and it's just as devastating and wearing on the defense as Oregon. Auburn mixes both. We will still be 60/40 pass/run but with added tempo and strength on the second part IMO

This. We have to get more physical up front. It begins and ends with the OL. I've heard Neal Brown talking about being more physical in the run game. It's something we must do. But it doesn't mean we run more. The article is very good, the title of this post is very misleading. I expect we will pass it 55% of the time. If we were going to be a run heavy offense we would have zero shot at Austin Kendall. It's why he probably won't end up at Auburn.

 

[BlueRaider22]

Dawson will do what he needs to win. If that means running it more or passing it more.

Now, I do feel that the personnel won't be in place to allow us to throw to the amount that Dawson would like. We will throw more than last yr but it won't be as much as 2016-2017.

 

[southindycat]

I did not like the Mumme era effort to build a football program on finesse, and I did not like the echoes of it I saw in our offense the last two years. If you can take something from Air Raid football and incorporate it into a more balanced attack, great. But, at the end of the day, you must install a system and build a team that can line up, and at least with the benefit of the threat presented by its passing efficiency, line up and move the ball on the ground as readily as through the air, relying on the balance to make both more effective.

I am not interested in any system that says, "We will only succeed against elite teams with a 70/30 pass/run clockwork dink and dunk attack." I saw what a good defensive football team will usually do with that in Raymond James Stadium several years ago.

Football is a physical game. If I want to watch basketball, I'll watch basketball.

As much as anything, I do not like the Air Raid game because it has always lent itself to outsiders saying of UK football followers "they can only relate to the game if it looks like hoops", which is beyond ridiculous, and does little to make the program look like a "sleeping giant".

 

[How Blue Can You Get?]

Im just fine w that, as long as we have the personel to do it. Stoops is right, you have to be physical and run the ball to win in the sec. However, calling run plays does not constitute running the ball. You ha e to have an oline that can run block consistently.

 

[Deeeefense]

Originally posted by southindycat:
I did not like the Mumme era effort to build a football program on finesse, and I did not like the echoes of it I saw in our offense the last two years.

From a defensive perspeive no matter how creative the offensive scheme is that you face, sooner or later you can device a defensive scheme to defeat it or at least slow it down to make it ineffectual. OTOH you cannot develop a scheme to defeat physical superiority. That doesn't mean you have to have an NFL califbr O-line and backs to run the ball, but what it does mean is that you can develop a running game to take advantage of the physical strengths you have on offense - primarily power and speed to establish enough of a running game to have a consistent offense.

So I agree on the finesse part of your statement, but I do think the AirRaid principals can work when incorporated with a successful running game component.

 

[Poetax]

Originally posted by 3632:
I don't doubt that there may have been some people question Towles arm strength because I've seen everything under the sun questioned on here. But even without Dawson's pointing it out, it's clearly not his issue. This offense requires accuracy and a quick release..two things Patrick needs quite a bit of work on. That's why the job isn't his right now. Let's hope that either Barker has the skill set or Patrick can improve those things enough to get it done. As Dawson points out about arm strength in the article, "That's got little to do with playing football productively."

If our oline doesn't improve it won't matter who is QB, we have two very good QBs but they can't protect themselves.

 

[WildCard]

Originally posted by jnewc2:
ESPN has a good article talking about Shannon Dawson and what attracted Stoops to him as well as what we can expect from Stoops/Dawson's offense this season. The main thing I took away from the article is that once again Stoops will be playing a big role in influencing how much of the running game we see from the "Air Raid" this year.

From the ESPN article about why Stoops chose Dawson as OC:


"The deciding factor? Not speed or eye-popping passing numbers. It was West Virginia's recent emphasis on the power-running game.."

