CI Wrestling Thread #56
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One thing I do continue to like on AEW is the "Timeless" Toni Storm thing.
Just spitballing here:
Continuity - build programs around the same 8 or so fueds and progress the story every week in some fashion (matches, interference, promos, backstage interviews/brawls, etc.) for couple months. Get the audience used to the stories. Don’t start a feud, not mention it for three weeks and start it back.
Quit front loading shows to where the first hour is pretty good and the last hour is not. Don’t put your shittiest match on the card in the main event (Willow/Riho, for example)
Don’t make every debut a surprise. If you’ve got a legit star coming in, announce their signing and PROMOTE their first appearance heavily for more than a week.
Decide whether they want to grow the audience or be Ok with being a niche product that caters to a small but dedicated audience of hardcore fans who prefer indy/Japanese wrestling. That style has proven to never be much of a draw in the US, but if that’s what the hardcore fans want, give it to them, but a) don’t be surprised when ticket sales and ratings don’t improve b) keep WWE’s name from your mouth because you’re not and will never be equals. In other words, stop mentioning the alleged competition because it makes you look desperate for attention (see 2002-14 TNA).
MJF stuff was a draw compared to current TV ratings. And the Worlds End PPV was like their second best selling PPV of the year. Even when some of the stuff involving him was god awful, it was still a draw. For me, I don't really care if something is a draw if it's subjectively shit. I don't base my entertainment consumption habits on what makes money, I base it on what entertains me, and generally what draws the most money isn't particularly entertaining to me. Rather that be movies, music, wrestling, etc.
point 1 - Doesn't necessarily have to be a split. You can accomplish the same end goal by marketing your stars schedules ahead of time like WWE does. And even with a roster split, it's not going to help matters much. They could split the rosters 50/50 and the vast majority of the roster will still not be on TV. Say for example a person who is a huge fan of lucha libre wrestling and Penta is their favorite luchadore. Said fan only wants to buy a ticket if Penta is going to be on the show. Even if Penta is on the Dynamite roster, no one can have any confidence that he will be on any given Dynamite show on any given week. So even with a split roster, it would not alleviate a problem like this.
point 2 - just because someone has a wrestling mind doesn't mean they can book. That's like hiring someone to coach a basketball team just because they were a great basketball player. That doesn't mean they can coach. Listen to some of these current/ex wrestlers with podcasts, especially the ones that have been through the WWE. Some of their creative ideas are absolute brain rot material. WWE's creative may be led by Triple H, but all them writers doing all the leg work behind it don't have a wrestling background.
point 5 - agreed. For TV tapings, other than floor seats since those always sell well, everything else should be priced affordably. And that should be the case even if AEW turns hot. Until PPV tickets start to lag, no sense in changing the pricing there. Whatever pricing they are doing is still selling thousands of PPV tickets with ease and often without even as little as a glimmer of an idea of what matches are going to be on the card.
point 7 - Wardlow was awful when forced to start doing real matches instead of squashes and his best promos are just OK. Bron runs circles around him in terms of wrestling ability and mic ability. Wardlow just isn't good, and at age 36, it's time to admit it just isn't going to happen, at least not in AEW. Maybe he can go to NXT and they figure out how to turn some shit into gold.
Repeated mistakes aside, Dynamite hasn't been that bad lately to warrant a drop like this. But honestly, I watched a few minutes the other night and switched it off. I just didn't care about the bangers. I've found myself thinking about, listening to, and watching more WWE content lately. Raw was wild and today on Rock's IG he posted a video showing once the show ended, he kept the beatdown and trash talk going, basically saying "you think this ends once the show ends? Nah." AEW should take a few ideas from WWE that's working and use them. They're not too good for that when they're already using WWE's talent scraps. Right now it's like AEW is in a raft and the biggest yacht in the world named WWE UNIVERSE is passing them, causing waves to overtake them as the wrestlers hold on for dear life.
