Among The Dumber Themes Is Cal Doesn't Recruit Shooters

[dlh331]

All the following were considered very good shooters in their respective classes

Dodson in 2009

Knight/Lamb in 2010

Wiltjer in 2011

None really in 2012

Twins and Young in 2013

Towns, Lyles, Ulis and Booker in 2014

Mulder/Murray in 2015

Those shooters listed above would stack up versus any in UK's history over a 7 year period.

Now, as to whether Cal is closer to Denny Crum than Rick Pitino in VALUING the 3 points shot...that is worthy of SOME criticism. I mean really Cal...5 3 point attempts versus Wisconsin (with 2 in the last 12 seconds or so)
with Booker, Ulis, Aaron and Andrew out there.

Darryl

 

[king of cali]

Now, as to whether Cal is closer to Denny Crum than Rick Pitino in VALUING the 3 points shot...that is worthy of SOME criticism. I mean really Cal...5 3 point attempts versus Wisconsin (with 2 in the last 12 seconds or so)
with Booker, Ulis, Aaron and Andrew out there.

Darryl

Is that Calipari not valuing the 3, or did Wisconsin do something specific to take them away? The number of 3 point attempts in the 2014 game were low also. Without going back and looking at box scores, I don't remember UK having so few 3 point attempts against the same opponent.

 

[GonzoCat90]

Should also be noted that Towns was our best offensive option, and Andrew was fantastic in that first half. Plus, Booker, who was our best shooter, was struggling defensively in the game.

That's why it's ridiculous to point to a single game as any indicator of anything.

 

[W2R]

The theme that gets me the most is each year when we have a mass exodus, fans saying certain kids need to come back because they are not ready. Then they go pro and the same fans say Cal needs to recruit some guys that will stay longer , but then when he goes after a kid that's not viewed as a OAD, they complain that he is a project or not that good......lol. It's like they contradict themselves every year! We have had people just as recent as poythress, WCS, Harrison twins, lamb, jones, Ulis, Lee, ect.

I don't understand this at all. We always have a top class but they hate the kids leaving after one year.

We actually have talented kids return, but yet they complain we need to,recruit over them because they are not panning out or talented enough to start . If Cal,actually recruited one or two top 20 players and the rest role players, these type of fans would lose their minds and start saying it was the end of days ........

 

[Trouthound]

I think Coach Cal recruits the best "all around" guys and the guys he can help get to the League.

He doesn't seem to focus on individual "stars" on a 5 star recruits rating.

He seems to recruit the best player out there for each position, and has confidence they can be "coached up" on the things upon which they can "grow". Not a crazy strategy.

I think the Harrisons are exceptions that prove the rule.

 

[UKWildcats#8]

Is that Calipari not valuing the 3, or did Wisconsin do something specific to take them away? The number of 3 point attempts in the 2014 game were low also. Without going back and looking at box scores, I don't remember UK having so few 3 point attempts against the same opponent.

UK intentionally did not shoot 3's in 2014/2015 because Wisconsin's D was appalling, and UK could get to the rim at will against them. I still am not quite sure what happened the last 5 minutes in 2015...the guys just froze up/choked. I hate to say it, but Wisconsin could not stop our guys from getting good shots inside by driving/posting-up.

 

[UK_Johnny24]

Doran Lamb and Devin Booker. Both were possibly the best shooters in their class. Now I do wish we could get one of those prototypical white boy pure shooters ever once in a while though. I wanted Kennard bad. We need to have a lights out 3pt shooter every season.

 

[Chuckinden]

He will recruit them, but doesn't run many plays for them.

 

[Xception]

Doran Lamb and Devin Booker. Both were possibly the best shooters in their class. Now I do wish we could get one of those prototypical white boy pure shooters ever once in a while though. I wanted Kennard bad. We need to have a lights out 3pt shooter every season.

Those guys you speak of are typically horrid at playing defense , that's why you won't see that under Cal and thank goodness for that .

 

[doneitall]

Doran Lamb and Devin Booker. Both were possibly the best shooters in their class. Now I do wish we could get one of those prototypical white boy pure shooters ever once in a while though. I wanted Kennard bad. We need to have a lights out 3pt shooter every season.

 

[doneitall]

#8 I agree with you, having a pure shooter is best way to beat a zone plus it is a weapon that opponents defense must stay home and take away double teams. Even if they can't play defense as good as teammates their advantages on shooting makes up for their defense

 

[UK_Johnny24]

Those guys you speak of are typically horrid at playing defense , that's why you won't see that under Cal and thank goodness for that .

