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POLITICAL THREAD

How will they rule ??!

  • YES - Qualified

    Votes: 41 82.0%
  • NO - Disqualified

    Votes: 9 18.0%

  • Total voters
    50
  • Poll closed .
Trickle down? Are we still playing that stupid card. The trickery of word play in politics is beyond pathetic. Only the liberals buy into it honestly and that goes right along with their passive sheepish ways headed right down the damn drain.

More poors, more lazy, more debt, worse healthcare, and more gay rights......YAY!!!!! But we sure are sticking it to the old white people!!!

Bunch of acid dropping hippies running the show so go figure the White House lit like a rainbow.
 
Raising the minimum wage sounds good if you've never worked in/owned a small business with employees. That's really all there is to it.
(Long)

This is the beginning/end of the argument.

We've moved so far away from a time when those in charge of the message (elected officials/academics/media members of all stripes) had any kind of business background whatsoever. They haven't made a payroll, they haven't hired/laid off/fired people. They haven't had to weigh the benefits of a capital purchase with their own money. They haven't had gov't regulations that threaten their bottom line or worse, their very existence.

That's what makes the minimum wage argument so incredibly academic, the folks discussing it at a national level or on here for that matter either simply don't have a shred of experience on the topic OR know the ramifications and just don't care....both are pretty damn disturbing.

For one, the ulterior pushers know good and well the unions will wait all of one K-Cup brew to demand renegotiations most of which (iirc) are indexed to MW anyways. Why else would unions push so hard for MW increases when their ranks make a crap load more?

Next...to answer Fuzz's response that all Mom and Pops have to deal with it too....well, that's true and I won't argue that...but that's not the real question. The problem is each wage level above MW (as with the unions) will be pressured to bump up. The business owner either eats it or pass it along to the customer (and eventually everyone). The latter runs the risk of the customer rethinking if they even need to keep outsourcing at all.

Also, the other problem with this is that while yes other Mom/Pops have to deal with it, larger competitors have an easier time absorbing the cost and spreading it across more customers. Basically helping the very people they rail against, bigger business.

A quick note about who actual MW on the streets....it's rare. But the squawkers don't know/care. They'll spout it anyways. I employ some people in jobs that believe me most talking heads would consider MW but I start at $9.50 and quickly get over 10. Market says so, that simple. In fact, the ONLY place I've encountered MW in business dealings with customers or vendors was at Kentucky Kingdom (under the previous Six Flags ownership 5+ years ago) where they employed 200+ high school kids for the summer at MW....the exact scenario most of us use to illustrate who actually makes this mythical number. I have my suspicions about some distant quasi-competitors that employ....well, "people that may have misplaced their documents"....when I see some public record bids and wonder how tf they plan to make any money, it usually goes in the garbage with a sigh that hopefully their ass gets shut down. Different topic, doh.

Bottom line, most people that spout about MW don't have a clue, seriously. Same with those "looking out for small businesses".....they aren't. They don't give a crap. They wouldn't know what a small business needs if it slapped them across the face.

/ rant
 
I hate the term "labor", as if you have to join a union to labor. I'll dare say non-union workers "labor" more than laborers. I used to work with a union for 18 years, there were good workers and bad workers. Then I've worked with non-union workers the past 15 years - same deal, these non-union workers "labor" just as hard.
 
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No evil behind the Confederate Flag huh? (My apologizes, the flag of Northern Virginia)
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No evil behind the Confederate Flag huh? (My apologizes, the flag of Northern Virginia)
Again, if reading is your thing, take down the southern cross (battle flag of Northern Virginia) and replace it with the original Confederate Flag - then tell folks to live with it.

th
 
You musta missed it Willie - Warrior-Cat and I agree on the minimum wage. :grimace:


Deeee. I get it man. Everyone wants money. However, poor earning jobs should remain poor earning.

I didn't go through graduate school so some fleeboid with a pill addiction can flip burgers for $15 an hour. Sorry, there is in no way in hell I can live with that. Honestly, I can stab a MF'er over that.

"Honey, don't worry about an education. You can make good money just showing up at McDonalds"
 
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Willy, The problem is McDonald's used to be an entry level job for high school and college kids. Unfortunately what's happened is so many manufacturing jobs have gone away or moved that now adults are filling these jobs.
Now I agree with you that they are not $15 an hour jobs, but we have people trying to support families on these jobs.
 
Willy, The problem is McDonald's used to be an entry level job for high school and college kids. Unfortunately what's happened is so many manufacturing jobs have gone away or moved that now adults are filling these jobs.
Now I agree with you that they are not $15 an hour jobs, but we have people trying to support families on these jobs.


