Some wrong assumptions I think some may have about Pope’s offense next season

[megablue]

I said this in another thread and am starting to believe it more and more.

Now that Pope has so much more talent available to him, I think he’s trying to recreate the 96’ Cats type of team.

He’s bringing in defensive superstars from all over and try to mix them in with 3 point shooters. He’s going to play Rick Pitino in his prime type of basketball because he knows how to play and coach that type of basketball.

We’re going to go 8-9 deep, run, press, trap, and shoot 3’s.

It’s going to be glorious, I can feel it in my bones.

We may press and trap, but what team(s) in the country play that way now ?? I can’t think of any. Pitino has not played that way in decades.

 

[megablue]

Pope has always used a 5 out or 4 out offense with a ton of zoom action. He did some innovative things out of the zoom and I expect him to do the same at UK. I expect to see a ton of off the ball movement and cutting/screening, but that doesn’t mean we have to shoot half of our attempts from 3. We just need a couple capable guys who can keep the floor spaced.

I like his zoom action, but does he also employ “floppy” action ?? If we can both zoom and flop, combined with crisp passing, we could be an offense that gives every opposing coach headaches.

 

[Wildcat-in-STL]

I think some are going to be surprised because pope's offense leads to players taking spot up 3's.. and both Butler and Oweh were over 35% on spot up 3's., they were just both really bad at shooting when they had to create the 3pt shot for themselves.

 

[cats#1again]

You may very well be right based on the roster he’s building, but if so, it’s a risky pivot that I’m not sure I’m completely sold on. His BYU teams were actually pretty good considering how hard it is for them to get top talent, so I don’t really see why that style just with the athletes available to Kentucky wouldn’t have been a good starting point instead of immediately trying to morph into a Houston/Tennessee bully ball team.

I’m willing to see how it works before declaring Pope a failure, but you can’t really fault some fans for being confused that he seems to be trying to reinvent himself a bit before ever coaching a game in the style we were sold on after he was hired.

Don't forget to add UConn in that list. Oh wait a min, maybe he's looking to do what uconn does. Offense and defense.
UConn isn't talked about defensively because everyone sees their offense as special. UConn had been one of if not the best defensive teams the last 2 years.

 

[know1]

It's hard to believe that some people don't realize that a smart, motivated coach like Pope might actually be trying to improve on his results and systems all the time. He's taking what worked well and trying to improve on that and at the same time fixing the things that didn't. His "system" is likely an ever evolving process.

I guess I can understand that to a degree since we've had a coach forever that wasn't doing that so people forget.

 

[North Carolina Blue Wildcat]

If you watch his teams over the years, he has adjusted style of play to match the strengths of his team.

What’s common is that he is very innovative in his sets, his teams do a great job of creating space, and movement off the ball is constant. The days of dribble hand off at the top and GO offense are over.

 

[Cold Stout Beer]

There have been a couple repeated refrains I’ve heard from others that I think are based on some possible misunderstanding.

1. That he wants to be a major 3-point shooting team.

Mark Pope made some remarks at his introductory presser about how BYU was number 2 in some 3-point metric. He then said something about how at UK we don’t settle for second place. This, understandably, led many to believe he was saying he was aiming for UK to be number 1 in that metric. But if you listen to the next thing he said (sorry, I’m just going by recollection) it makes it more clear that he was using these examples from his BYU team to make general statements about expectations at UK. So, I think he meant that UK likes to be number 1 in general, not necessarily at that particular 3-point metric, and I think the wording was just a little clunky and confusing.

2. Pope will play the same type of offense he played at BYU.

There was a Lexington channel that had an interview with Pope a couple days after his presser and during the interview he said something to the effect of, being at UK he would be able to try some different things offensively than what he did at BYU.

So, I think anyone who believes that Pope is trying to play the same style he played at BYU and that he’s just missing on shooters is at least partially mistaken. I think he is adapting to the SEC and has a different plan for this team. I’m sure it will include some shooters, but it’s clearly defense/passing-focused first and foremost.

