He really reminds me of Charles Matthews. Same size, same position, similar ranking. Hopefully Shai sees himself here for 2 or 3 years unlike Matthews. Unfortunately, these kids at UK feel like failures if they're not OAD.
‘They don’t have a one-and-done on this roster’
- Thread starter preacher_tom
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He really reminds me of Charles Matthews. Same size, same position, similar ranking. Hopefully Shai sees himself here for 2 or 3 years unlike Matthews. Unfortunately, these kids at UK feel like failures if they're not OAD.
The guys coming in are coming to UK to be one and done. How do people, especially our own fans not realize this yet? Green, Diallo (yes im counting diallo), Washington, Vanderbilt and Richards all plan to leave after next season. Bamba will be extremely likely to leave if we get him. I could see Richards, Washington, and Green as potential returnees but I wont get my hopes up.
Eric will probably eat some crow with this statement, if not, I'll be shocked. Sometimes players don't know what they are capable of.
Cal sold Green on being a OAD.. Told him he will have failed him as a coach if he isn't.. Whether he actually will though,, we'll find out after next season..
He certainly does..He has admitted to ripping up a few scholarships. He lets our recruits know when recruiting them how many are leaving even before the season starts. Recruits are on record with that. So many examples, tyler Ulis also comes to mind. I love Cal but he is all about getting as many kids to pro ball as possible.
Did you watch his 30 for 30? He clearly went on record stating "My job IS NOT to win championships, its just not". Wake up people. We love our coach but fans are fooled believing its all about titles with Cal. That is a secondary thing.
Based on measurables alone no way IMO does diallo return for a second year. And if we get bamba that's at least 2 and maybe more. I think Vanderbilt is gonna be big time as well to make it maybe 3. That's a huge reach on Daniels part and I feel like he's just looking for hits by saying outlandish ish, not saying that's always the case with him but right here I believe it to be because I just don't in any earthly way with the roster we have right now see diallo returning for a sophomore season.
He also said do right by them and they'll do right by you and win games. I don't consider pulling scholarships from guaranteed top 10 picks to be 'pushing them out the door'. I consider it, doing what's best for the individual involved and his family as apposed to pulling a Roy or K and telling players that have no business returning to return. Which in turn gains traction for other individuals to join the BBN train they wouldn't have joined without. Every players dream is to be OAD. That's why they come here. If cal was holding them back, not as many would come. Give and take.
It's not a cakewalk but we should have more than just one damn title at this point with the teams we've had.
At the very minimum we should have 2. Truly it should be 3 but even if it were just 2 then I personally wouldn't be such a critic of Cal and others probably wouldn't as well.
That fits in with my point he is players first, not championship first. I would not trade cal for anything but call a spade a spade. We will NEVER win another championship again until we have kids come back like 2012. As long as kids like teague, Briscoe, Goodwin, humphries, Skal, Harrison twins, dakari, ect. Not coming back, it will be damn near impossible. Harrison twins should have came back, why go late 2ND round, and undrafted? NBA isn't going anywhere, their family is upper middle class. It's because like a recruits family said, there is a perception at UK if you don't get drafted right away, you failed. Why is that? Because when cal recruits you he already is planning your replacement next year and telling the recruit that you will be gone. What do you do with that? We need 5 star players back just like Duke, UNC, and KU does. Yeah yeah they lose in the tournament to except UNC that made the championship two years in a row SHOULD have won two years in a row.
Us fans are about championships. What happens when we do right by the kids but they don't do right by us? Doesn't change anything we are left heart broken and we lose 5-8 kids again. NO MATTER HOW YOU FEEL, Cal is OK as long as he sends 5-8 kids to NBA every year no matter how our season ended. His payoff comes in the green room. That's how he determines success. Only us fans put championships first. That's why 90% of Kentucky former players, Dan issel don't agree that our best day as a program was in a green room in new York. This is us as long as he is coach.
