A Year-By-Year Comparison Frank Beamer vs. Mark Stoops

[The-Hack]

We've made the comparison, so how do their first 9 seasons compare?

For brevities sake, after a full 9 seasons at Virginia Tech, Beamer was 51-49-2, and at the mid-point of his 9th season at UK, Mark Stoops is 55-51.

Beamer only had 11 regular season games, 12 with bowls. Stoops has 12 regular season games, 13 with a bowl, excepting 2020 with 10 regular season games, 11 with the bowl.

Beamer went 9-3 in his seventh season, having won a max of 6 games (twice) in his first six seasons.

Stoops went 10-3 in his sixth season.

It looks like Stoops will have 59-61 wins (absent a playoff appearance) by the end of his 9th season, and from 51 to 54 losses.

Their records are remarkably similar, though Stoops achieved his "break through" season a year ahead of Beamer. Stoops also had more clearly established linear progress his first 6 seasons, with six consecutive seasons without an increase in losses or a reduction in wins. Beamer's record his fifth year, before the 9 win season, was one of his worst: 2-8-1.

Sounds like Virginia Tech was more patient than Kentucky in retaining Beamer with a 2-8-1 record his sixth year at the school!!

 

[gossie21]

What was the competition level like for Beamer? I know he played in the Big East and then moved to the ACC. I don't recall the Big East being much of a power in football and certainly not to the level of what the SEC is today.

With that said, I really hope Stoops decides to make Kentucky his destination job, and build a legacy the way Beamer did at VaTech. Once he got the wheels pointed in the right direction he went to 23 strait bowl games. Won 10+ games 13 times.

 

[point1zero]

I enjoyed reading this. Thanks for posting!

 

[Old_Red]

What was the competition level like for Beamer? I know he played in the Big East and then moved to the ACC. I don't recall the Big East being much of a power in football and certainly not to the level of what the SEC is today.

With that said, I really hope Stoops decides to make Kentucky his destination job, and build a legacy the way Beamer did at VaTech. Once he got the wheels pointed in the right direction he went to 23 strait bowl games. Won 10+ games 13 times.

Interesting point. What Stoops has accomplished is more impressive than what Beamer did in his first 9 years but, going forward, it will be harder for him to get 10 win seasons than when Beamer did it because it is the SEC.

 

[maysvilleky]

What was the competition level like for Beamer? I know he played in the Big East and then moved to the ACC. I don't recall the Big East being much of a power in football and certainly not to the level of what the SEC is today.

With that said, I really hope Stoops decides to make Kentucky his destination job, and build a legacy the way Beamer did at VaTech. Once he got the wheels pointed in the right direction he went to 23 strait bowl games. Won 10+ games 13 times.

With expanded playoffs coming I think it will either cement Stoops here at UK or hasten him out.

I can see UK getting to the point they will be a legitimate contender to make a 12 team playoff every 2-3 years. If that satisfies Stoops then I see him being permanent. If he’s itchy then he could use that as a reason to move on to a higher profile place.

 

[gossie21]

With expanded playoffs coming I think it will either cement Stoops here at UK or hasten him out.

I can see UK getting to the point they will be a legitimate contender to make a 12 team playoff every 2-3 years. If that satisfies Stoops then I see him being permanent. If he’s itchy then he could use that as a reason to move on to a higher profile place.

I don't know that Stoops is itchy to move on. But I do think there could be very specific situations that he would consider. Obviously, in the unlikely event Ohio State or Alabama come calling it would be difficult to keep him here. I would also be concerned if Iowa or Penn State came after him.

Short of that, he would have to walk away from the program that he built from the basement up, and an administration that has been very patient and responsive to his needs.

 

[UKSanders]

I don't know that Stoops is itchy to move on. But I do think there could be very specific situations that he would consider. Obviously, in the unlikely event Ohio State or Alabama come calling it would be difficult to keep him here. I would also be concerned if Iowa or Penn State came after him.

Short of that, he would have to walk away from the program that he built from the basement up, and an administration that has been very patient and responsive to his needs.

I know he is an Iowa alumn, but why does everyone think that is a better job than UK at this point?

