After hearing, UNC awaits NCAA ruling in academic case

[downw/ball-lineD]

I certainly respect the member's of the forum who talk about "Well, UNC will never get to live this down.........or UNC has permanently lost the right to say "Carolina Way"..........etc

IMO, that isn't close to enough! Not even close! If there is any justice on this earth, UNC better get hammered. Not just for the cheating, but for everything they have done since the cheating. Plus, all of the other cheating thaT WAS NEVER INVESTIGATED! The 2017 title was total BS. What a gift. At least 2 title should be vacated---if not 3. All the wins, titles etc. erased from history. Anything short is a miscarriage of justice on a grand scale, IMHO

 

[gossie21]

it takes months and months to deliberate. they need more time than congress.

each step of this process has taken years. it's like insurance companies earning more than a settlement costs on the interest built over the stalling process. the ncaa sucks at its job. i still can't believe roy williams coached another four years after the wanstein report was released. unc played silent and has no shame and would sell its credentials for a final four appearance. the ncaa is a bureaucratic pillsbury doughboy that only cares about money and could rationalize murder if it increased their ratings or protects their marshmallow image.

You must not have any idea how a judicial (or quasi judicial) panel reaches a decision. They don't just walk into a conference room, have everyone agree on the result, and then sit down and start typing out a decision. The panel may be sharply divided on what to do. Or they may just have a principal disagreement on some minor points. At any rate someone is tasked with drafting the "order" which will be circulated, discussed, and continually revised this process can take several months. I have seen some appellate courts take up to 15 months to issue a decision.

While we sit here and think the issue is cut and dry and UNC should receive the death penalty and forfeit all accomplishments and bread company titles from the beginning of time, the issue may not be as simple based on NCAA regulations and what facts the COI is able to clearly establish.

 

[hotelblue]

You must not have any idea how a judicial (or quasi judicial) panel reaches a decision. They don't just walk into a conference room, have everyone agree on the result, and then sit down and start typing out a decision. The panel may be sharply divided on what to do. Or they may just have a principal disagreement on some minor points. At any rate someone is tasked with drafting the "order" which will be circulated, discussed, and continually revised this process can take several months. I have seen some appellate courts take up to 15 months to issue a decision.

While we sit here and think the issue is cut and dry and UNC should receive the death penalty and forfeit all accomplishments and bread company titles from the beginning of time, the issue may not be as simple based on NCAA regulations and what facts the COI is able to clearly establish.

thanks for the rundown in law. care to explain 7 years? because that's how long it took. and the ncaa is a company. where was the deliberation with penn state? took about three minutes.

 

[gossie21]

thanks for the rundown in law. care to explain 7 years? because that's how long it took. and the ncaa is a company. where was the deliberation with penn state? took about three minutes.

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/article73760402.html

I don't know about 10 years, but the above link is a pretty good rundown of how we got to where we are. As for the delays, the NCAA as an organization has established their form of due process where they notify schools of an intended inquiry, notice of allegations, and allow for the school to respond and each step of the way. UNC very clearly has manipulated the process to make it drag out in hopes of wearing down the NCAA and garnering public support. It certainly is frustrating, but I don't know what can be done about that.

 

[preacherfan]

While we sit here and think the issue is cut and dry and UNC should receive the death penalty and forfeit all accomplishments and bread company titles from the beginning of time, the issue may not be as simple based on NCAA regulations and what facts the COI is able to clearly establish.

Gossie, aren't you being a bit idealistic on this point. The NCAA seems to sit down and says, "Okay let's just make a decision based on how we feel about this situation." The reason I say that is because the NCAA past decisions have often been based on some kind of new interpretation of the rules that was made up for this particular case. Even Emmert says that the NCAA is free to rule how they choose regardless of precedent.

If we go back and read the NCAA's explanation of why Memphis was punished and Duke was not punished, it makes the head spin. Strict liability is something that the NCAA may use when it is convenient. And btw, the PSU case is so far off the scale that I don't even know what to say other than the NCAA makes up their own rules as they go. For Calvin and Hobbes fans, this is Calvin Ball.

 

[gossie21]

Gossie, aren't you being a bit idealistic on this point. The NCAA seems to sit down and says, "Okay let's just make a decision based on how we feel about this situation." The reason I say that is because the NCAA past decisions have often been based on some kind of new interpretation of the rules that was made up for this particular case. Even Emmert says that the NCAA is free to rule how they choose regardless of precedent.

If we go back and read the NCAA's explanation of why Memphis was punished and Duke was not punished, it makes the head spin. Strict liability is something that the NCAA may use when it is convenient. And btw, the PSU case is so far off the scale that I don't even know what to say other than the NCAA makes up their own rules as they go. For Calvin and Hobbes fans, this is Calvin Ball.

Yes. I am admittedly being idealistic. When we read the final product it looks like the NCAA shoots from the hip on most of their decisions. But we don't really know what the process was like to reach that decision.

