Certainly seems to be true at all levels, I know it was in my company flag football league.
Liked your last sentence.
The rest of it not so much.
‘The better my players are, I seem to coach better ‘
- Thread starter Smashcat
- Start date
Certainly seems to be true at all levels, I know it was in my company flag football league.
The rest of it not so much.
Self wasn't considered to be all that great until recently. We laughed at KU and Self when he was losing to the likes of Bradley, Bucknel, Northern Iowa and Wichita state. Now, KU fans are the ones doing the laughing.
The game changed in 2016. Coaches like Self, Drew and Wright were mid prior to that, since 2016, they've thrived.
Wasn't that about the time when some of the bigger programs, except UK, started laughing at the toothless NCAA?
The game changed in 2016. Coaches like Self, Drew and Wright were mid prior to that, since 2016, they've thrived.
Wasn't that about the time when some of the bigger programs, except UK, started laughing at the toothless NCAA?
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IMO Cal's biggest fault is he pushes his most talented players out the door after their freshman year, while other programs hang on to their top players as long as they can. Good in most cases for our players and recruiting, bad for our record.
UK seems to put winning at UK behind a lot of other things, look at the football program that our AD took from a pretty decent program to two TWO win seasons, back to back, the first time that happened at UK in all the years we have had a football program, since 1891.
Have you happened to see the picture of our "recruiting room", also known as our turnoff room, during that disaster? No real football improvement by our hero AD during his first DECADE in power. And the higher ups didn't have enough sense to realize that they were costing UK hundreds millions of dollars by running the football team into the ground to the tune of losing 20,000 season ticket holders (some replaced) from a team that averaged capacity with a bigger stadium with an exciting team in 2007, but one that had a losing record in the SEC. An exciting team with THREE four stars that played, all three from in state, that upset NC LSU. Florida's team when Joker took over had about fifty four star recruits and a dozen FIVE stars when we went to their home field to play with TWO four stars that played, offset by two walkons that started.
Look it up, I did.
Amazing FACTS to me.
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Definitely but 2015 was inexcusable. He got screwed 3 other times by a referee though.
I hate to tell you brother but surely you know that ship has sailed No way they can get him in this late. We won’t hear a no till the season starts to deflect negativity from admissions.
Man pre 2021 UK was favored every game they play in. Same goes for Duke and Kansas. All other power 5 schools aren't that way
Surely to God this day and time you don't still think cal pushes players away??!
There were about 2 cases in which he made some one stop talking about coming back, strictly because they were going top 5 in the draft. It's not like he made players leave. All kids want to make money and be a pro.
How can some of you people live in this world and not understand ?
He took makes his players better. To the tune of national player of the year a few times. SGA id say got better.... Herro ? PJ? IQ ?
It still doesn't excuse having a roster full of NBA first round dtaft picks and losing to a bunch of dudes that will be working at Arby's the next summer.
I mean, you can coumt on one hand the amount of guys made it to year 3 under Cal, so it's not far fetched.
Yea he created a culture in which kids wanted to come to and take the shortest route to the NBA. The kids that came back to kansas,UNC, Baylor would have left had they been 1st round picks.... now, after a few years here it started being kids that weren't just 1st round , I get that .... but he never made kids leave. That's insane. Why didn't he make poythress leave?! How bout willie? If he made kids leave they would have all left
So how many freshman filled teams have won it all? 2 ? And they weren't totally freshmen. You cant say it takes a mixture of upperclassmen one breathe and pound on the guy because he had the most talent the next... Talent doesn't equal good basketball,as we've seen....
Since 2015 Duke has led the talent field and they have that single title,.
I agree we've had some mediocre teams but so had everyone else. I guess some can jump ship to Kansas, they finally produced the past couple seasons
Since Cal has been here, UConn, Duke, and Villanova have won multiple titles despite having far fewer lottery picks. So no, not "everyone else."
Yeah, I won't argue that. I know he told Wall his scholarship was ripped up, so he had to leave, but that was a different situation.
What I think is happening is, the training at UK is extremely tough and these kids already have a one-and-done mindset when they get here. If after 2 years, they aren't NBA material, they bolt for something else. That’s what happens in this one-and-done culture. It's not what yiu would do.if your #1 goal was to ein national titles.
Kansas, uNC, Nova, UConn etc… have a different strategy. They’re culture is all about the school, program and team, so they're going after the 3 and 4 star kids that know they're coming in to stay until they're ready for the NBA, or their 4 years is up. That is the strategy that is working right now. 4 year players are simply better developed, they know how to use their bodies, they know how to get fouled, they can play in offenses that are more complicated and they've been through stressful situations that prepared them for the NCAAT.
NBA potential is just that, potential. Unless you have transcendent or generational kids, you're going to struggle. Hopefully Edwards and Wagner are legit transcendent players.
It's not just freshmen based 'teams', how many freshmen are you seeing in the FF… period? I think Villanova had 1 on their '16 title team (maybe Brunson?), but that's it.
The game changed in 2016, it's all about structured offenses, scoring, 3 point shooting and team play.
Our 2018 team had a slew of NBA talent, I think 8 future NBA players, including SGA, but that team never really did anything. They went 26-11 overall, 10-8 in the SEC (4th place) and only made the sweet 16 because they got Buffalo in the 2nd round instead of Arizona.
19 and 20 were much better squads, then '21 happened, again, a bunch of freshmen.
Looking at duke, their 2019 team had 2 transcendent kids and a generational talent. They declined throughout the year and after 3 straight narrow escspes in the NCAAT, finally lost to a veteran Michigan State squad.
It’s just not a recipe for winning in today’s game, it's great for NBA draft bragging rights and recruiting more NBA potential, but it’s not what you would do if winning titles is the goal.
What's worse is, this season will be the oldest college basketball has ever been and we're going to be extremely young.
I agree. If CCC really cared about winning another championship, he would have “tweaked” his strategy after 2012. He had enough players get to the NBA after one or two years in college, all he had to do was say “I can get you to the NBA in 1,2,3 or 4 years”. But since he doens’t care about winning championships and it’s about his NBA legacy, to hell with player development and experience; don’t need it if you don’t care about the winning the title every year. He pretty much admitted this in 2012, “Got this out of the way”.
My question to Cal would be:
"wouldn’t you get more satisfaction out of getting 3 and 4 star kids drafted? Kids that actually need help getting to the NBA? What is the satisfaction you get from getting 5* kids drafted? They were getting drafted no matter where they went to school."
He loves to brag about how many kids he put in the NBA, but damn, how many of those kids weren’t getting drafted if they went somewhere else? Tyler Herro was a 4*, but it was clear right away that he was severely underrated.
I didn't say it was wrong, and it probably helps recruiting. But I do think some other schools have an advantage from trying to keep their best players as long as they can.
see I think it's the exact opposite. If anything 2012 he can point to and say "hey see this works" why on earth would I ever tweak things.
That team was essentially made up of one lone senior, 4 freshmen and 2 2nd year guys.
I don't believe the notion the man doesn't care about winning titles or championships. He "may or may not" prioritize guys getting drafted over it.
Cal strikes me as a stubborn guy with a massive ego. I find it extremely hard to believe this guy doesn't care about winning championships. This was the same guy who talked about his goal of having an undefeated season and catching UCLA in titles.
He wouldn't have to tweak things if he had a generational player + a transcendent player + an NBA lockout every year that makes it so guys like Terrence Jones and Doron Lamb stay an extra year.
2012 is the definition of an outlier.
Oh of course he does, he definitely counts Sharpe. 100%. He’s obsessed with draft picks.
