POLITICAL THREAD

[.S&C.]

The flag was brought out of retirement in the 50s to put symbolic muscle into Jim Crow and to use the power of the state to intimidate people who were fighting for their rights. That's just the long and the short of it. Maybe the 50s are ancient history to some of you but you'd have to be awfully young to be ignorant of why that flag got flown when and where it did. The "heritage" it represented was putting people in their place.

This spring and summer, after months of people getting shot and killed by officers of the law, after a kid decided to try to start a race war by killing innocent people, and after 10 or so Republican candidates for the PRESIDENCY were too scared to denounce racist murders, public sentiment crystallized around this way of saying "Enough is enough." It isn't the end all or be all of public life. It doesn't cure cancer. It's a first step to push our politics back from a dismaying brink. Whoever wants to keep pushing toward that brink, well, that's life, ain't it?

You are disgusting. Post the statistics on those "police killings". I'd rather discuss the liberal stronghold on these communities and how much of a failure your kind are. You don't want to come close to the truth here.

You are misleading and you are the biggest part of the problem. Stop your incredibly dangerous propaganda. If it weren't for the police do you have a clue how many more black kids wouldn't have a parent? Or how many more black kids would be dead? You sit there in your comfy white neighborhood. If it were reversed, you'd be in the corner crying screaming for the law to save your ass.

The only real racist that have any pull whatsoever in todays world, are your kind, the promoters of low expectation racism which is the largest problem our country faces today.

 

[WSU/UKfan]

I don't agree with you, but thank you for the semi-tolerant position.

I will say however, it doesn't make them ignorant, It makes them have a differing opinion than you. The flag has been politicized.

The history of the flag isn't an opinion. Those who think it wasn't a symbol of racism are ignorant to the facts.

 

[Teachable Moe]

I couldn't agree more great post.

The Good Old Days.

You are disgusting. Post the statistics on those "police killings". I'd rather discuss the liberal stronghold on these communities and how much of a failure your kind are. You don't want to come close to the truth here.

You are misleading and you are the biggest part of the problem. Stop your incredibly dangerous propaganda. If it weren't for the police do you have a clue how many more black kids wouldn't have a parent? Or how many more black kids would be dead? You sit there in your comfy white neighborhood. If it were reversed, you'd be in the corner crying screaming for the law to save your ass.

The only real racist that have any pull whatsoever in todays world, are your kind, the promoters of low expectation racism which is the largest problem our country faces today.

Sorry that you want to get into individual personalities since we've never met.

I don't know why you put scare quotes around police killings, or why you think I have low expectations of anyone. You've never asked me what I think. How on earth would you even imagine that you knew? In these online political discussions I never know whom I'm talking to. For instance, some people from the right seem anti-police but don't flinch about all the paramilitary weapons that these small forces have acquired. Super-patriots turn out to be tub-thumpers who worry about Jade Helm and such. And on and on. It's like hearing "There is no Dana. There is only Zool." Do you think I know what your own views are on these issues?

As for "real racist", as I type this, Donald Trump -- due to his vile nativist rants -- is either #1 or #2 in the Republican clown car presidential race.

 

[Catfan in Tn.]

Washington DC is a sanctuary city? Interesting. I propose that be it a park, school, highway or any kind of building named after Robert Byrd, his name must be removed.

 

[Deeeefense]

I respect it.

The Democratic party has been taken over by extreme far left ideologues. Don't believe me? Where are all the moderate democrats? Where are their versions of Jeb Bush, John Kasich, Lindsey Graham or even Rand Paul who pretty much has a leftist philosophy regarding foreign policy. Where are the liberal centrist?

Both parties have moved further towards their Right/Left bases which is why we have so much polarization in Congress. I blame Gerrymandering of Congressional districts for a lot of that, which is now being looked at seriously by the courts.

I'll give you a couple of names of the better known center/left Democrats - Jim Webb, Clair McCaskill

 

[ukalumni00]

"Clown Car" GOP race. Coming from a supporter of a party that gave us Obama and Joe Biden and now is propping Hilary Clinton. Please...

 

[dezyDeco]

As for "real racist", as I type this, Donald Trump -- due to his vile nativist rants -- is either #1 or #2 in the Republican clown car presidential race.

