Adolph Rupp is the reason

[RunninRichie]

No I don’t think the banners should come down. lol. But again, you are worried about banners and the name of an arena. The question I’m asking is why Kentucky integrated 23 years after IU, 7 years after Louisville and 3 years after Vandy. And I’m not really talking to people like you who just want to politicize, but people like @JPScott who have credibility on the topic and historical understanding of the bigger picture. Last time I’ll respond to you ITT unless you can show you actually want to discuss.

this has already been explained rupp wanted black players in the 50s but the university felt pressure from the racist boys club of the deeper south SEC schools to keep the conference white, Rupp was even gonna change conferences to get black players but the university denied his request. You seem like a troll or a SJW definitely not a true blue UK fan.

 

[RunninRichie]

I think the reason for that is that the criticism of segregation from the north and other regions was much bigger than just basketball but all of the segregation in the south. Kentucky’s lack of segregation can at least be partially blamed on its affiliation with the SEC, and at the end of the day, it goes with out saying that the general “south” has little excuse for waiting so long to desegregate.

What Kentucky does bear responsibility for is going with the flow on the issue. I think ideally Kentucky would’ve forced the issue, threatened to leave SEC or possibly even boycott until changes were made. That to me is something we could be proud of in 2020 and something that would be in line with an otherwise traditionally excellent program.

We did.....

 

[JPScott]

I think the reason for that is that the criticism of segregation from the north and other regions was much bigger than just basketball but all of the segregation in the south. Kentucky’s lack of segregation can at least be partially blamed on its affiliation with the SEC, and at the end of the day, it goes with out saying that the general “south” has little excuse for waiting so long to desegregate.

True, but then it begs the question why does it seem like the media fixates on one of the few coaches who actually was actively recruiting black players during the 1960's, and seemingly trying to lay the blame at his feet?

One would think that there's plenty of blame to spread around, if that's the intention. But the fact that Rupp is singled out suggests that there's another agenda taking place.

What Kentucky does bear responsibility for is going with the flow on the issue. I think ideally Kentucky would’ve forced the issue, threatened to leave SEC or possibly even boycott until changes were made. That to me is something we could be proud of in 2020 and something that would be in line with an otherwise traditionally excellent program.

Again, I think you're being unfair by stating that UK was 'going with the flow' on the issue. That's not a valid criticism as far as I'm concerned, given that they were indeed pushing the envelope. Granted it may not have been as hard or as fast as critics would have wished, but they were.

Rupp was dropping hints in the media about UK integrating its program from the early 1950's. UK President Frank Dickey was bringing the issue up in annual SEC meetings in the early 1960s and formally polled league members how they would respond to UK integrating its sports program in 1963, and then following it up with a formal declaration that their athletic programs were open to all races.

As far as UK dropping out of the conference, you're right that would have been a strong statement at the time. And that's been addressed in various interviews over the years. Frank Dickey essentially said that while it's a moral obligation to be open to all races, it was also a moral obligation to the taxpayers of the state of Kentucky to keep the University solvent in order to pay off bonds for things like UK's Memorial Coliseum etc. Leaving the conference was risky and could have resulted in a huge financial hit to the school. Rupp has commented that in his position as coach he didn't see it as his place or his authority to force UK to leave the conference.

In hindsight, maybe that's what they should have done, and if they had then their perception among people of today would likely be completely different. But I think it's unrealistic to expect that they should have taken what at the time was considered a drastic and risky step.

 

[bkingUK]

True, but then it begs the question why does it seem like the media fixates on one of the few coaches who actually was actively recruiting black players during the 1960's, and seemingly trying to lay the blame at his feet?

One would think that there's plenty of blame to spread around, if that's the intention. But the fact that Rupp is singled out suggests that there's another agenda taking place.




Again, I think you're being unfair by stating that UK was 'going with the flow' on the issue. That's not a valid criticism as far as I'm concerned, given that they were indeed pushing the envelope. Granted it may not have been as hard or as fast as critics would have wished, but they were.