The only projected first rounders we have are Richards and Diallo, and they are both late first round. Now I agree that if that's where they end up, they will still leave, but I understand the thinking that we don't have a lot of guys who are expected to come in and set the world on fire right away.
You can come in WANTING to be OAD. But if you ain't good enough, then you ain't good enough! If you're undersized for your NBA position, then you may need to learn skills for another position.
That doesn't mean you aren't good enough to become an NBA player, it just means it may take 2 or 3 years instead of just 1.
Richards needs to continue to improve his overall skill level.
Washington is undersized to be an NBA PF, so he will need to develop SF skills.
Green is undersized, and will need to become an elite PG, which may take more than 2 years.
Diallo needs to learn how to shoot.
SGA needs to learn how to shoot, and fill out more.
Vanderbilt needs to become more consistent, and probably better develop his outside game.
Vanderbilt & Washington will also be battling w/ Gabriel for minutes, and it's quite possible Gabriel plays ahead of one or both of them.
Sure 1-2 of these may achieve this in 1 year, but it's more likely that most do not and it takes a little longer.
You're foolish. He has told players to come back. I know that for a fact. Also, you're crazy if you think he doesn't want to win titles. He does.
Michael Porter would be a top 10 player in every single recruiting class there has ever been.
What an uneducated juvenile statement. NO WAY he would be drafted top 10 in 1996.
Allen Iverson
Marcus Camby
Shareef Abdur-Rahim
Stephon Marbury
Ray Allen
Antoine Walker
Steve Nash
Kobe Bryant
Samaki Walker
Jermaine O'Neal
Wow, what a profoundly silly response.
First of all, that's an NBA draft class, not a recruiting class.
2nd, Porter is a VASTLY better prospect at 18 than every single guy on that list with the possible exception of Kobe.
i kinda agree...the problem is, Cal contradicts himself a little with (paraphrase) "I want to win more that anyone"....you have to win; to win the title
Well this thread kind of devolved into a criticism of Calipari and the one and done system in general. But I digress...
To say that NONE of these incoming players (and I'm assuming he means Diallo as well) will be a one and done is, at the very least, a very bold prediction. I'd say it's a ridiculous thing to suggest. There are several guys here who could possibly be one and done, Diallo being at or near the top of that list right now. Vanderbilt is a very unique talent as well, with his length and size, his versatility, and his tenacity defensively. I just heard a commentator for the Jordan Brand the other night suggest that PJ Washington would likely lead the team in scoring next year, and he may be right. Also, Calipari isn't done recruiting. If Bamba comes, he's another likely one and done.
On the other hand, there is some legitimacy to what he's saying, and it's more a reflection on the class as a whole than on individual players. This class just isn't as good as others have been.
Finally, I'm fine with having some guys back, as others have said. I hope we have multimple guys back. It may mean next season isn't as good as this year was, but it could mean that 2018 may be very good.
To the guy bashing Calipari that I've heard very little from when the team is winning, I don't have much use for that. Every Coach is after the same players. Cal just reels them in when others can't. And yes, he wants them to be the best they can be and wants them to succeed. I'm not going to fault him for it. And yes, we can all win with him focusing on that. If you think he doesn't care about championships, I think you're crazy. If you think his players don't care about championships or UK, go look at that video of Fox and Bam after that loss to UNC and then repeat that to me with a straight face.
To say that NONE of these incoming players (and I'm assuming he means Diallo as well) will be a one and done is, at the very least, a very bold prediction. I'd say it's a ridiculous thing to suggest. There are several guys here who could possibly be one and done, Diallo being at or near the top of that list right now. Vanderbilt is a very unique talent as well, with his length and size, his versatility, and his tenacity defensively. I just heard a commentator for the Jordan Brand the other night suggest that PJ Washington would likely lead the team in scoring next year, and he may be right. Also, Calipari isn't done recruiting. If Bamba comes, he's another likely one and done.