 

[hotelblue]

I certainly respect the member's of the forum who talk about "Well, UNC will never get to live this down.........or UNC has permanently lost the right to say "Carolina Way"..........etc

IMO, that isn't close to enough! Not even close! If there is any justice on this earth, UNC better get hammered. Not just for the cheating, but for everything they have done since the cheating. Plus, all of the other cheating thaT WAS NEVER INVESTIGATED! The 2017 title was total BS. What a gift. At least 2 title should be vacated---if not 3. All the wins, titles etc. erased from history. Anything short is a miscarriage of justice on a grand scale, IMHO

3 if not 4 imo.

 

[uky8unc5]

On the flip side, we have lost nearly all of the UNC fans from this forum. They could not deal with the fact that they blatantly cheated and Dean Smyth was the architect behind the scandal. Posters like RevHeels called us liars and then ran when presented with the truth.

They may proclaim their virtue at a picnic in North Carolina but they know their program is a fraud. They just chose to live in complete denial and delusion. They feel "okay" among themselves but they are scared to venture over here and be presented with basic facts. That scares the heck out of them.

Agree. But one insight:
Their denial/delusion is because their Coach/School has fed them lies.
...They WANT to believe that EVERYONE is doing the same thing.
...They WANT to believe IT WAS ISOLATED to 2 rogue employees who had zero to do with athletics.
...No advantage gained. No penalties imposed. Innocent.

It's like a Cult who mindlessly drinks the Koolaid. When the gavel falls, they'll go to their grave believing the Lies.

 

[the stat man]

In the eclipse I have just witnessed something I will never see again in my life time! That's about the same time fame I think were looking at before those cheating SOB's at UNCHEAT , get what they truly deserve !!

 

[Ky grandpa]

In the eclipse I have just witnessed something I will never see again in my life time! That's about the same time fame I think were looking at before those cheating SOB's at UNCHEAT , get what they truly deserve !!

So you are saying 99 years??? What the ....... is going on in this world. How the guilty are set free and the innocent are sent to justice by fake laws and media.......

GBB

 

[ManitouDan]

I read that timeline link , felt like I needed a bath after finished .

 

[uky8unc5]

In the eclipse I have just witnessed something I will never see again in my life time! That's about the same time fame I think were looking at before those cheating SOB's at UNCHEAT , get what they truly deserve !!

I gave you a 'like'....but I think you'll be proven wrong. I really believe the Hammer will hit Chapel Hell. The NCAA tipped that earlier this year when they added-back to the charges:
...lack of institutional control
...fake classes WERE a benefit to keep players eligible
...added basketball to the charges

 

[HICATFAN]

I gave you a 'like'....but I think you'll be proven wrong. I really believe the Hammer will hit Chapel Hell. The NCAA tipped that earlier this year when they added-back to the charges:
...lack of institutional control
...fake classes WERE a benefit to keep players eligible
...added basketball to the charges

I hope they get slammed....all the way back .....

AlohaCat

 

[BBUK]

All I want to know is where has Tickle me Elmo been hiding? After all his epic rants you'd figure he'd be here instructing RR's on what was really going on and that..we...were totally missing and had no clue....to the "truth"...

 

[uky8unc5]

All I want to know is where is Tickle me Elmo been hiding? After all his epic rants you'd figure he'd be here instructing RR's on what was really going on and that..we...were totally missing and had no clue....to the "truth"...

Courage and Integrity aren't a long-suit in Chapel Hell.

 

[kybassfan]

All I want to know is where is Tickle me Elmo been hiding? After all his epic rants you'd figure he'd be here instructing RR's on what was really going on and that..we...were totally missing and had no clue....to the "truth"...

Swervy Perv or whatever his name was has been MIA too. Probably the same guy.

 

[hotelblue]

Yes. I am admittedly being idealistic. When we read the final product it looks like the NCAA shoots from the hip on most of their decisions. But we don't really know what the process was like to reach that decision.

there is some direct enforcement/oversight coming from somewhere in that organization besides these committees and panels. the few hundred million penalty on penn state says so. it was a unique situation but so is unc's (which is also much more in their jurisdiction). it's obvious the ncaa is as much about due process as it is about being a non-profit organization. they do what they want according to an agenda (money). their agenda with unc has clearly been reluctance.

 

[preacherfan]

there is some direct enforcement/oversight coming from somewhere in that organization besides these committees and panels. the few hundred million penalty on penn state says so. it was a unique situation but so is unc's (which is also much more in their jurisdiction). it's obvious the ncaa is as much about due process as it is about being a non-profit organization. they do what they want according to an agenda (money). their agenda with unc has clearly been reluctance.

To add to that, we need to remember that the very first NCAA investigator who arrived on campus was a UNC grad which is a CLEAR violation of NCAA rules. We have never been given an explanation for what he was doing there.

Then, UNC is allowed to investigate itself even though UNC made it clear publicly that they were not interested in finding wrongdoing. That is why the investigations were so limited in scope. UNC said we are focused on fixing the problems not uncovering who did what.

So, the NCAA CLEARLY broke its own policies and rules and allowed UNC to basically conduct a coverup. I can't see it any other way.