Rupp was dropping hints in the media about UK integrating its program from the early 1950's. UK President Frank Dickey was bringing the issue up in annual SEC meetings in the early 1960s and formally polled league members how they would respond to UK integrating its sports program in 1963, and then following it up with a formal declaration that their athletic programs were open to all races.

As far as UK dropping out of the conference, you're right that would have been a strong statement at the time. And that's been addressed in various interviews over the years. Frank Dickey essentially said that while it's a moral obligation to be open to all races, it was also a moral obligation to the taxpayers of the state of Kentucky to keep the University solvent in order to pay off bonds for things like UK's Memorial Coliseum etc. Leaving the conference was risky and could have resulted in a huge financial hit to the school. Rupp has commented that in his position as coach he didn't see it as his place or his authority to force UK to leave the conference.

In hindsight, maybe that's what they should have done, and if they had then their perception among people of today would likely be completely different. But I think it's unrealistic to expect that they should have taken what at the time was considered a drastic and risky step.

Good stuff.

 

[cdbearde]

True, but then it begs the question why does it seem like the media fixates on one of the few coaches who actually was actively recruiting black players during the 1960's, and seemingly trying to lay the blame at his feet?

One would think that there's plenty of blame to spread around, if that's the intention. But the fact that Rupp is singled out suggests that there's another agenda taking place.




Again, I think you're being unfair by stating that UK was 'going with the flow' on the issue. That's not a valid criticism as far as I'm concerned, given that they were indeed pushing the envelope. Granted it may not have been as hard or as fast as critics would have wished, but they were.

Rupp was dropping hints in the media about UK integrating its program from the early 1950's. UK President Frank Dickey was bringing the issue up in annual SEC meetings in the early 1960s and formally polled league members how they would respond to UK integrating its sports program in 1963, and then following it up with a formal declaration that their athletic programs were open to all races.

As far as UK dropping out of the conference, you're right that would have been a strong statement at the time. And that's been addressed in various interviews over the years. Frank Dickey essentially said that while it's a moral obligation to be open to all races, it was also a moral obligation to the taxpayers of the state of Kentucky to keep the University solvent in order to pay off bonds for things like UK's Memorial Coliseum etc. Leaving the conference was risky and could have resulted in a huge financial hit to the school. Rupp has commented that in his position as coach he didn't see it as his place or his authority to force UK to leave the conference.

In hindsight, maybe that's what they should have done, and if they had then their perception among people of today would likely be completely different. But I think it's unrealistic to expect that they should have taken what at the time was considered a drastic and risky step.

Thank you very much for bringing your hard work and hours of researching to this board, I can't tell you enough how much that I appreciate all your effort and time.

 

[CatGotMyTongue]

........For the season.

waited for this one

 

[CatGotMyTongue]

JP...as a side note, "certain " folks tend to over this...
https://images.app.goo.gl/Hvoqf6yP2aPMxxSp9...one of my buddies brought a young black youth minister from Fla(gator) to a game and when l walked him around the stadium and showed him the monument he had no idea that UK integrated th SEC in FB.

Unfortunately a lot of the b-ball only fans miss this. This was HUGE because it was actually SEC FOOTBALL

 

[Dore95]

Rupp integrated UK basketball by signing Tom Payne and doing his best to make a star out of him. This required incredible courage from Payne, and generational conviction from Rupp. If anyone thinks Rupp wasn't visionary for his times, their judgment is being clouded by identity politics.

Many critics are unfair to Rupp, but it is also ludicrous to claim he was forward thinking or "visionary" on race. There is no getting around the quote from the Harry Lancaster book. And this is also not ancient history. Whether Rupp was "racist" is something that has been discussed since he was coaching, and certainly in the AA community there were many people in the 60's and 70's who believed that he was. So it's not like this is something that was just dredged up many years after the fact.