In my opinion, other than booking (which is getting better after they leaned too heavily into doing bad WWE version fo sports entertainment for the last half of 2023), AEW's biggest problem is marketing. It's flat out shit and relies almost entirely on social media word of mouth, and heavily on Twitter, which is losing subscribers at a rapid rate and doesn't have the reach amongst the demo audience that others, chiefly Instagram, Snapchat, and TikTok. I also never see paid AEW ads on social media. And if there any targeted ads that should be reaching me, it would be wrestling ads, so I feel pretty good at saying they don't invest in real social media advertising.
Local marketing is still either non-existent or largely only done in the week leading up to the show. And sometimes the talent doing the boots on the ground work aren't top talents or they are mostly wrestlers turned office guys like Big Show and Jeff Jarrett. One time they even had Nick Wayne doing it, like what the hell? And sometimes the talent doing the local marketing doesn't even appear on the show they are marketing, which is baffling. It needs to be the top talents, and it needs to be the ones that are going to be on the shows so when people see them interview they can be like "I want to go to this show now so I can see that guy live."
I have frequently read or heard about people saying that they didn't even know AEW was coming to their town until sometime during the week of. I mean yeah you can't avoid that completely, that would be an absurd expectation because there are some people that are just going to be completely obloivious to stuff no matter how much you get in their face with it, but it's not something that should be a common complaint.
I also think some of their top guys seemingly refusing to or not being open to doing some of this boots on the ground promotion sets a bad example for the rest of the roster. You never see the Bucks or Omega do it, Moxley has only done it when they went to Cincinnati, and others like Hangman, FTR, Christian (though that might not be the best choice if he does it in kayfabe lol), Jay White, Pac, and virtually the entire women's roster don't do it either. If many of the top talents, especially the EVPs, won't do it, then why should anyone else fell compelled to do it?
Now I'll give credit to guys like Joe, Swerve, Darby, OC, Kingston, Claudio, Danielson (to a lesser degree), Starks, Britt, Saraya, Mercedes, Roddy, Jericho, and Copeland seem plenty happy to go out and do that stuff. If even Eddie ****ing Kingston is willing to do it, there's no damn excuse for anyone else outside of family reasons or other professional commitments, like when Samoa Joe has to go film that TV show he does, for example.
Can you imagine if they had someone as unique and different as Toni Storm going on local media to promote shows? That character of hers, there's nothing like her in the entertainment world right now. It's that type of uniqueness that can easily stand out from the noise in a world where there's a billion thing vying for everyone's attention. Even people that don't like much of what AEW does creatively even admit that the character work with Storm is top notch. She's killing it in that role.
Local marketing is still either non-existent or largely only done in the week leading up to the show. And sometimes the talent doing the boots on the ground work aren't top talents or they are mostly wrestlers turned office guys like Big Show and Jeff Jarrett. One time they even had Nick Wayne doing it, like what the hell? And sometimes the talent doing the local marketing doesn't even appear on the show they are marketing, which is baffling. It needs to be the top talents, and it needs to be the ones that are going to be on the shows so when people see them interview they can be like "I want to go to this show now so I can see that guy live."
I have frequently read or heard about people saying that they didn't even know AEW was coming to their town until sometime during the week of. I mean yeah you can't avoid that completely, that would be an absurd expectation because there are some people that are just going to be completely obloivious to stuff no matter how much you get in their face with it, but it's not something that should be a common complaint.
I also think some of their top guys seemingly refusing to or not being open to doing some of this boots on the ground promotion sets a bad example for the rest of the roster. You never see the Bucks or Omega do it, Moxley has only done it when they went to Cincinnati, and others like Hangman, FTR, Christian (though that might not be the best choice if he does it in kayfabe lol), Jay White, Pac, and virtually the entire women's roster don't do it either. If many of the top talents, especially the EVPs, won't do it, then why should anyone else fell compelled to do it?
Now I'll give credit to guys like Joe, Swerve, Darby, OC, Kingston, Claudio, Danielson (to a lesser degree), Starks, Britt, Saraya, Mercedes, Roddy, Jericho, and Copeland seem plenty happy to go out and do that stuff. If even Eddie ****ing Kingston is willing to do it, there's no damn excuse for anyone else outside of family reasons or other professional commitments, like when Samoa Joe has to go film that TV show he does, for example.