On the other hand, there is some legitimacy to what he's saying, and it's more a reflection on the class as a whole than on individual players. This class just isn't as good as others have been.
Finally, I'm fine with having some guys back, as others have said. I hope we have multimple guys back. It may mean next season isn't as good as this year was, but it could mean that 2018 may be very good.
To the guy bashing Calipari that I've heard very little from when the team is winning, I don't have much use for that. Every Coach is after the same players. Cal just reels them in when others can't. And yes, he wants them to be the best they can be and wants them to succeed. I'm not going to fault him for it. And yes, we can all win with him focusing on that. If you think he doesn't care about championships, I think you're crazy. If you think his players don't care about championships or UK, go look at that video of Fox and Bam after that loss to UNC and then repeat that to me with a straight face.
While as a fan, I like to see the Cats win. I believe the players and Cal want to win as well.
However, given the hypocrisy of NCAA basketball ("student athlete", UNCheats, schools exploiting kids without compensation, etc.) I fully support Cal getting as many into the league as quickly as he can. Yes, that's a more admirable goal than championships.
And I hope by year's end there are 7-8 OADs on this roster.
However, given the hypocrisy of NCAA basketball ("student athlete", UNCheats, schools exploiting kids without compensation, etc.) I fully support Cal getting as many into the league as quickly as he can. Yes, that's a more admirable goal than championships.
And I hope by year's end there are 7-8 OADs on this roster.
not convinced porter is 'vastly' better than an 18 y o marbury
huge talent who sadly became a walk-it-up gunner instead of the proto chris paul on roids he could've been
huge talent who sadly became a walk-it-up gunner instead of the proto chris paul on roids he could've been
admirable? Yea but as a fan what are you getting out of this? I want championships or why else play the game? Its very odd that out of all the D1 colleges, only UK goal is how many people we can get paid, NOT win a title. Cal eats, our players eat, why do us loyal fans starve? To Cal we come last and we are the lifeblood to this tradition. I really dont get that.
im crazy for quoting it strait from his mouth? But im delusional. This is my frustration as a fan. Everything i said is fact and is on record. Youre the crazy one prove me wrong.
What are we getting out of this? Are you frickin' serious?
Before my head explodes, here:
youll be ok go hide in a corner before your precious head explodes. Bless your little heart.
I think you are the one showing your lack of understanding.
Cal told Wagner, Cousins, and MKG they couldn't come back.
He told or expected many players to return.
If you can't figure out what Cal is doing by now that is on you.
If you think he is faking that raw emotion on the sidelines every single game and that winning is not important to him then that's on you too.
Should we have another title, sure, Cal has said so and I bet it hurts him more than it does any of us, especially 2010 and 2015.
You have no argument. OK, one, and it can be summed up like this:
Titles, titles, titles, titles (then proceed to stick your fingers in your ears and shake your head).
Followed up by this:
So really, other than your one word agenda, you have nothing to offer except endless whining.
I am getting cheap entertainment, watching older adolescents and young adults playing a game. But I feel guilty sometimes when I ponder how these young men are being exploited, especially by the UNCheats and UoLoLs of this world.
If Cal is trying to see the players succeed and "eat", he has more integrity than the other millionaire coaches who think of themselves and their records first.
Players first! And they don't owe us fans one damm thing!
Mmmm, not true. Of course there was 13, but we weren't going anywhere in 15/16 either. We couldn't even beat IU.
But, it's still a very impressive stat nonetheless. 6 out of 8 years we were a legit threat. I'll take that.
I haven't been following recruiting as tightly as some of you have, but I have seen lots of comments about how good Vanderbilt is…. But he's not considered a 1 and done? I don't get that, simply because it really only takes a mediocre season for these guys to do enough to impress the league. If Skal can make it and Hump feels like he's an NBA guy then, IMO, most of cbb is one and done. Especially freshmen with size, length and/or athleticism.
