Cal’s #1 dilemma going forward…

[ukfan1622]

Auburn is playing 10 guys. I think I heard announcer say no one plays over 24 but no one plays less than 15. Go all out while you are on the floor.

I take that to mean that there isn't a big gap between their 2nd or 3rd best player and their 9th or 10th. For UK there seems to be a gap. Sheppard, Dillingham, and Wagner are the clear choices at guard and Reeves is the clear choice at the three(huge gap in level of play between him and Edwards). Mitchell is the clear choice at the 4 spot and, it's only one game, but it looks like Big Z might be the clear best of the seven footers. That would mean 10-12 minutes backup time for Ugonna at center and Bradshaw at the 4 and either Edwards or Thiero(or both with each only getting 5-6 minutes per game) at the three. Our starters and reserves should be pretty clear and there is a significant between all the starters and all the backups except for which guard comes off the bench.

 

[wildcat_nation28]

The best players will play!

 

[CincyUKFan]

We ALL see this, but will Cal ACTUALLY play them that few minutes????

I'm guessing NO.

He coddles the highly ranked recruits that are supposed to be NBA Draft picks.

If his whole thing is about getting guys drafted and having that as the legacy - he needs to wake up and realize:

Dilly, Reed, Z

will be drafted much higher and have better NBA careers than

DJ, Edwards, Bradshaw, and Ugonna

I’d even say that if Thiero were healthy and given 25-30mpg - he’d have potentially been a higher pick than these guys.

 

[JonathanW]

Is he is to going to have to swallow his ego and his pride and settle on the best 8 dudes to accomplish the mission of competing for a Championship with the players that are best suited for that task!

That’s not to say that the #9 or #10 guys won’t contribute along the way, but if he is serious about a second Title, he needs to put the NBA draft night BS behind him until he commits to that goal.

He has the team. He has the staff. He will ultimately make or break this by his own devices!

I do not agree.
Why?
1) There is very little difference between #6-7-8 and #9-10. I bet we would have trouble agreeing on who fits into which of those slots.
2) Different guys offer different aspects, important aspects, that are needed at times. Sometimes you need shot blocking and post D = Onyenso; sometimes you need rebounding and physical play and defense and hustle = Theiro (once healthy); what if the switch flips on Edwards.

So, the thing to do is to play for each game whoever is playing well that day/night.

As for talking about the draft, Edwards has only averaged 17.8 mpg the last 9 games. And if you only look at the 3 games during that period where either Theiro OR Ivisic was able to play the whole game, he averaged just 13.0 mpg those 3 games.

 

[NociHTTP]

With the way our games get called, we need a deep rotation in the post. He's gonna need to build that depth for a rainy day.

The way our games get called? The defense is terrible, and it's not just about his many times we let the other team score. We commit a lot of silly fouls.

 

[KentuckyMildCats]

You are so full of shit.

That dude is one of the few I have on ignore bc of what you said exactly. He's gotta be a troll, no real life uk fan acts like that. Or he's some AI lol

 

[K_TIME]

I do not agree.
Why?
1) There is very little difference between #6-7-8 and #9-10. I bet we would have trouble agreeing on who fits into which of those slots.
2) Different guys offer different aspects, important aspects, that are needed at times. Sometimes you need shot blocking and post D = Onyenso; sometimes you need rebounding and physical play and defense and hustle = Theiro (once healthy); what if the switch flips on Edwards.

So, the thing to do is to play for each game whoever is playing well that day/night.

As for talking about the draft, Edwards has only averaged 17.8 mpg the last 9 games. And if you only look at the 3 games during that period where either Theiro OR Ivisic was able to play the whole game, he averaged just 13.0 mpg those 3 games.

