ADVERTISEMENT

Coach K winning with OAD's= hurting UK recruiting?

Cawood86

All-American
Feb 20, 2005
36,563
64,073
113
Not that Cal won't still do great in recruiting, but I do think it will hurt. Cal was the one winning titles and going to FF's, now K has done it.

dUKe winning a title this year was not what UK fans should have ever wanted to see regarding recruiting IMO.
 
I know I will get booed for this....it is a problem for more than one reason. K is a much better bench coach and game management coach and plays a high octane offense while our style is slug it out...I am not complaining about all the final fours but there should have been 1-2 more championships in the last 6 years. We have been the better team at least 3 more times and didn't win it.
 
Won't hurt anymore than it already has. UK was all over Jabari Parker, Okafor and Kennard and they chose Duke before this latest championship. Some kids are in a Dookie state of mind. Many not.
 
Originally posted by Smashcat:

Won't hurt anymore than it already has. UK was all over Jabari Parker, Okafor and Kennard and they chose Duke before this latest championship. Some kids are in a Dookie state of mind. Many not.
Disagree. There were always kids that are in a "Dookie state of mind". Him winning the championship last year opened it up to kids that were not ever interested in Duke. Right now Duke is in the driver's seat.
 
Originally posted by TNCatfanforever:
I know I will get booed for this....it is a problem for more than one reason. K is a much better bench coach and game management coach and plays a high octane offense while our style is slug it out...I am not complaining about all the final fours but there should have been 1-2 more championships in the last 6 years. We have been the better team at least 3 more times and didn't win it.
So, what happened to K's "much better bench coaching" when they were flaming out in the 1st in 2nd rounds? He did not win it all the first 4 times he was in the FF. He did not go to the FF the 4 yrs before this season. K had 2 losing seasons in his first 3 yrs at Duke. 38-47 in those 3 seasons. 2 yrs after being the Runner up in 1994, he was 18-13. People often overlook the fact that he has had his fair share of rough spots.

Look, he's been there 35 yrs. If Cal stayed here that long, I'm pretty sure he could at least equal K's 12 FFs, and I am also pretty sure he would have at least 3 titles, maybe more.
 
The guy has won 5, and coaches the USA team. Gotta give him his props. Can certainly understand why any high schooler would want to play for him.
And, yes, I would think any potential OAD, if they weren't before, will now look closely at Duke, in addition to UK.
This post was edited on 4/20 2:51 PM by 3rex
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mark Gastineau
Originally posted by TNCatfanforever:
I know I will get booed for this....it is a problem for more than one reason. K is a much better bench coach and game management coach and plays a high octane offense while our style is slug it out...I am not complaining about all the final fours but there should have been 1-2 more championships in the last 6 years. We have been the better team at least 3 more times and didn't win it.
I agree with this . Luckily coach K can't take them all . Honestly, if something had happened and we didn't win it in 2012 , I would be seriously doubting if Cal would ever win one . But we did and I'm happy.
 
Originally posted by yoshukai:

Originally posted by TNCatfanforever:
I know I will get booed for this....it is a problem for more than one reason. K is a much better bench coach and game management coach and plays a high octane offense while our style is slug it out...I am not complaining about all the final fours but there should have been 1-2 more championships in the last 6 years. We have been the better team at least 3 more times and didn't win it.
I agree with this . Luckily coach K can't take them all . Honestly, if something had happened and we didn't win it in 2012 , I would be seriously doubting if Cal would ever win one . But we did and I'm happy.
Cal has the same number of titles as Izzo, who pretty much everybody thinks is a better coach. It's HARD to win it all.
 
Duke has something that Kentucky has not had since Rupp - A great coach and recruiter who is devoted to his University and had stayed put for years. That is absolutely the real key to long term success.
 
Duke always has been a thorn in UK's side in recruiting. That's nothing new. I'm not skeered, though. We have the best recruiter and program in basketball.
 
Originally posted by Cawood86:
Not that Cal won't still do great in recruiting, but I do think it will hurt. Cal was the one winning titles and going to FF's, now K has done it.

dUKe winning a title this year was not what UK fans should have ever wanted to see regarding recruiting IMO.
Yeah but K is destroying the college basketball game with the OADs, how long will their fanbase put up with that?
 
Originally posted by Cawood86:
Not that Cal won't still do great in recruiting, but I do think it will hurt. Cal was the one winning titles and going to FF's, now K has done it.

dUKe winning a title this year was not what UK fans should have ever wanted to see regarding recruiting IMO.
I said this the night Duke was playing Wisconsin that I couldn't see how anyone would cheer for Duke....closest to us in titles, not far behind in wins, etc...and that it would hurt our recruiting. Some on here agreed and others said I was crazy. I feel that Duke will get another title year after next because I would bet they land Giles and Tatum and could have Kennard return.
 
