"Plus, DJ Wagner was out" excuse

[SemperFiCat]

So, reading and posting last night and this morning, I'm seeing some decent stuff, and some excuses. The excuse I just can't look past is "plus, DJ Wagner didn't play". I can't believe we have fans here that think it's ok to use that as en excuse. Yes, Wagner is playing well, and obviously very valuable. But Kentucky should be able to handle UNC freaking Wilmington AT Rupp without DJ Wagner. Wagner being out would be a legit excuse for a loss against Kansas, or at Arkansas, or an SECT game. There's a few things that led to an embarrassing loss last night, but DJ Wagner not playing shouldn't be one of them. We are deep at guards. The problem wasn't who didn't play. The problem was how the guards did play. Or more accurately forced or allowed to play. Don't deflect with that weak excuse. It was UNC freaking Wilmington, at Rupp.

 

[know1]

The problem is the coach. It always is. It's never the players.

 

[St.PatterSoN-54-]

Ball movement was horrible. Bad shots. Hero ball. Would have been good to have Wagner but those things are COACHING.

 

[UKBB4Ever]

Yes, we should have won without Wagner.

But we would have won with him.

 

[FitchandMurray29]

We still should have won but if anything I think the absence of DJ is being minimized locally and nationally. Part of that is due to how well Sheppard has played admittedly. But missing your starting PG, consensus top 10 recruit, consensus first round pick, etc. is definitely something that can impact a ball game.

Before the season if you told me we would have a pretty decent midmajor(was on a top 10 list they showed during the game, that would play well in Rupp as always) without DJ Wagner, really no Aaron Bradshaw as it was his first live action in 9 months, and still no Ivisic/Ugo this result would be a lot less shocking than it seems on the surface.

It’s easy to blame Cal for not filling out his scholarships with capable players but missing essentially 4 players then having guys foul out and some play terrible, there just weren’t other options yesterday.

Besides his play his absence also messed up the platoon/package of Rob/Reed that had been so effective coming in together.

There are real problems with this team that our insane offense masked to some degree. You have some regression, a hangover from everyone crowning them, miss some players, etc. you get a ruined Saturday.

 

[cornbreadnmilk]

We lost to a team at home that just lost to East Carolina.Think about that.

 

[ukjenning44]

Cal can’t coach CCC. Is why we lost!
DJ Wagner or not we have 10 times the talent as the team that came in and beat us from start to finish.

 

[SemperFiCat]

Yes, we should have won without Wagner.

But we would have won with him.

Look, if your team beating UNCW is contingent on Wagner playing or not, you don't have a very good team. People using the Wagner excuse are doing so to deflect the real issues that caused the loss; poor game prep, and poor game management. Using the Wagner excuse deflects the blame off Cal. Par for course for the Cal First faithful.

 

[SemperFiCat]

The problem is the coach. It always is. It's never the players.

The problem IS sometimes the coach. It just is sometimes. Facts are facts. Last night was one of those times. Sometimes it is on the players. It can be both. But I think only one group of fans will acknowledge that.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

What I don’t understand is why Cal never changed the defense. At least, try someone different on that White kid. Edwards was abused over and over again and couldn’t stop him. It was brutal to watch. Speaking of Edwards, he needs less PT, not more.

EDIT: I mean this has been a reoccurring problem his entire tenure here.

 

[SemperFiCat]

What I don’t understand is why Cal never changed the defense. At least, try someone different on that White kid. Edwards was abused over and over again and couldn’t stop him. It was brutal to watch. Speaking of Edwards, he needs less PT, not more.

Because Cal simply doesn't know how to teach or run a zone. Why he hasn't or won't is anyone's guess. We did get a little press last night, but should've tried that a few min earlier. The guy simply refuses to alter his Def mindset. His teams are usually really good on the Def end, but it's mind boggling that he doesn't have a zone in his back pocket.