Just so I have a basis to know who some thinks are players 1-9

My list would be
1. Shep
2. Reeves
3. Mitchell
4. Wwgner
5.!Dilly. ( hard call to me between dilly snd dj)

Some distance

6. Thiero
7. Forecasting from one game…Ivisic js next
8. Ugo
9 Bradshaw….Ugo is way better on boards and rim protection….Bradshaw is better shooter but he’s not hitting but 1-2 jumpers a game so the defense and rim protection matters so much more

A ton of distance

10. Edwards

And to be fair Ivisic could climb into that top 5 grouping easily if he csn sustain his offense snd offer as good defense as Ugo

So to your statement there is little difference in Thiero Ivisic to Edwards…..no way that makes sense. Edwards is not on the same hemisphere as 6-8 on our roster

 

[CincyUKFan]

Just so I have a basis to know who some thinks are players 1-9

My list would be
1. Shep
2. Reeves
3. Mitchell
4. Wwgner
5.!Dilly. ( hard call to me between dilly snd dj)

Some distance

6. Thiero
7. Forecasting from one game…Ivisic js next
8. Ugo
9 Bradshaw….Ugo is way better on boards and rim protection….Bradshaw is better shooter but he’s not hitting but 1-2 jumpers a game so the defense and rim protection matters so much more

A ton of distance

10. Edwards

And to be fair Ivisic could climb into that top 5 grouping easily if he csn sustain his offense snd offer as good defense as Ugo

So to your statement there is little difference in Thiero Ivisic to Edwards…..no way that makes sense. Edwards is not on the same hemisphere as 6-8 on our roster

Mitchell has been solid on the offensive end. But he’s terrible defensively, both on the interior and the perimeter. Also doesn’t get nearly as many boards as he should for the minutes played.

Because of his IQ and passing and knack for and-1 plays in the paint, I’d keep him in that top 5. But Big Z could potentially be there because he’ll offer much more in terms of defense and rebounding, and I trust him to hit the wide open three (Mitchell is a bit inconsistent out there).

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Is he is to going to have to swallow his ego and his pride and settle on the best 8 dudes to accomplish the mission of competing for a Championship with the players that are best suited for that task!

That’s not to say that the #9 or #10 guys won’t contribute along the way, but if he is serious about a second Title, he needs to put the NBA draft night BS behind him until he commits to that goal.

He has the team. He has the staff. He will ultimately make or break this by his own devices!

I'm not sure this is true.

Pitino went 10 deep in 1996 with Walker, Delk, Anderson, Mercer, Epps, McCarty, Pope, Sheppard, Edwards, and Delk.

He also went 10 deep the next year, and was going 9 deep even after Anderson went down.

It might mean that some guys don't play in the title game (Turner didn't play in the 1996 title game, but 9 other guys did), but with the pace we play, I see no reason why we cannot continue to utilize 10 guys.

This is exactly what we've been asking for from Calipari for years.

 

[cats2010]

Just so I have a basis to know who some thinks are players 1-9

My list would be
1. Shep
2. Reeves
3. Mitchell
4. Wwgner
5.!Dilly. ( hard call to me between dilly snd dj)

Some distance

6. Thiero
7. Forecasting from one game…Ivisic js next
8. Ugo
9 Bradshaw….Ugo is way better on boards and rim protection….Bradshaw is better shooter but he’s not hitting but 1-2 jumpers a game so the defense and rim protection matters so much more

A ton of distance

10. Edwards

And to be fair Ivisic could climb into that top 5 grouping easily if he csn sustain his offense snd offer as good defense as Ugo

So to your statement there is little difference in Thiero Ivisic to Edwards…..no way that makes sense. Edwards is not on the same hemisphere as 6-8 on our roster

I would put quite a bit of distance between Ugo at 8 and Bradshaw at 9. Ugo gives the team what they need moreso than Bradshaw. Based on one game Big Z is also far far ahead of Bradshaw both on offense and defense. Both Ugo and Z had more boards and blocked shots in 5 and 6 minutes less playing time than did Bradshaw. Neither Bradshaw or Edwards are game changers at this stage, yet they make up 40% of our starting 5. Regardless of PT IMO Edwards no business starting nor playing very much at all and not so sure the same cannot be said of Bradshaw. Cal knows this but will start and play them more than they should anyway.

 

[TFCats11]

Ugo been playing better than Bradshaw

Agree 100%… Bradshaw can get only get better!

 

[TFCats11]

Don't see why we can't play everyone.

Everyone has a role.

It’s great having all that depth, but with Cal’s substitution patterns, hardly any particular 5 are playing very many minutes together as a cohesive unit.JMO

 

[Runnin'Ramel]

Edwards and Ugo may be the one's that Big Z's huge game effects the most. Hard to justify playing them over Z at this point.