There's no doubt Trump likes to make the headlines... but, hey, sugar-coating the issue sure hasn't accomplished anything. Would you have been more receptive to his message if he had stated it--- something like this:

(Pardon me--- if these quotes have already been posted.)


“Our borders have overflowed with illegal immigrants placing tremendous burdens on our criminal justice system, schools and social programs. The Immigration and Naturalization Service needs the ability to step up enforcement. “Our federal wallet is stretched to the limit by illegal aliens getting welfare, food stamps, medical care and other benefits often without paying any taxes. “Safeguards like welfare and free medical care are in place to boost Americans in need of short-term assistance. These programs were not meant to entice freeloaders and scam artists from around the world.” – –Harry Reid (he is/was kind of a big deal in the Lib-Dem Machine, btw)

 

[Rex Kwon Do]

I blame Gerrymandering of Congressional districts for a lot of that

Sure, it's on the list, I guess. Just another look there, not here tactic. I mean, you blame gerrymandering for a lot of the polarization in congress? Only been around since the early 1800's....fresh topic! Those jabroni's get voted in every 2 or 6 years by the peeps last time I checked. Wonder how the people got so divided when being purposely divided at every possible turn?

I'll take a stab...modern polarization coupled with the advent of the 'net by Al Gore started with the impeachment of Clinton by Republicans. SEA I CAN CRITISIZE THE RIGHTS!

Follow that up with Bush stolt the election / Bush did 9/11 / Bush tax cuts for rich / Bush blood for oil but we didn't get the oil / Bush housing recession that started under Clinton via Barney Frank but Bush did it / Bush strangling David Carradine during sex / Obama elected to heal the earth and give $2500 to every family / Obama *literally* jamming Obecare down America's throat (I mean, the people of Mass voted an R into Ted F*cking Kennedy's seat to stop it) / Obama intervening in *multiple* legal cases of individuals in unprecedented fashion (hey, nothing like the weight of the POTUS against you whilst being innocent until proven guilty) / Obes generally breaking every promise imaginable while dramatically increasing executive power in the least transparent admin of all time (impressive, considering this is the most transparent society ever)

You guys can fill in the rest. It's exhausting. It's exhausting, the list of things above gerrymandering that have polarized congress.

One more thing, pretty solid use of Jim Webb and Clair(e) McCaskill as the most well known centrist Democrats. Two people with less name recognition nationally than a Doritos Locos taco.

 

[Rex Kwon Do]

Btw, say what you want about Trump (and y'all clearly have) but this is the first time topics have been played on the Democrat side of the field in forever. Maybe Rand Paul firing back at the media to ask Debbie WS why its OK to kill a 7 pound baby in utero. Hell, Republicans are generally content to play every snap on their own 5 yard line with their asses against the wall. Some of the biggest pussies on the planet. There's a few more topics I wouldn't mind Trump broaching before he goes back to his hole, the Republican field (sans RP I guess) sure isn't going to do it.

D's having to explain and defend sanctuary cities is pretty spectacular, imo. They should have to explain and defend *ALL* the crap they do. If it takes a ridiculous comb over to do it, so be it.

 

[dezyDeco]

/ Bush strangling David Carradine during sex /

.

I'm telling you--- I'll be laughing all day on that one!

(everything else was great, too)

 

[Deeeefense]

Obama *literally* jamming Obecare down America's throat (I mean, the people of Mass voted an R into Ted F*cking Kennedy's seat to stop it) /

The people of Mass? The same Mass that voted for an almost identical plan on a state level?

Scott Brown was a centrist pub that ran a very good campaign against a flawed candidate. He had a good message, a positive persona and outworked his opponent. His election to the Senate had nothing to do with the ACA. The Bill had already passed and the cleanup work on funding was done on simple majority basis thereafter

 

[qwesley]

The TTFMO (Tennessee Triumvirate of Faux Moderate Obamatwats) considers themselves centrists so pls keep that in mind when one of the members uses that phrase. I would more trust Willy's gauge of hotness at 3am after a dozen fireballs.

Also interesting that Moe finds Trump racist now, the guy has been a lifelong liberal in general.