I think we finally have a guy that will build teams and play to the strengths of the team built that year and do what it takes to WIN. Cannot wait.

 

[DreadLox]

I’ve assumed Pope will continue to play the offense that he’s developed over the years. That’s one of the attractions of him as a coach.

I don’t think we know the reasons behind his choice of players or the qualities he sees in them or his plans for them. The idea that we would know individual players out of the thousands in college to determine if they fit his plans is really dicey.

I have had the time to watch 8 or so BYU games from last year to be able to get a sense of what Pope does. But to be able to do that with the dozens of players casually mentioned as targets? If you have more free time than me, you’re in jail.

I’m not predicting anything more than tomorrow will resemble today. And I haven’t put any money on it.

 

[Blue_2_the_bone]

I like his zoom action, but does he also employ “floppy” action ?? If we can both zoom and flop, combined with crisp passing, we could be an offense that gives every opposing coach headaches.

I can’t recall seeing them run floppy. That’s not to say they didn’t out of a timeout or for a single series. They do run an option from the zoom where instead of zooming it turns into a fade for the zoomer and the big rim runs back door. It serves the same purpose as floppy action except it keeps the lane clear.

 

[Kyhoward]

Pope has always used a 5 out or 4 out offense with a ton of zoom action. He did some innovative things out of the zoom and I expect him to do the same at UK. I expect to see a ton of off the ball movement and cutting/screening, but that doesn’t mean we have to shoot half of our attempts from 3. We just need a couple capable guys who can keep the floor spaced.

BYU also shot a lot of layups with players coming off 1 or 2 screens and cutting hard to the basket looking for a pass. This is where Aly Khalifa at BYU was so important in making this pass from the top of the key to a cutter. This is an overlooked component of the Zoom offense and creates open 3’s for others

I have watched numerous BYU games and would see a player driving wide open to the basket or a cutter getting a pass going to the basket and the defensive players still remained with their man instead of trying to slide over to challenge. Why? They were scared of a pass out to a 3 point shooter. The threat of a 3 point shot helps create dribble drives

My feeling is that this offense will be even more effective with players that are highly skilled basketball wise and better athletically than Pope had at BYU. Also few college programs run this offense, none in the SEC, so that will contribute to its effectiveness.

Agree that the 3 point shot will be a big part of Pope’s offense. But adding players that can see the floor, pass effectively, set screens, and make hard cuts to the basket will be the keys, IMO, to next years offensive success

 

[Rockfly78]

I said this in another thread and am starting to believe it more and more.

Now that Pope has so much more talent available to him, I think he’s trying to recreate the 96’ Cats type of team.

He’s bringing in defensive superstars from all over and try to mix them in with 3 point shooters. He’s going to play Rick Pitino in his prime type of basketball because he knows how to play and coach that type of basketball.

We’re going to go 8-9 deep, run, press, trap, and shoot 3’s.

It’s going to be glorious, I can feel it in my bones.

Wait, he doesn’t have “so much more talent available to him”. I mean, he has a handful of kids and they are not Uber talented. As a matter of fact they are less talented than we have had by a wide margin and that won’t change anytime soon.

Talent is not going to flock here because we are Kentucky. We have to let that notion go. Pope will have to recruit his tail off and use his NIL
Pot wisely. I love your positivity but I urge you to slow your roll or you’ll be let down. We are at a crossroads at the moment. This could be a .500 season. If pope really excels in finishing the roster then perhaps we can have a really nice season. But “glorious” is a lofty expectation

 

[jwphelps]

Cal ran an offense.

It was just so intricate and next level that only REAL fans and basketball gurus could see the adjustments he would make.

I know this because he told us all the time.

That is funny, good one.

