5 Kentucky high school players that didn't pick UK, but you wish they had.

[UK90]

Would Lorton be the same player under Tubby like was at UT?

This is a valid question.

Lofton certainly would've gotten far less playing time here with the increased guard competition for minutes he'd have faced (Rajon Rondo, Jodie Meeks, Joe Crawford, Derrick Jasper, Patrick Sparks, Ramel Bradley, etc.).

And, frankly, Lofton had clear flaws to his game that Tubby would not've liked--a very poor defender, no point guard skills, limited handle, etc.--he really was sorta just a one-dimensional outside shooter. A superb shooter, yes, but still just a shooter--would that alone have been enough for Tubby (or Gillispie) to play him ahead of, for example, Jodie Meeks--who was also an ace shooter, but one with more size, athleticism and defense?

I think being rejected by UK may've been the best thing to happen to Lofton's career. Bruce Pearl gave him unlimited playing time and a system that fit his game like a glove. His career might've gone quite differently if he'd come here.

 

[RogerIndy]

Jeff Lamp

I remember Jeff Lamp, he went as part of a "package" deal from Louisville Ballard (my HS) to Virginia, also Lee Raker and Coach Richard Schmidt went as an assistant. Schmidt after a couple of years got the HC job at Vandy, lasted 2 years and has been at Division II University of Tampa ever since (34 years),

 

[TopCatCal]

I am a Seneca teammate of Wes..the color barrier had nothing to do with it.His Mother wanted a safety guarantee because of the KKK down South Rupp wouldn't give that and he could not..UL was in the Missouri Valley Conference no games in Deep South..McDaniels had an advisor who ws a Scottsville Vet he demanded an $100,000 interest free loan from Rupp to get McDaniels to sign Coach Rupp told him to stick it..Casey was my Roomate at UK If he wasn't hurt in 1970 we win the Title...easy..Hollenbeck was plagued with injuries..Key was a great Guard as was Terry Mills..

The story you told about Wes's mom being afraid of the KKK down south is 100% true. I remember reading that in a book years ago, the book might have been written by Harry Lancaster. Any how Unseld not coming to UK had everything to do with race. The SEC, the crazy ass KKK, what a sad, pathetic time that was. And to think these rotten, P.O.S. in the media makes coach Rupp out to be a racist. I've heard from people in the know that Rupp never had a racist bone in his body. Rupp would have gave his right arm if he could have coached Unseld.

 

[2Adulterers]

The story you told about Wes's mom being afraid of the KKK down south is 100% true. I remember reading that in a book years ago, the book might have been written by Harry Lancaster. Any how Unseld not coming to UK had everything to do with race. The SEC, the crazy ass KKK, what a sad, pathetic time that was. And to think these rotten, P.O.S. in the media makes coach Rupp out to be a racist. I've heard from people in the know that Rupp never had a racist bone in his body. Rupp would have gave his right arm if he could have coached Unseld.

I know I was Rupp's Student Manager his last 4 years..He was no racist..

 

[2Adulterers]

Wes Unseld
Butch Beard
Mike Silliman
Clem Haskins
And no list complete without
King Kelly Coleman

King Kelly was one of a kind..

 

[2Adulterers]

The story you told about Wes's mom being afraid of the KKK down south is 100% true. I remember reading that in a book years ago, the book might have been written by Harry Lancaster. Any how Unseld not coming to UK had everything to do with race. The SEC, the crazy ass KKK, what a sad, pathetic time that was. And to think these rotten, P.O.S. in the media makes coach Rupp out to be a racist. I've heard from people in the know that Rupp never had a racist bone in his body. Rupp would have gave his right arm if he could have coached Unseld.

The Book you referenced is "Adolph Rupp As I Knew Him" by Harry S Lancaster

 

[UKrazycat2]

This is a valid question.

I think Lofton certainly would've gotten far less playing time here with the increased guard competition for minutes he'd have faced during those years (see Rajon Rondo, Jodie Meeks, Joe Crawford, Derrick Jasper, Patrick Sparks, Ramel Bradley, etc.).