Wait. Did you say UNC should have won 2 titles in a row. First of all, they didn't belong in the tourney and had the same things been happening under cal we wouldn't be allowed in the NCAAT for a decade. Secondly. Did you not see the officiating in the Oregon, UK, Arkansas and Gonzaga games? They shouldn't have won a damn thing they should've been out in the second round when the refs took control of the arkansas game when Ark had UNC on the ropes. I'm 100% convinced the entire tourney was rigged for UNC to win it all. So no. They shouldn't have won 2 years in a row. In fact they shouldn't have been allowed in the NCAAT due to the scum that is Roy.
I'd much rather cal run things the way he does than us have Roy running things the way he does. Him talking young kids out of million dollar contracts to boost his own resume is despicable and has cost some kids NBA contracts. Rather have an honest coach like cal tell the kids how it is, than a coach like Roy ruining kids careers with fake classes and convincing them to return when the only person it benefits is Roy and not the student athlete in any way shape or form. I don't care much for the deceptive selfish ways of a coach like Roy who is himself first and players second.
But if you feel like that's how cal should run things by convincing kids that have no business returning to return then the more power to you. I'm fine wth how things are. Sometimes he tells kids to return and they just don't. It's won us one title before, and I expect more to come, so I'm content. The way I see it is we're an eligible kanter (which was the rightful thing to do) away from having 2. And a WCS injury away from 3. And terrible officiating in the Wisconsin and UNC games from 4 and 5.
A lot of luck has to go your way when you're UK getting jacked up brackets and crooked refs, it's a lot easier when you're duke and UNC getting cakewalks brackets and crooked refs assisting you to the title. Give us Duke and UNC's refs and the preferential treatment they get in brackets and from the NCAA and IMO cal would have AT LEAST 5 titles right now. That's why those school's have won lately. Nothing less, nothing more. Unfortunately cal doesn't have those resources to his disposal like Duke and UNC*** do. Or vice versa and the refs just being fair calling games both ways and the NCAA ruling things our way like kanter they can't do that but UNC can hand out fake classes for decades and nothing happen. If things were fair and equal all around. I still think cal would have 5 titles at UK even without the crooked resources Duke and UNC have. But hey. Here I am just calling a spade a spade you know.
The kids that have no business returning, cal doesn't allow them to return. The kids that cal feel would be better off returning, he tells them that returning would be best for them. Sometimes the kids he tells to return don't listen and there's nothing he can do about. When a kid does that though, he supports the decision and does whatever he can to help them. It's the right thing to do. Many of these kids come from difficult financial situations and their families need the money. What's he supposed to do? Try his best to convince these kids to return when it's not the right thing to do so their families can continue being poor?
I just don't understand your argument here. So what you want is cal to convince more kids who have no business returning to return instead of making millions? Why so we can increase our chances at POSSIBLY winning a title even though we could easily still win it without them? The risk in that simply isn't worth the reward from the kids perspective. Cal is simply doing the right thing, and it's working. He's not looking out for himself and no one but himself like Roy, K, and pitino do. And the fact that cal handles himself the way he does by doing the right thing is what keeps getting us the best of the best every year. If he didn't handle himself in that way we wouldn't continue getting the best of the best.
Point is. The kids that have no business returning. Should go achieve their dreams and not risk injury. The kids who are better off returning, cal tells them to return. And sometimes, they just don't return. But he always does the right thing. He's one of the few who handles himself with integrity. I couldn't be happier with Cal and his system in place. Yes we had lamb and jones return, because they weren't ready yet and they helped us win a title. Same thing happened with WCS, twins, etc. We will continue to have players like this return to add experience to rosters. And we will continue getting the best of the best to mix in with them, and we will continue losing guaranteed lottery picks to the draft, and in some cases players just leave because they want to leave even against cal's advice in hopes for later first round, second round picks. Because that's what some kids want even if it's not best for them sometimes.