Originally posted by MSU129:


Originally posted by Cawood86:
Not that Cal won't still do great in recruiting, but I do think it will hurt. Cal was the one winning titles and going to FF's, now K has done it.

dUKe winning a title this year was not what UK fans should have ever wanted to see regarding recruiting IMO.
I said this the night Duke was playing Wisconsin that I couldn't see how anyone would cheer for Duke....closest to us in titles, not far behind in wins, etc...and that it would hurt our recruiting. Some on here agreed and others said I was crazy. I feel that Duke will get another title year after next because I would bet they land Giles and Tatum and could have Kennard return.
There seems to be a lot of love and respect for Krybabyschitzski and Dook on this Kentucky Board, for some reason? I'm still waiting for those particular supporters to say that UK should go all-in and adopt the academy award winning tactics of the Blue Floppers... since they're so awesome and everything.
 
Lol this is funny. So Coach k catches lighting in a bottle one year with three freshman and all th sudden he's the greatest? Let him do it a few more times then maybe! But everyone knows Duke was not by any stretch of the imagination the best team this year. They played 2 non mid majors that whole tourney and basically had that title handed to them
 
Originally posted by kyups01:
They played 2 non mid majors that whole tourney and basically had that title handed to them
Sigh. So now we're calling Gonzaga a "mid major." And Utah is in the Pac 12 last time I checked. So that's three Power 5 schools plus Gonzaga.

Lines like that are so self-defeating. They just make us look ridiculous.
 
Originally posted by JasonS.:
Originally posted by kyups01:
They played 2 non mid majors that whole tourney and basically had that title handed to them
Sigh. So now we're calling Gonzaga a "mid major." And Utah is in the Pac 12 last time I checked. So that's three Power 5 schools plus Gonzaga.

Lines like that are so self-defeating. They just make us look ridiculous.
Forgot u were a Duke fan. Sigh...
 
Originally posted by JasonS.:
Originally posted by kyups01:
They played 2 non mid majors that whole tourney and basically had that title handed to them
Sigh. So now we're calling Gonzaga a "mid major." And Utah is in the Pac 12 last time I checked. So that's three Power 5 schools plus Gonzaga.

Lines like that are so self-defeating. They just make us look ridiculous.
How many big wins can you rattle off by Gonzaga over major programs? Few is a good coach, but the results have not backed up their being talked about as a "major" program. They just haven't.
 
Originally posted by SilentsAreGolden:

Originally posted by yoshukai:

Originally posted by TNCatfanforever:
I know I will get booed for this....it is a problem for more than one reason. K is a much better bench coach and game management coach and plays a high octane offense while our style is slug it out...I am not complaining about all the final fours but there should have been 1-2 more championships in the last 6 years. We have been the better team at least 3 more times and didn't win it.
I agree with this . Luckily coach K can't take them all . Honestly, if something had happened and we didn't win it in 2012 , I would be seriously doubting if Cal would ever win one . But we did and I'm happy.
Cal has the same number of titles as Izzo, who pretty much everybody thinks is a better coach. It's HARD to win it all.
Izzo hasn't had near as many elite players as Cal.
 
Originally posted by kyups01:
Originally posted by JasonS.:
Originally posted by kyups01:
They played 2 non mid majors that whole tourney and basically had that title handed to them
Sigh. So now we're calling Gonzaga a "mid major." And Utah is in the Pac 12 last time I checked. So that's three Power 5 schools plus Gonzaga.

Lines like that are so self-defeating. They just make us look ridiculous.
Forgot u were a Duke fan. Sigh...
He's right. Duke had a fortunate enough path without you making stuff up.
 
K was late getting on the OAD train and it showed during the last 5 years when Duke got bounced early in disgraceful losses. K isn't stupid so he has gone into OAD mode. His team next year will not be anywhere near as good as this year. All three of his OAD's were exceptional especially Jones and JO. Players like that don't land on the same team very many times. Jeter and Kennard are good players but they need someone like Ingram to have any hope of contending next year.

As long as he is there, he will attract talent including OAD's . Duke and UK will be at the top of the heap as long as Cal and K are there.
 
Originally posted by wcc31:

Originally posted by kyups01:
Originally posted by JasonS.:
Originally posted by kyups01:
They played 2 non mid majors that whole tourney and basically had that title handed to them
Sigh. So now we're calling Gonzaga a "mid major." And Utah is in the Pac 12 last time I checked. So that's three Power 5 schools plus Gonzaga.