I think Ugo brings more than Bradshaw at this point, actually. Could see it being case by case depending on the opponent, but Ugo is becoming one of college bball's elite shot blockers, and he alters a lot. Bradshaw isn't able to do much on defense at all, it seems. I've been very disappointed by his lack of skills at that end.

 

[TFCats11]

Hopefully the assistants are allowed some input. Cal is pretty much clueless on lineups.

Thanks for making my point using less words 👊🏻

 

[DeerTurkHunter1]

Edwards and Ugo may be the one's that Big Z's huge game effects the most. Hard to justify playing them over Z at this point.

Ugo can be used in spots to rebound and block shots

 

[DeerTurkHunter1]

I'm actually totally fine with 12 minutes for Edwards. It gives someone else a rest, and it would be nice to see if he can start to come alive. We cant NOT play him at all. We just need to cap his minutes until he proves otherwise.

Because if we could ever get that elite SF that we thought Edwards could be, we'd be very very tough to beat.

You’re right

 

[KENTUCKY_FLYER]

Is he is to going to have to swallow his ego and his pride and settle on the best 8 dudes to accomplish the mission of competing for a Championship with the players that are best suited for that task!

That’s not to say that the #9 or #10 guys won’t contribute along the way, but if he is serious about a second Title, he needs to put the NBA draft night BS behind him until he commits to that goal.

He has the team. He has the staff. He will ultimately make or break this by his own devices!

Cow would fvck up a steel ball in a sand box. Wright it down.

 

[STL_Cat]

Cal is going to do what’s best to win like always. There is no ego to set aside.

Haters gonna hate. Just live that miserable life. UK is moving on with or without you.

Speaking of haters, how about that Antonio Reeves?

 

[storm1507]

Just so I have a basis to know who some thinks are players 1-9

My list would be
1. Shep
2. Reeves
3. Mitchell
4. Wwgner
5.!Dilly. ( hard call to me between dilly snd dj)

Some distance

6. Thiero
7. Forecasting from one game…Ivisic js next
8. Ugo
9 Bradshaw….Ugo is way better on boards and rim protection….Bradshaw is better shooter but he’s not hitting but 1-2 jumpers a game so the defense and rim protection matters so much more

A ton of distance

10. Edwards

And to be fair Ivisic could climb into that top 5 grouping easily if he csn sustain his offense snd offer as good defense as Ugo

So to your statement there is little difference in Thiero Ivisic to Edwards…..no way that makes sense. Edwards is not on the same hemisphere as 6-8 on our roster

I would agree with this ranking of the importance of our players except in groups.

1. Shep, Reeves, Mitchell
2. DJ, Rob, Thiero, Big Z (he could move up to group 1..don't think he'll move down)
3. Ugo, Bradshaw, Edwards

The individual rankings would move from game to game so much I don't think they could be ranked.

 

[jrpross]

Edwards only had 12 minutes tonight. He's getting left behind already unless he can play better.

Poor guy had a pair of 3-pointers and 3 rebounds in those 12 minutes too. He does occasionally show flashes of what he could be but he’s just terribly inconsistent. He could be really good in another year but I seriously doubt we’ll get to see it.

 

[Runnin'Ramel]

Poor guy had a pair of 3-pointers and 3 rebounds in those 12 minutes too. He does occasionally show flashes of what he could be but he’s just terribly inconsistent. He could be really good in another year but I seriously doubt we’ll get to see it.

If Edwards was HALF of what we expected as a top 3 recruit labeled a potential #1 NBA draft pick by "experts," this team would be unbeatable and steamroll the rest of the regular season en route to the overall #1 seed in March.

 

[Boyd94]

Edwards is no better than Burks. The only reason he's playing so much is promises made by Cal. Prove me wrong.

 

[TheDude73]

Edwards and Ugo may be the one's that Big Z's huge game effects the most. Hard to justify playing them over Z at this point.

I disagree. The ones Z impacts should be Bradshaw and Edwards. Bradshaw, to me, is a solid 3rd on the list of our three bigs. Ugonna brings a lot more in defense and rebounding than Bradshaw, and it's not even close. Edwards just needs to sit. He literally brings nothing except an occasional three pointer. I was rooting for him, but I'm done and ready to see him replaced.

