Cal: ulis won't return next year
- Thread starter Wall2Boogie
- Start date
People on the other side of that coin don't want to admit this, but it's actually Cals fault they feel that way. There's plenty of evidence to support it.
With tubby, this fan base bent over backwards waiting on a final four. Not a championship, a final four. I remember back then we'll as those were my high school years. All I wanted was a damn final four.
Enter Calipari:
I'll never forget his famous quote as told by William Wesley.
"It's going to be surreal and unprecedented."
Cals quote:
"I'm here to hang banners".
Honestly, all of this riled the fan base up, who was extremely passionate to begin with. People expected instant banner(s). Nearly 8 years later, and countless all Americans, we have one. It's kind of, eh, a let down to them of sorts. They're not bad fans, they just had extreme expectations brought on by the coaches people themselves.
Cal has done great and I think people are crazy if they don't believe another banner is coming. Cal will leave UK with 2 or 3 titles and pass Pitino here. It's just going to take longer than thought, and probably longer than it should have.
People that back cal 100% regardless of anything don't want to judge him off of the greats. They just want to say he's done great. But for others, he's being judged against guys who've won multiple or more titles. It's just the way it is. It's the bar for a coach of his caliber. Countless final tours are awesome, but he needs another ring.
IMO.
I look at it like it's unrealistic to believe a dynasty of titles were coming. This isn't the 70s, When he first came here I was thinking to myself....well what would be considered a success here. I figured 1 or 2 titles maybe in say 10 years.
This really all comes down to what you feel. If your a fan that places 100% importance on titles and nothing else.....well then yeah Cal didn't deliver on his promise (thus far).
4 final fours in 6 years is somewhat unprecedented. I don't know if many teams in the history of college basketball have done that.
So it all depends on what way your looking at things.
But if we are looking at titles if that's the criteria well Tubby only won 1, Pitino only won 1
Cal has 1 in 6+ years. That's not bad even just looking at titles.
This really all comes down to what you feel. If your a fan that places 100% importance on titles and nothing else.....well then yeah Cal didn't deliver on his promise (thus far).
4 final fours in 6 years is somewhat unprecedented. I don't know if many teams in the history of college basketball have done that.
So it all depends on what way your looking at things.
But if we are looking at titles if that's the criteria well Tubby only won 1, Pitino only won 1
Cal has 1 in 6+ years. That's not bad even just looking at titles.
He's hung 4 banners.
Basically, what you (and some others far worse than you) want is permission to have a tizzy fit and act like a spoiled 2nd grader because UK didn't finish off a 40-0 season last year. Well, boo-hoo, what an incredible failure 38-1 was.
And, BTW, Cal's not done. The longer he stays, the more likely that a 2nd national title happens. When it does, any complaints about how "oh, all those FF's were so disappointing" are going to look even more absurd than they do now.
Is the failure to win more titles something to hold against Cal in comparison to all-time greats? Yeah, it probably is. But that doesn't change the fact that going to 4 FF's in 6 years (after an 11 year drought) is an incredible accomplishment. "OH, he's not Wooden. Oh, he's not Rupp. Oh, he's not Krzyzewski". OK, maybe not (although he still has time to put his name in the discussion). But how is that grounds to come up with some BS in this thread who's mad at Cal because "he doesn't put UK first"?
Oh. That's right. It's not. At least not for any rational person.
People who don't feel he's putting UK first is missing the picture.
By putting the players first........that's the whole reason he gets these guys in the first place. That's why we've been to 4 of 6 final fours.
Anyone who thinks Cal isn't for the program is kidding themselves.
By putting the players first........that's the whole reason he gets these guys in the first place. That's why we've been to 4 of 6 final fours.
Anyone who thinks Cal isn't for the program is kidding themselves.
I have very little problems with cal, I was merely deciphering the differences here that most people don't take the time to do.
By the time cal reaches his second banner, he will be revered beyond all minus Rupp. I think the only variable with that is time.
I know what you think. Anyone that has a differing opinion than you on these topics are lunatics and crying baby girls. But I don't believe that. They're just expecting extreme results, rightly or wrongly. It's just sports man. Try getting worked up over something more ritcheous. Fan comes from fanatic. So you're actually the odd man out in these conversations. Trying to bring all out rationality into something that is named after "fanatics" is pretty bizarre.