And, frankly, Lofton had some clear flaws to his game that I doubt Tubby would've liked--a very poor defender, no point guard skills, limited handle, etc.--he really was sorta just a one-dimensional outside shooter. A superb shooter, yes, but still just a shooter--would that alone have been enough for Tubby (or Gillispie) to play him ahead of, for example, Jodie Meeks--who was also an ace shooter, but one with far more size, athleticism and defense?

I think being rejected by UK may've been the best thing to happen to Lofton's career. Bruce Pearl gave him unlimited playing time and a system that fit his game like a glove. His career might've gone quite differently if he'd come here.

This is a good post and makes me wonder what if he played with his hair on fire at UK like he did at tennerseee, how you justify keeping him out of the game. Dude gave me heartburn and always made me wonder what if.

 

[MegaBlue05]

Jp stop CORRECTING ME. haha.

Maybe I was thinking the argument at the time was he took Stockton but wouldn't take lofton and I conflated it. It's been a while. But it seems like he stiffed lofton for someone at the time who didn't turn out. My memory has gotten worse since I left my 20's.

The problem, IMO, was a possible Lofton scholly was filled the year before by any member of the 2003 class (Woo, Prerry, Shagari, Thomas). All good kids. None were ever capable of playing major minutes at the University of Kentucky. That group was the first nail in Tubby's coffin. The class of 2005 (Carter, Sims, A. Williams) was a nail gun. Half our team might've come off the bench for EKU during that era.



On topic, I always thought Dwayne Morton would've been better off to play at UK for a young Pitino instead of going to UL to suit up for a declining Denny Crum.

 

[morgousky]

The problem, IMO, was a possible Lofton scholly was filled the year before by any member of the 2003 class (Woo, Prerry, Shagari, Thomas). All good kids. None were ever capable of playing major minutes at the University of Kentucky. That group was the first nail in Tubby's coffin. The class of 2005 (Carter, Sims, A. Williams) was a nail gun. Half our team might've come off the bench for EKU during that era.



On topic, I always thought Dwayne Morton would've been better off to play at UK for a young Pitino instead of going to UL to suit up for a declining Denny Crum.

That last part is foreign to me. Think I was 3/4.

 

[Caintuk]

Rudy Macklin
Daryl Dawkins
Shane Battier

 

[bigbluefattycat]

James Blackmon because of growing up watching his father.

 

[JPScott]

It goes back a ways but surprised no one has mentioned Frank Selvy.

A few other good players from Kentucky who went elsewhere include Jeff Mullins and Dave Cowens.

 

[anon_013cn8yrfncx2]

I played some 5-on-5 pick up ball back in 2010 and Chris Lofton was on the other team. Not sure he missed a shot all day. That dude could flat out get buckets and I still have no clue why Tubby never offered him.

IMO the real reason is because Loftons team beat Tubbys sons team in the state title game. And I say that as a former TSFer

 

[Stretch98]

Jeff Mullins from Lafayette in Lexington. All-American and ACC player of the year at Duke, Olympian, NBA all-star.

 

[morgousky]

Rudy Macklin
Daryl Dawkins
Shane Battier

How is this troll allowed to post?

The only fanbase that uses that bs name are Louisville fans.

You'd think they'd be far too ashamed to post anywhere around here. I guess it just goes to their mindset.

My god, from the prostitution for players scandal, to Ricks tactics, to Petrino, to the slum lord of athletic directors, it's amazing how they just have no shame at all.

 

[RondoBaller21]

Allen Houston and Chris Lofton

 

[clevenger32]

Ralph Mayes and Tommy Hagan who both played at Vanderbilt in the late 60s and help VU be ranked in the top 10

 

[LeonThe Camel]

My 5 would be

1. Wes Unseld
2. Jim McDaniels
3. Jim Rose
4. Dave Cowens
5. Darrell Griffith

Unseld - If the SEC would have allowed black players a few years earlier. Imagine Unseld the man with the greatest outlet pass in history as the starting center on Rupp Runts... Can you say undefeated.