"The thing I liked from the style of offense they were doing is they brought some physicality and some run-game to this style of offense," Stoops, a defensive-minded coach, explained. "


"Said Dawson: "That's probably one of the bigger reasons Coach Stoops hired me here. When we talked, I talked just as much about being physical and punching people in the mouth as throwing it down the field."[/B]

Reading between the lines a bit from many of Stoops' quotes from this year and last, it seems that this should end a lot of the debate as to why we seemed to be forcing the running game at times when we had an offensive coordinator in Neal Brown known for his high-powered passing attacks at all of his other stops.

There is a concereted effort on the part of Stoops to have a balanced, "physical" offense (which is a good thing--to a degree) and I think now that Brown is gone our fans should recognize the reason behind why we seemed to be "forcing" a running game that wasn't there many times last year. The answer: Stoops desire for a balanced, physical offense (which is a good thing, don't get me wrong)....

...I just hope this year, that if there are more stretches in the game (and season) where we seem to be force-feeding the run game with a relatively conservative, predictable run-dominated offense with little-to-no success, that we'll understand the reason for it this time around (and maybe send Neal Brown some apology letters while we're doing so)...




Here's a link to the ESPN article:
https://espn.go.com/blog/sec/post/_/id/99052/dawson-takes-no-conscience-approach-at-kentucky?ex_cid=espnapi_public

While I agree with the parts of your post that I did not quote (e.g., can't be a straight up smash mouth team, etc.), I respectfully disagree with the above comments as well as the general notion that CMS "influenced" the offense and "constrained" Neal Brown's historically pass heavy offense. Why, you may ask?

I was told that was not the case by many posters on this board.

Peace

 

[DaBossIsBack]

Originally posted by southindycat:
I did not like the Mumme era effort to build a football program on finesse, and I did not like the echoes of it I saw in our offense the last two years. If you can take something from Air Raid football and incorporate it into a more balanced attack, great. But, at the end of the day, you must install a system and build a team that can line up, and at least with the benefit of the threat presented by its passing efficiency, line up and move the ball on the ground as readily as through the air, relying on the balance to make both more effective.

I am not interested in any system that says, "We will only succeed against elite teams with a 70/30 pass/run clockwork dink and dunk attack." I saw what a good defensive football team will usually do with that in Raymond James Stadium several years ago.

Football is a physical game. If I want to watch basketball, I'll watch basketball.

As much as anything, I do not like the Air Raid game because it has always lent itself to outsiders saying of UK football followers "they can only relate to the game if it looks like hoops", which is beyond ridiculous, and does little to make the program look like a "sleeping giant".

Since Dawson is from the Mumme tree then you probably aren't going to be a fan of his offense either.

 

[C1180]

Originally posted by jnewc2:
ESPN has a good article talking about Shannon Dawson and what attracted Stoops to him as well as what we can expect from Stoops/Dawson's offense this season. The main thing I took away from the article is that once again Stoops will be playing a big role in influencing how much of the running game we see from the "Air Raid" this year.

From the ESPN article about why Stoops chose Dawson as OC:



"The deciding factor? Not speed or eye-popping passing numbers. It was West Virginia's recent emphasis on the power-running game.."

"The thing I liked from the style of offense they were doing is they brought some physicality and some run-game to this style of offense," Stoops, a defensive-minded coach, explained. "




"Said Dawson: "That's probably one of the bigger reasons Coach Stoops hired me here. When we talked, I talked just as much about being physical and punching people in the mouth as throwing it down the field."[/B]

Reading between the lines a bit from many of Stoops' quotes from this year and last, it seems that this should end a lot of the debate as to why we seemed to be forcing the running game at times when we had an offensive coordinator in Neal Brown known for his high-powered passing attacks at all of his other stops.

There is a concereted effort on the part of Stoops to have a balanced, "physical" offense (which is a good thing--to a degree) and I think now that Brown is gone our fans should recognize the reason behind why we seemed to be "forcing" a running game that wasn't there many times last year. The answer: Stoops desire for a balanced, physical offense (which is a good thing, don't get me wrong). I just hope that in the end Stoops learned from some of his mistakes last year and understands that sometimes you can't play straight-up smash mouth football with teams like Georgia and LSU, that you need to pass to set up the run instead of vice-versa when you're a team like Kentucky trying to win with a balanced, physical, predictable offense against a significantly more talented opponent virtually every week in the SEC. That no matter how badly you want to be balanced and run the ball like Alabama, you can't be perfectly balanced when you don't have the offensive line and dominant defense of a team like Alabama or LSU.