Can you imagine if they had someone as unique and different as Toni Storm going on local media to promote shows? That character of hers, there's nothing like her in the entertainment world right now. It's that type of uniqueness that can easily stand out from the noise in a world where there's a billion thing vying for everyone's attention. Even people that don't like much of what AEW does creatively even admit that the character work with Storm is top notch. She's killing it in that role.
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I really wish she could better figure out how to balance her character with her ring work because the quality of her ring work has declined demonstrably due to having to be in character during matches. But outside of the bell to bell action it's been top notch work.
Appreciate the response.
On point 1, I think some, myself included, just don't know when and where we're going to see various wrestlers show up. It's a crap-shoot and tbh confusing at times. Hundreds of thousands know who is on Raw, who is on NXT, and who is on SD and if Cody is going to be on SD, it's heavily promoted on the other two shows. AEW feels like roster chaos, esp. with ROH people showing up at random.
Point 2 - of course. I'd want Jake Roberts helping with promos but not the book. Arn and JR aren't in the best of health these days. Flair? Hell no. Sting just wants to stay retired. But they've got Mark Henry and Show. Not saying it should only be retired wrestlers but I'd certainly listen to them and give them some power backstage. Unless TK realizes they're just in it for the check and nothing else. But then you've got Hangman who has admitted that he won't listen to the advice of vets because he and his friends helped start AEW. Maybe that's one of the problems with AEW - the wrestlers refuse to listen because they've had a short indie movement and convinced a billionaire's son to fund it.
Point 7 - Wardlow could be a monster in NXT. Maybe he'd fail on the main roster but he'd likely get treated better in WWE. TK was/is Goldberg and undefeated streak against jobbers obsessed and that hurts wrestlers long term. Fans can only watch a big dude do three moves and lay out some local who is that with a powerbomb for so long. Shit or get off the pot. If Wardlow sucks, he should be fired, no? It's the booking that's sucked. I thought he'd be a monster in the UK faction. He quickly returned to job matches, won one match which automatically gave him a random shot at the title, lost, and now he's Cole's lackey. He's also been MJF's lackey. His story is going backwards lol.
I don’t know what you could have honestly expected from Wardlow (other than something different then another lackey story lol). He is basically AEW's Ryback.
His track record is stunningly mediocre. He’s 36 years old. He’s shown zero progress at improving in the ring. He’s shown only moderate progress improving on the mic and still largely just relies on screaming and shouting to compensate for his relative lack of substance. He’s done nothing to overhaul his appearance other than getting a shitty haircut. He’s done nothing to improve his ring gear. He’s done nothing to improve his showmanship in the ring or during his ring entrance.
His best non-squash matches can be generously grades somewhere around a 6 or 7 on a 10-point scale, and there’s maybe two that would even qualify for that “high” of a grade. He had plenty of chances and failed to deliver every single time. Samoa Joe couldn’t even figure out how to carry this mother****er to a good match and Joe has had multiple cracks at him.
He’s only had one or two decent promos amongst a pool of shit promos.
Getting in a new stable isn’t going to magically make him good at either one of those things. Man has been coasting on physically looking like someone who should be great, but he doesn’t have a fraction of the talent that many countless numbers of less, to use a phrase of Jay Briscoe, “cosmetically pleasing” wrestlers possess.
Has his booking been good? No. But that’s no excuse for being a mediocre performer. Good performers take bad booking and make the most of it. He’s taken bad booking and done nothing with it. The only booking that's going to work with this guy is booking that limits his time on the mic and in the ring, and at that point why even bother keeping him under contract because he's largely useless.