 

[kybassfan]

Ball movement was horrible. Bad shots. Hero ball. Would have been good to have Wagner but those things are COACHING.

Except the did them fine the game before. This game we bunched up. Panicked. Went into hero mode. No defense. Guess who is responsible for those things? The players know….

 

[kybassfan]

Because Cal simply doesn't know how to teach or run a zone. Why he hasn't or won't is anyone's guess. We did get a little press last night, but should've tried that a few min earlier. The guy simply refuses to alter his Def mindset. His teams are usually really good on the Def end, but it's mind boggling that he doesn't have a zone in his back pocket.

Playing competitive zone is impossible if you are unskilled in man to man. They would have destroyed a zone.

 

[SemperFiCat]

Playing competitive zone is impossible if you are unskilled in man to man. They would have destroyed a zone.

I can agree with that. But I think the zone clamoring is due to Cal never having it in his arsenal, and he's had really good man to man teams that he could've added to. The zone talk is really just the frustration of seemingly be held hostage by his lack of in-game coaching abilities and adjustments. That's a reputation he's earned by himself. If Cal is stuck in a situation like that, he simply doesn't have the ability to coach his way around it.

 

[Troy363]

The problem is the coach. It always is. It's never the players.

Yawn

 

[shaudyshaud]

I can’t even sit here and say we most definitely would have won with Wagner .

Because I thought we still were good enough to win without him

 

[kybassfan]

I can agree with that. But I think the zone clamoring is due to Cal never having it in his arsenal, and he's had really good man to man teams that he could've added to. The zone talk is really just the frustration of seemingly be held hostage by his lack of in-game coaching abilities and adjustments. That's a reputation he's earned by himself. If Cal is stuck in a situation like that, he simply doesn't have the ability to coach his way around it.

Well, most are twisted knickers over yesterday’s game. Thinking this team can play zone right now is just stupid.

The question is what happened to spacing on offense and why did we quit passing. Also, why the hell can’t we defend by staying in front of a guy. Why can’t we be more court aware on defense, That’s not coaching. I know several guys that will look at their toes if you ask them that…

 

[SemperFiCat]

Well, most are twisted knickers over yesterday’s game. Thinking this team can play zone right now is just stupid.

The question is what happened to spacing on offense and why did we quit passing. Also, why the hell can’t we defend by staying in front of a guy. Why can’t we be more court aware on defense, That’s not coaching. I know several guys that will look at their toes if you ask them that…

You had me until you said "that's not coaching". And quite frankly, I'm not sure how anyone can say that's not on the coaching. I mean, what is Cal actually responsible for then? Just recruiting?

 

[Kuhldaddy]

We lost to a team at home that just lost to East Carolina.Think about that.

They also lost to Appalachian Freaking State. At home. By 30! We were dominated at home by a terrible team.

 

[grevey35]

Look, if your team beating UNCW is contingent on Wagner playing or not, you don't have a very good team. People using the Wagner excuse are doing so to deflect the real issues that caused the loss; poor game prep, and poor game management. Using the Wagner excuse deflects the blame off Cal. Par for course for the Cal First faithful.

He said we should have won without him. Did you just ignore that part? That does not equal contingent upon having DJ. You are not even allowed to state the fact DJ did not play without it being considered making excuses? When you dismiss things that are 100% true entirely that is just having an agenda.

 

[*CatinIL*]

There's only one reason UK lost yesterday to UNCW...

 

[SemperFiCat]

He said we should have won without him. Did you just ignore that part? That does not equal contingent upon having DJ. You are not even allowed to state the fact DJ did not play without it being considered making excuses? When you dismiss things that are 100% true entirely that is just having an agenda.

What?? Facts, uh? Facts are people using Wagner not playing as an excuse for losing to UNCW at Rupp, because heaven forbid it be anyone or anything else's fault other than Cal's coaching. Twisting words, using semantics, and deflecting instead the addressing the actual issue is agenda driven.