Its worth the trade off dude. Having 1 guy who isn't a lock down defender who shoots 46-48% from 3 is well worth it IMO. Especially when we got other good defenders on the team.

 

[5iveStarRecruit]

He will recruit them, but doesn't run many plays for them.

^^^^^^^

 

[CUT-NETS]

Part of me wonders if 2010 didn't scare Cal from emphasizing the three point shot in his offense. If you notice in final four games how few threes we shoot I think Cal wants to make sure we don't fall in love with the three and have another 2/29 shooting night that cost us a big game. I guess its a fine line because you might have a 15/29 kind of night and blow everyone away. Personally I think you recruit the best shooters you can and live with their results.

 

[BlueSince92]

Only loosely related but I'd just like to say, after 11 years of Tubby and Billy begging anyone and everyone to bomb us into oblivion, how much I really appreciate it that Cal's teams defend THE SNOT out of the three.

 

[mj2k10]

Only loosely related but I'd just like to say, after 11 years of Tubby and Billy begging anyone and everyone to bomb us into oblivion, how much I really appreciate it that Cal's teams defend THE SNOT out of the three.

The stats on that are pretty enlightening. Three point shooting in the college game has pretty much leveled off over the last 20 years. The average number of 3 point attempts per team hit 17 in 94-95, 18 in 01-02, and has gone over 19 only once, in 07-08. Shooting % on 3's has been between .340 and .352 since 93-94. This makes comparisons between then and now pretty valid. So here are the numbers for what Cal's teams have allowed from 3:

14-15: 16.6 attempts per game, 27.1% shooting
13-14: 17.2/32.2%
12-13: 16.7/32.4%
11-12: 17.2/31.8%
10-11: 17.1/32.4%
09-10: 20.6/31.3%

Clyde's 2 teams:

08-09: 20.2/35.2%
07-08: 18.2/32.6%

And then Tubby:

06-07: 22.5/33.4%
05-06: 20.0/32.6%
04-05: 20.0/32.9%
03-04: 19.4/32.8%
02-03: 17.6/33.3%
01-02: 20.0/33.7%
00-01: 20.2/35.4%
99-00: 20.8/32.6%
98-99: 20.6/33.0%
97-98: 20.8/34.6%

There's a theory that it's very hard to control an opponent's 3 point shooting % (something these numbers kind of confirm). The difference between good and bad 3 point shooting % is very, very small. What you mainly control is how many 3's the opponent attempts. Cal may not appreciate the 3 that much as an offensive weapon, but he's clearly focused on defending against it in a way that Tubby Smith never was.

I also find it interesting that the 2 UK teams that allowed the highest % were the 2 teams that played a clearly athletically inferior player at guard for huge chunks of time- Saul in 00-01, Michael Porter in 08-09. This could be a hidden, hard to measure value for athletic ability on the perimeter. It might be hard to control an opponent's 3 point % that much in the long run, but if you play an inferior athlete at guard, the average difficulty of the 3's your opponent is taking suddenly decreases.

In other words, playing a combo of say DeAndre Liggins and Cliff Hawkins at guard might not see the opponent shoot significantly worse from 3 than normal, but would make them likely to get fewer attempts. Playing Saul Smith and Michael Porter at guard might not see all that many more 3 point attempts, but would see a much higher % made.

 

[Xception]

Its worth the trade off dude. Having 1 guy who isn't a lock down defender who shoots 46-48% from 3 is well worth it IMO. Especially when we got other good defenders on the team.

Considering Cal doesn't play zone and has stated he can't hide you , it's not worth it . Lamb shot the best % at UK and could still play defense , he wasn't a liability . One weak link can be taken advantage of , look no further than Wiltjer . It's what you would like to see happen but it's not in UK's best interest to do so , otherwise everybody would be trying to have that setup but they don't for a good reason .