Another thing that annoys me about Bradshaw is he's one of those over-celebrators when he scores. Our team is gone and on the way back to play D and he's still back there flexing and barking "yaawwwww leeeet's goooooo!".

 

[BigBlue1992]

I would put quite a bit of distance between Ugo at 8 and Bradshaw at 9. Ugo gives the team what they need moreso than Bradshaw. Based on one game Big Z is also far far ahead of Bradshaw both on offense and defense. Both Ugo and Z had more boards and blocked shots in 5 and 6 minutes less playing time than did Bradshaw. Neither Bradshaw or Edwards are game changers at this stage, yet they make up 40% of our starting 5. Regardless of PT IMO Edwards no business starting nor playing very much at all and not so sure the same cannot be said of Bradshaw. Cal knows this but will start and play them more than they should anyway.

Nobody is arguing that Bradshaw hasn’t lived up to the hype but who else you gonna play? Z just made his debut yesterday and Thiero has been out for how many games now. Sounds like you expect Ugonna and Tre to play 40 mins without being subbed.

 

[Oldbluefart]

I truly feel Coach Cal will figure out how to fit everyone into a plan on winning the championship. My concern is if all the players will agree with what happens.
Take the AM game; if a healthy Adou is playing, I believe he would have impacted one of their guards enough for us to pull out a win that day.
Then last night the play that impressed me was when Georgia tried to impound the ball and Z grabbed the thing out of mid air. This kid is long and can cause many issues when the other team tries to throw the ball in.

I see a situation where who plays depends on who is hot, who is not, who is rebounding, who is guarding, who is having trouble with their man; last night for no reason but Dilly brought all his usual hustle but the refs handcuffed him to a point he was not impacting the game much. Next man up.

Some can bash Wagner but he is one who can beat anyone off the dribble to the basket and finish. there will be games when this style of play will be needed.

If anything going forward, Sheppard needs more shots; at least 3-4 more per game.

Georgia had that bid dud in the middle; send in our big dude, Ugo.
Come Auburn, I could see where Ugo's playing time could be affected some.
Come Tennessee, his playing time could be greater.

Let the game situation determine what weapon you send out there. We have plenty to use.

Last thing, I would love to see come March, Cal bring out some sort of press and throw all 10 guys out there 2-3 minutes at a time.

 

[Ripcord65]

Is he is to going to have to swallow his ego and his pride and settle on the best 8 dudes to accomplish the mission of competing for a Championship with the players that are best suited for that task!

That’s not to say that the #9 or #10 guys won’t contribute along the way, but if he is serious about a second Title, he needs to put the NBA draft night BS behind him until he commits to that goal.

He has the team. He has the staff. He will ultimately make or break this by his own devices!

Thanks for this post TF ! You make an excellent point - one undoubtedly not popular, I'm sure, among the Calipari Sunshine Pumpers ! Thanks for posting the courage of your convictions ! Calipari will, indeed, make or break this team by his own devices !
And, whatever CCC does ... Go 'Cats ! ! !

 

[BigBlue1992]

Against the kinds of teams we will see in the tournament, Thiero has been tremendous.

I love Thiero and believe he has a ton of upside but that is not true. He played great against Kansas. That’s the only game he’s scored in double figures. He averages 7 and 5 a game.

This is not to bash by no means. He deserves a lot of playing time. He is versatile but he’s not Julius Randle either.

 

[cats2010]

Nobody is arguing that Bradshaw hasn’t lived up to the hype but who else you gonna play? Z just made his debut yesterday and Thiero has been out for how many games now. Sounds like you expect Ugonna and Tre to play 40 mins without being subbed.

Nope, I’m fine with Bradshaw starting because he can bring value to the team and benching him would hurt is frame of mind too much IMO. That being said I would reduce his minutes in favor of Z, Ugo and Mitchell as they all three bring more to the table than Bradshaw. Bradshaw brings more offensively than Ugo but we don’t need his offense and he doesn’t bring that much. Bradshaw played more minutes last night than Z and Ugo which Z is understandable with it being his first game but honestly he looked fine condition wise last night. He has been practicing this whole time so he isn’t completely out of shape, just needs a few games to get game shape going. Bradshaw doesn’t perform well enough to play 20-25 minutes per game but guessing cal will keep doing just that.