At Kentucky, I believe for us to gain an edge on our opponents, we need to place an emphasis on the pass (while still having a strong running game). I think 60-40 pass/run would be around the ideal ratio for our team. But last year (in an effort to be balanced/physical) we ran the ball more than we passed (even though our pass game was the stronger aspect of our team).

I just hope this year, that if there are more stretches in the game (and season) where we seem to be force-feeding the run game with a relatively conservative, predictable run-dominated offense with little-to-no success, that we'll understand the reason for it this time around (and maybe send Neal Brown some apology letters while we're doing so).

Also, for those of us on here that complained about Towles lack of "zip" on his passes last year, it seems that our new offensive coordinator strongly disagrees:



"As far as arm talent goes, I haven't been around anybody with that arm strength," Dawson said of Towles.



Here's a link to the ESPN article:
https://espn.go.com/blog/sec/post/_/id/99052/dawson-takes-no-conscience-approach-at-kentucky?ex_cid=espnapi_public

Only a complete idiot of a football coach would do what you are suggesting. Hire an Air Raid passing OC when what he really wants to do is run the football and Stoops has done it twice. I am then going to assume that you think the UK football coach is a complete idiot. I think there is an idiot involved here but I don't believe it is the UK football coach.

 

[Poetax]

Originally posted by southindycat:


I am not interested in any system that says, "We will only succeed against elite teams with a 70/30 pass/run clockwork dink and dunk attack." I saw what a good defensive football team will usually do with that in Raymond James Stadium several years ago.

Poor game to compare, we go from being a team who is playing very well to a team within days of the bowl game mourning over the deaths of two UK students killed in a wreck, one who was a player sitting out the season because of transfer, and the loss of our All SEC center, who was driving but lived, but who never played another game for UK. We started a back up center who was not ready for a Penn State defense who was very good. Losing our starting center was the major reason for our demise in that game not the offense.

 

[southindycat]

Originally posted by Poetax:

Originally posted by southindycat:


I am not interested in any system that says, "We will only succeed against elite teams with a 70/30 pass/run clockwork dink and dunk attack." I saw what a good defensive football team will usually do with that in Raymond James Stadium several years ago.

Poor game to compare, we go from being a team who is playing very well to a team within days of the bowl game mourning over the deaths of two UK students killed in a wreck, one who was a player sitting out the season because of transfer, and the loss of our All SEC center, who was driving but lived, but who never played another game for UK. We started a back up center who was not ready for a Penn State defense who was very good. Losing our starting center was the major reason for our demise in that game not the offense.

Quite right. I guess I've blocked some details of the last 3 weeks of that season from my mind. I also sat through the loss at Neyland as well. So, see losses to Arkansas and Georgia instead. Good football teams still made us look like one trick pony.

 

[southindycat]

Originally posted by DaBossIsBack:

Originally posted by southindycat:
I did not like the Mumme era effort to build a football program on finesse, and I did not like the echoes of it I saw in our offense the last two years. If you can take something from Air Raid football and incorporate it into a more balanced attack, great. But, at the end of the day, you must install a system and build a team that can line up, and at least with the benefit of the threat presented by its passing efficiency, line up and move the ball on the ground as readily as through the air, relying on the balance to make both more effective.

I am not interested in any system that says, "We will only succeed against elite teams with a 70/30 pass/run clockwork dink and dunk attack." I saw what a good defensive football team will usually do with that in Raymond James Stadium several years ago.

Football is a physical game. If I want to watch basketball, I'll watch basketball.