 

[qwesley]

As Rex said, it is exhausting. Via the NYT, quoting Jim GD Webb. Correcting deeeees insufferable bullshit and lies is why he blocks me and others:


The election left Democrats in Congress scrambling to salvage a bill overhauling the nation’s health care system, which the late Mr. Kennedy had called “the cause of my life.” Mr. Brown has vowed to oppose the bill, and once he takes office the Democrats will no longer control the 60 votes in the Senate needed to overcome filibusters.

There were immediate signs that the bill had become imperiled. House members indicated they would not quickly pass the bill the Senate approved last month.

And after the results were announced, one centrist Democratic senator, Jim Webb of Virginia, called on Senate leaders to suspend any votes on the Democrats’ health care legislation until Mr. Brown is sworn into office. The election, he said, was a referendum on both health care and the integrity of the government process.

 

[qwesley]

More, if anyone wants to copy for the lying obama campaign worker, via politico

January 20, 2010
Categories:

• Polls

Reform most important issue, exit polls say
Here's another piece of proof that the health care narrative helped drive the Scott Brown Express to victory — exit polls say so. The exits are from a Republican polling firm — news orgs didn't exit poll the race — but seem to collaborate data from elsewhere.

 

[Rex Kwon Do]

His election to the Senate had nothing to do with the ACA. The Bill had already passed and the cleanup work on funding was done on simple majority basis thereafter

He ran on, and was elected to be, the 41st vote against Obamacare breaking the supermajority. It literally and figuratively flipped the entire process of the the bill passing upsided down forcing the house to pass the senate bill and skip reconciliation (only to rewrite whatever tf they wanted after the fact). Mass could've voted Coakley like every human expected after TFK's death but no.

Yup. Just a little "cleanup work". Little tidying here and there. Have a few interns initial some docs with the little yellow stickers with the red arrows. That was the whole Scott Brown thing. Yup.

 

[Teachable Moe]

One more thing, pretty solid use of Jim Webb and Clair(e) McCaskill as the most well known centrist Democrats.

Webb is a former Republican. What constitutes the political spectrum in this country is a little strange. When a former board member of Wal-Mart is considered "far left" we're not talking about the usual understanding of the term. It's simply been a convenient all-purpose pejorative phrase, a way of scaring the rubes,

 

[bigblueinsanity]

SIAP but saw several stories saying the Charleston shooter should not have been denied the gun purchase under current laws, but there was a glitch in the data input causing the system to miss it.

I wondered by the abrupt change from "tougher gun laws" to "take down the confederate flag"

Very skilled slight of hand by Obama and Co

 

[Rex Kwon Do]

Webb is a former Republican. What constitutes the political spectrum in this country is a little strange. When a former board member of Wal-Mart is considered "far left" we're not talking about the usual understanding of the term. It's simply been a convenient all-purpose pejorative phrase, a way of scaring the rubes,

My point was "well known", as in there are none.....why didn't you quote my next sentence?

 

[.S&C.]

The history of the flag isn't an opinion. Those who think it wasn't a symbol of racism are ignorant to the facts.

You are in the minority. Recent polls have sown, the majority of Americans, around 64% give or take, think the flag is ore about southern pride today than race. It's cool, you can have that opinion, but it's not right.

 

[.S&C.]

Webb is a former Republican. What constitutes the political spectrum in this country is a little strange. When a former board member of Wal-Mart is considered "far left" we're not talking about the usual understanding of the term. It's simply been a convenient all-purpose pejorative phrase, a way of scaring the rubes,

When were you planning on backing up your inflammatory propaganda on police shootings?

How many blacks did the police kill the last statistics given? How many whites were murdered? What are the rates for both?

You won't touch this and you know it, because it proves what a FRAUD you and the rest of your treason lobby are.

 

[Mojocat]

......a way of scaring the rubes,

This kind of snotty elitism, which surfaces regularly from one particular side in any discussion about politics or religion, always humors me. We're on a freakin message board for goodness sake. It's like seeing two guys diggin a ditch and having a condescending conversation about the uneducated masses.....

 

[.S&C.]

Both parties have moved further towards their Right/Left bases which is why we have so much polarization in Congress. I blame Gerrymandering of Congressional districts for a lot of that, which is now being looked at seriously by the courts.

