POLITICAL THREAD

[Teachable Moe]

Great, another disingenuous liberal that asks rathole questions but never answers basic ones. No wonder deeee likes all your posts. And lol at "stout assertion", good lord that screams fanboy.

You asked a question I answered. Expansion of amnesty by EO is a liberal position. So is single payer. Like I said, your party is moving left, and she will go the way the wind blows, there is not an authentic bone in her body. The Chamber supports anmnesty for cheap labor, it suppresses wages and crowds low-end school.....and as we see all the talk about caring about the poor by the left is just populistic window dressing. It is good a few people on the right refuses to go along.

I've no idea why you want to dip into personalities. I presume EO means Everyone's Opinion. But I have a hard time squaring that with the number of employers who want it. "Everyone" doesn't really cover the territory. Employers. Chamber of Commerce. These are bastions of liberalism? It sounds like there are lots of people who aren't on the left who favor amnesty. So, I get confused. If amnesty is supported by people on the right and left, how is it a left position? Is amnesty a fringe position or a majority position?

Single payer would be the most rational method of dispensing health care. Why that is considered "liberal" is beyond me. The governments of Great Britain, Canada, and Australia are considered conservative and you'd get burst ear drums from the laughter of their office holders if you talked about getting rid of it. Why? Because it's cheaper and provides better health outcomes.

 

[Teachable Moe]

Below is a few comments that are concerning moderate democrats about Hillary.

"After positioning herself as a centrist and steely potential commander in chief in the 2008 Democratic primary, Clinton has shifted.
Clinton is now to the left of President Obama on the federal minimum wage. While Obama has endorsed a $10.10 hourly rate, Clinton has signaled support for more than doubling it, to $15 an hour.
The former first lady says same-sex marriage should be a constitutional right and endorsed Obama’s executive action shielding millions of illegal immigrants from deportation. She wants broad reform of a criminal justice system."

Great. Why is any of that a concern? Minimum wage hasn't kept up with productivity or inflation. Most people support the right of gays to marry. And there are embarrassing failures in our criminal justice system. (Just ask Rand Paul.) I take it these things unleash your brain spiders. Ask you kids. I don't think they sound horrible to them.

 

[warrior-cat]

More proof below. It is rankings for left of center senators based on their voting records.

And when we do this for the period in which Hillary Clinton was in the Senate, here's what we get:

attribution: voteview.com
As it turns out, with a first-dimension score of -0.391 based upon her entire service in Congress, Hillary Clinton was the 11th most liberal member of the Senate in each of the 107th, 108th, 109th, and 110th Congresses. That places her slightly to the left of Pat Leahy (-0.386), Barbara Mikulski (-0.385) and Dick Durbin (-0.385); clearly to the left of Joe Biden (-0.331) and Harry Reid (-0.289); and well to the left of moderate Democrats like Jon Tester (-0.230), Blanche Lincoln (-0.173), and Claire McCaskill (-0.154).

 

[warrior-cat]

Great. Why is any of that a concern? Minimum wage hasn't kept up with productivity or inflation. Most people support the right of gays to marry. And there are embarrassing failures in our criminal justice system. (Just ask Rand Paul.) I take it these things unleash your brain spiders. Ask you kids. I don't think they sound horrible to them.

As far as the minimum wage, it is apparent that you do not understand the effect it will have on the economy and businesses. But none of the really matters because as you stated earlier about others, you too will not have your mind changed because of your leanings.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Opposition to the flag is of long standing.
Gun laws obsess a small part of society. (But they're really obsessed and don't understand the bulk of society's indifference.)
Few people pay attention to speeches.
Some Republican politicos joined in the flag issue early -- not, depressingly, the announced candidates for president-- and, in Romney's case, helped to catalyze the movement.
The racist aspect of the murders themselves were the impetus for the vast majority

I point these things out not to convince you otherwise but for people who haven't been paying attention. All 3 of you. Studies have shown that people can't be reasoned out of positions that they haven't reasoned themselves into.

There's a whole lot of belly-achin' going on among people who claim that they're indifferent to the issue.

Long standing opposition by whom? Some small groups. Until Obama whiffed on "tougher gun laws", the average American never even thought about that stupid flag, one way or another.