As much as anything, I do not like the Air Raid game because it has always lent itself to outsiders saying of UK football followers "they can only relate to the game if it looks like hoops", which is beyond ridiculous, and does little to make the program look like a "sleeping giant".

Since Dawson is from the Mumme tree then you probably aren't going to be a fan of his offense either.

I know he is considered part of the Air Raid tree. I also know his branch is a long way from the roots. I get the impression his offense will prove more physical. I am not expecting or lobbying for a pro multiple approach. We can base in the Air Raid, and still play like we have a pair.

 

[Brock28]

Originally posted by mrschwump:

Have to do 2 things to win in the SEC....run the ball and stop the run. Been that way for decades and it's not going to change anytime soon. As short handed at RB UK is right now, building a strong running game could be a problem. It's a huge challenge facing Stoops/Dawson.

I agree 100% that running the ball and stopping the run are the keys to win in the sec.

I totally disagree that we are short handed at running back. This is the deepest I ever remember us at quality depth for running back.

 

[TBCat]

Originally posted by southindycat:
I did not like the Mumme era effort to build a football program on finesse, and I did not like the echoes of it I saw in our offense the last two years. If you can take something from Air Raid football and incorporate it into a more balanced attack, great. But, at the end of the day, you must install a system and build a team that can line up, and at least with the benefit of the threat presented by its passing efficiency, line up and move the ball on the ground as readily as through the air, relying on the balance to make both more effective.

I am not interested in any system that says, "We will only succeed against elite teams with a 70/30 pass/run clockwork dink and dunk attack." I saw what a good defensive football team will usually do with that in Raymond James Stadium several years ago.

Football is a physical game. If I want to watch basketball, I'll watch basketball.

As much as anything, I do not like the Air Raid game because it has always lent itself to outsiders saying of UK football followers "they can only relate to the game if it looks like hoops", which is beyond ridiculous, and does little to make the program look like a "sleeping giant".

Really poor analysis on many fronts. First of all we didn't show echos of the Mumme era the past 2 years. In fact I would hardly even call what we've been running an Air Raid. It was more Bill Curry like than Air Raid. The first year we actually had more rushing attempts than passing. Last year we statistically had passing attempts but we still felt more like a run first system. And it got blew up for that reason.

2nd you must not have been at the bowl game in Raymond James Stadium because that good defense did nothing be get scored on. We nearly beat a vastly superior team that day. UK's Air Raid controlled the game for the first 3 and a half quarters of the game. The Penn State fans I talked to at half time were in shock. They were expecting to win by 4 or 5 TDs. Based purely on talent differences they should have. Let's not pretend that we were physically better than that team. How many future 1st round draft picks were on that Penn State team. A dozen or so? That approach was exactly what we needed to level the playing field. And it did work.

Also if you don't like the spread concepts and playing basketball on grass then you might want to stop watching college football in general for the next 50 or so years. It's not just UK doing that. At least 8 or 9 teams in our own conference are running either Air Raid or some similar spread concept. The rules changes in the game have busted the "defense and run the ball" approach that many of the traditionalist are clinging to. Only about half dozen or so teams of consequence really play that style now. Not only can you not win with that system here but you can't recruit to it either. Look at the improvements in recruiting under Stoops. I can promise you that would not have happened if we were running the wish bone. It's precisely Stoops' forward thinking mindset that has attracted the top players.

 

[DaBossIsBack]

Originally posted by southindycat:
I know he is considered part of the Air Raid tree. I also know his branch is a long way from the roots. I get the impression his offense will prove more physical. I am not expecting or lobbying for a pro multiple approach. We can base in the Air Raid, and still play like we have a pair.

It's not that far. We are going to be out of shot gun or pistol 99% of the time. Can you be physical out of the spread? Of course. But we aren't going to be getting in the I or pro set to run the ball. West Virginia, Oklahoma , Oklahoma State. Those are the offenses that we will probably most closely resemble. The thing that Dawson harps on and the thing that you should be most excited about is that he is going to take what ever the defense is giving him.