I'll give you a couple of names of the better known center/left Democrats - Jim Webb, Clair McCaskill

Claire Mccaskill is no centrist. Her voting record speaks for itself.

I am sorry, the Democratic party is nothing but super far left extremist. It's not deniable. And its easy to understand why.

It's the party of minority vote herding. Regular folks who still support them vote on party name affiliation and don't understand the Democratic party of today has ZERO in common with lots of their beliefs. They are stuck in a political fight from 1985.

 

[WSU/UKfan]

You are in the minority. Recent polls have sown, the majority of Americans, around 64% give or take, think the flag is ore about southern pride today than race. It's cool, you can have that opinion, but it's not right.

I love the sneaky way you worded your post lol. I made a point about people being ignorant to the RACIST HISTORY of the flag and you are trying to claim I'm wrong because of how some people VIEW IT TODAY. Realize how those are two different things? Those who don't believe the flag has a racist history are ignorant to the facts. Are you disputing that?

 

[.S&C.]

I love the sneaky way you worded your post lol. I made a point about people being ignorant to the RACIST HISTORY of the flag and you are trying to claim I'm wrong because of how some people VIEW IT TODAY. Realize how those are two different things? Those who don't believe the flag has a racist history are ignorant to the facts. Are you disputing that?

If you want to say race was a part of the civil war, sure. But the flag isn't symbolic of racism in itself.

The American flag should be offensive as well. Jim Crow was worse in some areas than even late day slavery. Should we remove it?

This is a politicized issue. Never let a tragedy go to waste. Pathetic.

Which problem is bigger. The genocide in inner cities, or a flag that is meaningless? Honest question, where should more time be spent?

 

[.S&C.]

I love the sneaky way you worded your post lol. I made a point about people being ignorant to the RACIST HISTORY of the flag and you are trying to claim I'm wrong because of how some people VIEW IT TODAY. Realize how those are two different things? Those who don't believe the flag has a racist history are ignorant to the facts. Are you disputing that?

And again the premise for removing the flag wasn't about the civil war. It was about CURRENT DAY perception toward a group of people that were never really effected by the forces of the flag. Your point quite simply just doesnt matter.

But again, I appreciate the semi-tolereant stance.

 

[fuzz77]

Claire Mccaskill is no centrist. Her voting record speaks for itself.

I am sorry, the Democratic party is nothing but super far left extremist. It's not deniable. And its easy to understand why.

It's the party of minority vote herding. Regular folks who still support them vote on party name affiliation and don't understand the Democratic party of today has ZERO in common with lots of their beliefs. They are stuck in a political fight from 1985.

SC, you honestly have no clue as to what constitutes a centrist or the far left. To you, if they are to the left of John Birch then you think they're "far left". Further, I seriously doubt you could name, much less know the voting records of 90% of the Democrats in congress.

Fortunately that research has been done and the data plotted. So while you regurgitate what Rush or any of the other wing-nuts say, you can chew on this data.

 

[Teachable Moe]

This kind of snotty elitism, which surfaces regularly from one particular side in any discussion about politics or religion, always humors me. We're on a freakin message board for goodness sake. It's like seeing two guys diggin a ditch and having a condescending conversation about the uneducated masses.....

I don't see the comment as elitist, and even if it were that wouldn't have anything to do with whether or not it was true. When PT Barnum said that there was one born every minute, he wasn't being elitist.

And look at Mr. Smartypants, putting down ditch diggers and message boards.

 

[WSU/UKfan]

If you want to say race was a part of the civil war, sure. But the flag isn't symbolic of racism in itself.

The American flag should be offensive as well. Jim Crow was worse in some areas than even late day slavery. Should we remove it?

This is a politicized issue. Never let a tragedy go to waste. Pathetic.

Which problem is bigger. The genocide in inner cities, or a flag that is meaningless? Honest question, where should more time be spent?

What's with all the red herrings and misdirection? I said the flag has a racist history and those who deny it are ignorant to the facts. You are completely dodging those points. Does the flag have a racist history or not? Answer the question. If you say it does, doesn't that make those who don't know or believe it ignorant to the facts? Quit dodging.

You can't equate the american flag to the confederate flag. Sure the American flag can be deemed as offensive by some, which is why some Americans actually choose to burn the flag or refuse to stand for the national anthem, but at the end of the day its still the flag that represents our country. Racism aside, the confederate flag doesn't represent our country. It represents treason.