 

[kybassfan]

You had me until you said "that's not coaching". And quite frankly, I'm not sure how anyone can say that's not on the coaching. I mean, what is Cal actually responsible for then? Just recruiting?

Well, if what you say is true, a ‘good’ coach can take any five and coach them up. Good luck with that.

I’ll give you a military example. You panic in the bush and stand up, yell mommy and get drilled in the chest. Drill Sargent’s fault?

Players are responsible for the floor and execution of the game plan. Cal did not miss a three. Call did not give up the driving lane. Call did not stand too close. Call did not tell anyone to go full hero. They know how to play. They just didn’t.

Now I understand some people just gotta have a scape goat. I’m more the type to analyze what actually happened and try to fix it We don’t play defense. Not one single game have we played defense. Nothing is more important.

 

[SemperFiCat]

Well, if what you say is true, a ‘good’ coach can take any five and coach them up. Good luck with that.

I’ll give you a military example. You panic in the bush and stand up, yell mommy and get drilled in the chest. Drill Sargent’s fault?

Players are responsible for the floor and execution of the game plan. Cal did not miss a three. Call did not give up the driving lane. Call did not stand too close. Call did not tell anyone to go full hero. They know how to play. They just didn’t.

Now I understand some people just gotta have a scape goat. I’m more the type to analyze what actually happened and try to fix it We don’t play defense. Not one single game have we played defense. Nothing is more important.

I understand. It is not Cal's fault. It's the players' fault. Cal is infallible and has no responsibility prior to and during the game. Got it.

 

[kybassfan]

I understand. It is not Cal's fault. It's the players' fault. Cal is infallible and has no responsibility prior to and during the game. Got it.

Says the guy desperate for a scapegoat. Blame him if you get a warm and fuzzy for it Nobody that matters is going to agree. But you can join the others that cling to scapegoats and feel better maybe.

 

[SemperFiCat]

Says the guy desperate for a scapegoat. Blame him if you get a warm and fuzzy for it Nobody that matters is going to agree. But you can join the others that cling to scapegoats and feel better maybe.

We dismantled Miami, largely without Wagner. Who's using his absence, at home against UNCW, as the excuses and deflecting 100% blame off of Cal? That, my friend, is delusional and scapegoating.

 

[kybassfan]

We dismantled Miami, largely without Wagner. Who's using his absence, at home against UNCW, as the excuses and deflecting 100% blame off of Cal? That, my friend, is delusional and scapegoating.

Funny, I never mentioned Wagner. Though now you mention it, his absence did switch up some roles.

 

[SemperFiCat]

Funny, I never mentioned Wagner. Though now you mention it, his absence did switch up some roles.

I've had my fill of your delusions for a bit.

But I am curious. This is a simple, honest question. It requires a very simple couple keystroke answer. What percentage of this loss do you put on Cal? Just a number, 0-100. ??

 

[kybassfan]

I've had my fill of your delusions for a bit.

But I am curious. This is a simple, honest question. It requires a very simple couple keystroke answer. What percentage of this loss do you put on Cal? Just a number, 0-100. ??

Non sequitor as there are no analytics to arrive at a computation. The failure was systemic, the team collapsed. It failed to execute. So 100% on everybody on the bench. I can tell you this. I played basketball. No coach was responsible for our losses. I can’t imagine a player being such a pussy as to suggest it.

 

[SemperFiCat]

Non sequitor as there are no analytics to arrive at a computation. The failure was systemic, the team collapsed. It failed to execute. So 100% on everybody on the bench. I can tell you this. I played basketball. No coach was responsible for our losses. I can’t imagine a player being such a pussy as to suggest it.

🤣 typical Bass.

 

[kybassfan]

🤣 typical Bass.

Typical Ky basketball hater.

 

[know1]

Typical Ky basketball hater.

You should take a look in the mirror. Based on your extensive history of posts, I can only come up with 2 possibilities of what you see in the reflection:

1. Someone who isn't a UK fan, or
2. Someone whose last name is Calipari.

And they are almost the same thing anyway.