 

[JPScott]

Many critics are unfair to Rupp, but it is also ludicrous to claim he was forward thinking or "visionary" on race. There is no getting around the quote from the Harry Lancaster book. And this is also not ancient history. Whether Rupp was "racist" is something that has been discussed since he was coaching, and certainly in the AA community there were many people in the 60's and 70's who believed that he was. So it's not like this is something that was just dredged up many years after the fact.

The Harry Lancaster quote is damning, but only if you don't know the context. Granted, the language was inapprorpriate during any era, but people who don't know tend to take the quote as evidence that Rupp was against recruiting black players. The truth is that during the time in question Rupp was already recruiting black players. The real issue was over whether UK should take token players or not.

John Oswald (who was UK President at the time) was more interested in saying that UK was integrated than in caring who it was or making many efforts himself to assist in recruiting [Oswald claims he helped early on, such as saying he visited Wes Unseld (a claim I still haven't been able to verify) but by his own admission he quickly tired of actively help recruit, even though Rupp specifically asked him to. Oswald also refused to relax UK's academic standards to help get some players admitted.]

Rupp was against tokenism, and whle I think people can debate both sides, I frankly agree with him on that. Rupp knew that having a token black player was a no-win situation. For one thing he would be the target on road games (during a time when it wasn't unusual for opposing fans to throw coins and other objects at players on the bench) and would be scrutinized immensely by fans and non-fans alike. Those who were against him signing a black player would be critical because he wasn't good enough to play major minutes, while those who were supportive would exert pressure to play him more even if he didn't deserve it. For a coach like Rupp, there's nothing worse in his mind than having people tell him who he should be playing.

Rupp at least early on was trying to follow the advice of Branch Rickey modeled after the Jackie Robinson example where they were trying to find a black player who they knew could represent the program well not only on the court but off the court and in the classroom. Unfortunately it didn't work out as they had hoped but that was clearly the plan early on.

 

[Dore95]

The Harry Lancaster quote is damning regardless of context.

“Harry, that son of a bitch is ordering me to get some n----- in here,” Lancaster said Rupp told him after the meeting with Oswald. “What am I going to do? He’s the boss.”

 

[Dore95]

Also, just to address the issue of "tokenism". There were many black players in the state of KY in the 60s who were good enough to play at UK, and in many cases better than the stars that UK had during that period. Unseld and Beard were two examples and youv'e repeatedly noted how Rupp recruited them. But then there was Haskins, the Smith brothers, Glover, McDaniels, etc. I mean, in 1971 WKU started 5 black players and beat UK in the tournament.

 

[ABlockalypseBrow]

@JPScott Since I can't find the the other thread, I wanted to ask you what you thought of this refutation of the Deford quote on https://www.coachrupp.com/myth-vs-fact (some have said this is hosted by Rupp's family, if so do they have inside knowledge we have not previously heard?). Have you heard anywhere that Deford claimed to have hid in a locker or anyone dispute his presence? Or that Rupp didn't allow visitors? You say on your own page on the matter that he was allowed into the locker room...

Deford was not in the locker room of that game. The players and coaches in that locker room have all said that there was no sportswriter in the locker room at halftime. Later, when Deford was confronted with this fact, Deford changed his story and said he had snuck into the locker room and hid in a locker. Accounts from players and coaches in the room all agree that the lockers were too small to conceal the six foot four-inch Deford. It was a well-known fact that Coach Rupp didn’t allow any visitors in the locker room at halftime and he famously sometimes denied entry to the University president.

 

[ABlockalypseBrow]

@JPScott @2Adulterers The website https://www.coachrupp.com/myth-vs-fact also makes the claim that Coach Rupp quit drinking sometime in the late 1960s due to his diabetes. Is this a true claim as you know it?

I only ask as I can't find any sources online to support it, but you may know personally or have heard better.

"Adolph Rupp had diabetes and lost part of his foot to the disease. He had quit drinking by the late 1960s."

 

[JPScott]

Also, just to address the issue of "tokenism". There were many black players in the state of KY in the 60s who were good enough to play at UK, and in many cases better than the stars that UK had during that period. Unseld and Beard were two examples and youv'e repeatedly noted how Rupp recruited them. But then there was Haskins, the Smith brothers, Glover, McDaniels, etc. I mean, in 1971 WKU started 5 black players and beat UK in the tournament.