 

[CincyUKFan]

I love Thiero and believe he has a ton of upside but that is not true. He played great against Kansas. That’s the only game he’s scored in double figures. He averages 7 and 5 a game.

This is not to bash by no means. He deserves a lot of playing time. He is versatile but he’s not Julius Randle either.

It is true friend. He played well against UNC - epesially defensively, in very limited minutes. The game of basketball is about more than just offense. And it’s great having a guy who is happy to be the 5th option and do the dirty work and make game-changing, momentum shifting plays.

Also, when a guy doesn’t average many minutes, it’s good to look at stats per 40 minutes and things like that. His stats look much better when you take that into consideration. If this dude played 30mpg and was healthy, he’d be headed to the NBA after this season. Don’t take my word for it either - check out scouting material on him.

 

[BigBlue1992]

Nope, I’m fine with Bradshaw starting because he can bring value to the team and benching him would hurt is frame of mind too much IMO. That being said I would reduce his minutes in favor of Z, Ugo and Mitchell as they all three bring more to the table than Bradshaw. Bradshaw brings more offensively than Ugo but we don’t need his offense and he doesn’t bring that much. Bradshaw played more minutes last night than Z and Ugo which Z is understandable with it being his first game but honestly he looked fine condition wise last night. He has been practicing this whole time so he isn’t completely out of shape, just needs a few games to get game shape going. Bradshaw doesn’t perform well enough to play 20-25 minutes per game but guessing cal will keep doing just that.

Again.. you’re going off of where we were. Bradshaw has had to play that many mins. Starting yesterday, things will likely change.

I do believe Z is good. Is he as good as we seen yesterday? Time will soon tell. But we can’t just assume he’s gonna do that every game until he’s proves he can.

I do agree Ugonna is better than Bradshaw.

As far as Cal starting Bradshaw and Edwards, I think he’s just trying not to hurt their frame of mind just as you said. I mean he’s bringing the subs in before the first TV timeout.

Honestly if he wants to start them but bring Sheppard and Dillingham off the bench almost immediately, so be it. Yes it is very silly but that’s who Cal is and I don’t see him changing that.

The biggest difference is it doesn’t appear he’s gonna allow one guy to shoot us out of a game as he has allowed in previous years.

 

[BigBlue1992]

It is true friend. He played well against UNC - epesially defensively, in very limited minutes. The game of basketball is about more than just offense. And it’s great having a guy who is happy to be the 5th option and do the dirty work and make game-changing, momentum shifting plays.

Also, when a guy doesn’t average many minutes, it’s good to look at stats per 40 minutes and things like that. His stats look much better when you take that into consideration. If this dude played 30mpg and was healthy, he’d be headed to the NBA after this season. Don’t take my word for it either - check out scouting material on him.

Oh like I said, I love Thiero and do believe he’ll be in the NBA. He is a very solid piece. But he had 1 rebound against UNC.

As far as the mins go, that’s his own fault. Cal has said numerous times that he stays on Thiero about his conditioning not being very good. He said he’s raising his hand to come out after 2 mins.

That’s one part that a coach can’t help him with. He’s gotta wanna get better with that.

 

[cats2010]

Again.. you’re going off of where we were. Bradshaw has had to play that many mins. Starting yesterday, things will likely change.

I do believe Z is good. Is he as good as we seen yesterday? Time will soon tell. But we can’t just assume he’s gonna do that every game until he’s proves he can.

I do agree Ugonna is better than Bradshaw.

As far as Cal starting Bradshaw and Edwards, I think he’s just trying not to hurt their frame of mind just as you said. I mean he’s bringing the subs in before the first TV timeout.

Honestly if he wants to start them but bring Sheppard and Dillingham off the bench almost immediately, so be it. Yes it is very silly but that’s who Cal is and I don’t see him changing that.

The biggest difference is it doesn’t appear he’s gonna allow one guy to shoot us out of a game as he has allowed in previous years.