 

[Dontworryboutit23]

We lost to a team at home that just lost to East Carolina.Think about that.

And lost to app st by 30

 

[SemperFiCat]

You should take a look in the mirror. Based on your extensive history of posts, I can only come up with 2 possibilities of what you see in the reflection:

1. Someone who isn't a UK fan, or
2. Someone whose last name is Calipari.

And they are almost the same thing anyway.

I've thought the same. Even the most ardent Cal support can be real and honest enough to put a least some blame on Cal for games like that. At least some shred of critique and accountability. Bass literally can't summon a shred of realistic objectivity. So, either a A) very successful troll, B) a Calipari, or C) has some level of mental... oddness. Profile indicates they started posting before the Cal hire. So, my guess is a very lonely, and desperate for attention, troll.

 

[kybassfan]

You should take a look in the mirror. Based on your extensive history of posts, I can only come up with 2 possibilities of what you see in the reflection:

1. Someone who isn't a UK fan, or
2. Someone whose last name is Calipari.

And they are almost the same thing anyway.

So you have proven your capabilities are limited. I’m sorry you are so confined. Let me help. I’ll give you a third possibility. I’m not stupid enough to bash my team in public.

The team failed. They didn’t execute. They didn’t defend. Let’s hope they don’t make that mistake again. I think they learn and move forward.

Good luck thrashing your scapegoat.

 

[grevey35]

What?? Facts, uh? Facts are people using Wagner not playing as an excuse for losing to UNCW at Rupp, because heaven forbid it be anyone or anything else's fault other than Cal's coaching. Twisting words, using semantics, and deflecting instead the addressing the actual issue is agenda driven.

I very clearly stated the fact is DJ did not play. The guy you were calling out said we should have won anyway. Pretty simple really. The actual issue is that our defense was terrible and we were not playing team ball on offense like we have previously proven very capable of.

 

[kybassfan]

I've thought the same. Even the most ardent Cal support can be real and honest enough to put a least some blame on Cal for games like that. At least some shred of critique and accountability. Bass literally can't summon a shred of realistic objectivity. So, either a A) very successful troll, B) a Calipari, or C) has some level of mental... oddness. Profile indicates they started posting before the Cal hire. So, my guess is a very lonely, and desperate for attention, troll.

I did. It was a team failure. Cal part of the team. You asked for a specific percentage and there is no objective means to produce one. That was not my dumbass question.

 

[know1]

So you have proven your capabilities are limited. I’m sorry you are so confined. Let me help. I’ll give you a third possibility. I’m not stupid enough to bash my team in public.

The team failed. They didn’t execute. They didn’t defend. Let’s hope they don’t make that mistake again. I think they learn and move forward.

Good luck thrashing your scapegoat.

I don't bash the team. I bash the coach. And he deserves it.

You're the one saying it was a team failure. So isn't that bashing the team?

And a coach is the top leader of the program. So he can't be a scapegoat.

 

[TNCatfanforever]

Yes, we should have won without Wagner.

But we would have won with him.

Not sure you can prove this

 

[docholiday51]

We lost yesterday because we got outplayed and outhustled by an inferior team. The team and Cal bought into the hype and got too big for their britches. All this players first, a half dozen players with their individual camps or posse. This is the Cal culture that has been part of UK basketball for the past several years. Winning and losing games is third or fourth down the list of priorities in the Cal culture. There are too many issues that seem to confront Cal teams. This year's list includes maybe Z will be cleared, maybe Bradshaw will continue to play and fit into the team, maybe Wagner will return soon. Maybe all these things will make the team better.

The Cal culture is something each of the recent teams have had to deal with and try to overcome (or at least manage) The issues differ from year to year but in some form are always, not only present, but at the forefront of team development and growth.

Cal goes out of his way to create controversy when and where none should exist.