McDaniels & Rose - With Unseld breaking the color barrier a few years earlier. That would have made it much easier to have signed McDaniels & Rose. This time imagine McDaniels & Rose on UK's 1970 team along side Dan Issel, Mike Pratt & a healthy Mike Casey. A starting 5 of Pratt. Issel, McDaniels, Casey Rose. Would have been UK's greatest team ever.

Cowens- Don't remember him as a high school or college player. I do remember him as a NBA player. Add Cowens to UK's 1970 team. Now we're talking about not only UK's greatest team ever. But arguably the greatest team in the history of college basketball.... Some of that roster would have looked like
1. Mike Pratt All-SEC
2. Dan Issel Hall of Fame
3. Jim McDaniels All- American
4. Mike Casey All- SEC
5. Jim Rose All- OVC
6. Larry Steele 9 year NBA veteran
7. Tom Parker 1972 SEC player of the year
8. Dave Cowens Hall of Fame
9. Kent Hollenbeck Avg. 14.0 ppg in 70-71
10. Stan Key Avg. 12.4 ppg in 71-72

Griffith - How great would it have been to have to have stole Griffith from UL ?

The SEC was not the issue.

 

[Sawnee Cat]

Rudy Macklin
Daryl Dawkins
Shane Battier

I would love to have had Rudy Macklin and he is certainly in my top 6. Dawkins was from Orlando, Florida and went from high school to the NBA. I don't know where Shane Battier was from but it was not Kentucky.

 

[JPScott]

The SEC was not the issue.

Playing in the Deep South was a huge issue. And indeed many of the SEC schools were a problem.

When UK first publicly declared their intention to integrate in 1963 they sent out a survey to all SEC schools as to how they would respond. Some schools like Tennessee & Vanderbilt responded it would not be an issue, but other schools were not so receptive.

Before Rupp formally offered Wes Unseld a scholarship in the Spring of 1964 he got Ole Miss and Mississippi State to agree to play their games vs. Kentucky in Memphis rather than their own campuses.

It indeed was an issue. At the time Kentucky was regularly being harassed on the road in the SEC and that was when they were all-white.

 

[~Keyser Soze~]

Rudy Macklin
Daryl Dawkins
Shane Battier

He's before my time so I never knew who Rudy Macklin was until I saw his 30 for 30 short. He's from Louisville, led LSU to the Final Four, and is the 2nd All-Time leading scorer behind Pistol Pete and their leading rebounder in school history. How did Coach Hall and Coach Crum let him get away.

 

[morgousky]

The SEC was not the issue.

This is totally false. The SEC WAS the issue. My father and grandfather have spoke about it foe decades. Their experience in the matter is way above yours.

 

[Caintuk]

How is this troll allowed to post?

The only fanbase that uses that bs name are Louisville fans.

You'd think they'd be far too ashamed to post anywhere around here. I guess it just goes to their mindset.

My god, from the prostitution for players scandal, to Ricks tactics, to Petrino, to the slum lord of athletic directors, it's amazing how they just have no shame at all.

Hardly a troll, but I should have paid better attention to the question.....I didnt filter for the "Kentucky high school" part. Rather thinking about players I knew UK had interest in and I liked their game.

 

[Caintuk]

He's before my time so I never knew who Rudy Macklin was until I saw his 30 for 30 short. He's from Louisville, led LSU to the Final Four, and is the 2nd All-Time leading scorer behind Pistol Pete and their leading rebounder in school history. How did Coach Hall and Coach Crum let him get away.

View embedded media

Not sure how he escaped being a Cat but I remember when he and Dwayne Scales came to Lexington and put a hurtin on us. One really despicable moment I'll never forget....LSU gets a runout, long pass to Scales and he holds up right under the rim and waits...hesitates....for the UK defender to reach him and then slams it in his face. Tough moment.