I understand that. So rather than fix the problems of manufacturing jobs through shitty policies like NAFTA, we'll just go ahead and just give menial jobs a pay raise? Does that even make sense? For me, no.

All while scam schools such as ITT Tech and Phoenix etc etc are driving people in school debt.

I'll ask. What's the point of getting an education? Why not just go to McDonalds and earn as much as an entry level position into a good professional business?
 
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I understand that. So rather than fix the problems of manufacturing jobs through shitty policies like NAFTA, we'll just go ahead and just give menial jobs a pay raise? Does that even make sense? For me, no.

All while scam schools such as ITT Tech and Phoenix etc etc are driving people in school debt.

I'll ask. What's the point of getting an education? Why not just go to McDonalds and earn as much as an entry level position into a good professional business?
+1

Please add American Inter-Continental University (AIU), Florida Metropolitan University, Full Sail University and Virginia College, among several others. Such "institutions" are predators. I formerly assisted a non-profit watchdog analyzing that trash. A couple signatures prompted by a high-pressure recruiter may result in a lifetime of misery.
 
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+1

Please add American Inter-Continental University (AIU), Florida Metropolitan University, Full Sail University and Virginia College, among several others. Such "institutions" are predators. I formerly assisted a non-profit watchdog analyzing that trash. A couple signatures prompted by a high-pressure recruiter may result in a lifetime of misery.

UGHHHH. No doubt man. These have to charge such crazy prices because if they quit advertising, then they'd go out of business.
 
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Can we please just get away from this sensationalized emotional bullshit minimum wage discussion.

Over half of the minimum wage earners in this country are age 16 - 24. 77% of minimum wage earners are white. 64% are part time workers. So there you go. The vast vast majority of minimum wage earners in this country are part time young white people. Maybe if we point that out, the left will stop giving a shit about the minimum wage earners.

So no, NAFTA didn't drive a bunch of people from manufacturing jobs to minimum wage jobs. We don't have an epidemic of poor young minority mothers trying to get by on minimum wage.

If you want fast food workers to make $15 an hour, fast food workers will go extinct. They will be replaced with robots and automated ordering systems. You want high school cashiers at you local mom and pop retail store to make $15 an hour and your local mom and pop shops will go extinct.

Sure there are some people who fall into unfortunate circumstances who are trying to get by with a family on minimum wage. But for the most part, it's your own damn fault if you're trying to raise a family on minimum wage. Don't tell me I need to pay you more to do your bullshit job. I'll tell you you're a dumb ass for having kids in the first place.
 
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I understand that. So rather than fix the problems of manufacturing jobs through shitty policies like NAFTA, we'll just go ahead and just give menial jobs a pay raise? Does that even make sense? For me, no.

All while scam schools such as ITT Tech and Phoenix etc etc are driving people in school debt.

I'll ask. What's the point of getting an education? Why not just go to McDonalds and earn as much as an entry level position into a good professional business?
Willy, you get an education so you don't stay in that entry level job. It isn't what you make in year 1 or two, it's what you are making in year 10 and beyond. I didn't make diddly my first year out of school...but in 3 or 4 years I had doubled my salary.

I agree with your "scam school" statement.

Something has to be done about the growing income inequality. If not, the disenfranchised will continue to vote themselves more and more benefits...and they will give the bill to those at the top.
 
Cosby, nafta and the loss of manufacturing jobs have definitely pushed people to fast food work and govt assistance. I'm 41, I worked at Dairy Queen as a kid, there were 4 adults that worked there at that time. Day or night. 3 managers and one lady who was married and had been there 25 years. The rest were high school kids and college students. It's just not like that anymore.
I live in Paducah, in the last 5 years approx 4000 middle class jobs have been lost just in this area. It's like that everywhere. We can't sustain that kind of loss and not expect it to have an impact on everyone.
 
the disenfranchised will continue to vote themselves more and more benefits.
Aren't you basically accusing your own side of pandering to those who will hand out more benefits? Buying votes, if you will? Couldn't your statement be solved by Democrats putting on their Dad Pants and saying "no more, we can't afford it"?

Very telling statement on your part.
 
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I understand that. So rather than fix the problems of manufacturing jobs through shitty policies like NAFTA, we'll just go ahead and just give menial jobs a pay raise? Does that even make sense? For me, no.

All while scam schools such as ITT Tech and Phoenix etc etc are driving people in school debt.

I'll ask. What's the point of getting an education? Why not just go to McDonalds and earn as much as an entry level position into a good professional business?

I agree we need to fix the problem, but maybe it takes something like fast food workers wanting $15 an hour to open people's eyes.
 
