By the looks of where they went after they left, it seems that not playing or not playing well when they did play might have been a more believable reason for their leaving.
Denzil Ware Transferring
- Thread starter TheKentuckyKid
- Start date
By the looks of where they went after they left, it seems that not playing or not playing well when they did play might have been a more believable reason for their leaving.
Seems like both judging from the on the field results or we’re just poorly coached.
Sooooooo......
You want to talk about Stoops being a failure because we are losing "good" players to transfer, but when those kids don't work out somewhere else it's Stoops is a failure because the players aren't as good as their star ratings.....which he doesn't have a nickle in....as all the analysts said.
Look....
The guy makes plenty of mistakes. I'm on board with sticking him with the wrong DC too long, with not getting kids more pt, and just maybe sticking with some kids toooooo long.
Ain't gonna blame him for a kid actually getting a degree and wanting to try somewhere else for a year. Especially a kid a lot of folks were wondering why he was still here.
Take your SJW political crap and stick it or at least take it somewhere else. No one wants to hear that. 2-10 has no color. It's just a football record. That's what our record was in 2012. That's in the history books.
"We have recruited a top 30 roster but have we looked like a top 30 team"
IMO stoops has made some bad mistakes in his early coaching years.
Some he has fixed some we will see this year. I really don't care what some say, but Brown was a good OC. You go watch how his offenses played with what he had to work with, and tell me he didn't put a winning product on the field!
Dawson was a Big miss by stoops!
Imo he corrected it with gran who i like! Think he has given us opportunitys to win several more games then what we have the past several years.
ST was a complete mess,which it looks like he has hired Hood who i think has done a good Job correcting that phase of the Game.
But ever since i have watched stoops (who i have been a supporter of) his defense sucks! Long story short they have to "Show Me" this year before i am convinced he will take us where we want to be as a program.
He has been able to hire people to fix the offense and ST.
But his defense has not played winning football, "except for a few games" . He is suppose to be a defensive guru. Time to put a top 30 defense out there..
Good call. I really like Gran and Hood too. I thought they were home run hires. I think Hinshaw did everything he could to maximize SJ's potential. Marrow is an awesome recruiter and seems to be a decent position coach. Smith seems like a solid hire as does Brad White. I'm not sold on the rest of the staff. I will leave it at that.
I agree.. I like our staff much better then several years ago.. The offensive staff is putting a winning product out there. ST was good..
It all comes down to defense... While i like the white hire for what i have heard. I also like hood moving to safety coach as well..But our DB and Dline along with the DC need to step up there game!
I'm ready to see a fundamentally sound, discipline,hard hitting, consistent defense!
The offense is not playing winning fb when you are scoring at a 23/25ppg clip.
May have, but if a guy has graduated he can leave regardless of what the school wants. When Kirby came to UGA, a player who had just graduated wanted to come with him ,Saban tried to stop him and couldn't.
That's where we should be, let the new mix with the old and see how it works. In recruiting the staff seems to be hitting on all cylinders so when fall comes we will see how well coached they are and how prepared they look. I'm patient enough for that.
I just don't get the Stoops isn't developing talent talk. Acccording to recruiting rankings by all the services UK is 11-12 in talent on roster in the SEC, bottom third of conference. But their level of play is middle third, which means they are over performing. Fans of every team are guilty of over estimating their talent. UK has very few players who would start at Bama, AU, UGA. Edwards is very likely the only one for UGA. That's probably not a popular statement but it's real. Special teams issues has to be coverage and returns, UK had an excellent FG and XP kicker.
Special team coverage and defense all come back to 1 reason, lack of overall team speed. That is what separates average defenses from good ones and good special team coverage from bad ones. When UK increases overall team speed both of those areas will improve. I am not talking about fast WR, everyone has some of them, they are everywhere, it's DL, LB and even secondary. Those also are who make up most of the coverage on special teams.