 

[morgousky]

Hardly a troll, but I should have paid better attention to the question.....I didnt filter for the "Kentucky high school" part. Rather thinking about players I knew UK had interest in and I liked their game.

Im talking about your handle.

Or can you explain "caintuk"?

 

[Sawnee Cat]

This is totally false. The SEC WAS the issue. My father and grandfather have spoke about it foe decades. Their experience in the matter is way above yours.

Correct, it was the SEC and also the Southwest Conference and ACC were not integrated. When the Southwest Conference said they would recruit black players (early 60's) Rupp said it would open the door for Kentucky to recruit blacks. When he said that some wanted to kick UK out of the SEC. It was against the law for any Mississippi school to play whites against blacks. Mississippi State had to turn down an NCAA bid after winning the SEC basketball Championship because of the probability they would play against a team with black players. One year they won the SEC and decided to sneak out in the middle of the night to go play in the NCAA because of fear of the coaches and team being arrested.

If one did not live during that time they have no idea. Florida, Georgia, LSU, the Mississippi schools and Alabama schools all presented a problem. Only Tennessee and Vandy were "safe". At no time in Adolph Rupp's career did he refuse to play against a team with blacks but rather he sought out the best teams in the nation to play because he wanted UK to be a national brand team. And he did.

As far as Durand "Rudy" Macklin, he was a beast and one of several black Kentucky players LSU took from the state. Kenny Higgs was another.

 

[TopCatCal]

The SEC was not the issue.

The year might have been 1963. Mississippi St. won the SEC & then refused to play in the NCAA tournament because they would have had to play against blacks. And you say that the SEC wasn't a problem? Oh yeah, it would have been real nice taking Unseld down to Starkville, Miss., I'm sure Unseld & UK would have been welcomed with open arms..... NO it would have been a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[Sawnee Cat]

The year might have been 1963. Mississippi St. won the SEC & then refused to play in the NCAA tournament because they would have had to play against blacks. And you say that the SEC wasn't a problem? Oh yeah, it would have been real nice taking Unseld down to Starkville, Miss., I'm sure Unseld & UK would have been welcomed with open arms..... NO it would have been a disaster waiting to happen.

The UK team would have been stopped before they got to the gym in Starkville due to Mississippi law. If they gave any resistance the Mississippi State Troopers would have arrested the coaches and probably the team. The game could have been moved to Memphis and played but I doubt any other place would have allowed it.

 

[Ripcord65]

Three guys from the 1963 KHSAA All-State Tournament Team: Wes Unseld (as a Junior), Clem Haskins (Taylor County, WKU), Dwight Smith (Princeton Dotson, WKU).

 

[LeonThe Camel]

This is totally false. The SEC WAS the issue. My father and grandfather have spoke about it foe decades. Their experience in the matter is way above yours.

Say what you will, but I will stick with first hand knowledge of my own.

 

[LeonThe Camel]

The year might have been 1963. Mississippi St. won the SEC & then refused to play in the NCAA tournament because they would have had to play against blacks. And you say that the SEC wasn't a problem? Oh yeah, it would have been real nice taking Unseld down to Starkville, Miss., I'm sure Unseld & UK would have been welcomed with open arms..... NO it would have been a disaster waiting to happen.

You can hide behind the SEC all you want. NOTHING required us to stay in the league. If the school was that opposed, the leaders would have taken a stand and left.

 

[JPScott]

The UK team would have been stopped before they got to the gym in Starkville due to Mississippi law. If they gave any resistance the Mississippi State Troopers would have arrested the coaches and probably the team. The game could have been moved to Memphis and played but I doubt any other place would have allowed it.

I've posted this before, but the attached article near the bottom of the first page does explicitly note that Kentucky had already made arrangements to use Memphis State as a location to play the games vs. Mississippi State and Ole Miss.