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

Originally posted by TBCat:

Originally posted by southindycat:
I did not like the Mumme era effort to build a football program on finesse, and I did not like the echoes of it I saw in our offense the last two years. If you can take something from Air Raid football and incorporate it into a more balanced attack, great. But, at the end of the day, you must install a system and build a team that can line up, and at least with the benefit of the threat presented by its passing efficiency, line up and move the ball on the ground as readily as through the air, relying on the balance to make both more effective.

I am not interested in any system that says, "We will only succeed against elite teams with a 70/30 pass/run clockwork dink and dunk attack." I saw what a good defensive football team will usually do with that in Raymond James Stadium several years ago.

Football is a physical game. If I want to watch basketball, I'll watch basketball.

As much as anything, I do not like the Air Raid game because it has always lent itself to outsiders saying of UK football followers "they can only relate to the game if it looks like hoops", which is beyond ridiculous, and does little to make the program look like a "sleeping giant".

Really poor analysis on many fronts. First of all we didn't show echos of the Mumme era the past 2 years. In fact I would hardly even call what we've been running an Air Raid. It was more Bill Curry like than Air Raid. The first year we actually had more rushing attempts than passing. Last year we statistically had passing attempts but we still felt more like a run first system. And it got blew up for that reason.

2nd you must not have been at the bowl game in Raymond James Stadium because that good defense did nothing be get scored on. We nearly beat a vastly superior team that day. UK's Air Raid controlled the game for the first 3 and a half quarters of the game. The Penn State fans I talked to at half time were in shock. They were expecting to win by 4 or 5 TDs. Based purely on talent differences they should have. Let's not pretend that we were physically better than that team. How many future 1st round draft picks were on that Penn State team. A dozen or so? That approach was exactly what we needed to level the playing field. And it did work.

Also if you don't like the spread concepts and playing basketball on grass then you might want to stop watching college football in general for the next 50 or so years. It's not just UK doing that. At least 8 or 9 teams in our own conference are running either Air Raid or some similar spread concept. The rules changes in the game have busted the "defense and run the ball" approach that many of the traditionalist are clinging to. Only about half dozen or so teams of consequence really play that style now. Not only can you not win with that system here but you can't recruit to it either. Look at the improvements in recruiting under Stoops. I can promise you that would not have happened if we were running the wish bone. It's precisely Stoops' forward thinking mindset that has attracted the top players.

I agree that the air raid spread type offenses have taken over college football right now, they are everywhere. But the most successful tOSU, AU, the Meyer led UF teams all were run teams led by QBs known more for their running ability than passing. Tebow was and still is a bad passer, but led UF to a NC and a key part in another because of his ability to run the ball, AU won and played for another NC with a huge threat to run the ball at QB, Cam isn't awful in the NFL but isn't mentioned when elite guys are talked about yet, Nick Marshall is trying to get to the NFL as a DB and was less than a minute from a NC as a QB. tOSU just won the NC with a 3rd string QB who made a few passes, but it was his ability to run the ball and convert 3rd downs that got them there. Everyone of them had a stud RB to lead the way. Right now defenses are still in the process of adapting to the spread, rule changes have made passing the ball popular too. But like all offenses that dominated the football scene from the T, winged T and wishbone, defenses will catch up and make it a novality. Already we are seeing teams getting away from the monster MLB and going to S type guys in the middle, DL are getting a little smaller, 3-4 defenses are becoming more popular, DBs are getting bigger. I can't remember the last pass oriented team that one a NC. With the way the playoffs are determined today, to be out is all it takes is one bad Saturday and a team who relies on the pass is more likely to have a bad Saturday/Thursday night than a team who runs the ball

 

[southindycat]

Originally posted by TBCat:

Originally posted by southindycat:
I did not like the Mumme era effort to build a football program on finesse, and I did not like the echoes of it I saw in our offense the last two years. If you can take something from Air Raid football and incorporate it into a more balanced attack, great. But, at the end of the day, you must install a system and build a team that can line up, and at least with the benefit of the threat presented by its passing efficiency, line up and move the ball on the ground as readily as through the air, relying on the balance to make both more effective.