Special team coverage and defense all come back to 1 reason, lack of overall team speed. That is what separates average defenses from good ones and good special team coverage from bad ones. When UK increases overall team speed both of those areas will improve. I am not talking about fast WR, everyone has some of them, they are everywhere, it's DL, LB and even secondary. Those also are who make up most of the coverage on special teams.
You are looking at the SEC, but, nationally, we have consistently recruited in the 25 to 35 range through the Stoops tenure. We are not even close to being in the 25 to 35 range in terms of performance nationally over that time period; it's not good when Sagarin correctly places FSC teams like North Dakota St. and James Madison 10 to 20 spots above us. Obviously, the first two years can be written off, since the good recruits are freshmen and sophomores- and arguably the third and fourth years can be as well. In the fifth year, with recruiting classes that average 25 to 35- I'd like to see better than about the 60th best team in college football. The only reason that we're arguably in the middle of the SEC is because of the train wrecks in Florida and Tennessee and Ole Miss (though we're 1-11 against that group in the last five years). Outside of that, we're right with Missouri, Vandy, and Arkansas- all of which have comparable recruiting to ours, if even that.
Lindley, Peters, Travethan, Woodyard, Pryor, almost all our best defensive kids come from the south where all the speed is.
Pryor, Pryor, are you talking about Myron, didn't he come from Louisville and should you mention him and speed in the same sentence? Excellent underrated player for UK but BIG was his strong suit (another 5.2 IIRC) but I will never forget him lumbering down the field against Transfer U with their 300# center lumbering after him for about 50 yards, but he made it!!!
Peters was another big DT from Louisville that had a great career here, but he was a 5.8, and also had a great pro career. Still think he would have had an amazing senior year (did anyway really) if he hadn't been double teamed every play, and if the stupid NCAA hadn't kicked Jarmon off the team for the whole year he would have had someone to share those double teams with.
No doubt. But, I don’t think they need to pretend to be searching for a masters program not offered at their current school.
We may be 11 or 12 in the SEC but we're talking a few spots from the 7 or 8th place team, if that. The SEC usually has about 8 teams in the top 25. Then about four more between 25-35, which is where we usually fall. Vandy and Mizzou are the only teams that don't recruit well.
In an earlier post I listed our O and D rankings since Stoops took over. We have averaged an 84 over that time, or clearly the bottom 1/3 of college football. Ugly, ugly football and nowhere near where we should be according to our recruiting rankings. I get that Stoops is a conservative, defensive minded HC but the best our D has finished is 59th. And this is playing with an O that tries to play keep away from the other team to keep our D off the field. I've said this for years and until our coaches prove me wrong, you can't win big at UK playing conservative ball. You need to be innovative and do something really well that few other teams do.
Yeah, I heard that someplace.Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought I read somewhere in this thread that Denzil Ware was transferring.
Peace
![[winking]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/wink.r191677.gif "Winking [winking]")
I'm curious to where he lands. Different bunch at FSU than had recruited him....IF that was a goal.
I doubt he's SEC bound.
But it's kinda irrelevant where he goes
...that die is cast.
That was a reasonable out for Stoops his first two years, but he said in year three that it no longer is an excuse. Now people today do say that was a reason for low results back then, but I'm not aware of those claiming it has an impact today. Please note such folks. Thanks.
BTW, don't you know that black coach's name, or is it more important to you to imply racism than identify him as a real individual?
If you're implying Stoops will take over the SEC; i.e.., win it, in the future recruiting the same range/level players as he has till now, I think you're most certainly wrong.
I don't see how conservative O play keeps the D off the field. Making 1D's does. Conservative means you prefer to punt at times vs. taking chances
When you are playing 2-3 of the best offenses and defenses in the country every year and 30 of those team ahead of you aren't playing anyone near the top 50 makes those numbers irrelevant.. It comes down to this, Stoops and UK are beating teams they should be beating, playing tough and beating teams ranked near them. The OM rankings were dropped by the class they signed in 17, the 3 classes prior to those were top 20 with a top 10 class. Stoops hasn't beaten anyone who has overwhelming talent yet, that doesn't happen very often for anyone. Get on him for lack of aggressive recruiting, but he is developing the talent he signs
Listen, You've been a good poster and contributor to this board for a long time but you have become the very definition of a one trick pony. Every stinkin' thread doesn't have to have multiple reminders that you think UK's offense sucks.