As far as I’m concerned, AEW should have cut their losses with him months ago and stopped wasting valuable tv time on him and given it to someone else who needs or hasn’t gotten the opportunities he has been gifted. Imagine where someone like Hobbs, Starks, Garcia, Hook, Takeshita, Mark Briscoe, Penta, Fenix, or Rush could be if they had been given all the time that Wardlow got last year and this year. Instead, all that TV time has just been a completely wasted on a guy that, if he has any shred of intelligence, would leave for NXT the second his AEW contract expires.
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Tony rarely cuts his losses, he lets them sit at home like Bischoff used to or lets them appear in other promotions no one has heard of in front of 75 people. I could name 15 wrestlers he should fire but it won't happen. Miro is a putz who is rarely in the ring and it appears his personal life has fallen apart. Okay, give him a couple months off for personal and mental reasons - oh, he's already that, much longer than that in fact. Some give WWE shit for their annual future endeavors period and I get it, but at some point you've gotta recycle guys and girls out if it's not working while you bring in others who may work. Dolph may be happier right now instead of having 4 min. matches on SD or wrestling on the preshow of WM.
Thought SD was meh. Saw some online saying it's the same old Jade, that she's a little awkward on the mic and she's going to do the same few moves. It's sink or swim. Either she can handle the spotlight or she can't but people shouldn't move the goalposts. Months of trying to improve her won't equal 4 and 5 star bangers that last 20 minutes. That's not her. She may end up tagging with Bianca for several months until they think she's ready for more.
Thought SD was meh. Saw some online saying it's the same old Jade, that she's a little awkward on the mic and she's going to do the same few moves. It's sink or swim. Either she can handle the spotlight or she can't but people shouldn't move the goalposts. Months of trying to improve her won't equal 4 and 5 star bangers that last 20 minutes. That's not her. She may end up tagging with Bianca for several months until they think she's ready for more.
It's cool that Danielson isn't living a WWE-only career and he's able to face guys he'd never be able to face in WWE and it's cool that TK allows that - I just don't care. I know some do and I know he's happy with his braids and his random matches in Mexico. I know there's a wrestling world outside of WWE but I just don't care about CMLL or NJPW.
Dang Dave…
Dave Meltzer says that Mercedes Mone 'needs to wrestle' and that her commentary job on AEW Dynamite did more harm than good:
"I think it was really obvious on the show tonight that she needs to wrestle. That's how I viewed it.
"She was out there because it was the 9pm segment, and they counted on her being out there to draw the number knowing the match itself probably was not going to draw the number.
"To me, I don't think Mercedes just going out there and talking is knocking anybody dead, the key to her success is just having wrestling matches, just like Will Ospreay. She's not MJF, she's not CM Punk where they can talk and the talking is good enough.
"When I was watching it's like, she's got to do a match because this was not, it felt like as a star it wasn't happening.
"She came out, her look was great, then she did the commentary and I was like 'nothing is happening here', and the match was fine but it wasn't a blow away match or anything."
(Wrestling Observer Radio)
Dave Meltzer says that Mercedes Mone 'needs to wrestle' and that her commentary job on AEW Dynamite did more harm than good:
"I think it was really obvious on the show tonight that she needs to wrestle. That's how I viewed it.
"She was out there because it was the 9pm segment, and they counted on her being out there to draw the number knowing the match itself probably was not going to draw the number.
"To me, I don't think Mercedes just going out there and talking is knocking anybody dead, the key to her success is just having wrestling matches, just like Will Ospreay. She's not MJF, she's not CM Punk where they can talk and the talking is good enough.
"When I was watching it's like, she's got to do a match because this was not, it felt like as a star it wasn't happening.
"She came out, her look was great, then she did the commentary and I was like 'nothing is happening here', and the match was fine but it wasn't a blow away match or anything."
(Wrestling Observer Radio)
If she's cleared, which seems likely since she thinks every Wednesday night is a dance party, then I tend to agree. She was never going to wrestle every week but there inlies the problem, if she's not wrestling, what do you do with her? I'll always laugh at anyone who compared Mone to Punk. "Punk injured yet again? Welp, bring him back every few weeks and put a mic in his face. Problem solved and ratings go up." "Hold off on Mone's first match until Dynasty? Welp, bring her out every week and put a mic...oh. And ratings tank? Double oh." The Sapp's of the world who claimed she'd be a massive signing have been quieter than usual lately.