I am not interested in any system that says, "We will only succeed against elite teams with a 70/30 pass/run clockwork dink and dunk attack." I saw what a good defensive football team will usually do with that in Raymond James Stadium several years ago.

Football is a physical game. If I want to watch basketball, I'll watch basketball.

As much as anything, I do not like the Air Raid game because it has always lent itself to outsiders saying of UK football followers "they can only relate to the game if it looks like hoops", which is beyond ridiculous, and does little to make the program look like a "sleeping giant".

Really poor analysis on many fronts. First of all we didn't show echos of the Mumme era the past 2 years. In fact I would hardly even call what we've been running an Air Raid. It was more Bill Curry like than Air Raid. The first year we actually had more rushing attempts than passing. Last year we statistically had passing attempts but we still felt more like a run first system. And it got blew up for that reason.

2nd you must not have been at the bowl game in Raymond James Stadium because that good defense did nothing be get scored on. We nearly beat a vastly superior team that day. UK's Air Raid controlled the game for the first 3 and a half quarters of the game. The Penn State fans I talked to at half time were in shock. They were expecting to win by 4 or 5 TDs. Based purely on talent differences they should have. Let's not pretend that we were physically better than that team. How many future 1st round draft picks were on that Penn State team. A dozen or so? That approach was exactly what we needed to level the playing field. And it did work.

Also if you don't like the spread concepts and playing basketball on grass then you might want to stop watching college football in general for the next 50 or so years. It's not just UK doing that. At least 8 or 9 teams in our own conference are running either Air Raid or some similar spread concept. The rules changes in the game have busted the "defense and run the ball" approach that many of the traditionalist are clinging to. Only about half dozen or so teams of consequence really play that style now. Not only can you not win with that system here but you can't recruit to it either. Look at the improvements in recruiting under Stoops. I can promise you that would not have happened if we were running the wish bone. It's precisely Stoops' forward thinking mindset that has attracted the top players.

Real forward thinking usually has something to do with blending old and new concepts. You aren't following me. I am not looking for 3 yds and a cloud of dust. Outback Bowl? We lost, even while very productive on offense. That is my point. We did that a lot under Mumme. It stunk.

 

[gsayers]

Re: Expect a run-heavy offense this season from Stoops/Dawson[/URL]Grumpyolddawg posted on 3/15/2015...

Originally posted by TBCat:

Originally posted by southindycat:
I did not like the Mumme era effort to build a football program on finesse, and I did not like the echoes of it I saw in our offense the last two years. If you can take something from Air Raid football and incorporate it into a more balanced attack, great. But, at the end of the day, you must install a system and build a team that can line up, and at least with the benefit of the threat presented by its passing efficiency, line up and move the ball on the ground as readily as through the air, relying on the balance to make both more effective.

I am not interested in any system that says, "We will only succeed against elite teams with a 70/30 pass/run clockwork dink and dunk attack." I saw what a good defensive football team will usually do with that in Raymond James Stadium several years ago.

Football is a physical game. If I want to watch basketball, I'll watch basketball.

As much as anything, I do not like the Air Raid game because it has always lent itself to outsiders saying of UK football followers "they can only relate to the game if it looks like hoops", which is beyond ridiculous, and does little to make the program look like a "sleeping giant".

Really poor analysis on many fronts. First of all we didn't show echos of the Mumme era the past 2 years. In fact I would hardly even call what we've been running an Air Raid. It was more Bill Curry like than Air Raid. The first year we actually had more rushing attempts than passing. Last year we statistically had passing attempts but we still felt more like a run first system. And it got blew up for that reason.