Wasn’t trying to say Bradshaw didn’t need to be playing 25 minutes a game up to this point rather moving forward. My prediction however is that regardless of production Bradshaw will continue getting those same minutes when not warranted (will just have to wait and see on that). Bradshaw does bring enough to continue starting so as not to hurt his psyche but Edwards does not. He has been given enough of a chance but it’s just not there (at least for now).

 

[CincyUKFan]

Oh like I said, I love Thiero and do believe he’ll be in the NBA. He is a very solid piece. But he had 1 rebound against UNC.

As far as the mins go, that’s his own fault. Cal has said numerous times that he stays on Thiero about his conditioning not being very good. He said he’s raising his hand to come out after 2 mins.

That’s one part that a coach can’t help him with. He’s gotta wanna get better with that.

I’m not complaining about his minutes. I’m pointing out that you can’t just point to a guy’s averages without considering their averages per minutes played. Thiero’s numbers per 40 are pretty good, as is his plus/minus.

 

[yes_takeaside]

The best players will play!

Lol

 

[DreadLox]

#1 dilemma? Sugar-free Gummi Bears

 

[Shep2win]

This is why Edwards and Bradshaw have to see less minutes. Edwards gets beat constantly on defense and doesn't do enough on offense to make up for it. Bradshaw gets Posted up to easily, but can score, just doesn't rebound good enough for a kid his size.

Big Z looks GREAT at protecting the rim, rebounding, hedging and rotating on defense to go with his AMAZZING offensive skills.

When Theiro returns, putting him on the floor with Z should make our defense better.

Wagner and Shep aren't that great at keeping their man out of the paint, but do so much more that they have to play about what they do now.

Dillingham is either hot or cold(like tonight). But his defense is WORSE than Wagner and Shep.

Mitchell and Reeves should and DO get the MOST minutes.

Ugo is a spot player that can protect the rim too.

That's 10 players!!! I realize Cal said he would NEVER platoon again, but he could with these 10.

After saying all of that, Cal has a rep for playing the NBA Draft prospects over everyone else.

Cal scrapped the platoon style the year we started 38-0. That system would have destroyed Wisconsin and Duke. There were players who could have kept it going if given the chance. He has played the highest rated recruits ever since that time and the program has suffered. I also think defense is going to be our biggest problem, not using only 8 players.

 

[KA4Prez]

I'm not sure 11 guys will play, but given this STYLE, which includes some significant stints of pressure and running, there's no reason this team can't rotate at least nine players.

Reeves 25
Mitchell 25
Wagner 25
Sheppard 25
Dillingham 25
Ivisic 21
Bradshaw 15
Edwards 15
Onyenso 12
Thiero 12

Something like this. Not perfect, but it can work.

 

[harlanhomeboy]

I want to see a death lineup of

Rob
Reed
Antonio
Tre
Big Z

Bombing 3s from every position. Insane pressure on the other team defensively. That lineup should get 10 mins a game at least! Best starting 5 might be:

DJ
Reed
Antonio
Adou
Big Z

Rob and Tre first subs in

 

[storm1507]

I'm not sure 11 guys will play, but given this STYLE, which includes some significant stints of pressure and running, there's no reason this team can't rotate at least nine players.

Reeves 25
Mitchell 25
Wagner 25
Sheppard 25
Dillingham 25
Ivisic 21
Bradshaw 15
Edwards 15
Onyenso 12
Thiero 12

Something like this. Not perfect, but it can work.

I like that breakdown except I really think Thiero (when healthy) is really more important to us He provides exactly what this team has been lacking since his absence....defensive toughness and more rebounding.

 

[cats2010]

I want to see a death lineup of

Rob
Reed
Antonio
Tre
Big Z

Bombing 3s from every position. Insane pressure on the other team defensively. That lineup should get 10 mins a game at least! Best starting 5 might be:

DJ
Reed
Antonio
Adou
Big Z

Rob and Tre first subs in

I despise Cals starting lineup but I also despise some of the combos he puts out there multiple times during the games more. The last 3 games the time Ugo and Bradshaw have spent on the floor together has grown with each game, even with Z in the mix against GA. Love these two lineups above and I’m going to be paying attention over the next several games over the combos cal uses and how long he uses them. Specifically interested in how many minutes he keeps 2 of the 3 7 footers on the floor at the same time. I’m guessing with cal, that is going to be around 75% but will see.