Of course they all jumped on it and rode the wave of public opinion. Thats my main complaint. Noone cared, until it became popular to hate the flag. Then many jumped on the bandwagon.

I also find it ironic the party of tolerance and inclusion, only holds these views when you agree with them. Want to burn or stomp the US flag? Oh thats just freedom of expression. Fly a confederate flag? Thats hate and racism.

 

[Deeeefense]

As far as the minimum wage, it is apparent that you do not understand the effect it will have on the economy and businesses..

Neither do you. Areas where the minimum wage has been increased result in lower unemployment rates down the road. The immediate, short term effect of a hike can be a small increase in unemployment, but the longer term effect is lower unemployment becasue the added money in the economy gets SPENT which is good for folks selling stuff, who then hire more folks, who then spend more money with folks that sell stuff, who then hire more folks, and. . . well you get the idea. What a novel economic concept

The issue of minimum wage could easily be resolved by congress by passing a simple bill that would first bring the wage up to historical levels and second index it to inflation so that it would automatically rise or fall depending on the inflation index. Then they would never again have to argue, debate or pass more bills regarding min wage. But I guess that would be asking too much of the do-nothing congress.

 

[warrior-cat]

Neither do you. Areas where the minimum wage has been increased result in lower unemployment rates down the road. The immediate, short term effect of a hike can be a small increase in unemployment, but the longer term effect is lower unemployment becasue the added money in the economy gets SPENT which is good for folks selling stuff, who then hire more folks, who then spend more money with folks that sell stuff, who then hire more folks, and. . . well you get the idea. What a novel economic concept

The issue of minimum wage could easily be resolved by congress by passing a simple bill that would first bring the wage up to historical levels and second index it to inflation so that it would automatically rise or fall depending on the inflation index. Then they would never again have to argue, debate or pass more bills regarding min wage. But I guess that would be asking too much of the do-nothing congress.

You have no idea yourself. You just spout left talking points as you agree with them. An immediate hike from current to $15 plus and hour would kill many businesses. A slower more moderate increase over a period of years would be better for everyone. I am not against an increase to that eventually but, I think it should be eased into instead of lumped in.

 

[ukdesi]

Neither do you. Areas where the minimum wage has been increased result in lower unemployment rates down the road. The immediate, short term effect of a hike can be a small increase in unemployment, but the longer term effect is lower unemployment becasue the added money in the economy gets SPENT which is good for folks selling stuff, who then hire more folks, who then spend more money with folks that sell stuff, who then hire more folks, and. . . well you get the idea. What a novel economic concept

The issue of minimum wage could easily be resolved by congress by passing a simple bill that would first bring the wage up to historical levels and second index it to inflation so that it would automatically rise or fall depending on the inflation index. Then they would never again have to argue, debate or pass more bills regarding min wage. But I guess that would be asking too much of the do-nothing congress.

Is that really true? (I don't know I'm asking). If you had 10 people who made $5/hr, but then min wage was raised to $10/hour, and the company cut 5 people to keep costs at the same level, then your result would be:

--5 people who are unemployed and now spend less and are disgruntled
--5 people who make more and spend more, but has their work load doubled and some who are possibly unhappy with the trade off of increased work vs more money
--net effect on the economy would be zero then with 5 people spending less and 5 spending more

 

[fuzz77]

Your post is full hypocrisy because, Hillary is far left (wing nut) and it is who you are voting for. That and your attack on the RNC and not just the fringe. Enjoy the next 8 years as we continue to be torn apart.

It takes two to tear something apart. One side or the other always has the option of going along, especially after they have lost the battle. You yourself continue to attack Dee, FTS and myself and others who agree with me...are you not trying to "tear us apart"? Tell me what the GOP is trying to do to reach out and work with the President?

And like S&C, you have no clue as to what is "far left" nor is Hillary there. Funny that Bernie Sanders who is actually ON the far left is criticizing Hillary for not being enough of a liberal. How could he do so if Hillary was already on the far left?

 

[Teachable Moe]

As far as the minimum wage, it is apparent that you do not understand the effect it will have on the economy and businesses. But none of the really matters because as you stated earlier about others, you too will not have your mind changed because of your leanings.