Some people go way out, but so do Yankee fans. STL card fans. Packer fans. Etc. it's just the nature of the beast.
Did you read my entire post? I was just comparing and contrasting. I actuslly agreed for the most part.
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Calipari does all of this because he's always recruiting. It's his tool.
Regardless of what he says, he's an ultimate ego alpha dog. He wants to win more than anyone for this program and himself.
Or did someone miss him going ape shit on the sidelines for the last 7 years?
that is what is exactly what a sports lunatic is
the ones that believe "titles is all that matters" need to give up watching sports
i am still waiting for one of the "titles only" guys to give me a better model than the one Cal is using
Well I don't believe that, but I don't think those extreme fans do either. They just think he "should" have more considering.
They're probably the same UK fans that believe big nose at UNC failed because he had tons of all Americans over a 40 year span and only produced 2 titles. Actually, more than half of this fanbase believed it at one time.
The "cal does no wrong crowd" uses tons of hyperbole to describe our die hards. I was just kind of pouting out what (I believe) they're really trying to say. Again, rightly or wrongly, but this is UK. I love the passion all the way around. Sometimes we need the Mjk's as well.
I'm kind of just in the middle.
Ulis will go down as one of the greatest UK PGs of all time. If he stayed four years, he would possibly go down as THE greatest of all time. I know that doesn't necessarily pay the bills or put millions of dollars in the bank, but it means something.
Regardless of what Ulis does, he will be one of my favorite Cats ever.
Regardless of what Ulis does, he will be one of my favorite Cats ever.
if not "lunatics" then what would you call people that expect and fill entitled to the "extreme"
most schools that goes on a run like UK/Cal has normally do it with the same core group
Cal has done it with almost a new team each and every year
Pitino hit lighting in a bottle with a core group of players, many were either underrated or over achieved
Donovan had his run with the same core group
It's like people think that when we enter the tourney as the #1 overall seed we have a 99% chance to win it when that is nowhere near the case. I read that the top team has a 13% chance to win the whole thing. THIRTEEN PERCENT. People are so oblivious to the amount of luck that is involved in winning the whole thing. If it were the best 3/5 or 4/7 we'd win every other year, but it's not.
Cal is amazing and has given us the highest chance to win and has made UK basketball more entertaining that I can remember. Our players go on to be successful and show love to the program. It will suck for the next coach to follow Cal, but the support system he has built with former players and getting the fans back into it should make it a much easier hire than after Tubby. He has absolutely earned every penny we have given him and I wouldn't trade him for anything.
Cal is amazing and has given us the highest chance to win and has made UK basketball more entertaining that I can remember. Our players go on to be successful and show love to the program. It will suck for the next coach to follow Cal, but the support system he has built with former players and getting the fans back into it should make it a much easier hire than after Tubby. He has absolutely earned every penny we have given him and I wouldn't trade him for anything.
I'm not buying that 13% figure you posted. Last year's UK team had a much better chance to win going into the tournament than 13%. So did our 2010 team.
When you have the most talent and you are on a roll going into the tournament and lose to a team that everyone on this board knows we were better than, it crushes the entire fanbase.
So many posters are acting like our fans are crazy for thinking TITLE OR BUST, but when you are the best team, when you have Cal as your coach and when you are the odds on favorite to win you can't be surprised when fans go nuts.
There wasn't a single UK fan that wasn't disappointed with that loss to Wisconsin last year. Same with the 2010 loss to WVa.
The hyperbole of our die hards positions and outright misrepresentation of the situation never ceases to amaze me.
Cal is doing his thing and all will end wonderfully, but right now, there's nothing wrong if you expected slightly more. Hell, go back to cals comments and his people's comments in 2009. He expected a little more. It's not hating, it's the truth.
Some of these guys can't handle it.
Like I said, he's gonna leave here beautifully, behind only Rupp and be a legend, but it's ok to think "damn we shoulda/coulda had a few more" with an "oh well, still Rollin" attitude. Cal is not an average coach. He's a dynasty type / multiple title offender type coach. He's just not there "yet" and probably should be.
I don't know why it pisses so many off.
Good post.
Had a couple things gone right for us in 2011, 2014 and 2015 Cal is tied with Rupp. It was that close.