Lines like that are so self-defeating. They just make us look ridiculous.
Forgot u were a Duke fan. Sigh...
He's right. Duke had a fortunate enough path without you making stuff up.

You don't have to be a Duke fan to realize they beat a team we couldn't, everything else is sour grapes. We lost, they are national champs.

K is a great coach.

Why we have so many fans that cannot give credit to others is just so petty.
 
Any way you slice it Duke got a title this year without having the best team in college basketball.They were good no doubt but K did what he always does, he bitched and griped his way to a few wins they might not have gotten otherwise.The refs and the NCAA to care of Duke on occasion and they got lucky (like every other team)a few times.

Duke won and we didn't.I would have loved to play them somewhere along the way.The way things worked out probably did/will hurt us a bit in recruiting.In this day and age of OAD each class is unique.This class may be a little down but beyond that some of them don't seem to be buying what UK and Cal have been successfully selling for the past several years.If we had one or two more titles to show for the talent we have had it might be different

TheNCAA , Espn and the rest of the media ride K's bandwagon each and every year while Cal is one mis step away from being crucified for being what is wrong with all of college basketball.
 
Originally posted by SilentsAreGolden:

Originally posted by JasonS.:
Originally posted by kyups01:
They played 2 non mid majors that whole tourney and basically had that title handed to them
Sigh. So now we're calling Gonzaga a "mid major." And Utah is in the Pac 12 last time I checked. So that's three Power 5 schools plus Gonzaga.

Lines like that are so self-defeating. They just make us look ridiculous.
How many big wins can you rattle off by Gonzaga over major programs? Few is a good coach, but the results have not backed up their being talked about as a "major" program. They just haven't.
Very few. But they were better than Kansas (sans Alexander especially) ... our two seed. That's saying very little, I realize.

After two weeks, just getting tired of excuse making and cloud shouting. We lost it sucks move on.
 
UK and Duke will both land top players and continue to win championships. However, Coach K isn't immortal. When he gives it up will Duke be as successful? UK has proven itself.
 
Originally posted by docholiday51:

Any way you slice it Duke got a title this year without having the best team in college basketball.They were good no doubt but K did what he always does, he bitched and griped his way to a few wins they might not have gotten otherwise.The refs and the NCAA to care of Duke on occasion and they got lucky (like every other team)a few times.

Duke won and we didn't.I would have loved to play them somewhere along the way.The way things worked out probably did/will hurt us a bit in recruiting.In this day and age of OAD each class is unique.This class may be a little down but beyond that some of them don't seem to be buying what UK and Cal have been successfully selling for the past several years.If we had one or two more titles to show for the talent we have had it might be different

TheNCAA , Espn and the rest of the media ride K's bandwagon each and every year while Cal is one mis step away from being crucified for being what is wrong with all of college basketball.
We had more good players than Duke but if we had played Duke, they would have had 3 of the best 4 players on the court.
 
Originally posted by stenchymouse:


Originally posted by docholiday51:

Any way you slice it Duke got a title this year without having the best team in college basketball.They were good no doubt but K did what he always does, he bitched and griped his way to a few wins they might not have gotten otherwise.The refs and the NCAA to care of Duke on occasion and they got lucky (like every other team)a few times.

Duke won and we didn't.I would have loved to play them somewhere along the way.The way things worked out probably did/will hurt us a bit in recruiting.In this day and age of OAD each class is unique.This class may be a little down but beyond that some of them don't seem to be buying what UK and Cal have been successfully selling for the past several years.If we had one or two more titles to show for the talent we have had it might be different

TheNCAA , Espn and the rest of the media ride K's bandwagon each and every year while Cal is one mis step away from being crucified for being what is wrong with all of college basketball.
We had more good players than Duke but if we had played Duke, they would have had 3 of the best 4 players on the court.
Maybe,could have been a 2/2 split,but still would have been a nice game to watch.At any rate the Duke double standard get to be a bit too much sometimes.
 
I think it is a positive. Duke buying in to the one and done strategy normalizes it. More parents and top recruits now think it is the premier path. Duke can't get everybody and can't accept everybody. I'll split the top ten with Duke.
 
We don't have room for all the OAD's...

Duke is an attractive opportunity to kids who want to shine...

Jabari and Okafor are just part of the rotation at UK...but at Duke they are the center pieces...the offense goes through them early and often...and that's exactly what K pitches...

what's hurting UK's recruiting...is UK's recruiting...

Twins, JR, Lee, and Young...no Jabari or Wiggins...