 

[Blue_2_the_bone]

BYU also shot a lot of layups with players coming off 1 or 2 screens and cutting hard to the basket looking for a pass. This is where Aly Khalifa at BYU was so important in making this pass from the top of the key to a cutter. This is an overlooked component of the Zoom offense and creates open 3’s for others

I have watched numerous BYU games and would see a player driving wide open to the basket or a cutter getting a pass going to the basket and the defensive players still remained with their man instead of trying to slide over to challenge. Why? They were scared of a pass out to a 3 point shooter. The threat of a 3 point shot helps create dribble drives

My feeling is that this offense will be even more effective with players that are highly skilled basketball wise and better athletically than Pope had at BYU. Also few college programs run this offense, none in the SEC, so that will contribute to its effectiveness.

Agree that the 3 point shot will be a big part of Pope’s offense. But adding players that can see the floor, pass effectively, set screens, and make hard cuts to the basket will be the keys, IMO, to next years offensive success

Agree and that’s why I think he’ll stay with the 4 or 5 out. It opens those lanes. Almost all their two’s were right at the rim because of this.

 

[Bluegrassking]

That’s hard to do, Mike Anderson tried the same thing here. Players are a lot better handling the press because that’s all these AAU teams do, so I think it’s much harder to do the way both our programs used to. The breakdowns when the press gets broken outweigh the turnovers you create. Also you have to be super deep to even attempt it. Also the way the game is officiated makes it dang near impossible because SEC refs are so erratic with the whistles and want to insert themselves so much in the game your guards will have 3 fouls before the first TV timeout. That said it sure would be awesome because wasn’t that a beautiful brand of basketball to watch? We miss it too…

Relic from a different age at least against better teams.
Everyone has too many ball handlers so it mostly is just a change of pace/situational defense now and as likely to slow the game down as speed it up favorably.

Even Calipari teams have little to no issue breaking a press and he probably invested next to no time on it.

 

[DDMatUK=NBA]

Agree and that’s why I think he’ll stay with the 4 or 5 out. It opens those lanes. Almost all their two’s were right at the rim because of this.

Pitinos system was easy 2's or take the 3. If you shot with a toe on the line, you sat down.

 

[sluggercatfan]

Agree and that’s why I think he’ll stay with the 4 or 5 out. It opens those lanes. Almost all their two’s were right at the rim because of this.

Why Z was crazy for going with the used car salesman. Would have be perfect with MP.

 

[HymanKaplan]

I thought the entire point of being so dangerous from 3 at multiple positions, was to try and create mismatches, and open lanes for cutters to the basket. IOW to make the defense work and overplay.

(sorry, got ahead of myself, and didn't realize this was old news in this thread)

 

[FilsonCat]

I would be surprised if we full court press and trap. It is inefficient as a modern defense, aside from certain situations, and is risky because you can give up high percentage baskets pretty easily. Pope is an analytics guy at heart, and the press isn't as effective as it was in the 90s.

I do see us blitzing and trapping opponents out of the high ball screens, because it forces ball handlers to the wing instead of switching and allowing the drive. It is an adjustment that other SEC squads made last year, but Cal never even tried it.

I also expect us to throw up a 2-3 and 1-3-1 zone in certain segments to throw off opponents.

 

[The_Answer1313]

I think every coach has an identity.

If you have a kenpom sub it’s always interesting to log on and look at any coaches page. Typically coaches focus on the same things year in and year out. For so long under Cal we had dominant offensive rebounding teams. Sometimes at the risk of shooting figures not being great. We also didn’t prioritize turnovers on defense and preferred very much to not gamble

Pope will have his own profile. The great coaches take the philosophy and Taylor that to the strengths of the team itself.

One thing I will say about taking a bunch of 3s. Lots of random variation in 3s compared to 2s. That’s scary in a one and done tournament. It could work just it’s less consistent than I’d like. I don’t mind a team taking a bunch of 3s but I also hope our overall 2 pt fg% is good to fall back on if shots aren’t dropping.

Also need to have consistency. All four factors.
Shooting
Taking care of the ball
Rebounding
Getting to the line

You need to be good in at least two to have a really good offense. And conversely you need two of those on defense as well

 

[The_Answer1313]

I would be surprised if we full court press and trap. It is inefficient as a modern defense, aside from certain situations, and is risky because you can give up high percentage baskets pretty easily. Pope is an analytics guy at heart, and the press isn't as effective as it was in the 90s.