You'll have to go through a case by case basis. Clem Haskins unfortunately signed with Louisville a few months before UK officially allowed Rupp to recruit black players in late Spring 1963. Rupp actually told Haskins he wanted to recruit him, and there's no doubt in my mind he would have if he had the opportunity.

Dwight Smith was in the same class as Haskins. Greg Smith I assume wasn't an option as he likely wanted to play with his older brother at Western.

Clarence Glover I don't know that UK recruited him. I don't know what his status was but it's possible he wasn't able to meet UK's academic requirements, but that is just a guess. The fact is that many of the players who ended up at Western or Eastern and other schools etc. were not able to meet UK's academic requirements. As Rupp said about not just black players but white players as well: "A lot of these kids are turned down by the Registrar, not by us."

Jim McDaniels UK recruited.

 

[2Adulterers]

@JPScott @2Adulterers The website coachrupp dot com also makes the claim that Coach Rupp quit drinking sometime in the late 1960s due to his diabetes. Is this a true claim as you know it?

I only ask as I can't find any sources online to support it, but you may know personally or have heard better.

"Adolph Rupp had diabetes and lost part of his foot to the disease. He had quit drinking by the late 1960s."

Yes he did after losing a portion of his foot

 

[JPScott]

@JPScott Since they deleted the other thread, I wanted to ask you what you thought of this refutation of the Deford quote on coachrupp dot com (some have said this is hosted by Rupp's family, if so do they have inside knowledge we have not previously heard?). Have you heard anywhere that Deford claimed to have hid in a locker or anyone dispute his presence? Or that Rupp didn't allow visitors? You say on your own page on the matter that he was allowed into the locker room...

Deford was not in the locker room of that game. The players and coaches in that locker room have all said that there was no sportswriter in the locker room at halftime. Later, when Deford was confronted with this fact, Deford changed his story and said he had snuck into the locker room and hid in a locker. Accounts from players and coaches in the room all agree that the lockers were too small to conceal the six foot four-inch Deford. It was a well-known fact that Coach Rupp didn’t allow any visitors in the locker room at halftime and he famously sometimes denied entry to the University president.

I talked about Deford's claim on my webpage.

I do know Deford was at the 1966 Final Four and championship game and covered it for Sports Illustrated, although he didn't even hint about any issue during halftime (or any other time) in the article he wrote. Whether he was in the lockerroom or not during halftime, I don't know for a fact one way or the other. I assume he probably was if he says he was.

I hadn't heard anything about him sneaking in and hiding in a locker, you'll have to provide the reference for that claim.

On my page I was critical of Deford for not mentioning this until 30 years after the fact, and it all is second hand (i.e. it's what others wrote about what Deford told them, Deford himself to my knowledge never actually sat down and wrote a first-hand account of what he claims happened.) If it was really a concerning issue to Deford, he had plenty of time and opportunity to bring it up with Rupp directly in the 10+ years after the game when Rupp was still alive, but Deford didn't do anything like that.

Note that I tried to contact Deford a few times in the late 90's with questions about this incident but he never responded. I've been told by others that Deford tried to distance himself from the claim, but again I don't have first-hand knowledge one way or another.

 

[ABlockalypseBrow]

The Harry Lancaster quote is damning regardless of context.

“Harry, that son of a bitch is ordering me to get some n----- in here,” Lancaster said Rupp told him after the meeting with Oswald. “What am I going to do? He’s the boss.”

Here's my thoughts on that quote. Harry Lancaster was Rupp's longtime assistant, who then was promoted to his boss. There was apparently then a falling out in their relationship, I've heard it said they didn't talk. Lancaster, as Athletic Director, was in charge when Rupp was forced out as the coach of UK. Rupp died in 1977, that book came out in 1979. A quote like that is the kind of thing that helps sell books. As Jon Scott documents quite well, the quote disagrees very strongly with every other action or statement Rupp ever made on the matter of his willingness to integrate.

So Rupp's close friend/employee became boss who “fired” him and not on good terms (I'll stop short of enemy), published a potentially lucrative and conveniently irrefutable quote 2 years after his death that disagreed with all other knowledge on the matter.

There's certainly a lot to question given the background behind that quote. I wouldn't call Lancaster a liar, but I also wouldn't use it to damn a man who never had a chance to refute it. Its possible Lancaster's memory of the quote was poor, or that a ghostwriter/publisher misquoted or embellished Lancaster's account.

 

[ABlockalypseBrow]

Yes he did after losing a portion of his foot

Thanks, good to know! That seems to make the supposed quote provided by Mr. Grinker very questionable.

I talked about Deford's claim on my webpage.

I do know Deford was at the 1966 Final Four and championship game and covered it for Sports Illustrated, although he didn't even hint about any issue during halftime (or any other time) in the article he wrote. Whether he was in the lockerroom or not during halftime, I don't know for a fact one way or the other. I assume he probably was if he says he was.

I hadn't heard anything about him sneaking in and hiding in a locker, you'll have to provide the reference for that claim.

On my page I was critical of Deford for not mentioning this until 30 years after the fact, and it all is second hand (i.e. it's what others wrote about what Deford told them, Deford himself to my knowledge never actually sat down and wrote a first-hand account of what he claims happened.) If it was really a concerning issue to Deford, he had plenty of time and opportunity to bring it up with Rupp directly in the 10+ years after the game when Rupp was still alive, but Deford didn't do anything like that.

Note that I tried to contact Deford a few times in the late 90's with questions about this incident but he never responded. I've been told by others that Deford tried to distance himself from the claim, but again I don't have first-hand knowledge one way or another.

Thanks. In case its not clear, I got that claim from: https://www.coachrupp.com/myth-vs-fact

 

[JPScott]

Thanks. In case its not clear, I got that claim from: https://www.coachrupp.com/myth-vs-fact

I know where you got the info, what I’m not clear about is from what original reference did Deford claim he was hiding in a locker.

The info I have seen circa late 90’s was that Deford claimed Rupp allowed him into the lockerrrom on the condition that he didn’t report on what he heard. I don’t know how unusual such an arrangement is.

 

[KyFaninNC]

@JPScott Since I can't find the the other thread, I wanted to ask you what you thought of this refutation of the Deford quote on https://www.coachrupp.com/myth-vs-fact (some have said this is hosted by Rupp's family, if so do they have inside knowledge we have not previously heard?). Have you heard anywhere that Deford claimed to have hid in a locker or anyone dispute his presence? Or that Rupp didn't allow visitors? You say on your own page on the matter that he was allowed into the locker room...

Deford was not in the locker room of that game. The players and coaches in that locker room have all said that there was no sportswriter in the locker room at halftime. Later, when Deford was confronted with this fact, Deford changed his story and said he had snuck into the locker room and hid in a locker. Accounts from players and coaches in the room all agree that the lockers were too small to conceal the six foot four-inch Deford. It was a well-known fact that Coach Rupp didn’t allow any visitors in the locker room at halftime and he famously sometimes denied entry to the University president.

.

 

[ABlockalypseBrow]

I know where you got the info, what I’m not clear about is from what original reference did Deford claim he was hiding in a locker.

The info I have seen circa late 90’s was that Deford claimed Rupp allowed him into the lockerrrom on the condition that he didn’t report on what he heard. I don’t know how unusual such an arrangement is.

Neither am I. The website has a contact or comment option however, if you don’t want to ask them (it’s still not 100% clear to me whether the Rupp family runs that site) about it I can.

 

[JPScott]

Neither am I. The website has a contact or comment option however, if you don’t want to ask them (it’s still not 100% clear to me whether the Rupp family runs that site) about it I can.

I was planning on submitting a list of questions to the site so I can ask them about the source of that particular claim.

 

[Dore95]

You'll have to go through a case by case basis. Clem Haskins unfortunately signed with Louisville a few months before UK officially allowed Rupp to recruit black players in late Spring 1963. Rupp actually told Haskins he wanted to recruit him, and there's no doubt in my mind he would have if he had the opportunity.

Dwight Smith was in the same class as Haskins. Greg Smith I assume wasn't an option as he likely wanted to play with his older brother at Western.

Clarence Glover I don't know that UK recruited him. I don't know what his status was but it's possible he wasn't able to meet UK's academic requirements, but that is just a guess. The fact is that many of the players who ended up at Western or Eastern and other schools etc. were not able to meet UK's academic requirements. As Rupp said about not just black players but white players as well: "A lot of these kids are turned down by the Registrar, not by us."

Jim McDaniels UK recruited.

You may be right about Glover and academic problems. But the fact remains that that 1971 Western team had 5 black starters. I do think it is illustrative to think about that, and the fact that they beat UK that year in the tournament. There is no question that Rupp recruited black players in the 60's - you've thoroughly documented that on your site. But many people have also claimed that the recruiting attempts were tepid. IMO, it is tough to use a "he tried" defense when (lesser) schools in UK's backyard successfully recruited numerous black players during the same period. And the "academics" excuse, IMO, was also used as a crutch too often. As in, "we couldn't take him because he was not smart enough to play here".

Bottom line, my whole point in posting this stuff is just to counter the argument that someone made on this thread that Rupp was a "visionary" on race.

 

[SDC_99]

Why does he have to be a visionary in order to have his name not removed from the arena, in order to not be dishonored posthumously because someone needs to have their pound of flesh?

Why do you have to punish the UK program today, for what happened in the past, when nothing even really happened? Things could've always been better, that's an easy argument you can make for anything. Anything good, would've been better sooner, and you can't really punish the dead anyway for not being good enough for you. Your only accomplishment is to harm the program today, and that's who these people are and what motivates them by the way, be they ESPN journalists, rival fans, our own idiots on the Catpaw, whoever, it's self interest or it is malevolence.

It's not about anything else, that and the free dopamine you hit and ego stroke you get for feeling good about yourself without having done anything.

It makes far more sense to praise him or the university or whatever for leading the way in the SEC than it does for lagging behind the big 10 or other regional schools. It just seems like an obviously stupid argument to make, unless of course your actual goal is simply to harm the university today.

 

[JPScott]

You may be right about Glover and academic problems. But the fact remains that that 1971 Western team had 5 black starters. I do think it is illustrative to think about that, and the fact that they beat UK that year in the tournament. There is no question that Rupp recruited black players in the 60's - you've thoroughly documented that on your site. But many people have also claimed that the recruiting attempts were tepid. IMO, it is tough to use a "he tried" defense when (lesser) schools in UK's backyard successfully recruited numerous black players during the same period. And the "academics" excuse, IMO, was also used as a crutch too often. As in, "we couldn't take him because he was not smart enough to play here".

Bottom line, my whole point in posting this stuff is just to counter the argument that someone made on this thread that Rupp was a "visionary" on race.

It's just speculation on my part with respect to why UK seemlingly didn't recruit Glover. FYI, on my web page I include an excerpt from Clarence Glover talking about an all-star game that Rupp coached him in and the fact that Rupp recommended Glover to the Celtics so Rupp did hold him in high regard.

As far as Western having five black starters in 1971, at least according to this link, the fact that Clarence Glover, Jerome Perry and Jim Rose all ended up at Western was more a quirk of McDaniel's convincing them to come to WKU together. As mentioned, UK recruited Jim McDaniels and UK recruited Jerome Perry and Jim Rose as well. Again not sure about Clarence Glover. The other two Western starters were high school teammates at Glasgow, and both initially signed with Western but ended up going to a two-year junior college first: Jerry Dunn played at Vincennes and Rex Bailey played at Paducah Junior College, so presumably they didn't have the grades to get in at Western initially.

Not sure how any of this information directly impacts your point taking issue with the 'visionary' claim about Rupp?

Personally while I think the word "visionary" is a stretch, I do think that Rupp does indeed deserve some credit for being ahead of the curve in many ways, which his critics act like wasn't important (if they're not outright ignoring it altogether). For example, I invite you to look at any other college coach during that time period and see what they had to say about race as opposed to what Rupp was saying. I think you'll find that it's extremely difficult to locate many public statements one way or the other, even for coaches who were supposed 'trailblazers', and when you do, it's hard to say one is a racial trailblazer while the other is somehow supposed to represent the opposite.

 

[Whoppercat]

So Rupp's close friend/employee became boss who fired him and not on good terms

He fired him? It is my recollection that Rupp reached the MANDATORY retirement age for state and university employees. There were some who wanted an exception to be made for Rupp which did not happen. I seriously doubt that Harry Lancaster had the authority to grant such an exception. How is that being fired?

 

[chevyman 50]

Rupp was one of the great college BB coaches of all time and he was not a racist.

 

[ABlockalypseBrow]

He fired him? It is my recollection that Rupp reached the MANDATORY retirement age for state and university employees. There were some who wanted an exception to be made for Rupp which did not happen. I seriously doubt that Harry Lancaster had the authority to grant such an exception. How is that being fired?

Very true, but Rupp seemed to take it badly and he likely felt fired, my point being it probably hurt an already damaged relationship.

 

[Estil]

The Harry Lancaster quote is damning regardless of context.

“Harry, that son of a bitch is ordering me to get some n----- in here,” Lancaster said Rupp told him after the meeting with Oswald. “What am I going to do? He’s the boss.”

Yeah, what do you say in response to that?

 

[Estil]

Kentucky Basketball
The house that Adolph Rupp built!

Actually that sounds more like what you'd call Memorial Coliseum.

 

[Estil]

It’s not enough to say Rupp was merely a reflection of his time.

Yes please don't anyone here use that as a defense (especially those of you hoping to go to UK's College of Law someday). You might as well be saying "Rupp is guilty of racism"

 

[kybassfan]

OP baited the hell out of some of you.

 

[chevyman 50]

When Rupp retired Ky was a powerhouse other coaches have added some, but none has been as great as Rupp he is a legend.

 

[2Adulterers]

Like everyone, Adolph Rupp was a product of his generation. His generation was taught differently and did some things differently, as is the case with each successive generation.

Things change. Cavemen learned to cook meat over fires. There was a time when humans burned, quartered, and guillotined one another over simple differences. Countries learned to build navies and negotiate treaties. The Magna Carta was huge step forward for human rights. Invention of the telephone, electric lightbulb, refrigeration, and penicillin changed societies. In 1969, a man walked on the moon. The indisputable point is that humans of each generation cannot possibly anticipate or live by developments that occur in following generations. Apply whatever moral judgments you wish, but each of us already looks oldfashioned to our children.

Rupp integrated UK basketball by signing Tom Payne and doing his best to make a star out of him. This required incredible courage from Payne, and generational conviction from Rupp. If anyone thinks Rupp wasn't visionary for his times, their judgment is being clouded by identity politics.

Rupp retired 48 years ago. 48 years ago, Pan Am was the world's dominant international airline, Spain was ruled by Francisco Franco, China was ruled by Chairman Mao Zedong, Hong Kong was a British protectorate, the tallest building in the world was the Empire State Building, I-64 did not run all the way from Louisville to Lexington, there was no Cochran Hill tunnel, UK football was played at Stoll Field, and there was no such thing as cell phones, commercial solar power, the World Trade Center, microwave ovens, satellite TV, or the internet. It was a different time.

This is our basketball board. Adolph Rupp was one of the best basketball coaches who ever lived. He was very generous with charities, admired by his peers, and his honesty has never been in question. He developed hundreds of high school kids into successful young men. He deserves every honor he earned here. He wouldn't fit in the 21st century, but none of us would fit in the 22nd century either. It's time to stop eating our own.

He was the BEST basketball coach that ever lived
He had his faults arrogant opinionated stubborn I know I was around him the last 4 years at UK
He made me the person I am today
God Bless You Coach

 

[drcats2013]

For the teardrops on my guitar

 

[ruppcat]

Let's change the name of the SEC while we're at it. This was once a segregated conference. Why is noone crying about that?

Give'em time and a Biden regime and that may happen.

 

[ruppcat]

They did not maintain because of their fan base. Our fans are not complacent. They are involved and push coaches and the athletic department to maintain our basketball program at the highest level. Ask Tubby, Sutton or even Hall. There is eminse pressure to win here and the pressure comes from the fans. And our fans expect to have a winning program because of the success of one Adolf Rupp. Did Tubby ever have an elite eight team after he left here? Pitino and Calapari are both very successful coaches but neither was as successful at other schools as they were here. Fans expectations because of past success

ucla lost Sam Gilbert. End of "dynasty".

 

[Cowtown Cat]

Even my Wife knows that Rupp built Kentucky Basketball, and indeed, she recognizes as such. We appreciate everything the proceeding coaches did for the program: Hall, Pitino, Tubby and Cal. We don’t care much for Sutton and/or Gillespie in this household, though.

However, none of those more recent coaches did as much for Kentucky Basketball as Rupp did. It’s an absurd thought, to even think that they did. Do they deserve credit and recognition? Of course they do, and rightfully so.

Do they deserve credit and recognition to the extent of Rupp? Absolutely not, no way. Without Rupp, none of their accomplishments at Kentucky are even remotely possible. End of discussion IMO. Common sense in my book.

Hell, the man invented the fast break. He revolutionized the game. He was a man way ahead of his time, in a basketball sense. Coaches and players from all over the country should thank Adolph Rupp for what he did for the game, as a whole.

IMO, Rupp doesn’t get ENOUGH credit for what he did for the game of basketball. A hundred times the coach that that fake cheat was in Los Angeles. He was the media darling, Rupp was the opposite. Simple as that. Hmmm that sounds familiar.

EDIT: I’m positive I’ll get slammed by some social justice warriors here. I say, bring It. Best bring your A game, though.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

Like everyone, Adolph Rupp was a product of his generation. His generation was taught differently and did some things differently, as is the case with each successive generation.

Things change. Cavemen learned to cook meat over fires. There was a time when humans burned, quartered, and guillotined one another over simple differences. Countries learned to build navies and negotiate treaties. The Magna Carta was huge step forward for human rights. Invention of the telephone, electric lightbulb, refrigeration, and penicillin changed societies. In 1969, a man walked on the moon. The indisputable point is that humans of each generation cannot possibly anticipate or live by developments that occur in following generations. Apply whatever moral judgments you wish, but each of us already looks oldfashioned to our children.

Rupp integrated UK basketball by signing Tom Payne and doing his best to make a star out of him. This required incredible courage from Payne, and generational conviction from Rupp. If anyone thinks Rupp wasn't visionary for his times, their judgment is being clouded by identity politics.

Rupp retired 48 years ago. 48 years ago, Pan Am was the world's dominant international airline, Spain was ruled by Francisco Franco, China was ruled by Chairman Mao Zedong, Hong Kong was a British protectorate, the tallest building in the world was the Empire State Building, I-64 did not run all the way from Louisville to Lexington, there was no Cochran Hill tunnel, UK football was played at Stoll Field, and there was no such thing as cell phones, commercial solar power, the World Trade Center, microwave ovens, satellite TV, or the internet. It was a different time.

This is our basketball board. Adolph Rupp was one of the best basketball coaches who ever lived. He was very generous with charities, admired by his peers, and his honesty has never been in question. He developed hundreds of high school kids into successful young men. He deserves every honor he earned here. He wouldn't fit in the 21st century, but none of us would fit in the 22nd century either. It's time to stop eating our own.

Excellent post!

 

[Elliott Tim]

Did Rupp hire Cal?

This is a hair splitting post, as is the original post. Both are neither right or wrong.
Just fair assumptions.