Warnings of doom always attend increases in the minimum wage. They never come true.

 

[Teachable Moe]

Long standing opposition by whom? Some small groups. Until Obama whiffed on "tougher gun laws", the average American never even thought about that stupid flag, one way or another.

Of course they all jumped on it and rode the wave of public opinion. Thats my main complaint. Noone cared, until it became popular to hate the flag. Then many jumped on the bandwagon.

I also find it ironic the party of tolerance and inclusion, only holds these views when you agree with them. Want to burn or stomp the US flag? Oh thats just freedom of expression. Fly a confederate flag? Thats hate and racism.

Which isn't the issue at all. The issue is the government endorsing the Confederate flag. That has been repeated a few times, but you might have missed that.

 

[Teachable Moe]

More proof below. It is rankings for left of center senators based on their voting records.

And when we do this for the period in which Hillary Clinton was in the Senate, here's what we get:

attribution: voteview.com
As it turns out, with a first-dimension score of -0.391 based upon her entire service in Congress, Hillary Clinton was the 11th most liberal member of the Senate in each of the 107th, 108th, 109th, and 110th Congresses. That places her slightly to the left of Pat Leahy (-0.386), Barbara Mikulski (-0.385) and Dick Durbin (-0.385); clearly to the left of Joe Biden (-0.331) and Harry Reid (-0.289); and well to the left of moderate Democrats like Jon Tester (-0.230), Blanche Lincoln (-0.173), and Claire McCaskill (-0.154).

You can find the left most anything. Half of all doctors were in the bottom half of their medical school class.

 

[Deeeefense]

An immediate hike from current to $15 plus and hour would kill many businesses. A slower more moderate increase over a period of years would be better for everyone. I am not against an increase to that eventually but, I think it should be eased into instead of lumped in.

I agree 100%

 

[krazykats]

Minimum wage isn't supposed to be a livable wage! It's supposed to be the minimum allowed to employ, so if you want more work for it.

What is wrong with this country that everyone thinks everything should be easy?

 

[moe#8]

Claire Mccaskill is no centrist. Her voting record speaks for itself.

I am sorry, the Democratic party is nothing but super far left extremist. It's not deniable. And its easy to understand why.

It's the party of minority vote herding. Regular folks who still support them vote on party name affiliation and don't understand the Democratic party of today has ZERO in common with lots of their beliefs. They are stuck in a political fight from 1985.

bingo

 

[Teachable Moe]

Minimum wage isn't supposed to be a livable wage! It's supposed to be the minimum allowed to employ, so if you want more work for it.

What is wrong with this country that everyone thinks everything should be easy?

Living on a minimum wage is easy? Really? Minimum Wage is a different animal from Living Wage, btw.

The purchasing power of the minimum wage (according to wiki) hit its peak in 1968 when it was around 10.15 [quoted from memory] in today's dollars. Lots of jobs in 1968. Since then productivity of labor has increased while the purchasing power of the minimum wage has fallen. Something is out of whack.

Wiki reports that the minimum wage in 1968 was 1.60/hr but that wasn't true for all jobs and isn't true for all jobs today. I know my wage back then was $1.15/hr. I was a clerk/stock room in retail and have no idea why I made so much less than the minimum.

 

[krazykats]

My point is your goal shouldn't be minimum wage so it should be low enough to motivate people to EARN more. People want more than $7.50 an hour to say "do you want fries with that"? F that, get up off your ass and go earn.

My 16 yr old niece makes min wage, works the 40 hours and brings home a couple hundred a week. At 16 that's good, min wage is perfectly fine where it is.

 

[Teachable Moe]

My point is your goal shouldn't be minimum wage so it should be low enough to motivate people to EARN more. People want more than $7.50 an hour to say "do you want fries with that"? F that, get up off your ass and go earn.

My 16 yr old niece makes min wage, works the 40 hours and brings home a couple hundred a week. At 16 that's good, min wage is perfectly fine where it is.

Glad she can get by on that. We disagree. That's life. I think workers should have enjoyed the fruits of their increase in productivity all along.

 

[CatsFanGG24]

1st time workers and part time high schoolers (target market for minimum wage) haven't increased productivity. They do what the millions of kids before them have done, and most of them move on.