Aren't you basically accusing your own side of pandering to those who will hand out more benefits? Buying votes, if you will? Couldn't your statement be solved by Democrats putting on their Dad Pants and saying "no more, we can't afford it"?

Very telling statement on your part.

Dude is all over the place, his whole posting style/thoughts are one big rathole. One page, ranting about needing more centrists like himself (lol), next page calling Reps "wingnuts" and Obama fellating. The TTFMO members are a complicated sort due to their inherent dishonesty.
 
Cosby, nafta and the loss of manufacturing jobs have definitely pushed people to fast food work and govt assistance. I'm 41, I worked at Dairy Queen as a kid, there were 4 adults that worked there at that time. Day or night. 3 managers and one lady who was married and had been there 25 years. The rest were high school kids and college students. It's just not like that anymore.
I live in Paducah, in the last 5 years approx 4000 middle class jobs have been lost just in this area. It's like that everywhere. We can't sustain that kind of loss and not expect it to have an impact on everyone.

Top 3 job growth areas are healthcare, service industry, and temp. The small and medium size towns have been gutted by mfg losses.
 
Illegal immigration amnesty will do more to set the black population back than anything since jim crow, but the liberals could care less. It will ensure national elections in the future.

Wake up America. You are being sold out for voting blocks. Why would we want to bring in all those unemployed when we can't even employ OUR OWN. Voter blocks.

Good grief some of you are far too smart to be this stupid.
Yes, this is the enlightenment coming from the intelligent Republican voter.

The problem is, we've yet to hear any actual ideas coming out of your party for how to deal with illegal immigrants here (self-deportation and a fence are not those), healthcare, Iran, or really anything of substance. Really all your good at is blaming others for your problems (or the media). Which is why Trump is leading right now.
 
Willy, you get an education so you don't stay in that entry level job. It isn't what you make in year 1 or two, it's what you are making in year 10 and beyond. I didn't make diddly my first year out of school...but in 3 or 4 years I had doubled my salary.

I agree with your "scam school" statement.

Something has to be done about the growing income inequality. If not, the disenfranchised will continue to vote themselves more and more benefits...and they will give the bill to those at the top.

I have a Masters and in one year I'll have a clinical license. What are you talking about getting an education? I have one.

Yeah, income inequality needs to be figured out. But the current Democratic and Republican scheme of pilfering money to poors and corporations (both do it), won't allow it.

This country is finished.
 
catdaddy, other than not saying Faux News that was a near perfect Dempartywhore post.

If the GOP put forth a strong immigration plan that used housing and employer penalties to stem the tide of immigration we know how that would play out and you would be on here shouting the talking points.

I do agree the GOP leadership needs to put some ideas out there, they pretty much do nothing. Unfortunately much time is spent defending the current outrage narrative or populistic "idea" the left sends their minions out to rant about.
 
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Why didn't the large tax increase on the rich in 2012 stem the growth of income inequality? Perhaps it is related to the DC suburbs extreme wealth growth and lack of "trickle" out of our govt.
 
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Cosby, nafta and the loss of manufacturing jobs have definitely pushed people to fast food work and govt assistance. I'm 41, I worked at Dairy Queen as a kid, there were 4 adults that worked there at that time. Day or night. 3 managers and one lady who was married and had been there 25 years. The rest were high school kids and college students. It's just not like that anymore.
I live in Paducah, in the last 5 years approx 4000 middle class jobs have been lost just in this area. It's like that everywhere. We can't sustain that kind of loss and not expect it to have an impact on everyone.


The minimum wage statistics do not support your anecdote.

I'm not saying job loss hasn't occured, it just has nothing to do with some emotional sensationalized argument to pay low skilled low demand workers well above market rate.
 
Maybe because that's not the goal qwesley? Those poor rich, they pay the smallest amount in taxes they ever have. They have numerous vehicles available to them to keep even more of their money, I just don't want you to worry about those guys too much. I think they're doing ok. Income inequality will only go away when the common folks have had enough. Which is why the rich love these side issues that divert people away from seeing the bigger picture.

Switching to Iran, I believe the Republicans heads might explode on this one. But I thought this article pretty much sums out how they view foreign policy, in some Norman Rockwell type view of America, as if it exists in a vacuum in the 1950s. I'm sure we're gonna hear all kinds of scary stuff but what we won't hear is an actual alternative that still meets the goal of keeping Iran from wanting to pursue nukes.

Why the Iran Deal Makes Obama's Critics So Angry
The nuclear agreement highlights the limits of American power—something the president’s opponents won’t accept.

The point is simple: In life, what matters most isn’t how a decision compares to your ideal outcome. It’s how it compares to the alternative at hand.