Cal couldn't be handling these situations any better than he does. And the fact people still criticize the way he handles these situations is laughable and delusional to me. As a coach, who the kid trusted to sign with, who the parents trusted to take in its son. Cal owes it to them to do what's best for them and the families involved. Sometimes they listen, sometimes they don't.
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This, anyone that disagrees has had their head(s) in the sand for the last 7 years. Guys that fumble through the season and look okay in a few games still jump off these UK teams.
So just because the refs assisted UNC with their runs and the NCAA is dragging their feet, means that UNC didn't actually appear in two NCAA title games with a shot to win both?
I don't care how they got there, they were there and they won one of them and should have won the other.
But the rest of your post is just as ridiculous. Roy Williams is a college coach, he is not an agent for the NBA, as long as he's honest with those kids during the recruiting process, I see nothing at all wrong with those UNC kids staying 3 or 4 years. It's their choice, they are adults and they are capable of making their own decisions. I don't see where Roy is holding anyone back.
Look, I hate UNC just as much as you, but to say that UNC and RW are ruining these kids lives because those kids stayed in school is just ridiculous crap.
I think it's ridiculous that so many kids jump early. This is college, not the damn D league and Roy is running his program, his COLLEGE program, the way a college program was intended to run (with the exception of the scam that Dean Smith started).
If Cal was doing it that way we would all point and laugh at everyone else for doing it a different way. Your post is a prime example of that. I mean, you are literally shaming a coach because his kids come back to school and have given him 3 national titles. That's just dumb. Sorry dude, but damn, think before you post.
Yeah, see articles like this come out, nobody says anything, but then 4-6 players jump and get drafted and the narrative is that those players were one and done no matter where they went.
Exactly. This is UK, where has he been? It will be easier to list the dudes that aren't jumping early, starting with Brad Calipari.
I mean come on, Humphries is jumping, that's all anyone needs to know.
I edited my post. And I think you're missing the point. The guy I was quoting said UNC SHOULD have won 2 titles. The first one. Why should've they won? Because a guy hit a buzzer beater instead of missing and the game going into OT? It's not as if he misses then UNC wins. And this seasons title is also as corrupt as it gets. What you mean so what UNC was assisted to make both title games. And in this season case, they were assisted in 4 freaking games to make it. Are you telling me UK wouldn't have made the title game this season without the same kind of assistance? Foolishness.
I have no need to reply to anymore of your nonsense. People who say so what about UNC's rigged corruption to the title games are hilarious. They act as if UK wouldn't have had similar results with the same assistance. And then say we would be better off talking these kids who have no business in returning to return. Even though if we had the same officiating as UNC we would've won the '11 title, '14 title '15 title, and IMO the '17 title with the CURRENT SYSTEM WE USE IN PLACE. It's not that UNC's system works better. Its that the corruption is on UNC's side. If we received the same favorable corruption. Then we'd have at least 3 more titles IMO. So it's not the system Cal uses that hurts us. But the corruption that hurts us. Which we can do nothing about. The system is perfect. Give us the same favorable treatment UNC gets and we have at least 3 more banners right now.
UNC should have won in 16 simply because they were the much better team and they were in the title game, it's that simple. They let one get away.
Crying about the lift they got in 17 from the officials is just that, crying. Arkansas went dead cold at the end, had they taken care of the ball they win.
UK had a 5 point lead with under 2 to play and made some mistakes, they lost. Oregon got out muscled. Were there some bad calls? Yup, but veteran players, especially talented veteran players, know how to get calls.
But again, shaming a college coach and a college program because kids made it to their Junior or senior years before jumping/graduating is just ridiculous.
I wish we had players that stuck around to win titles. I get the AD's, the Wall's, the Townes', but all these other dudes that aren't lottery picks were never here for UK, but we are pointing and laughing at everyone else because their kids return to college. When did that become a bad thing? I missed that memo.
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