2nd you must not have been at the bowl game in Raymond James Stadium because that good defense did nothing be get scored on. We nearly beat a vastly superior team that day. UK's Air Raid controlled the game for the first 3 and a half quarters of the game. The Penn State fans I talked to at half time were in shock. They were expecting to win by 4 or 5 TDs. Based purely on talent differences they should have. Let's not pretend that we were physically better than that team. How many future 1st round draft picks were on that Penn State team. A dozen or so? That approach was exactly what we needed to level the playing field. And it did work.

Also if you don't like the spread concepts and playing basketball on grass then you might want to stop watching college football in general for the next 50 or so years. It's not just UK doing that. At least 8 or 9 teams in our own conference are running either Air Raid or some similar spread concept. The rules changes in the game have busted the "defense and run the ball" approach that many of the traditionalist are clinging to. Only about half dozen or so teams of consequence really play that style now. Not only can you not win with that system here but you can't recruit to it either. Look at the improvements in recruiting under Stoops. I can promise you that would not have happened if we were running the wish bone. It's precisely Stoops' forward thinking mindset that has attracted the top players.

I agree that the air raid spread type offenses have taken over college football right now, they are everywhere. But the most successful tOSU, AU, the Meyer led UF teams all were run teams led by QBs known more for their running ability than passing. Tebow was and still is a bad passer, but led UF to a NC and a key part in another because of his ability to run the ball, AU won and played for another NC with a huge threat to run the ball at QB, Cam isn't awful in the NFL but isn't mentioned when elite guys are talked about yet, Nick Marshall is trying to get to the NFL as a DB and was less than a minute from a NC as a QB. tOSU just won the NC with a 3rd string QB who made a few passes, but it was his ability to run the ball and convert 3rd downs that got them there. Everyone of them had a stud RB to lead the way. Right now defenses are still in the process of adapting to the spread, rule changes have made passing the ball popular too. But like all offenses that dominated the football scene from the T, winged T and wishbone, defenses will catch up and make it a novality. Already we are seeing teams getting away from the monster MLB and going to S type guys in the middle, DL are getting a little smaller, 3-4 defenses are becoming more popular, DBs are getting bigger. I can't remember the last pass oriented team that one a NC. With the way the playoffs are determined today, to be out is all it takes is one bad Saturday and a team who relies on the pass is more likely to have a bad Saturday/Thursday night than a team who runs the ball




Subject:
Tebow's passing stats at Florida

Soph: 234 for 350, for 3,286 yards. He had a 66.9% completion rate.
Junior: 192 for 298 for 2,746 yards. He had a 64.4% completion rate.
Sr.: 213 for 314 for 2,895 yards. He had a 67.8% completion rate.


I want to see the QB you label a good passer.
This post was edited on 3/16 12:35 PM by gsayers

 

[ARC Dog]

You have to admit Tebow three mostly swing passes and screen type stuff - he was never a great drop back guy in true passing downs and that's what killed him in the NFL. Grumpy was wrong however in that FSU 2013 was most certainly a pass first team.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Only UK fans would prefer throwing the ball every down, even if it wasn't the best chance to win games.

The spread offense IS dominating college football. But todays dominant spread is based upon using the formations to set up running lanes; then "throwing it down the field".

I don't care if we run the triple option, the veer, lineup 2 Qbs in the shotgun, etc; as long as it gives us the best chance to win games.

 

[C1180]

Originally posted by bigblueinsanity:

Only UK fans would prefer throwing the ball every down, even if it wasn't the best chance to win games.

The spread offense IS dominating college football. But todays dominant spread is based upon using the formations to set up running lanes; then "throwing it down the field".

I don't care if we run the triple option, the veer, lineup 2 Qbs in the shotgun, etc; as long as it gives us the best chance to win games.

This is basically what I was going to post. I do not care if they run on every down if it results in wins. I also do not care if they pass on every down if it results in wins. The objective in football is winning games and not style points for how you won the game.

The coaches know their teams and must game plan for what gives them the best chance to win. If some fans do not like their choice that is just tough s**t.