 

[BlueSince92]

Great analysis MJ

 

[CUT-NETS]

The stats on that are pretty enlightening. Three point shooting in the college game has pretty much leveled off over the last 20 years. The average number of 3 point attempts per team hit 17 in 94-95, 18 in 01-02, and has gone over 19 only once, in 07-08. Shooting % on 3's has been between .340 and .352 since 93-94. This makes comparisons between then and now pretty valid. So here are the numbers for what Cal's teams have allowed from 3:

14-15: 16.6 attempts per game, 27.1% shooting
13-14: 17.2/32.2%
12-13: 16.7/32.4%
11-12: 17.2/31.8%
10-11: 17.1/32.4%
09-10: 20.6/31.3%

Clyde's 2 teams:

08-09: 20.2/35.2%
07-08: 18.2/32.6%

And then Tubby:

06-07: 22.5/33.4%
05-06: 20.0/32.6%
04-05: 20.0/32.9%
03-04: 19.4/32.8%
02-03: 17.6/33.3%
01-02: 20.0/33.7%
00-01: 20.2/35.4%
99-00: 20.8/32.6%
98-99: 20.6/33.0%
97-98: 20.8/34.6%

There's a theory that it's very hard to control an opponent's 3 point shooting % (something these numbers kind of confirm). The difference between good and bad 3 point shooting % is very, very small. What you mainly control is how many 3's the opponent attempts. Cal may not appreciate the 3 that much as an offensive weapon, but he's clearly focused on defending against it in a way that Tubby Smith never was.

I also find it interesting that the 2 UK teams that allowed the highest % were the 2 teams that played a clearly athletically inferior player at guard for huge chunks of time- Saul in 00-01, Michael Porter in 08-09. This could be a hidden, hard to measure value for athletic ability on the perimeter. It might be hard to control an opponent's 3 point % that much in the long run, but if you play an inferior athlete at guard, the average difficulty of the 3's your opponent is taking suddenly decreases.

In other words, playing a combo of say DeAndre Liggins and Cliff Hawkins at guard might not see the opponent shoot significantly worse from 3 than normal, but would make them likely to get fewer attempts. Playing Saul Smith and Michael Porter at guard might not see all that many more 3 point attempts, but would see a much higher % made.

Which might lend some insight as to Cal's recruiting decisions at guard. It certainly has for me. Which is more important; a guard that can knock down threes, or one that can defend the three? Hopefully you can get one that can do both but its not always that easy. There's some give and take there. Cal might see a big athletic kid that can occasionally knock down a shot and prefer him over the knock down shooter that occasionally gets exposed defensively. I can definitely see his logic there.

Going by this criteria, Devin Booker is probably the perfect basketball player. Good size, good athleticism, and a deadly shooter. I felt like he was a very solid defender, and also better at slashing and getting to the rim than was given credit for. Problem is, Devin Bookers seem to be more and more rare.

 

[.S&C.]

Cal has always preferred length and defense to shooting. Trying to argue that is a losing battle. I prefer length and defense as well, I just wish he'd have the emphasis on specialty shooters that someone like K has. I don't think it's a stretch to say cal could have 3 championships right now with more elite shooting.

He didn't recruit Wiltjer.
Dodson was not seen as a lights out guy.
You admit '12 was zero.
I'll give you knight and lamb. (Final four and title)
Don't know about Murray Mulder yet.

Cal doesn't just crap on specialty shooters, but they aren't a point of emphasis for him.

 

[brdmn22]

Cal has always preferred length and defense to shooting. Trying to argue that is a losing battle. I prefer length and defense as well, I just wish he'd have the emphasis on specialty shooters that someone like K has. I don't think it's a stretch to say cal could have 3 championships right now with more elite shooting.

He didn't recruit Wiltjer.
Dodson was not seen as a lights out guy.
You admit '12 was zero.
I'll give you knight and lamb. (Final four and title)
Don't know about Murray Mulder yet.

Cal doesn't just crap on specialty shooters, but they aren't a point of emphasis for him.

How did Cal not recruit Wiltjer?

 

[Hoskins91]

The reason we have fallen short in the past is generally because we had a bad night at the wrong time. Those nights are going to happen, no matter who you have on the roster. I personally don't want a guy on the roster who is a one trick pony.

As far as whether or not we should be taking more threes or not, we really haven't had many people who I would want taking a large volume of threes, at least when their feet are not set and they are not wide open. If your best, or one of your best scorers is a guy who can hit threes in a myriad of ways, then okay, but that has not really been the case for us.

 

[UK_Johnny24]

As long as we have a guy like Lamb or Booker every year I'm happy. This year I think we'll actually have a very, very good 3pt shooting team. Maybe the best that Cal's had so far. Murray, Ulis, and Mulder are all really good 3pt shooters and all 3 should shoot over 40% from down town. Then Briscoe might be a slightly better shooter than Andrew Harrison too.