Morning, thought Collision was a really good show on Saturday, thought Smackdown was meh. Probably saving up for tonight. If you have time an interesting (IMO) read on Rock, Cody and Roman.
www.espn.com
'That's what makes it magic': The inside story on WWE's fan-driven WrestleMania pivot
The Rock's return and the road to WrestleMania 40 has been fantastic, but it wasn't the way it was originally planned.
Raw for tonight
The Rock & Undisputed WWE Universal Champion Roman Reigns to appear.
DIY & The New Day vs. The Judgment Day.
Candice LeRae & Indi Hartwell vs. Ivy Nile & Maxxine Dupri.
Sami Zayn vs. Bronson Reed.
The first hour of the broadcast will be commercial free.
The Rock & Undisputed WWE Universal Champion Roman Reigns to appear.
DIY & The New Day vs. The Judgment Day.
Candice LeRae & Indi Hartwell vs. Ivy Nile & Maxxine Dupri.
Sami Zayn vs. Bronson Reed.
The first hour of the broadcast will be commercial free.
The Rock is an A List guy and probably nearly a billionaire.
Carnies regardless of pay. I love it and appreciate it.
Carnies regardless of pay. I love it and appreciate it.
Problem with the other promotions is they just do not have the star power top to bottom to keep the programming interesting for the whole duration (even with great booking). Also, they have a very thin margin for error. What I mean by that is, even when the stars don't bring it 100% or "off" / have a down night in WWE, they are still pretty good. I know there are very few wrestlers EVER that has the Rock's abilities so not really fair to say, but if he cuts a really bad promo, it still is better than what the other promotions guys can deliver. And not just him, but take the top 10 guys in WWE, then take the top 10 of ALL other promotions combined, the 5-10 guys is a HUGE drop off with the other promotions.
It is very simple, the Wrestlers (performers) sell tickets, just like a really bad sports team, ONLY one or two really good players can't carry a franchise. You can get as creative as you want, write the best storylines possible, at the end of the day, if the wrestlers do not have the charisma or ability to sell it, it doesn't matter. I know it sounds so obvious what I posted, well because it is that obvious. You just can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit.
It is very simple, the Wrestlers (performers) sell tickets, just like a really bad sports team, ONLY one or two really good players can't carry a franchise. You can get as creative as you want, write the best storylines possible, at the end of the day, if the wrestlers do not have the charisma or ability to sell it, it doesn't matter. I know it sounds so obvious what I posted, well because it is that obvious. You just can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit.
Mr. Worker's Right's CM Punk: I'm here to sell merch, sell tickets, sell PPVs. But guaranteed money almost ruined wrestling.
Man has turned into a corporate boot licker. The guaranteed money is what saved wrestlers from having to work until they were a cripple.
CM Punk in the past: I wanted to meet and talk with the Elite to clear up things to do business but they didn't want to talk with me
CM Punk today: I won't talk to Colt Cabana without a lawyer. Also, I went to my lawyer after Hangman cut the worker's right promo because he went off script.
Though he made some good points about other stuff.
At this point, if it wasn't already obvious to everyone in hindsight, it should be now - CM Punk and AEW was a marriage that was guaranteed to fail.
Man has turned into a corporate boot licker. The guaranteed money is what saved wrestlers from having to work until they were a cripple.
CM Punk in the past: I wanted to meet and talk with the Elite to clear up things to do business but they didn't want to talk with me
CM Punk today: I won't talk to Colt Cabana without a lawyer. Also, I went to my lawyer after Hangman cut the worker's right promo because he went off script.
Though he made some good points about other stuff.
At this point, if it wasn't already obvious to everyone in hindsight, it should be now - CM Punk and AEW was a marriage that was guaranteed to fail.
Oh I don’t think dragon should post for a bit…that would be a bit hypocritical…
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