KAT, Lyles, Ulis, Booker...no Okafor...

Skal, Matthews, Briscoe...no Kennard or Zimmerman...
 
If we are going to go strictly by conference, then yes, Gonzaga is a mid-major. You can't have it both ways. If we say Utah is a power conference simply because they are apart of the Pac-12 (they joined 5 years ago, btw), then the same applies for Gonzaga.

Duke is the hot school right now, and I still think they haul in the top class next year. However, it has nothing to do with winning a title this year or proving Coach K can win with freshman. He was getting these players regardless. Most thought he was going to get a monster class for 2016 not long after Duke got bounced early last year.
 
Originally posted by Chuckinden:

Originally posted by SilentsAreGolden:

Originally posted by yoshukai:

Originally posted by TNCatfanforever:
I know I will get booed for this....it is a problem for more than one reason. K is a much better bench coach and game management coach and plays a high octane offense while our style is slug it out...I am not complaining about all the final fours but there should have been 1-2 more championships in the last 6 years. We have been the better team at least 3 more times and didn't win it.
I agree with this . Luckily coach K can't take them all . Honestly, if something had happened and we didn't win it in 2012 , I would be seriously doubting if Cal would ever win one . But we did and I'm happy.
Cal has the same number of titles as Izzo, who pretty much everybody thinks is a better coach. It's HARD to win it all.
Izzo hasn't had near as many elite players as Cal.
Recruiting is part of coaching is it not?
 
Cal has won big, made multiple Final 4's, and won a championship with OAD's too, though. Coach K has landed and recruited elite OAD talent for a long time, back to the mid-to-late 90's even, even though the media paints him as a saint of their imaginary "education first, basketball second" fantasy world that just doesn't exist at any of the big programs no matter how esteemed the academics are at their schools and no matter how much the media protects them.

Not going to lie and pretend that the way the season ended didn't temporarily hurt us and help Puke moving forward with some recruits, but some are over-estimating it a bit. Recruits still want to go where they feel will best develop them for the next level, and there are former Kentucky players that Cal landed that play a big role for their teams all throughout the NBA playoffs right now, and it's going to be that way for years to come. Recruits will still want to play for the coach that gave players like John Wall, Brandon Knight, Boogie Cousins, Terrence Jones, Patrick Patterson, Anthony Davis, MKG, Enes Kanter, Nerlens Noel, Julius Randle, KAT, WCS, the list goes on and on the platform to thrive and prepared to play at the highest of levels in the NBA. No coach in America currently has a list even close to that to be able to point to and tell recruits "You see those names? Our program did that."
 
None of the remaining recruits we are after are considering Duke except Ingram. So...no...I don't think Duke has anything to do with it.
 
Originally posted by brianpoe:

Originally posted by wcc31:

Originally posted by kyups01:
Originally posted by JasonS.:
Originally posted by kyups01:
They played 2 non mid majors that whole tourney and basically had that title handed to them
Sigh. So now we're calling Gonzaga a "mid major." And Utah is in the Pac 12 last time I checked. So that's three Power 5 schools plus Gonzaga.

Lines like that are so self-defeating. They just make us look ridiculous.
Forgot u were a Duke fan. Sigh...
He's right. Duke had a fortunate enough path without you making stuff up.

You don't have to be a Duke fan to realize they beat a team we couldn't, everything else is sour grapes. We lost, they are national champs.

K is a great coach.

Why we have so many fans that cannot give credit to others is just so petty.
Thanks for saying that I have wanted to for a long time but didn't want to go through the bashing a person usually gets for using common sense. I am the furtherist thing from a Duke supporter as a matter of fact the only team I like to see lose more than them is UConn. I attended the Final Four and due to the fact that I paid way too much for lower level seats right behind Travis Ford and right beside GG Smith I stayed for Championship game and cheered for Wisconsin but they were outmatched and all season long I had been very impressed with Dukes team and was afraid they would be the last man standing but wouldn't dare say that on here, where everyone said they couldn't play defense couldn't do this or that....but they did.
 
Originally posted by docholiday51:


TheNCAA , Espn and the rest of the media ride K's bandwagon each and every year while Cal is one mis step away from being crucified for being what is wrong with all of college basketball.
This is exactly why I don't offer blind "respect" for the great and wonderful K... he's the Wooden of this day and age, that does as much bending the rules/cheating (or more) than anybody, but it all gets glossed over. Nothing to tarnish his polished image, eh?

The image has been manufactured so that K wears the White Hat, and Cal wears the Black Hat. If K had been held to Cal's standards, that façade would've crumbled quickly... but they wouldn't dream of taking away any of those 1K wins from their golden boy.