For those that don't move on, hopefully they work hard enough to move up to day/night manager...then they get that big raise.

 

[Teachable Moe]

'

hopefully they work hard enough to move up to day/night manager...then they get that big raise.

Funy stuff.

 

[WayneDougan]

Glad she can get by on that. We disagree. That's life. I think workers should have enjoyed the fruits of their increase in productivity all along.

The fruits of their labor is in all the stuff they can buy today that they couldn't buy in 1968.

 

[warrior-cat]

It takes two to tear something apart. One side or the other always has the option of going along, especially after they have lost the battle. You yourself continue to attack Dee, FTS and myself and others who agree with me...are you not trying to "tear us apart"? Tell me what the GOP is trying to do to reach out and work with the President?

And like S&C, you have no clue as to what is "far left" nor is Hillary there. Funny that Bernie Sanders who is actually ON the far left is criticizing Hillary for not being enough of a liberal. How could he do so if Hillary was already on the far left?

Her voting record according to the chart says otherwise. Funny how you now take the word of a person who probably does not like her and make it your fact.

 

[warrior-cat]

nm

 

[qwesley]

I've no idea why you want to dip into personalities. I presume EO means Everyone's Opinion. But I have a hard time squaring that with the number of employers who want it. "Everyone" doesn't really cover the territory. Employers. Chamber of Commerce. These are bastions of liberalism? It sounds like there are lots of people who aren't on the left who favor amnesty. So, I get confused. If amnesty is supported by people on the right and left, how is it a left position? Is amnesty a fringe position or a majority position?

Single payer would be the most rational method of dispensing health care. Why that is considered "liberal" is beyond me. The governments of Great Britain, Canada, and Australia are considered conservative and you'd get burst ear drums from the laughter of their office holders if you talked about getting rid of it. Why? Because it's cheaper and provides better health outcomes.

Are you actually so purposefully dense you can't identify amnesty as a liberal/dem position? We really need to debate that? Read a little, Think Progess and Slate (and weed likely) are rotting your cognitive abilities. EO is executive order....ie liberal expansion of executive powers.

Single payer is a liberal position IN THIS COUNTRY. We really need to debate that? Role of govt view aside, anyone that looks at the VA, ACA, OPM, IRS, etal and is able to declare they are comfortable with ceding all healthcare mgt to them, has achieved a level of myopia Jim Jones would envy.

It is interesting, in a dog humping a football way, watching concurrent arguments of pro amnesty, raising min wage, and govt ran healthcare. Illegals are suppressing wages, crowding poor schools and taking valuable resources, and are a drain on the hospital systems.....all shrugged off whilst playing dumb since they are the next large predictable voting block.

 

[qwesley]

Have we given El Chappo amnesty yet? That rascal could bundle some serious cash for the DNC

 

[qwesley]

It takes two to tear something apart. One side or the other always has the option of going along, especially after they have lost the battle. You yourself continue to attack Dee, FTS and myself and others who agree with me...are you not trying to "tear us apart"? Tell me what the GOP is trying to do to reach out and work with the President?

And like S&C, you have no clue as to what is "far left" nor is Hillary there. Funny that Bernie Sanders who is actually ON the far left is criticizing Hillary for not being enough of a liberal. How could he do so if Hillary was already on the far left?

Mitch and Bohner worked very closely with him on TPP.

Even Dem operatives are talking about HRC moving left. She will go where the money is, the far left.

Some of you need to use technology to take in more news and from diverse choices. The ignorance is sad. No wonder someone as unethical as HRC can get by with not having to speak on anything and be the de facto nominee.

 

[.S&C.]

Congratulations lefties.

Take down one flag and now there's thousands of them flying where previously they weren't. lol progressives. They don't understand unintended consequences.

Her voting record according to the chart say otherwise. Funny how you now take the word of a person who probably does not like her and make it your fact.

HIllary Clinton supports extreme legislation nearly across the board. There are ZERO moderate democrats that have any influence in that cesspool party. The republican party is the only party of individual thought but thanks to the media the conservatives have been negatively branded. Just imagine if a conservative white man had the issues Clinton has with her ongoing scandal after scandal. She wouldn't get off the ground. But of course, liberals will once again move to divisive politics exploiting women for their own self interest. We are seeing this with the plantation mentality of the liberal party toward minorities. liberals OWN the problems in the inner cities. They OWN it. It's all theirs.