The same is true for the Iran deal, announced Tuesday between Iran and six world powers. As Congress begins debating the agreement, its opponents have three real alternatives. The first is to kill the deal, and the interim agreement that preceded it, and do nothing else, which means few restraints on Iran’s nuclear program. The second is war. But top American and Israeli officials have warned that military action against Iranian nuclear facilities could ignite a catastrophic regional conflict and would be ineffective, if not counterproductive, in delaying Iran’s path to the bomb. Meir Dagan, who oversaw the Iran file as head of Israel’s external spy agency, the Mossad, from 2002 to 2011, has said an attack “would mean regional war, and in that case you would have given Iran the best possible reason to continue the nuclear program.” Michael Hayden, who ran the CIA under George W. Bush from 2006 to 2009, has warned that an attack would “guarantee that which we are trying to prevent: an Iran that will spare nothing to build a nuclear weapon.”

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/07/iran-nuclear-deal-obama/398450/
 
The minimum wage statistics do not support your anecdote.

I'm not saying job loss hasn't occured, it just has nothing to do with some emotional sensationalized argument to pay low skilled low demand workers well above market rate.

I'm not saying they deserve $15 an hour, but the loss of jobs has trickled into workers taking other positions.
Most fast food places pay more than minimum wage. I know there are more adults working in them than ever before. A loss in manufacturing jobs coincides with that change.
 
It's not just Republicans. Democrats have a problem with this deal also. President Obama threatens veto over any changes by Congress.
 
Trump has some grapefruit balls. That is for damn sure. Gets threatened by a Drug Kingpin and just goes after Mexico and Illegals even harder on social media. More than can be said about any of these other candidates.
 
The Iran deal and alternatives are damned if you damned if you don't. Either we do nothing and they eventually get a nuke any way or we attack and seriously set them back decades in getting the bomb or make a deal that does nothing to limit their ability to get the bomb but makes Obama look good. I will say if we attack we will have to attack every ten years or so and that would probably cause a huge conflict in the region (I agree with this assessment).
 
Sorry but going to war with Iran for Israel is just a lose/lose proposition. It would turn the ME into an even worse cesspool than it already is and it would cause Iran to speed up their acquisition of a nuclear deterrent. There's absolutely no way an attack on Iran doesn't turn into a wider conflict.
 
Maybe because that's not the goal qwesley? Those poor rich, they pay the smallest amount in taxes they ever have. They have numerous vehicles available to them to keep even more of their money, I just don't want you to worry about those guys too much. I think they're doing ok. Income inequality will only go away when the common folks have had enough. Which is why the rich love these side issues that divert people away from seeing the bigger picture.

Wut? That is the explicit goal and cornerstone to the Dem message today. Tax the rich to tackle inequality. We hear it incessantly. If you tax increases on anybody you need to make the case that our govt is responsible with the money that they take today.

But also....perhaps if the middle class is really a concern of yours there are a shitload of issues around energy, healthcare and tuition costs, state and local bond debt, etc you should try to hold your party accountable on.
 
Why the Iran Deal Makes Obama's Critics So Angry
The nuclear agreement highlights the limits of American power—something the president’s opponents won’t accept.

Ah, yes, the whole "the illusion of America as superpower is finally and thankfully over!" crowd. Brings back such fond memories of the late 1970s, malaise, relocated hair parts, and peanuts......
 
I have a Masters and in one year I'll have a clinical license. What are you talking about getting an education? I have one.

Yeah, income inequality needs to be figured out. But the current Democratic and Republican scheme of pilfering money to poors and corporations (both do it), won't allow it.

This country is finished.
Willy, you asked the question...
I'll ask. What's the point of getting an education? Why not just go to McDonalds and earn as much as an entry level position into a good professional business?
This is to what I was referring. It isn't what you can get at McDonald's vs an entry level position...hell, I know a few lawyers who had to work for peanuts their first couple of years out of law school...but now they are partners in those law firms. Education isn't about what you can get right out of school, it's what you can get (expect) for the rest of your career.
 
Willy, you asked the question...

This is to what I was referring. It isn't what you can get at McDonald's vs an entry level position...hell, I know a few lawyers who had to work for peanuts their first couple of years out of law school...but now they are partners in those law firms. Education isn't about what you can get right out of school, it's what you can get (expect) for the rest of your career.


Gotcha. I see.

Do you think menial labor jobs should be $15 an hour?
 
Gotcha. I see.

Do you think menial labor jobs should be $15 an hour?
I don't know about $15 an hour but, I do believe that they should make more than lets say $10 an hour to make it worth their while to stay off of the government teet. Make it more appealing to work than to sit on their asses all day and live sometimes better than those who are actually contributing to the work force and paying taxes.
 
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