 

[CUT-NETS]

Cal has always preferred length and defense to shooting. Trying to argue that is a losing battle. I prefer length and defense as well, I just wish he'd have the emphasis on specialty shooters that someone like K has. I don't think it's a stretch to say cal could have 3 championships right now with more elite shooting.

He didn't recruit Wiltjer.
Dodson was not seen as a lights out guy.
You admit '12 was zero.
I'll give you knight and lamb. (Final four and title)
Don't know about Murray Mulder yet.

Cal doesn't just crap on specialty shooters, but they aren't a point of emphasis for him.

Bullcrap man!! Outrage! He's been to 4 Final Fours!! Outrage! Outrage!! Lookout man, you can't talk about the titles that he should have won. You have to just be happy with what we have and not discuss "what should have beens".

Anyway, I agree completely. I think had Cal placed greater emphasis on specialty shooters he could have another title or two to his name. And I know a crowd is going to ascend with "But Cal does recruit shooters, etc etc" and yes he does but he doesn't value it like he does other parts of the game.

 

[Clive Gollings]

Bullcrap man!! Outrage! He's been to 4 Final Fours!! Outrage! Outrage!! Lookout man, you can't talk about the titles that he should have won. You have to just be happy with what we have and not discuss "what should have beens".

Anyway, I agree completely. I think had Cal placed greater emphasis on specialty shooters he could have another title or two to his name. And I know a crowd is going to ascend with "But Cal does recruit shooters, etc etc" and yes he does but he doesn't value it like he does other parts of the game.

Are you a victim? You are a constant contrarian about everything positive about Calipari, and now you're a victim too?

 

[TeoJ]

Cal has always preferred length and defense to shooting. Trying to argue that is a losing battle. I prefer length and defense as well, I just wish he'd have the emphasis on specialty shooters that someone like K has. I don't think it's a stretch to say cal could have 3 championships right now with more elite shooting.

He didn't recruit Wiltjer.
Dodson was not seen as a lights out guy.
You admit '12 was zero.
I'll give you knight and lamb. (Final four and title)
Don't know about Murray Mulder yet.

Cal doesn't just crap on specialty shooters, but they aren't a point of emphasis for him.

If Cal didn't recruit Wiltjer please advise who did.

 

[65pacecar]

Bullcrap man!! Outrage! He's been to 4 Final Fours!! Outrage! Outrage!! Lookout man, you can't talk about the titles that he should have won. You have to just be happy with what we have and not discuss "what should have beens".

Anyway, I agree completely. I think had Cal placed greater emphasis on specialty shooters he could have another title or two to his name. And I know a crowd is going to ascend with "But Cal does recruit shooters, etc etc" and yes he does but he doesn't value it like he does other parts of the game.

If Meeks would have stayed one more year no way we lost to WVU. Not Cals fault he left, but with a great shooter like him that team wins it all.

 

[Bigblueforever]

If Meeks would have stayed one more year no way we lost to WVU. Not Cals fault he left, but with a great shooter like him that team wins it all.

Agree on Meeks.

 

[.S&C.]

If Cal didn't recruit Wiltjer please advise who did.

This was explained when Wiltjer committed. Calipri wasn't really recruiting Wiltjer and the commitment came from left field. The Wiltjers sought out Calipri more so than The other way around. Cal never even made a visit. When Wiltjer committed Cal stated he was as shocked as anyone. Then Wiltjer transferred because he doesn't fit he system and that's why he wasn't recruited by Cal. Of course, you don't turn him away, but arguing cal values shooters because of a commitment he wasn't pursuing is disingenuous.

He values defense first and length second. "Specialty shooting" has not been as big of a concern and I'd argue it's no coincidence his championship came when he got "lights out" Lamb.

I was just saying Cal doesn't value the art of shooting the three point shot the way he values defense and length. People can try to twist and contort it, but Cals methods are what they are.

 

[CUT-NETS]

This was explained when Wiltjer committed. Calipri wasn't really recruiting Wiltjer and the commitment came from left field. The Wiltjers sought out Calipri more so than The other way around. Cal never even made a visit. When Wiltjer committed Cal stated he was as shocked as anyone. Then Wiltjer transferred because he doesn't fit he system and that's why he wasn't recruited by Cal. Of course, you don't turn him away, but arguing cal values shooters because of a commitment he wasn't pursuing is disingenuous.

He values defense first and length second. "Specialty shooting" has not been as big of a concern and I'd argue it's no coincidence his championship came when he got "lights out" Lamb.