Bury your heads firmly in the sand and play the game. The country is in chaos, and running wild with liars and corruption in our political system, and thats why liberals are the best at this. They are the most corrupt, and they are guaranteeing the country away for votes.

They are disgusting.

 

[.S&C.]

Are you actually so purposefully dense you can't identify amnesty as a liberal/dem position? We really need to debate that? Read a little, Think Progess and Slate (and weed likely) are rotting your cognitive abilities. EO is executive order....ie liberal expansion of executive powers.

Single payer is a liberal position IN THIS COUNTRY. We really need to debate that? Role of govt view aside, anyone that looks at the VA, ACA, OPM, IRS, etal and is able to declare they are comfortable with ceding all healthcare mgt to them, has achieved a level of myopia Jim Jones would envy.

It is interesting, in a dog humping a football way, watching concurrent arguments of pro amnesty, raising min wage, and govt ran healthcare. Illegals are suppressing wages, crowding poor schools and taking valuable resources, and are a drain on the hospital systems.....all shrugged off whilst playing dumb since they are the next large predictable voting block.

He's a far out loon. People like him are the only real problem left. I've never seen more racism in my life than what we are seeing out of the democratic party right now. Paying off elitist blacks to keep the rest in line for the party agenda when CLEARLY these policies are NOT working in these areas.

Illegal immigration amnesty will do more to set the black population back than anything since jim crow, but the liberals could care less. It will ensure national elections in the future.

Wake up America. You are being sold out for voting blocks. Why would we want to bring in all those unemployed when we can't even employ OUR OWN. Voter blocks.

Good grief some of you are far too smart to be this stupid.

 

[CatsFanGG24]

Funy stuff.

You can be a manager at a White Castle or a Denny's and make mid 30ks with benefits...look into it, could be a nice move for you.

 

[.S&C.]

You can be a manager at a White Castle or a Denny's and make mid 30ks with benefits...look into it, could be a nice move for you.

He'd have to work. The point is to make everyone dependent so everyone thinks the same toward a welfare system of government. He's a product of indoctrination and he doesnt even know it. There was a time when Americans knew better than this communist bullshit.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Which isn't the issue at all. The issue is the government endorsing the Confederate flag. That has been repeated a few times, but you might have missed that.

That isnt the issue. Otherwise, wed have seen it all over the news/social media every day for the last 50 years. Instead, it was a non-issue to be 99% of americans until Obama and Co needed a fall back social issue after the admin discovered their tougher gun laws push wouldve actually been an embarrassment.

 

[.S&C.]

That isnt the issue. Otherwise, wed have seen it all over the news/social media every day for the last 50 years. Instead, it was a non-issue to be 99% of americans until Obama and Co needed a fall back social issue after the admin discovered their tougher gun laws push wouldve actually been an embarrassment.

I mean, this is as close to a fact as it gets. The gun issue wasn't moving, because it essentially worked AGAINST the liberals. Their argument has always been one of "semi-auto rifle" bans. They confuse the entire electorate about what a fully automatic weapon is, claim we all just need a point and shoot handgun, and act as if handguns are the answer when in fact its just an argument to lead to the banning of all firearms. The reason for that, is because they own liberal policies in gun riddled neighborhoods and they know they have no policy answers to defeat it. You can't pander AND set wrongs right. But of course, they can't admit that. So start banning something, lol. See if those damning STATISTICS that belong to them can come down somehow.

If this sick kid had used a semi automatic "RIFLE" and killed only 4 , this would be made an even bigger issue than it is. That's how they play.

I thought you couldn't kill as many people with a handgun?

9 PEOPLE KILLED. 9 people killed. HANDGUN

They knew this was a losing proposition, so they moved on. Again, they are vile. They exploit people in their most vulnerable (lots of times women and minorities), and use it as political leverage. They are just great at buying people off and convincing the media they have noble intentions.