 

[JPScott]

You can hide behind the SEC all you want. NOTHING required us to stay in the league. If the school was that opposed, the leaders would have taken a stand and left.

Easier said than done. UK was responsible to pay off their bonds for Memorial Coliseum etc. Leaving the SEC would have been irresponsible from a financial standpoint and extremely impractical. Frank Dickey, who was President of UK from 1956 to 1963, has been interviewed about these very issues.

As it was, UK did push the SEC to integrate, even if they weren't the first ones to do so in basketball.

 

[morgousky]

You can hide behind the SEC all you want. NOTHING required us to stay in the league. If the school was that opposed, the leaders would have taken a stand and left.

This is ridiculous. Do you understand the difference in 1960 and 2017? That was life back then, everywhere. Had we left the SEC we would have endured some of the same problems elsewhere.

Unc just used AA studies and black culture classes to cover for cheating. Should Georgia Tech take a stand and refuse to play them?

Different eras, different time. But UK made strides to turn that culture in the SEC in BOTH sports, and all you can say is " har har you should have left!!"

As usual, another ridiculous post. Maybe you should just hang it up.

 

[Simple_Man]

Leonard Coulter from Danville would have been a good choice at Kentucky...

 

[LeonThe Camel]

This is ridiculous. Do you understand the difference in 1960 and 2017? That was life back then, everywhere. Had we left the SEC we would have endured some of the same problems elsewhere.

Unc just used AA studies and black culture classes to cover for cheating. Should Georgia Tech take a stand and refuse to play them?

Different eras, different time. But UK made strides to turn that culture in the SEC in BOTH sports, and all you can say is " har har you should have left!!"

As usual, another ridiculous post. Maybe you should just hang it up.

And you can hide behind it was the times. Either you stand up morally or follow.

 

[morgousky]

And you can hide behind it was the times. Either you stand up morally or follow.

Should Georgia Tech choose to play UNC after the tarheels used black culture as a way of manipulating the system for profit?

 

[TeoJ]

Say what you will, but I will stick with first hand knowledge of my own.

The first hand knowledge you say you have doesn't seem to be very good.

 

[morgousky]

The first hand knowledge you say you have doesn't seem to be very good.

Same guy who thinks Golden State is gonna go broke because he doesn't understand where their money comes from.

Very opinionated poster with very little knowledge. The worst kind.

Believe he's a Duke fan too. Lol.

 

[anon_q409idbs5m40a]

My 5 would be

1. Wes Unseld
2. Jim McDaniels
3. Jim Rose
4. Dave Cowens
5. Darrell Griffith

Unseld - If the SEC would have allowed black players a few years earlier. Imagine Unseld the man with the greatest outlet pass in history as the starting center on Rupp Runts... Can you say undefeated.

McDaniels & Rose - With Unseld breaking the color barrier a few years earlier. That would have made it much easier to have signed McDaniels & Rose. This time imagine McDaniels & Rose on UK's 1970 team along side Dan Issel, Mike Pratt & a healthy Mike Casey. A starting 5 of Pratt. Issel, McDaniels, Casey Rose. Would have been UK's greatest team ever.

Cowens- Don't remember him as a high school or college player. I do remember him as a NBA player. Add Cowens to UK's 1970 team. Now we're talking about not only UK's greatest team ever. But arguably the greatest team in the history of college basketball.... Some of that roster would have looked like
1. Mike Pratt All-SEC
2. Dan Issel Hall of Fame
3. Jim McDaniels All- American
4. Mike Casey All- SEC
5. Jim Rose All- OVC
6. Larry Steele 9 year NBA veteran
7. Tom Parker 1972 SEC player of the year
8. Dave Cowens Hall of Fame
9. Kent Hollenbeck Avg. 14.0 ppg in 70-71
10. Stan Key Avg. 12.4 ppg in 71-72

Griffith - How great would it have been to have to have stole Griffith from UL ?

I was under the impression that Rupp didn't want Cowans. If so, it wasn't a matter of him picking UK or not.