Will he get more support from that administration than UK? I cannot imagine he would

Is it easier to get to a NYD6 bowl or the CFP at Iowa than UK? Either you go thru WISC/OSU/ PSU/ MICH, or you go thru UF/UGA…seems like a wash

Recruiting? Does Iowa and surrounding states produce more talent than KY and it’s surrounding states? Seems like OH, MICH, TN, and GA have been pretty good to Stoops

 

[gossie21]

I know he is an Iowa alumn, but why does everyone think that is a better job than UK at this point?

I don't know that anyone is arguing Iowa is a "better job." But, as you point out, that is his alma mater. It will have some nostalgic pull for him.

 

[satcheluk]

I don't know that anyone is arguing Iowa is a "better job." But, as you point out, that is his alma mater. It will have some nostalgic pull for him.

I suspect him now being a bachelor makes Iowa much less attractive since it is about the same size as Bowling Green. Add to that, much less salary (currently half of what he makes), worse facilities and more difficult to recruit top talent. Maybe he goes there when he wants to let the foot off the gas. No chance in France he does that anytime soon.

 

[bthaunert]

What was the competition level like for Beamer? I know he played in the Big East and then moved to the ACC. I don't recall the Big East being much of a power in football and certainly not to the level of what the SEC is today.

With that said, I really hope Stoops decides to make Kentucky his destination job, and build a legacy the way Beamer did at VaTech. Once he got the wheels pointed in the right direction he went to 23 strait bowl games. Won 10+ games 13 times.

VaTech was an independent his first 4 years, but they played a pretty good schedule usually playing 3 or 4 ranked teams a year. In his 2nd year, they played the 4th, 5th, 7th and 8th ranked teams on n the nation. That was also when big time programs were independent…Norte Dame, Miami and FSU to name a few. When they moved to the Big East, it was decent with WVU, Miami, BC, Cuse….all of which were good programs back then.

I’ve always liked the Beamer/Stoops comparison. Both had to start from scratch and just hard work…Beamers teams being ranked 17 times in a 19 year stretch.

 

[The-Hack]

I don't know that Stoops is itchy to move on. But I do think there could be very specific situations that he would consider. Obviously, in the unlikely event Ohio State or Alabama come calling it would be difficult to keep him here. I would also be concerned if Iowa or Penn State came after him.

Short of that, he would have to walk away from the program that he built from the basement up, and an administration that has been very patient and responsive to his needs.

I think the fact that he has, essentially become the face of U.K. Football will keep him here.

In addition to proximity to Ohio and a great salary, I think the fact that only Bear Bryant had won big, here, was a draw.

His name will be mentioned forever in proximity to Bear Bryant. Not a bad thing!!

 

[rye48]

Interesting point. What Stoops has accomplished is more impressive than what Beamer did in his first 9 years but, going forward, it will be harder for him to get 10 win seasons than when Beamer did it because it is the SEC.

Stoops is also doing this with 3 and a few 4star talent , this recruiting class looks to be one of our best ever can you imagine what this staff can do with mostly 4 and 5 star talent

 

[WyleECoyote]

Interesting point. What Stoops has accomplished is more impressive than what Beamer did in his first 9 years but, going forward, it will be harder for him to get 10 win seasons than when Beamer did it because it is the SEC.

Which means if he does it, it will be all the more impressive.

 

[Catfanlou]

think he would b crazy to leave here for Alabama or Ohio State or LSU .
go 9/3 here he is a saint . Go 9/3 there they run him out of town.
The added stress and expectations are simply not worth a few extra millions .

 

[billoliver40]

Thanks for this comparison Hack.
Lots of media have pointed out these days coaching is pretty much a 3 year gig. After that, best be showing some vast improvements.

 

[SosaUK87]

We've made the comparison, so how do their first 9 seasons compare?

For brevities sake, after a full 9 seasons at Virginia Tech, Beamer was 51-49-2, and at the mid-point of his 9th season at UK, Mark Stoops is 55-51.

Beamer only had 11 regular season games, 12 with bowls. Stoops has 12 regular season games, 13 with a bowl, excepting 2020 with 10 regular season games, 11 with the bowl.

Beamer went 9-3 in his seventh season, having won a max of 6 games (twice) in his first six seasons.

Stoops went 10-3 in his sixth season.

It looks like Stoops will have 59-61 wins (absent a playoff appearance) by the end of his 9th season, and from 51 to 54 losses.

Their records are remarkably similar, though Stoops achieved his "break through" season a year ahead of Beamer. Stoops also had more clearly established linear progress his first 6 seasons, with six consecutive seasons without an increase in losses or a reduction in wins. Beamer's record his fifth year, before the 9 win season, was one of his worst: 2-8-1.

Sounds like Virginia Tech was more patient than Kentucky in retaining Beamer with a 2-8-1 record his sixth year at the school!!

You are one of, if not the best poster on here. Just wanted to acknowledge greatness. Ha

 

[VT/UK Rondo]

Frank inherited a team on probation from Dooley and spent the first 3 seasons with a depleted roster and a limited number of yearly recruits.
Also, the conferences weren't so different then. The Big East then is not the Big East you have today. Miami was winning National Championship, WVU played for a title in 88 or 89. Boston College was a much better program and there was a guy at Syracuse named Donovan McNabb that made the Orange very relevant. Not the SEC but certainly not what most think of when they hear Big East either. That Big East conference would be the third best conference in today's college football.
I've followed both programs from the beginning and there are alot similarities. The big thing for UK will be keeping Stoops in a microwave era where money changes everything and a coaching carousel is the norm. Stay the course and sooner or later UK is gonna land that "Vick" type of QB and when that happens the next step will happen and the SEC East will be theirs, maybe the whole SEC. Until then, enjoy the ride. These are the good years.

 

[BlueGlasses12]

Let’s cap this season off 11-1 and I’d say Stoops will be a walking legend around here.

 

[BlueGlasses12]

Let’s cap this season off 11-1 and I’d say Stoops will be a walking legend around here. Taking us from the depths of Joker and getting manhandled against G5 teams, to what we watch every Saturday these days is damn impressive.

 

[The-Hack]

It looks like Stoops will have 59-61 wins (absent a playoff appearance) by the end of his 9th season, and from 51 to 54 losses.

To finish this thread off post-season, Stoops ended his 9th season at 59-53, and Beamer’s first 9 finished 51-49-2.

 

[Lost In FL]

I suspect him now being a bachelor makes Iowa much less attractive since it is about the same size as Bowling Green. Add to that, much less salary (currently half of what he makes), worse facilities and more difficult to recruit top talent. Maybe he goes there when he wants to let the foot off the gas. No chance in France he does that anytime soon.

CMS got divorced?

 

[IrishPokerDog]

CMS got divorced?

Yes, last year. Chantel is out in Colorado with the kids and a new beau, if I remember correctly

 

[BlueRaider22]

I like this thread. We’ll done OP.

 

[NostraDanis]

One factor that i don't see mentioned above is The Big Dawg. At this point, those guys have been through so much together - personally and professionally - that I think they are a package deal. So, when you consider how happy CMS is, you should also consider how happy and content his main man feels.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Saw a prediction for outcomes in the SEC next year. When the said UK was picked to finish second in the East, it was said matter-of-factly, no commentary or shock. Just said and then went on to say UT was picked third and so on. While I want someone to predict UK to top the East some day, I am not sure I thought winning would become expected from those away from the program.

 

[rucker4]

I know he is an Iowa alumn, but why does everyone think that is a better job than UK at this point?

Will he get more support from that administration than UK? I cannot imagine he would

Is it easier to get to a NYD6 bowl or the CFP at Iowa than UK? Either you go thru WISC/OSU/ PSU/ MICH, or you go thru UF/UGA…seems like a wash

Recruiting? Does Iowa and surrounding states produce more talent than KY and it’s surrounding states? Seems like OH, MICH, TN, and GA have been pretty good to Stoops

The Iowa job is considered a damn good job. Only two coaches only have held it for the past 43 years. Only 3 Athletic Director's during that time too- that matters a lot. STABILITY.

It's in the prestigious B1G conference. Its Head Coach is currently the 11th highest paid coach in the country so it pays well. Facilities are top of the line. Been proven you can win big at Iowa (9 different 9+ win seasons in last 21 years and 7 different 10+ win seasons in that time). Like Kentucky, no pro sports teams to compete with. Within 5-hour radius of campus are metro areas to recruit in like Chicago, St. Louis, Kansas City, Omaha, Minneapolis, Milwaukee-- which have all produced high quality players to Iowa through the years. And while more than 5 hours away, Iowa has established STRONG recruiting ties in Ohio (including your current coach) and Michigan-- having gotten many good players from those states through the years. Iowa currently boasts the 6th most former players in the NFL and has for quite awhile-- only Ohio State in the B1G has more.

Sustained strong success for 40 years now-- nothing UK has matched or most schools for that matter.

I'm not in the game of comparing the Iowa and Kentucky jobs, or Iowa's job with anyone else or Kentucky's with anyone else. In the case of Mark Stoops, or any head coach for that matter, the only ranking that matters about jobs is THEIR personal ranking-- not ours.

With all this said, this doesn't mean Mark Stoops will ever coach at his alma mater and NONE of us know how Mark ranks ANY jobs for that matter.

From afar, if I'm a UK fan, I'd be more worried in the immediate future about Mark going to Florida State (a place he once coached) than anywhere else-- IF he were to ever entertain another offer.

 

[rucker4]

To finish this thread off post-season, Stoops ended his 9th season at 59-53, and Beamer’s first 9 finished 51-49-2.

Good thread. You should do a Mark Stoops comparison to Ferentz at Iowa for several reasons: Programs are very similar, they both face the same challenges in their conferences, they both are blue collar fundamental style coaches, both inherited bad situations when they took over. You have a much better familiarity now with Iowa I'd think than Virginia Tech having just played Iowa in a bowl game-- even though VT isn't a bad comparison to make.

 

[The-Hack]

Good thread. You should do a Mark Stoops comparison to Ferentz at Iowa for several reasons: Programs are very similar, they both face the same challenges in their conferences, they both are blue collar fundamental style coaches, both inherited bad situations when they took over. You have a much better familiarity now with Iowa I'd think than Virginia Tech having just played Iowa in a bowl game-- even though VT isn't a bad comparison to make.

Actually, I/we are far more familiar with VPI . . . even knowing it’s proper names and initials, for many reasons.

We have played them more than 20 times through the decades, including in a bowl in 2019; Coach Frank Beamer coached at the FCS level in Kentucky prior to his hiring in 1986 by VPI; Former UK Head Coach Claiborne was head Coach of VPI prior to U.K.; Stoops (like Beamer) took over a program that had not seen sustained success in decades; VPI is in an adjoining state, and the subject of this thread has been a frequent topic for Cat fans since the nineties: “where is our Frank Beamer?”

Were I to do a thread similar to this involving an Iowa Coach, it would compare Stoops to his former head Coach in the 80’s. I think he faced a situation more similar to that of Mark Stoops than has Ferentz. I even think KF coached for Hayden Frye on his staff when Stoops played there. Frye established the winning tradition at Iowa (about 40 percent) of the 43 years of success you describe) and Ferentz has done a good job of sustaining it.

 

[The-Hack]

From afar, if I'm a UK fan, I'd be more worried in the immediate future about Mark going to Florida State (a place he once coached)

They came sniffing last year.

There are a lot of internal problems in Tallahassee that are rumored and written about in Southern circles.

That ship has passed.

 

[rucker4]

Actually, I/we are far more familiar with VPI . . . even knowing it’s proper names and initials, for many reasons.

We have played them more than 20 times through the decades, including in a bowl in 2019; Coach Frank Beamer coached at the FCS level in Kentucky prior to his hiring in 1986 by VPI; Former UK Head Coach Claiborne was head Coach of VPI prior to U.K.; Stoops (like Beamer) took over a program that had not seen sustained success in decades; VPI is in an adjoining state, and the subject of this thread has been a frequent topic for Cat fans since the nineties: “where is our Frank Beamer?”

Were I to do a thread similar to this involving an Iowa Coach, it would compare Stoops to his former head Coach in the 80’s. I think he faced a situation more similar to that of Mark Stoops than has Ferentz. I even think KF coached for Hayden Frye on his staff when Stoops played there. Frye established the winning tradition at Iowa (about 40 percent) of the 43 years of success you describe) and Ferentz has done a good job of sustaining it.

C'mon Hack, it's Hayden Fry He's the greatest Iowa legendary coach ever IMO.

Hayden was at Iowa for 20 years-- 1979 through 1998. Took Iowa to 3 Rose Bowls.

When Hayden took Iowa over in 1979 they had 17 CONSECUTIVE losing seasons at that. After his first two years at Iowa were losing seasons, he then took Iowa to a Rose Bowl for the 1981 season.

Hayden is who all three Stoops brothers played for.

Kirk Ferentz was Hayden's OL coach for 9 years-- starting in 1981.

 

[rucker4]

They came sniffing last year.

There are a lot of internal problems in Tallahassee that are rumored and written about in Southern circles.

That ship has passed.

Has passed "maybe" until FSU needs a new coach again-- which will be after next season if Norvell doesn't turn a big winner in 2022. Stoops would demand things are up to standard there. It's logical they will attempt another run at him.

 

[The-Hack]

He's the greatest Iowa legendary coach ever IMO.

Yeah, hence completely unlike Stoops’ tenure at U.K., following Joker Phillips, thence negating the value of a head-to-head comparison between Stoops and Ferentz.

Another good comparison is with Snyder at KSU, who took over a moribund program.

 

[The-Hack]

Stoops would demand things are up to standard there. It's logical they will attempt another run at him.

There is a school Stoops would consider, but it isn’t FSU.

The best guesses are OSU, Notre Dame and Iowa.

There is a reason his contract has an unusually low buyout, but the reason is not FSU.

He is Catholic, so some believe Notre Dame is the one.

But because his Dad has an Iowa jersey buried with him, I believe “the one” is Iowa.

 

[BlueRaider22]

Surely places like Iowa will always have a soft spot for the Stoops family. I do think that the longer Mark is at UK (assuming he remains successful), the harder it will be to leave. Ferentz just extended his contract. "If" he stays at Iowa through 2030, Mark will have been on UK for 17-18 yrs (and be in his 60's) before Iowa would come courting.

 

[The-Hack]

C'mon Hack, it's Hayden Fry

I had to look him up to get that close to spelling his name right!!

Like I said, we are far more familiar with Frank Beamer/VPI.

We had never played Iowa until 2022.

We have played VPI in seven or eight different decades.

As to Coach’s spelling, my Iowa friend, UK has two former coaches in the college HOF: (1) Bear Bryant and (2) . . . . is it Jerry Claiborne, or Jerry Claiborn?

 

[rucker4]

Yeah, hence completely unlike Stoops’ tenure at U.K., following Joker Phillips, thence negating the value of a head-to-head comparison between Stoops and Ferentz.

Another good comparison is with Snyder at KSU, who took over a moribund program.

The job Bill Snyder (former Iowa assistant under Hayden too) did at Kansas State before he retired the first time is one of college football's greatest stories ever. You might run into some disappointment comparing Mark to Snyder's time at KSU.

 

[The-Hack]

You might run into some disappointment comparing Mark to Snyder's time at KSU.

I’ve already run the first 9 years: Snyder has a small lead, but I think Stoops has a higher ceiling the next 5-10 years.

 

[rucker4]

I’ve already run the first 9 years: Snyder has a small lead, but I think Stoops has a higher ceiling the next 5-10 years.

215-117 in all his years at KSU; which is remarkable.

Take out his first 4 years there to rebuild and his record was 197-93.

I know that UK was down when Mark arrived, but I assure you it wasn't in the same miserable shape as KSU as it related to football history or facilities.

I attended a game Iowa played in Manhattan,KS just 2-3 years before Bill got the job there, and all the bleachers in the stadium were wooden. Maybe 30,000 in attendance at most. The worst big-time college football stadium I'd ever been in and was told all the other football related facilities were just as bad. It was the graveyard of college coaching at the time.

Snyder is a freaking legend for what he achieved there.

 

[rucker4]

Surely places like Iowa will always have a soft spot for the Stoops family. I do think that the longer Mark is at UK (assuming he remains successful), the harder it will be to leave. Ferentz just extended his contract. "If" he stays at Iowa through 2030, Mark will have been on UK for 17-18 yrs (and be in his 60's) before Iowa would come courting.

Ferentz will likely be at Iowa 3-4 more years before retiring; assuming the program stays strong. The contract extension he just signed was done for recruiting purposes.

 

[satcheluk]

They came sniffing last year.

There are a lot of internal problems in Tallahassee that are rumored and written about in Southern circles.

That ship has passed.

Until FSU reforms their booster controlled athletics dept, they're going to continue to have trouble attracting top coaching talent.