I was just saying Cal doesn't value the art of shooting the three point shot the way he values defense and length. People can try to twist and contort it, but Cals methods are what they are.

This. Excellent post.

 

[.S&C.]

This. Excellent post.

I really don't feel that it's a contriverisial take. Anybody who objectively calls Cal what he is will say "shooting" in general isn't what he's mainly concerned about. Defense, high percentage shooting, and length. I mean, that's how he got the UK job. That's what his Memphis teams were known for. We've been a team of garbage men under the basket(put backs) and rim attacking lots of the time.

Cal gets a bad rap on the free throw shooting so it's made our supporters want to find reasons to defend it and I do believe that is where a lot of this comes from. But it is what it is imo.

 

[CUT-NETS]

I really don't feel that it's a contriverisial take. Anybody who objectively calls Cal what he is will say "shooting" in general isn't what he's mainly concerned about. Defense, high percentage shooting, and length. I mean, that's how he got the UK job. That's what his Memphis teams were known for. We've been a team of garbage men under the basket(put backs) and rim attacking lots of the time.

Cal gets a bad rap on the free throw shooting so it's made our supporters want to find reasons to defend it and I do believe that is where a lot of this comes from. But it is what it is imo.

I share his philosophy of heavy emphasis on defense. Its truly what wins championships and the statistics support that. I also love on the ball pressure (like what Ulis provides) as i think it derails a team's offense from the get-go.

But yes, another shooter or two along with some emphasis for creating opportunities for that shooter and Cal may very well have another title or two.

Davis won the title and got us to the promise land in 2012 but it was Lamb that was drilling those daggers in the end.

 

[.S&C.]

I share his philosophy of heavy emphasis on defense. Its truly what wins championships and the statistics support that. I also love on the ball pressure (like what Ulis provides) as i think it derails a team's offense from the get-go.

But yes, another shooter or two along with some emphasis for creating opportunities for that shooter and Cal may very well have another title or two.

Davis won the title and got us to the promise land in 2012 but it was Lamb that was drilling those daggers in the end.

Yea and that's all I've really wanted. Love the ball pressure defense and I also love high percentage. Cal has been incredibly successful because of it. Ibe always felt it shoot be easy for cal to get a few spot guys, so I've been critical of that. But I wouldn't trade philosophies, I'd just tweak it. Agree.

 

[.S&C.]

Should also be noted that Towns was our best offensive option, and Andrew was fantastic in that first half. Plus, Booker, who was our best shooter, was struggling defensively in the game.

That's why it's ridiculous to point to a single game as any indicator of anything.

I'd agree except for the fact that in sports it all comes down to how you perform in a "single game". Even in baseball, it still comes down to finishing a single game in the end. In our sport, single games determine everything.

 

[GonzoCat90]

I'd agree except for the fact that in sports it all comes down to how you perform in a "single game". Even in baseball, it still comes down to finishing a single game in the end. In our sport, single games determine everything.

Yeah, but it doesn't signify any type of philosophy or trend. We shot poorly against WVU while they made everything. UCONN was too quick for us. Wisconsin played efficiently, we defended poorly, and they got the crucial calls.

It's not like the same thing always beats us. You just lose sometimes. It happens to every team but one each year, and it's magified when you go deep every year like we do.

 

[Poetax]

Bullcrap man!! Outrage! He's been to 4 Final Fours!! Outrage! Outrage!! Lookout man, you can't talk about the titles that he should have won. You have to just be happy with what we have and not discuss "what should have beens".

Anyway, I agree completely. I think had Cal placed greater emphasis on specialty shooters he could have another title or two to his name. And I know a crowd is going to ascend with "But Cal does recruit shooters, etc etc" and yes he does but he doesn't value it like he does other parts of the game.

Cut, again you overreact to this every time. The guy posted an opinion about shooting and how improved shooting might have helped us win a NC that we didn't win. No one argues this, it's your constant complaining about that and Cal's bad coaching job in every thread that irritates most UK fans.

 

[.S&C.]

Yeah, but it doesn't signify any type of philosophy or trend. We shot poorly against WVU while they made everything. UCONN was too quick for us. Wisconsin played efficiently, we defended poorly, and they got the crucial calls.

It's not like the same thing always beats us. You just lose sometimes. It happens to every team but one each year, and it's magified when you go deep every year like we do.

Oh yea absolutely. I think there's a few trends in some of our big losses, such as some of the things we've been discussing here, but yea that's all true.