I guess the K-Lovers on here were all mushy on Roy Williams back in April of 2009. After all, he'd just won his 2nd title in 5 years... so that must've automatically made him great and worth all the similar K-like respect back then. But, we know a few things about Williams and UNCheat now, don't we?

At the moment, it looks like Roy may still get away with it... but we all definitely know that K will never get his just deserts.
 
I think K's success this year was less about OADs and more about the fact he finally got a true post scorer and MOST importantly, he got Winslow who's a badass physical athlete on the wing. K skews his recruiting toward skills guys. These days you need physicality and athleticism.
 
I just wonder what Duke will be like once K is gone? Can they be like UK, KU, and UNC and be successful with multiple coaches? Or will they be like Indiana and UCLA, programs who were defined by one era?
 
Out of all things I am worried about with Cal, recruiting is not one. Even if we don't close well, our 2016 class will be great.
 
WCC wrote:"I think K's success this year was less about OADs and more about the fact he finally got a true post scorer and MOST importantly, he got Winslow who's a badass physical athlete on the wing. K skews his recruiting toward skills guys. These days you need physicality and athleticism."



I think this is a great point and I think people are maybe overthinking the OAD aspect. Unlike the team Jabari was on, this one was a complete team. There was no missing cog ala 2014 with no big. And K is never going to play 10-12 guys, so even if he only had 8 (which became a tiring talking point), he had plenty as long as they could dodge the injury bug. I do think that his decision later in the season to shift Winslow to the 4, put Jefferson on the bench and bring in Matt Jones really seemed to change this team defensively in a dramatic way. And K tinkered with this team a ton. Throwing out the zone at Louisville, mixing 2/3 and 3/2 zones, 1-3-1 etc. More defensive tinkering than in any year I can recall.

The title certainly can't hurt but UK is still going to be the best recruiting school in College Basketball and Duke is still gonna get theirs as well. I felt all year that KY, Wisconsin and Duke were the three best teams. Duke stayed a little more under the radar but was significantly improving as the season progressed and the number of quality of wins they had gave a good enough indication of how dangerous they could be. Only Notre Dame beat Duke in the last three months of the season and even in that stretch Duke beat them by 30 points in one game.

What surprised me is that while Duke's defense was criticized during the season, nobody said a word about Wisconsin. Look at their field goal % defense, steals and 3 point defense. They are 10th or worse in their league in all those categories. Going into the title game I believe they were allowing at or near 50% shooting from 3 by the opposition. But they were so incredibly efficient on offense and valuing the ball that it masked the other issues. I really thought the Harrison's would drive them into oblivion or scorch them from 3. I rewatched the Duke/Wisconsin game from Dec. before the title game and nothing changed my mind in thinking that Duke's guards looked so far superior to Wisconsin's.

it all goes back to the madness of a one game scenario. Mikey Nikey Jordan started 0-2 iirc in one of his title years but it doesn't matter if you can win the next four in the NBA. The one game aspect is what makes the NCAA's both exciting and nauseating at the same time. Kentucky had a sensational year and I don't care what any jerk who hates Kentucky tries to say. When did their team last win 38 games? I'm pretty sure that you can count on one hand the number of times a team has won 38 games and Calipari may be the only coach of those teams. Mike Krzyzewski entered two NCAA Finals with 37 win teams and lost. (nauseating one game scenario again.)

Bottom line: Cal and Kentucky are pretty much going to get who they want, I don't think the title will have much of an impact.
 
Originally posted by UK_Norm:
I just wonder what Duke will be like once K is gone? Can they be like UK, KU, and UNC and be successful with multiple coaches? Or will they be like Indiana and UCLA, programs who were defined by one era?
I don't know but no coach can follow that same success. They just have to make a good and wise hire, that's what it will come down to. Kentucky has beaten Duke in two Final Fours coached by two different guys not named Krzyzewski. So they have been able to get there without him. If they're fortunate enough to hire anyone who could match what Vic Bubas did at Duke from 1959-1969 then I don't think too many Duke fans would be upset. (3rd most wins in the country in the 1960's decade. Three Final Fours, unbeaten in the ACC one year, only one loss in league play another year, etc)

It's tough though, a lot of competition out there in College Basketball these days and it won't get any easier. Will be interesting to see how the sport looks a decade from now in terms of rule changes and so forth.
 
Advantage Duke and Coach K if he keeps reeling in 5 star recruits. He's a far better x and o's coach. It's not even close. Coach K would have beat Wisconsin with our players by double digits. I still hate Duke!!
 
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT