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After hearing, UNC awaits NCAA ruling in academic case

HICATFAN

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Aloha, sorry if this has been provided previously...good read...

Robert Deutsch-USA TODAY Sports
After hearing, UNC awaits NCAA ruling in academic case

North Carolina has wrapped up a two-day hearing with an NCAA infractions committee panel that will decide whether the school faces penalties tied to its multi-year academic scandal.

Now the case goes into yet another holding pattern.

School officials spent much of Wednesday in a closed-door meeting with committee members in Nashville, Tennessee. They returned Thursday morning for a second session lasting about 4+ hours with the panel that will determine whether UNC faces penalties such as fines, probation or vacated wins and championships.

NCAA spokeswoman Stacey Osburn confirmed the hearing was complete but both sides were mum afterward.

Osburn didn't comment further because the panel must deliberate before issuing a ruling, which typically comes weeks to months after a hearing. UNC athletics spokesman Steve Kirschner said the school wouldn't have any comments about the hearing either.

Getting through the hearing process was a major step toward resolution in a delay-filled case tied to irregular courses, though there's still the potential for the case to linger beyond a ruling if UNC decides to appeal or pursue legal action. The school faces five top-level charges, including lack of institutional control.

The focus is independent study-style courses in the formerly named African and Afro-American Studies (AFAM) department. The courses were misidentified as lecture classes that didn't meet and required a research paper or two for typically high grades.

In a 2014 investigation, former U.S. Justice Department official Kenneth Wainstein estimated more than 3,100 students were affected between 1993 and 2011, with athletes making up roughly half the enrollments.

The NCAA has said UNC used those courses to help keep athletes eligible.

The case grew as an offshoot of a 2010 probe of the football program that resulted in sanctions in March 2012. The NCAA reopened an investigation in summer 2014, filed charges in a May 2015, revised them in April 2016 and then again in December.

Most notably, the NCAA originally treated some of the academic issues as improper benefits by saying athletes received access to the courses and other assistance generally unavailable to non-athletes. The NCAA removed that charge in the second Notice of Allegations (NOA), then revamped and re-inserted it into the third NOA.

UNC has challenged the NCAA's jurisdiction, saying its accreditation agency - which sanctioned the school with a year of probation - was the proper authority and that the NCAA was overreaching in what should be an academic matter .

The NCAA enforcement staff countered in a July filing: ''The issues at the heart of this case are clearly the NCAA's business.''

UNC has argued non-athletes had access to the courses and athletes didn't receive special treatment. It has also challenged Wainstein's estimate of athlete enrollments, saying Wainstein counted athletes who were no longer team members and putting the figure at less than 30 percent.

UNC chancellor Carol Folt, athletic director Bubba Cunningham, men's basketball coach Roy Williams and women's basketball coach Sylvia Hatchell attended both hearing days. Football coach Larry Fedora, who wasn't at UNC at the time in question, attended Wednesday's session.

None of the coaches are charged with a violation. But football and men's basketball are referenced in the broad-based improper benefits charge tied to athlete access to the irregular courses, while women's basketball is tied to a charge focused on a former professor and academic counselor Jan Boxill providing improper assistance on assignments.

Boxill and Deborah Crowder, who is also charged individually in the case, attended Wednesday with their attorneys but didn't return Thursday. Crowder is a former AFAM office administrator who enrolled students, distributed assignments and graded many of the papers in irregular courses.

The infractions panel is chaired by Southeastern Conference Commissioner Greg Sankey and includes former U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales.

After reading this, do you think UNCheats get hammered and lose 1 or 2 Banners?

AlohaCat
 
Sadly I don't think they get much of anything but I'll be the first to say I don't know much about this case. I will say no matter the outcome UNC's legacy is tarnished and every win and championship they have one in the timeframe of the scandal should be questioned. The one good thing that will come out of this is that never again can a UNCheat fan scream "The Carolina Way" without being laughed at! The Carolina way has now become a punchline!!!
 
The one good thing that will come out of this is that never again can a UNCheat fan scream "The Carolina Way" without being laughed at! The Carolina way has now become a punchline!!!
Speaking from experience: that will NOT stop them!!

The Chapel Hell propaganda machine has them all believing that this mess was 2 rogue employees and had zero to do with their squeaky clean program.
 
Cheating student athletes out of a real education should be everyone's concern. The fact that you have former student athletes filing lawsuits against the university is reason enough. Any other university would be put on SACS probation or have their accreditation removed until corrected. This is also the concern of the NCAA, which has as it's objective to make sure STUDENT athletes receive the classes making them eligible for graduation should they complete their full education. Creating paper classes for eligibility purposes should be viewed as an improper benefit since non athletes did not receive the same treatment. Time to take away wins and banners.
 
I think there is a chance the NCAA is tired of UNC telling them what they can or cant do to them. Through this whole thing they have basically said , go away were not listening, and you can't or don't have the rights to question us , because were above the rest of the schools.
 
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Sadly I don't think they get much of anything but I'll be the first to say I don't know much about this case. I will say no matter the outcome UNC's legacy is tarnished and every win and championship they have one in the timeframe of the scandal should be questioned. The one good thing that will come out of this is that never again can a UNCheat fan scream "The Carolina Way" without being laughed at! The Carolina way has now become a punchline!!!
BREAKING NEWS!!! THIS JUST IN!!!.... The University of North Carolina has just placed the NCAA on 3 years probation!!!
 
Wow, from 1993-2011 would include a lot of forfeited games and banners.. If the NCAA grows a pair and lowers the boom that UNC***** has coming, the program will be in shambles. They will have several banner 'lowering' parties and several asterisks added to their history..
 
Wow, from 1993-2011 would include a lot of forfeited games and banners.. If the NCAA grows a pair and lowers the boom that UNC***** has coming, the program will be in shambles. They will have several banner 'lowering' parties and several asterisks added to their history..
Wouldn't that be AWESOME !!!! and even more so Justified !!!!!!!!
 
Here's what I want to happen.

NCAA punishes them for this nonsense.
UNC** takes them to court because it's not their jurisdiction or whatever nonsense.
NCAA revokes their membership for failure to abide by the rulings.
UNC** no longer sports in a meaningful way.

Membership in the NCAA is voluntary and is not a fundamental right the universities have. You agree to the rules and punishments as a member. If you don't follow them, good on you. Kick rocks.
 
One thing is for sure, I wouldn't want to be the NCAA right now. They are going to get criticized either way.

But, if I were them, I would come out with a punishment that is middle of the road, not too harsh, but hard enough to leave a mark.

Banners should come down, maybe let them keep the 93 banner, but take 05 and 09.

If the NCAA does nothing, they should get crucified. If they punish UNC they will get negative press from guys like Bilas and a couple of UNC homer analysts and media members, but at least they won't get outrage from all the other smaller schools that they have hammered for less over the years.

It's an uuuuugly position they are in though.
 
Anyone else think they'll give out a "meh" punishment ?

Like something random. Maybe they only have to vacate the 93 banner and get to keep the more recent titles to stay "relevant"

I can see them maybe vacating the 93 season, perhaps 1 more random season. Take away a couple scholarships and give Roy a 3 game suspension, then (even tho that's a WEAK punishment ) the NCAA can be like "look! See! We punished them!" When in fact they deserve much more than that.

When and if NCAA throws out a bogus Punishment I can see other schools baiting the NCAA to come knocking on their doors when something "sketchy" is brought to light.
 
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Cheating student athletes out of a real education should be everyone's concern. The fact that you have former student athletes filing lawsuits against the university is reason enough. Any other university would be put on SACS probation or have their accreditation removed until corrected. This is also the concern of the NCAA, which has as it's objective to make sure STUDENT athletes receive the classes making them eligible for graduation should they complete their full education. Creating paper classes for eligibility purposes should be viewed as an improper benefit since non athletes did not receive the same treatment. Time to take away wins and banners.

Cheating black students out of an education using a sham African-American Studies Department. :joy: Doesn't get much lower than that.

Take some brass ones to try to defend that, but UNC hasn't flinched.
 
Cheating student athletes out of a real education should be everyone's concern. The fact that you have former student athletes filing lawsuits against the university is reason enough. Any other university would be put on SACS probation or have their accreditation removed until corrected. This is also the concern of the NCAA, which has as it's objective to make sure STUDENT athletes receive the classes making them eligible for graduation should they complete their full education. Creating paper classes for eligibility purposes should be viewed as an improper benefit since non athletes did not receive the same treatment. Time to take away wins and banners.
yeah i remember saying this in 2012. and where is the naacp?
 
Wow, from 1993-2011 would include a lot of forfeited games and banners.. If the NCAA grows a pair and lowers the boom that UNC***** has coming, the program will be in shambles. They will have several banner 'lowering' parties and several asterisks added to their history..
The NCAA case isn't looking at that broad a time span.
 
One thing is for sure, I wouldn't want to be the NCAA right now. They are going to get criticized either way.

But, if I were them, I would come out with a punishment that is middle of the road, not too harsh, but hard enough to leave a mark.

Banners should come down, maybe let them keep the 93 banner, but take 05 and 09.

If the NCAA does nothing, they should get crucified. If they punish UNC they will get negative press from guys like Bilas and a couple of UNC homer analysts and media members, but at least they won't get outrage from all the other smaller schools that they have hammered for less over the years.

It's an uuuuugly position they are in though.
 
but at least they won't get outrage from all the other smaller schools that they have hammered for less over the years.

Like the school that got sanctioned b/c the woman vollyball player used the school's water to wash her car..
 
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Tonight I attended a church picnic...and talked with 3 buddies who are die-hard Heels. So I asked them:
1- What are you expecting?
"Nothing...because we did nothing wrong."

2- The evidence from your own report and NCAA investigation says you DID do something wrong.
"Every school has cake classes. There's nothing wrong with that."

3- So when the NCAA drops the hammer on your program, will you accept that as justice and admit you did something wrong?
"If that happens (and it won't), it's only because everyone hates UNC. We never get a break."
 
Tonight I attended a church picnic...and talked with 3 buddies who are die-hard Heels. So I asked them:
1- What are you expecting?
"Nothing...because we did nothing wrong."

2- The evidence from your own report and NCAA investigation says you DID do something wrong.
"Every school has cake classes. There's nothing wrong with that."

3- So when the NCAA drops the hammer on your program, will you accept that as justice and admit you did something wrong?
"If that happens (and it won't), it's only because everyone hates UNC. We never get a break."
did you tell them they got a break seeing cheater roy coach a full recruiting cycle when they should have been on probation.
 
it takes months and months to deliberate. they need more time than congress.

each step of this process has taken years. it's like insurance companies earning more than a settlement costs on the interest built over the stalling process. the ncaa sucks at its job. i still can't believe roy williams coached another four years after the wanstein report was released. unc played silent and has no shame and would sell its credentials for a final four appearance. the ncaa is a bureaucratic pillsbury doughboy that only cares about money and could rationalize murder if it increased their ratings or protects their marshmallow image.
 
Tonight I attended a church picnic...and talked with 3 buddies who are die-hard Heels. So I asked them:
1- What are you expecting?
"Nothing...because we did nothing wrong."

2- The evidence from your own report and NCAA investigation says you DID do something wrong.
"Every school has cake classes. There's nothing wrong with that."

3- So when the NCAA drops the hammer on your program, will you accept that as justice and admit you did something wrong?
"If that happens (and it won't), it's only because everyone hates UNC. We never get a break."

Wow, but expected from every UNCheat!!!

AlohaCat
 
UNC**** has already gotten away with a lot. The NCAA never looked into "Wheels for Heels", forgiven parking tickets, fraudulent diagnoses of learning disability, and many other violations. I expect some weasel words from the NCAA about not really being violations and letting them off easy while vowing to "close the loopholes so that it never happens again."
 
uk8unc5 Tonight I attended a church picnic...and talked with 3 buddies who are die-hard Heels. So I asked them:
1- What are you expecting?
"Nothing...because we did nothing wrong."

2- The evidence from your own report and NCAA investigation says you DID do something wrong.
"Every school has cake classes. There's nothing wrong with that."

3- So when the NCAA drops the hammer on your program, will you accept that as justice and admit you did something wrong?
"If that happens (and it won't), it's only because everyone hates UNC. We never get a break."

I don't think I would go to a church picnic with people that are fake.. If they are low enough to stand up for cheating, what else would they do? I could never trust them and definitely never want them for friends. Back to that last statement of one of these liars. UNC never get's a break, looks like they have been cheating for over 50 years.
What a bunch of idiots these guy's are!
Thanks for posting, although I and many others already knew how most of their fans felt..

GBB
 
I watched the 81-82 UK/unc game this weekend, and got freshly pissed just knowing now that they were more than likely (very high probability in my mind) cheating like dogs even back then.
 
It is all about saving the pristine MYTH of Dean E. Smith and the Carolina Way. Neither the NCAA or North Carolina want to recognize that Smith was the architect of greatest cheating scandel and structure of all time, and that "the Carolina Way" was the propaganda machine to spin all into believing it was all so pure. All three banners are frauds. All three need to come down and all the victories during that time. All ACC and NCAA championships in all sports and men's and women's where bogus classes were taken and degrees given along with all the improper benefits that they are not even looking at like Wheels for Heels, etc.
 
Tonight I attended a church picnic...and talked with 3 buddies who are die-hard Heels. So I asked them:
1- What are you expecting?
"Nothing...because we did nothing wrong."

2- The evidence from your own report and NCAA investigation says you DID do something wrong.
"Every school has cake classes. There's nothing wrong with that."

3- So when the NCAA drops the hammer on your program, will you accept that as justice and admit you did something wrong?
"If that happens (and it won't), it's only because everyone hates UNC. We never get a break."

On the flip side, we have lost nearly all of the UNC fans from this forum. They could not deal with the fact that they blatantly cheated and Dean Smyth was the architect behind the scandal. Posters like RevHeels called us liars and then ran when presented with the truth.

They may proclaim their virtue at a picnic in North Carolina but they know their program is a fraud. They just chose to live in complete denial and delusion. They feel "okay" among themselves but they are scared to venture over here and be presented with basic facts. That scares the heck out of them.
 
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