I do see us blitzing and trapping opponents out of the high ball screens, because it forces ball handlers to the wing instead of switching and allowing the drive. It is an adjustment that other SEC squads made last year, but Cal never even tried it.

I also expect us to throw up a 2-3 and 1-2-1 zone in certain segments to throw off opponents.

I feel like pressing works in spurts when it isn’t expected

Just watching teams that press often and force turnovers. I notice in the beginning of games it tends to work. Then teams eventually figure it out.

I feel like it’s something used when you need a run. But not as a primary defense

 

[yabbadabbadoo]

We have 9-10 players who are gonna deserve minutes IMO. It may end up being 11-12. You can play more erratic defense (presses) and gamble a bit more with this kind of depth. You can have better practices and more meaningful practices when this many players are fairly equal on a team. Having 6-7 rotational players and 4-5 guys who basically never play I always thought was kinda stupid.

I look for Pope to pressure a lot with the group he’s assembled. I think it’ll be fun and more importantly, I think it’ll be effective.

 

[FilsonCat]

I feel like pressing works in spurts when it isn’t expected

Just watching teams that press often and force turnovers. I notice in the beginning of games it tends to work. Then teams eventually figure it out.

I feel like it’s something used when you need a run. But not as a primary defense

I agree. The press is a situational defense, and probably only works against certain teams. It is a tool to have when you need it, but not something you want to run often.

 

[SemperFiCat]

I agree. The press is a situational defense, and probably only works against certain teams. It is a tool to have when you need it, but not something you want to run often.

That's exactly how I feel. Except, I'd like to use to more. More than not often. IF you have a team that can do it, at least fairly well, I'd like it for maybe 20% of a game, a few possesions at a time and see how it goes. I don't exactly remember the ratio of how often Rick ran it, but whatever it was seemed to be spot on. Again, it will depend on the personnel.

 

[MrHotDice]

I highly doubt we press.

I think the rule on hand checking hurt pressing style defense but things are changing and refs are now allowing more hand check. Body up defenders nowadays. I imagine you defend your style until the refs say you cant. Motion offense does the same thing that the press does, wear teams out over 40 minutes but their is nothing like Pitinos press. A thing of beauty.

 

[Bkocats]

It's hard to believe that some people don't realize that a smart, motivated coach like Pope might actually be trying to improve on his results and systems all the time. He's taking what worked well and trying to improve on that and at the same time fixing the things that didn't. His "system" is likely an ever evolving process.

I guess I can understand that to a degree since we've had a coach forever that wasn't doing that so people forget.

And that IMO is what will make him special
And in all honesty will make him more difficult to game plan for
CMP is about analytics, maximizing his talent and changing what is needed per game

It’s gonna be fun to watch

 

[sambowieshin]

23-24: 50% of BYU’s shot attempts = threes
22-23: 40%
21-22: 37%
20-21: 40%
19-20: 41%

Safe to say he’s still going to have an offense that likes to shoot from deep.

For comparison sake, this was us:

23-24: 37%
22-23: 30%
21-22: 28%
20-21: 32%
19-20: 26%

The average percentage of shots taken that are three point attempts in the NBA is approx 40 percent (39.2%). Pope's percentage is a little above that in prepping kids for the NBA style offense, but may have also been a reflection of the style he needed to compete at BYU. It will be interesting to see what he does with a deeper talent pool at UK.
The fact we were much more in line with that NBA stat last season explains why we were so fun to watch on offense. Unfortunately, our D sucked and Cal can't adjust whatsoever.

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As it celebrates its 75th anniversary season, the rise of the 3-pointer has launched the NBA into a new era.

www.nba.com

 

[The_Answer1313]

I agree. The press is a situational defense, and probably only works against certain teams. It is a tool to have when you need it, but not something you want to run often.

What I always find funny is when teams are down by a massive margin at the end of games and they try to do that. It tends to work quite well but always wayyyy too late lol.