If that were the case these conversations are a lot different.
13% is too low. But I think the max I saw was like 30%.
I'm not sure anyone can make an argument for years other than 10,12 and 15. And we won one title.
It seems about right to me.
So to me there's two things at play here
1) It's much hard to win a title than some think. Even the best teams are projected to win around 30% of the time
2) I'm not sure people realize just how close teams are. Last year, we didn't lose a game in the regular season, but we weren't significantly better than Wisconsin or Duke.
I'm not sure anyone can make an argument for years other than 10,12 and 15. And we won one title.
It seems about right to me.
So to me there's two things at play here
1) It's much hard to win a title than some think. Even the best teams are projected to win around 30% of the time
2) I'm not sure people realize just how close teams are. Last year, we didn't lose a game in the regular season, but we weren't significantly better than Wisconsin or Duke.
I'd say if one is genuinely upset about us not accomplishing more, to the point he or she constantly brings it up, that person is out of touch. Everyone wishes we could do more, acting like it is some huge failure is ridiculous.
I know exactly how NBA contracts work. The average player in the NBA makes a little more than 4 million/year, so with Tyler making 10-12 million in your scenario you think he will be doing pretty darn good for himself so yes I can easily say if that's the case and Tyler plays 2 years for 1.5 million, 3 years for about 9 million and 3 years for another 30 million he will not lose sleep over losing possibly another two years of pay. I would argue if he is getting paid 10 million/year in his 6th, 7th and 8th year in the league, pretty safe to assume he will continue to keep playing and making more as he is obviously succeeding at the next level. Heck if he made just 40 million in his career and could have made 60 million by coming out earlier, you guys act like he has totally hosed himself. Its a ridiculous argument.
For the record again, I am not advocating he stay in school. But the has to go when you can crowd totally misses the boat IMO in their maximizing earnings potential debate. Professional sports is a different world. 10-15 million dollars is an amount of money most will never see and would totally change their life. Making 60 million vs 40 million (hypothetically), if they are hurting for income after making 40, then they would be after 60 too. (Antoine walker anyone)
We've only been the favorite twice. The 2010 season wasn't one of those times. We had a good shot, and I agree that it's frustrating we played badly, but losing to a West Virginia team that arguably should have been a one seed isn't some huge tragedy.
This one is hard...
Ulis will get drafted for sure...no doubt about it...if he keep on the track he is and leads a deep tourney run, he could end up in the first round...
However, there is no doubt that if he comes back, he is the face of college basketball...he's on all the sports magazine covers, he's on all the watch lists...he gets all the ESPN interviews with Mike n Mike and all that jazz...he's the man...and I think he could have an even better year next year...maybe even a year Kentucky basketball and CBB in general hasn't seen because most of the talent leaves after a year or two and rarely stays around...no doubt that he would be first round next year and probably top 20...
Also...Cal likes to sell...sometimes oversell...if he talks about how Ulis is gone for sure then he knows GMs are going to take more interest and wonder about who is telling Cal they are interested...it's the oldest trick in the book...No body is better at hype than Cal...
not that Tyler is worthy of Hype and all the love...but rarely has Cal said "nah...he's not going...he's not ready...he wont get drafted..."...
he spent all last season trying his best to get everyone to hop on the twins train...never missed a chance to praise either one...every half time interview, post game interview, etc..."oh andrew this...aaron that..."...now they took us on a great run, but he knew their draft stock wasn't great and there was a shot they'd go undrafted...he also knew he'd have tyler coming back and jamal coming in that they were alpha dogs and needed the lion's share of the run...so he campaigned for the twins all year to help them out...
Ulis will get drafted for sure...no doubt about it...if he keep on the track he is and leads a deep tourney run, he could end up in the first round...
However, there is no doubt that if he comes back, he is the face of college basketball...he's on all the sports magazine covers, he's on all the watch lists...he gets all the ESPN interviews with Mike n Mike and all that jazz...he's the man...and I think he could have an even better year next year...maybe even a year Kentucky basketball and CBB in general hasn't seen because most of the talent leaves after a year or two and rarely stays around...no doubt that he would be first round next year and probably top 20...