We get it.
I always thought that the other team got the ball every time you scored, so not scoring would be good for your D.
I even remember Mummey having the D lay down and let the other team score one time when we were behind by one point, the only way he could get the ball back with a chance to score and go for two to tie the game. Didn't work, but a clever idea.
(At first glance I thought your 1D's was TD's, misread it and started this post.).
We have finished in the top 8 the last two years in the league. 8 8 overall record. Considering we've recruited between 7 and 11 in conference the performance matches the recruiting. If you wanna argue Stoops has not overachieved il give you that but he has definitely improved the team in the w/l column.
Wasn't because a black guy coached here...it was because a former fine player that happened to be black was a good offensive coordinator but a weak head coach and recruiter.
It's kind of difficult to say....Stoops at FSU was a defensive whiz, but he had Florida State players...and I dare say did not play a season where six, seven teams spent time in the top 20. Same could be said for Mason at Vanderbilt, coming from Stanford.
This season really is pivotal to the CMS program. Experience, depth on the defense...and I believe better assistants overall.
A blow-back season to four, five wins with the team he should have will certainly be cause for serious decision time on whether this is the path UK needs to continue.
A team that brings the heart and intensity of the effort against Northwestern SHOULD be capable of at least 7 to 8 wins....perhaps more.
A team that brings the effort of Mississippi State, Louisville....that could be disaster.
Like back to the drawing board with someone different disaster.
This season really is pivotal to the CMS program. Experience, depth on the defense...and I believe better assistants overall.
A blow-back season to four, five wins with the team he should have will certainly be cause for serious decision time on whether this is the path UK needs to continue.
A team that brings the heart and intensity of the effort against Northwestern SHOULD be capable of at least 7 to 8 wins....perhaps more.
A team that brings the effort of Mississippi State, Louisville....that could be disaster.
Like back to the drawing board with someone different disaster.
Don't care what you or others think honestly. You guys are living in a lala land thinking MS is some genius that is going to build a Ala, Lsu, etc type defense. Go look at scores over the last four years when UK is sub 30 on the scoreboard and count up w/L...hell just look at scores all across the country to see what the numbers winning teams are putting on the scoreboard. Even the NC games are becoming scoring slugfest. UK is not going to win games consistently scoring 23/25 ppg...and ever stinking thread dosent have to be about MS being a defensive genius when #'s certainly prove other wise... Has u6 punted yet? The ONE time we beat them certainly wasn't with defense
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Looking back at the 14, 15, 16, 17 signing classes, UK was 8, 13, 10 and 10 those 4 years, an average of approx 10th. I just don't see 9 teams in the SEC as being better than UK right now. I don't see them as world beaters, but somewhere around 6-8 in the conference in 17. But UT and UF in the east are trying to get back where they feel they belong with new coaching hires. UF signed a coach who won at MSST, UT just named one of the biggest cheaters ever in the SEC as their AD, fired their chancellor basically because she made a bad hire for AD. Rumors around Phil is trying to get his recruiting network up and running again. I guess he figures Bama is over being upset with him. Pruitt may not be the right guy, time will tell on that, but UT will start putting together top 10 or better classes.
UK just completed facility upgrades, right now Carolina, UT, UF and UGA have huge facility upgrades going on, The time for UK is now, 18 season finds UK as one of the most experienced teams in the conference, great running game a defense full of sr returning starters. 19 will find UK replacing alot of starters, UF and UT with coaches starting their 2nd year at their school. It will be much tougher schedule.
It's not about punting , it's about moving the chains by whatever means necessary and scoring, scoring, scoring.
I never said anything about Stoops taking over. I said people expecting Stoops seniors from his first class to take over the sec are wrong.