 

[HymanKaplan]

I just think that the key to good defense is, as has been said, "changing defenses"

Good teams will adjust to what you're doing, so the logical answer is to randomly CHANGE what you're doing. That seems clear to ME anyway.

 

[CRZ4UK]

There have been a couple repeated refrains I’ve heard from others that I think are based on some possible misunderstanding.

1. That he wants to be a major 3-point shooting team.

Mark Pope made some remarks at his introductory presser about how BYU was number 2 in some 3-point metric. He then said something about how at UK we don’t settle for second place. This, understandably, led many to believe he was saying he was aiming for UK to be number 1 in that metric. But if you listen to the next thing he said (sorry, I’m just going by recollection) it makes it more clear that he was using these examples from his BYU team to make general statements about expectations at UK. So, I think he meant that UK likes to be number 1 in general, not necessarily at that particular 3-point metric, and I think the wording was just a little clunky and confusing.

2. Pope will play the same type of offense he played at BYU.

There was a Lexington channel that had an interview with Pope a couple days after his presser and during the interview he said something to the effect of, being at UK he would be able to try some different things offensively than what he did at BYU.

So, I think anyone who believes that Pope is trying to play the same style he played at BYU and that he’s just missing on shooters is at least partially mistaken. I think he is adapting to the SEC and has a different plan for this team. I’m sure it will include some shooters, but it’s clearly defense/passing-focused first and foremost.

He didn’t have Tennessee and Auburn, A&M grabbing and holding his players coming off screens at BYU. sEC officials are like no other league. Coach’s here teach fouling. Jumping into contact and placing a hand on a hip.Officials SHOULD call those things but no in the SEC.

 

[Kyhoward]

I just think that the key to good defense is, as has been said, "changing defenses"

Good teams will adjust to what you're doing, so the logical answer is to randomly CHANGE what you're doing. That seems clear to ME anyway.

Agree with your post Hyman
Not many teams press full court anymore, but there are different types of presses and different pressure that you may want to give the opponent. With a full court man-to-man you can apply token or aggressive pressure.

If the opponent lacks depth, especially ball handlers, either can be effective. Token pressure may not produce many turnovers but it helps to drain the shot clock and cause mental fatigue. Aggressive pressure could be used against an opponent with poor ball handlers looking for turnovers and easy baskets. “Changing defenses”, as you stated is the key to success. Press when they may not expect it. If you are primarily a man defense, use zone on occasion. Create uncertainty for the opposing coach and ball handlers running the offense which causes turnovers and creates chaos.

I played only in high school and was a point guard. You are setting up the offense, calling plays etc. If a team changes defense suddenly, panic can set in - what am I supposed to do! You become comfortable after a few possessions and they change defenses again. You are being put out of your comfort zone by not knowing what to expect. I know college guards are more experienced and much better players/athletes than I was but they are also playing against better players/athletes.

With our depth next year, it seems on paper anyhow, that we have 10 potential players that could truly contribute, no water boys. And a few more probably on the way. I would think that no college guard would relish Lamont Butler pressing full court for 15-20 minutes a game! A press can create physical and mental fatigue leading to perhaps a few additional turnovers per game. Mix the half court man-to-man, token or aggressive full court man, with an occasional zone and the opponent has a lot to prepare for when game days comes.

 

[megablue]

I would be surprised if we full court press and trap. It is inefficient as a modern defense, aside from certain situations, and is risky because you can give up high percentage baskets pretty easily. Pope is an analytics guy at heart, and the press isn't as effective as it was in the 90s.

I do see us blitzing and trapping opponents out of the high ball screens, because it forces ball handlers to the wing instead of switching and allowing the drive. It is an adjustment that other SEC squads made last year, but Cal never even tried it.

I also expect us to throw up a 2-3 and 1-2-1 zone in certain segments to throw off opponents.

I think bringing Perry’s Dad in to teach the 1-2-2 trapping zone in half-court sets would be worthwhile. It would be a nice zone option to have. Anyone who saw Lyon County play couldn’t help but be impressed with their zone defense.