Genocide in inner cities is obviously the bigger problem but what does that have to do with anything? You're acting like we have to choose between pulling down the flag or trying to solve inner city genocide. It's not an either or. Your train of logic is so flawed. That'd be like a shoplifter arguing to the police and judge "why waste your time punishing me? Which is the bigger problem? The rape and murders in our societ or me stealing from Walmart? Honest question, where should you be spending your time and resources?"

 

[WSU/UKfan]

And again the premise for removing the flag wasn't about the civil war. It was about CURRENT DAY perception toward a group of people that were never really effected by the forces of the flag. Your point quite simply just doesnt matter.

But again, I appreciate the semi-tolereant stance.

The premise of removing the flag was that it has a racist history and represents treason. It's a flag that shouldn't have been up in the first place. Current day perception doesn't change where the flag came from and what the actual meaning of it is. If people want to twist the meaning of it into something positve and represent it in their homes and on their property, have at it. But why should it be put up on official grounds?

 

[Willy4UK]

The premise of removing the flag was that it has a racist history and represents treason. It's a flag that shouldn't have been up in the first place. Current day perception doesn't change where the flag came from and what the actual meaning of it is. If people want to twist the meaning of it into something positve and represent it in their homes and on their property, have at it. But why should it be put up on official grounds?

Hitler learned genocide through the KKK.

've got a Nazi flag on my car. When the wind flaps it ferociously tells the story of one guy who above all odds placed a Nazi flag for historic reasons. Jus sayin'''

#KEEPOURFLAGRISING


Amma I right you cracker ass honkies. My Asian wife says all of ya'll are racist cracker honkies. She said if she could peel the Paddocks soft honky skin, she would cut it and turn it to Asian noodles and watch your cracker honky families cry in tears. Since I'm married to a minority I agree with her.

 

[wkycatfan]

The Nazis also learned a lot about genocide and death camps from the Ottoman Turks during the Armenian Genocide.

 

[warrior-cat]

If so then it sounds like they took a page out of the GOP handbook.

Yeah, let's label everyone "liberal" or "conservative" despite the fact that the overwhelming majority of people are somewhere in the middle. Of course most wing-nuts I know can't recognize the middle to save their souls.
Enjoy the next 8 years with HRC at the helm because the right-wingers will ensure the GOP nominee is someone who's even less electable.

Your post is full hypocrisy because, Hillary is far left (wing nut) and it is who you are voting for. That and your attack on the RNC and not just the fringe. Enjoy the next 8 years as we continue to be torn apart.

 

[AustinTXCat]

Hitler learned genocide through the KKK.

've got a Nazi flag on my car. When the wind flaps it ferociously tells the story of one guy who above all odds placed a Nazi flag for historic reasons. Jus sayin'''

#KEEPOURFLAGRISING


Amma I right you cracker ass honkies. My Asian wife says all of ya'll are racist cracker honkies. She said if she could peel the Paddocks soft honky skin, she would cut it and turn it to Asian noodles and watch your cracker honky families cry in tears. Since I'm married to a minority I agree with her.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

And again the premise for removing the flag wasn't about the civil war. It was about CURRENT DAY perception toward a group of people that were never really effected by the forces of the flag. Your point quite simply just doesnt matter.

But again, I appreciate the semi-tolereant stance.

The flag wasnt even a blip on the radar screen a few weeks ago. That was until Obama made a speech about tougher gun laws, just to find out the current gun laws wouldve stopped the shooting had they been effectively utilized.

To avoid egg on his face, the focus switched to the flag.

Look I could care less about this flag, what it means now versus what it meant then, etc. What I find disturbing, is the ease and quickness with which the left was able to turn a large and loud (including media) part of the nation against something noone even cared about a few weeks ago.

 

[Teachable Moe]

Your post is full hypocrisy because, Hillary is far left (wing nut) and it is who you are voting for. That and your attack on the RNC and not just the fringe. Enjoy the next 8 years as we continue to be torn apart.