 

[the stat man]

I gave you a 'like'....but I think you'll be proven wrong. I really believe the Hammer will hit Chapel Hell. The NCAA tipped that earlier this year when they added-back to the charges:
...lack of institutional control
...fake classes WERE a benefit to keep players eligible
...added basketball to the charges

Brother I returned the like , and I hope to hell I am dead wrong !!!

 

[westerncat]

What happen to all the SPORTS talk ?

 

[the stat man]

Please can we get back to bashing those cheating SOB's from Chapel Hill !!

 

[HICATFAN]

Please can we get back to bashing those cheating SOB's from Chapel Hill !!

YES !!!!

AlohaCat

 

[HICATFAN]

Anyone got a guess how long it will take for the NCAA to lower the hammer on UNCheat???

AlohaCat

 

[Catsgloves1]

Anyone got a guess how long it will take for the NCAA to lower the hammer on UNCheat???

AlohaCat

They aren't going to. Same as ul.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Anyone got a guess how long it will take for the NCAA to lower the hammer on UNCheat???

AlohaCat

7-11 weeks

 

[uky8unc5]

Anyone got a guess how long it will take for the NCAA to lower the hammer on UNCheat??? AlohaCat

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/unc-now/article168028432.html

The Raleigh News Observer (who has been on top of this) said this (last week)...

"The only certainty, now, is that it will take a while before there is a ruling.

When UNC appeared before the infractions committee in 2011 amid a separate NCAA investigation into its football program, it took the committee 136 days to issue its ruling.

If this case follows the same timeline, there could be resolution by late December. UNC will then have an opportunity to appeal the ruling, if it desires. Bubba Cunningham, the university athletic director, has said the UNC is prepared to “exhaust” all of its options to defend itself."

 

[HICATFAN]

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/unc-now/article168028432.html

The Raleigh News Observer (who has been on top of this) said this (last week)...

"The only certainty, now, is that it will take a while before there is a ruling.

When UNC appeared before the infractions committee in 2011 amid a separate NCAA investigation into its football program, it took the committee 136 days to issue its ruling.

If this case follows the same timeline, there could be resolution by late December. UNC will then have an opportunity to appeal the ruling, if it desires. Bubba Cunningham, the university athletic director, has said the UNC is prepared to “exhaust” all of its options to defend itself."

Mahalo uky8unc5... given the seriousness of the ruling- wouldn't a year be possible? Maybe with UNCheats appeal?

AlohaCat

 

[gossie21]

Politics, folks. Am I right?

Mahalo uky8unc5... given the seriousness of the ruling- wouldn't a year be possible? Maybe with UNCheats appeal?

AlohaCat

If you include the inevitable appeal, then a full year is entirely likely. It's weird that the NCAA told UofL to expect a decision in 8 weeks, and then released their decision in exactly 8 weeks. But after meeting with UNC they didn't indicate a likely timeline. Perhaps the COI knew ahead of time what they were going to do with UofL, and maybe there is some division on what to do with UNC. Just speculating, but I do find it odd that one school was given a timeline and the other was not.

 

[gossie21]

I didn't really want to start a whole new thread on this, but CBS Sports did one of their candid coach pieces were they interviewed coaches anonymously to see what they thought about the UofL and UNC scandals. They come down pretty heavily on Pitino, and are a bit more divided on UNC.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-b...ncaa-take-titles-away-from-unc-or-louisville/

 

[bigbluelou]

This is what I envision when I think of how the NCAA is dealing with UNC*** and Uavel.

• Uavel is catcher 1
• NCAA is thrower 1 and catcher 2
• UNC*** is thrower 2

 

[railroadkat_1]

Like everyone else I'm tired of the Crap by UNC! It's been awhile but I remember one Lady saying one of the basketball players was reading at a third grade level. Now how does that kind of player get past the college entrance exams the ACT and the SAT? She also showed an alleged term paper for African American Studies that was at the most three sentences long. His grade was an A-.
On another note Scott Mayes (Indiana) son was.. Shawn I think He went back to Chapel Hill and finished majoring in African American studies after he couldn't make It in the NBA. The Carolina Way. Hammer Time!!!

 

[HICATFAN]

Politics, folks. Am I right?

If you include the inevitable appeal, then a full year is entirely likely. It's weird that the NCAA told UofL to expect a decision in 8 weeks, and then released their decision in exactly 8 weeks. But after meeting with UNC they didn't indicate a likely timeline. Perhaps the COI knew ahead of time what they were going to do with UofL, and maybe there is some division on what to do with UNC. Just speculating, but I do find it odd that one school was given a timeline and the other was not.

Agree! Both schools committed serious - death penalty level activities, i.e., recruiting and academic atrocities...is it possible that Loserville's was "more curren" than was UNCheats (years of cheating) and that this could be the reason for the more "open ended" response timeframe?

Just a thought...

AlohaCat

 

[uky8unc5]

Mahalo uky8unc5... given the seriousness of the ruling- wouldn't a year be possible? Maybe with UNCheats appeal? AlohaCat

Delay is their only defense. They keep hoping senility sets in with the Old Farts at NCAA headquarters.