Also...Cal likes to sell...sometimes oversell...if he talks about how Ulis is gone for sure then he knows GMs are going to take more interest and wonder about who is telling Cal they are interested...it's the oldest trick in the book...No body is better at hype than Cal...
not that Tyler is worthy of Hype and all the love...but rarely has Cal said "nah...he's not going...he's not ready...he wont get drafted..."...
he spent all last season trying his best to get everyone to hop on the twins train...never missed a chance to praise either one...every half time interview, post game interview, etc..."oh andrew this...aaron that..."...now they took us on a great run, but he knew their draft stock wasn't great and there was a shot they'd go undrafted...he also knew he'd have tyler coming back and jamal coming in that they were alpha dogs and needed the lion's share of the run...so he campaigned for the twins all year to help them out...
We will have to agree to disagree on the west Virginia loss. I'm not going to say it was a huge tragedy but a team made up of Wall, Cuz, Patterson, Orton abd Bledsoe should absolutely crush that Wva team.
Didn't Duke run them out of the gym with Jon Scheyer as pg?
G - Fox
G - Monk
F - Willis
F - Gabriel
F - Adebayo
Bench
Lee, Wynard, Humphries, Mulder, Matthews, Jones
We gonna be good.
G - Monk
F - Willis
F - Gabriel
F - Adebayo
Bench
Lee, Wynard, Humphries, Mulder, Matthews, Jones
We gonna be good.
so you are saying that a 33% pay reduction to an athlete (or anyone else) means nothing
i do not know of one millionaire that would give up 20 million
I'd say unc fans spent most of their fandom disappointed then when dean smith was there...they had more Talent than anyone pretty much always and how many final fours did he lose or not even make. He must have been terrible.
No one would give it up but you cant give up what you don't have. It is unknown at this time how long of a career anyone will have once they get there and you cant apply the logic your trying to apply. You are automatically saying if he doesn't go this year then it will in fact cost him 10-12 million dollars at least and there is simply no basis for that. There is no shelf live for his career, he will play as long as his abilities allow him to play regardless when he declares.
.
And those fans have a very good reason to question what happened. The talent on those UNC rosters was unreal.
Doesn't matter though, it would just mean they would have more than 3 titles titles to vacate.
But the thing those people don't seem to take into account is those other coaches have been at major basketball and blueblood schools pretty much their entire careers.
Whether people want to admit or not, Cal spent the majority of his career coaching at shit holes, where a coach is expected to lose, and winning titles is next to impossible, yet he still almost accomplished it.
Cal has only had the luxury of coaching at a true blueblood basketball school since his time began at UK, and look at what he's done in that short amount of time.
Just imagine if Cal had spent the last 30+ years at major basketball school such as UK. I can't say this for a fact because I really have no idea how it would have played out, but I'm pretty confident that he probably would have won more than one title along the way.
Of course.
There's no reason that Cal shouldn't want to pass UCLA title totals
It's just not that easy to do.
This is true. But it's not going to matter for his perception in the end.
This is the stuff I'm talking about. People don't have to like it, but cal HIMSELF has a set a bar he really hasn't reached yet. I think he will, give more Time, but to act like some of our fanbase are lunatics for wishing we had what cal and his people said they want as well is ridiculous. We've just got a segment of fans that think all of this is a slight at cal and "their way" is the "moderate" way. Well, this is sports. Go find your safe zone at Missouri university if you can't handle it.
That's the beauty/beast of a one and done tournament. The sole reason it's called March Madness, and why it is considered so great.
In a 7 game series WVU didn't stand a chance, but unfortunately for UK, all WVU needed was one of the worst shooting nights imaginable for UK, one of the best shooting nights imaginable for them, and for their hobbled PG to become a hero.
The reason most fans love March Madness is because nothing is guaranteed, the best team often doesn't win it all, and the win or go home environment is gut wrenching and exciting.
I'm all for thinking UK could have won more, but disagree with those that expect them to have won more because that's taking the unpredictability of it all for granted.
Agree or not, like it or not, but the tournament is basically a crap shoot. There's a reason why UK has only won it 8 times in over 70 years, and that's the same reason why everyone tunes in to watch.
Cal is a "sandbagger" with his words more often than not when building teams through the year but he is also a realist for fans & players sake. Players come first but we know he wants titles as end results and even a 40-0 season because it doesn't get any better!
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