 

[Mojocat]

I rarely watch local news. I'd heard we might have pretty damaging storms tomorrow in Louisville, so I flipped over to WDRB to hear that. After the weather, I hear this:

"Coming up, the KKK rallies behind the Confederate Flag. Find out why one member says that doesn't make him a racist."

I started to count the ways in which that was laugh out loud funny, but gave up.....

 

[jamo0001]

Ok yeah, 0% chance I read through even a fraction of that drivel posted while I was out of town. The block function is so GD tempting sometimes.

 

[fuzz77]

Mitch and Bohner worked very closely with him on TPP.

Even Dem operatives are talking about HRC moving left. She will go where the money is, the far left.

Some of you need to use technology to take in more news and from diverse choices. The ignorance is sad. No wonder someone as unethical as HRC can get by with not having to speak on anything and be the de facto nominee.

7 years into it and you can name 1 piece of legislation that was pretty universally objected to by most all the Democrats in Washington.
Yes, having Sanders in the race will require HRC to move left, just like how any centrist GOP candidate must move right for their primary.
But how could HRC go left if she was already "far left" as you guys have been saying?

 

[Bill Cosby]

Ok yeah, 0% chance I read through even a fraction of that drivel posted while I was out of town. The block function is so GD tempting sometimes.

Amen. I tried to skim some of it and just gave up.

I think I saw an argument for a minimum wage increase again. Even though (it's been a while, but I'm pretty sure I researched the stats at one point) the vast majority of people who actually work for minimum wage are high school and college students. So I guess it's good we're once again back to that minimum wage talking point now that an election is nearing. Let's make small business owners start overpaying the unskilled immature high school students that are manning the cash registers up front.

Also, are people really arguing the "center" in this country hasn't shifted significantly left? Isn't it fairly common for people on both sides of the aisle to say something along the lines of "JFK would be a Republican today". The problem is the people who are radically left, but view themselves as moderates. And we all know the delusional people in this country I'm talking about.

 

[Bill Cosby]

Raising the minimum wage sounds good if you've never worked in/owned a small business with employees. That's really all there is to it.

Let's say your retail business is open 75 hours a week. A $5 per hour increase in minimum wage is $375 per week plus the payroll taxes you pay on top of that. So, assuming you're paying all your employees minimum wage, that's going to be over $20,000 extra per year to have your store staffed by one single employee while open.

I'm sure all your local mom and pop shops can afford to pay some high school kids $20,000 more to sit around and text between mindlessly ringing customers out on a cash register.

(And this example assumes people are actually paying their employees minimum wage, which is almost certainly not the case.)

 

[fuzz77]

Raising the minimum wage sounds good if you've never worked in/owned a small business with employees. That's really all there is to it.

Let's say your retail business is open 75 hours a week. A $5 per hour increase in minimum wage is $375 per week plus the payroll taxes you pay on top of that. So, assuming you're paying all your employees minimum wage, that's going to be over $20,000 extra per year to have your store staffed by one single employee while open.

I'm sure all your local mom and pop shops can afford to pay some high school kids $20,000 more to sit around and text between mindlessly ringing customers out on a cash register.

(And this example assumes people are actually paying their employees minimum wage, which is almost certainly not the case.)

So won't mom and pop's competition all have the same issue?

 

[qwesley]

Essentially, "She isn't as far left as an avowed socialist thus she is practically a centrist" ------ brilliant reasoning. Meanwhile the GOP has nominated two straight moderates despite the narrative that the party is controlled by angry, snake-handling, evangelists.

This isn't about moving for the primary, the DNC is funded and controlled by the very liberal sect of the party. Good lord, look what congresspeople lost their jobs in 2010 and 2014, and at significant margins of defeat. These "squirrel" narratives like minimum wage work in POTUS elections unfortunately though.

Also playing fuzzyq's game....7 years in, name one time BO has compromised or sat down in earnest and worked with the GOP. He is a constant campaigner above negotiating with the enemy, that is why he highly favors use of EO. When the Dems lost the house in 2010, no one in the WH even had Boehner's phone number to call him.

 

[CatsFanGG24]

So won't mom and pop's competition all have the same issue?

What is the point here? That they all would start struggling more, so its Ok?...or that since they and their competitors would all have to raise prices, the consumer is the one getting hit?