Grump ...MS is the most tenured coach in the SECE this season with , according to some, 5/6 all sec guys returning. Taking you all out of the equation, if some LOUD noise isn't made in the east we are not headed in the right direction and I'll make you a prediction ...if we don't score 28-35 a game we won't.
Thank you Grumpy. It is difficult for me to believe that some of our fans don’t understand the significance of playing against SEC talent 8 games every year, most if not all who have more talent and depth than we have, and not recognize the impact of that on these statistics. If I field a top ten 10 and you have top 30 talent, I can make your numbers look worse than your talent level actually is. Likewise, if I have top 30 talent I should impose my will on your top 50 talent. That is the biggest problem I have with Stoops tenure, playing down to inferior teams.
I can agree with this. Huge huge year for UK football. We have to start recruiting in the top 15 range. Only way to do that is to put an exciting product on the field. I was happy with 7 wins last two years but now its time to raise the bar.
And conservative offenses w/o superior talent to the opposition imo are going to be punting more than scoring. Wind up in too many 3 & 3+ situations.
Don't interpret conservative as being more run heavy than most O's, Interpret as running when the D is expecting you to run - such as when you have a 10 point lead & get ball on opponents side of 50 in late 3Q & run 3 straight times to give momentum right back to them.
A pretty tough thread to follow. Just keeps growing without much order. FWIW I think this summarizes Grumpy's position:
And I agree 100%. I will add that UK's 2018 schedule "begins" with only 2 Top 25 opponents (GA and MSU). Unless somebody blows up big, the SOS will be mid 50-ish again. This is the time to get something done because one cannot expect FL and TN (and to a lesser extent, SC and Mizzou) to stay "down" forever. JMO
Peace
And I agree 100%. I will add that UK's 2018 schedule "begins" with only 2 Top 25 opponents (GA and MSU). Unless somebody blows up big, the SOS will be mid 50-ish again. This is the time to get something done because one cannot expect FL and TN (and to a lesser extent, SC and Mizzou) to stay "down" forever. JMO
Peace
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I think they probably punted several times in the spring game, con't know for sure though, I didn't watch it.
Five or six All SEC guys-----according to who?
Bama two classes ago had 26 four and five stars that AVERAGED a 5.950, with SEVEN of them being five stars. Georgia not far behind last year, also with SEVEN five stars.
Just another stretch trying to make Stoops look incompetent. We are steadily improving talent wise but we have a long way to go. We DO need to show a big improvement this year, whether that is reflected in our record or not. I think we finally have enough talent, experience, AND an improved staff to do that. Since it is obvious that all your undercutting of this staff is not going to do ANYTHING but hurt football why not lay off until they prove their incompetence, after all, isn't it a sure thing according to you?
Who do you suggest that we hire after you get Stoops fired, mitch will be in charge and if Stoops hadn't sold hiself it is hard to say who we would have got this time-----and we almost certainly wouldn't have had Marrow, AND if we had him he would have probably been hired by Michigan. Why do you think a decent coach would come here after we fired the HC that has made more steady progress than any other coach in UK history since we let the Bear leave, and no, Curci didn't maintain his progress, in fact I think when he got fired UK had a ZERO win season the next year with us even though we were able to hire a HALL OF FAME legacy coach because he played here
Yeah, we "sposed" to be SEC, but we now have the smallest stadium in the SEC next to Vandy, just missed falling behind Transfer U in our own state because they goofed, and our renovations pale in comparison to the $400,000 A&M just poured into just their stadium, that seats over 100,000 (plus an obscene coaches contract) AND some really serious renovations by several more SEC schools. A few years ago (about when BP was run out of town) Arkansas (and California) was supposed to be starting their $400,000 atholletics upgrades.
All you can possibly do with your constant bitching and talking about changes needed is hurt recruiting, don't you know that the biggest reason for the big money spent on the extensions was primarily to help recruiting by showing recruits these coaches will be here when they play here?
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Don't play dumb... It is totally beneath you of all people for sure...when MS gets fired it will be his fault not mine, besides I said we need a change of "offensive philosophy" not a coach, but if that's what it takes so be it. I have five guys in mind when the change is needed.
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