People keep saying that various Democrats are "far left wing". Name some policy of Clinton's that is "far left wing." Keep in mind that she was on Wal-Mart's board of directors. The phrase has to mean something other than "I just don't want this person to win for reasons." Left wing/right wing has meant certain things in the world since the early 19th century. Certain economic things. Radio bloviators can't just appropriate them. If you mean Radio Bloviating Far Left Wing rather than Historical Left Wing you ought to signify that with something like the (tm) symbol so that your readers can understand.

 

[Teachable Moe]

The flag wasnt even a blip on the radar screen a few weeks ago. That was until Obama made a speech about tougher gun laws, just to find out the current gun laws wouldve stopped the shooting had they been effectively utilized.

To avoid egg on his face, the focus switched to the flag.

Look I could care less about this flag, what it means now versus what it meant then, etc. What I find disturbing, is the ease and quickness with which the left was able to turn a large and loud (including media) part of the nation against something noone even cared about a few weeks ago.

Opposition to the flag is of long standing.
Gun laws obsess a small part of society. (But they're really obsessed and don't understand the bulk of society's indifference.)
Few people pay attention to speeches.
Some Republican politicos joined in the flag issue early -- not, depressingly, the announced candidates for president-- and, in Romney's case, helped to catalyze the movement.
The racist aspect of the murders themselves were the impetus for the vast majority

I point these things out not to convince you otherwise but for people who haven't been paying attention. All 3 of you. Studies have shown that people can't be reasoned out of positions that they haven't reasoned themselves into.

There's a whole lot of belly-achin' going on among people who claim that they're indifferent to the issue.

 

[qwesley]

HRC doesn't even do interviews much less talk policy....she really doesn't have to to get blind support. Speaking of, if you follow politics enough to post about it, very clear she that she is moving her language left to appease the Sanders and Warren people.

What we do know is that she is in favor of expanding amnesty via executive order, one of the few issues she has commented on.

Bottomline, she will be what the power of the party wants her to be and the party has turned significantly left.

 

[Teachable Moe]

HRC doesn't even do interviews much less talk policy....she really doesn't have to to get blind support. Speaking of, if you follow politics enough to post about it, very clear she that she is moving her language left to appease the Sanders and Warren people.

What we do know is that she is in favor of expanding amnesty via executive order, one of the few issues she has commented on.

Bottomline, she will be what the power of the party wants her to be and the party has turned significantly left.

So Immigration, silence, and stout assertion are what constitutes Far Left? Are employers who want freer immigration also Far Left. Or are they immune? I ask because there are many possible motives for wanting freer immigration laws than we currently have.

I don't know how that falls on the historical Left/Right spectrum. That's a Radio Bloviator Left/Right usage. Needs a (tm).

 

[qwesley]

Great, another disingenuous liberal that asks rathole questions but never answers basic ones. No wonder deeee likes all your posts. And lol at "stout assertion", good lord that screams fanboy.

You asked a question I answered. Expansion of amnesty by EO is a liberal position. So is single payer. Like I said, your party is moving left, and she will go the way the wind blows, there is not an authentic bone in her body. The Chamber supports anmnesty for cheap labor, it suppresses wages and crowds low-end school.....and as we see all the talk about caring about the poor by the left is just populistic window dressing. It is good a few people on the right refuses to go along.

 

[warrior-cat]

People keep saying that various Democrats are "far left wing". Name some policy of Clinton's that is "far left wing." Keep in mind that she was on Wal-Mart's board of directors. The phrase has to mean something other than "I just don't want this person to win for reasons." Left wing/right wing has meant certain things in the world since the early 19th century. Certain economic things. Radio bloviators can't just appropriate them. If you mean Radio Bloviating Far Left Wing rather than Historical Left Wing you ought to signify that with something like the (tm) symbol so that your readers can understand.

Below is a few comments that are concerning moderate democrats about Hillary.

"After positioning herself as a centrist and steely potential commander in chief in the 2008 Democratic primary, Clinton has shifted.
Clinton is now to the left of President Obama on the federal minimum wage. While Obama has endorsed a $10.10 hourly rate, Clinton has signaled support for more than doubling it, to $15 an hour.
The former first lady says same-sex marriage should be a constitutional right and endorsed Obama’s executive action shielding millions of illegal immigrants from deportation. She wants broad reform of a criminal justice system."