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Jay Bruce sucks.......

You don't slide you sit?

Bruce out of the line up today. Gomes, Hippy Dick, and NIx in the outfield.

Toothpick won't bash him in public but hopefully he is sitting for not sliding and sucking.
 
Originally posted by ukrulz:
ERA's during the Dunn era...

2008-4.55
2007-4.95
2006-4.53
2005-5.18
2004-5.21
2003-5.09
2002-4.29
2001-4.78

ERA in the two years prior to Dunn? 4.33 and 3.99. ERA this year? 4.01.

So, during the Dunn era, the Reds average ERA was 4.82. It was 4.11 in the years you pointed out. Coincidence?
Click to expand...
Ummm, not at all.

Thanks for researching the Reds' ERAs through the years to acquire the necessary data to contradict yourself.

The argument for why the Reds sucked ass while Dunn was here is that he, along with Griffey, were absolutely terrible in the outfield. Thus turning singles into doubles, doubles into triples, outs into hits and generally making the Reds' scoreboard look like the freaking Gross National Debt clock for the opposition. Your post all but proves that point.

Please tell me, what great off season acquisitions have the reds made to the starting rotation to make their ERA so much better this year?

Answer: Nothing

They added a fifth starter known for his hitting (who happens to have the second highest ERA on the team.)

The reason the Reds' ERA is better this year is simple: the two biggest defensive liabilities are gone and they replaced them with young, fast, strong armed outfielders capable of covering a lot of ground and making outfield assists.
 
I know this is a Bruce thread but with all the talk about Dunn I gotta say Id love to have that SOB on the cubs this year. Hell Id take anyone who isnt a headcase or consider a bitten fingernail as a damn injury!!
 
Originally posted by AfroGerman Santa:

Originally posted by ukrulz:
ERA's during the Dunn era...

2008-4.55
2007-4.95
2006-4.53
2005-5.18
2004-5.21
2003-5.09
2002-4.29
2001-4.78

ERA in the two years prior to Dunn? 4.33 and 3.99. ERA this year? 4.01.

So, during the Dunn era, the Reds average ERA was 4.82. It was 4.11 in the years you pointed out. Coincidence?
Click to expand...
Ummm, not at all.

Thanks for researching the Reds' ERAs through the years to acquire the necessary data to contradict yourself.

The argument for why the Reds sucked ass while Dunn was here is that he, along with Griffey, were absolutely terrible in the outfield. Thus turning singles into doubles, doubles into triples, outs into hits and generally making the Reds' scoreboard look like the freaking Gross National Debt clock for the opposition. Your post all but proves that point.

Please tell me, what great off season acquisitions have the reds made to the starting rotation to make their ERA so much better this year?

Answer: Nothing

They added a fifth starter known for his hitting (who happens to have the second highest ERA on the team.)

The reason the Reds' ERA is better this year is simple: the two biggest defensive liabilities are gone and they replaced them with young, fast, strong armed outfielders capable of covering a lot of ground and making outfield assists.
Click to expand...
Very well put!
 
Originally posted by AfroGerman Santa:

Originally posted by ukrulz:
ERA's during the Dunn era...

2008-4.55
2007-4.95
2006-4.53
2005-5.18
2004-5.21
2003-5.09
2002-4.29
2001-4.78

ERA in the two years prior to Dunn? 4.33 and 3.99. ERA this year? 4.01.

So, during the Dunn era, the Reds average ERA was 4.82. It was 4.11 in the years you pointed out. Coincidence?
Click to expand...
Ummm, not at all.

Thanks for researching the Reds' ERAs through the years to acquire the necessary data to contradict yourself.

The argument for why the Reds sucked ass while Dunn was here is that he, along with Griffey, were absolutely terrible in the outfield. Thus turning singles into doubles, doubles into triples, outs into hits and generally making the Reds' scoreboard look like the freaking Gross National Debt clock for the opposition. Your post all but proves that point.

Please tell me, what great off season acquisitions have the reds made to the starting rotation to make their ERA so much better this year?

Answer: Nothing

They added a fifth starter known for his hitting (who happens to have the second highest ERA on the team.)

The reason the Reds' ERA is better this year is simple: the two biggest defensive liabilities are gone and they replaced them with young, fast, strong armed outfielders capable of covering a lot of ground and making outfield assists.
Click to expand...

Or it could be that our young guys like Cueto and Volquez are a year older and more mature and Aaron Harang isn't having the worst year of his career like he did last year. And Micah is better than Josh Fogg. Add that with the addition of Arthur Rhodes who has gave up one run all year. Daniel Ray Herrera and Nick Masset all with big roles in the bullpen this year and that is why the ERA is better.

So yeah the pitching staff is much different than last year.
 
The pitching is better because the defense is better.

End of story.

Anyone that disagrees with this is a dumbass.

Next.
 
Originally posted by AfroGerman Santa:
The pitching is better because the defense is better.

End of story.

Anyone that disagrees with this is a dumbass.

Next.
Click to expand...
Or haven't watched too many games with Griffey and Dunn in the outfield. The bullpen has improved but to say the Reds aren't DRAMATICALLY better defensively in the outfield is borderline INSANE!
 
I have been sitting Bruce for Nyjer Morgan and Jason Kubel. Ouch. If Votto were in the lineup how close would Bruce be to Louisville for a week?
 
Originally posted by DK Cat:

Dunn was downright horrific when it came to driving in the runner from third with less than 2 outs.
Click to expand...


Actually, for his career:

Adam Dunn = .248 / .382 / .520
w/runner on 3rd = .237 / .447 / .516


Pretty similar. But nice try, hoss.


Funny how this has turned into a debate of whether Adam Dunn sucks or not. Adam Dunn pretty much *does* suck, imo.....



....but he's better than Jay Bruce.


And for those of you (like UKO) who cannot read, I'll provide these minor league statistics once again:

ADunn (343 games) = .304 / .425 / .525 / 270 ks / 230 walks
Bruce (353 games) = .308 / .366 / .555 / 339 ks / 125 walks


ohwell.gif



I'm not *just* looking at Jay Bruce's ML numbers. I'm looking 5 years of professional experience. And the numbers are RIGHT THERE --> Adam Dunn >>>>>>>>>> Jay Bruce.


So if Adam Dunn sucks because he strikes out too much.....then what does that say about Jay Bruce?

So if Adam Dunn sucks because he's slow and fat.....then what does that say about Jay Bruce?
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by AfroGerman Santa:
The pitching is better because the defense is better.

End of story.

Anyone that disagrees with this is a dumbass.

Next.
Click to expand...

No one is denying that defense helps pitchers. Its just you all are putting way to much stock in it. You can have a couple of below avg fielders if they can swing the bat. You need pitching and offense. If you have great pitching the other team isn't going to hit the ball real hard most of the time so the need for defense is less needed. lol

I like the new attempt at small ball. lol Truth is we aren't even playing small ball. Its a worse version of what the reds have had lately. A power hitting team without the power. Aren't we in the top 5 in the NL in Home Runs hit?

At least if the reds get down 2 or more runs early we know we can turn the game off. Comes in handy.
 
All this thread shows me is that people have unrealistic expectations.

Which one makes more sense?
-Bashing the most potent offensive player in the post-Larkin Reds era not named Joey Votto.

OR

-Bashing a 22 year old Minor League PotY.

I'm sure there are people in this thread who also think that Norris Hopper is better than both of the above.
 
When told Bruce was 2 for 33, Dunn laughed and said, “I’m 3 for 38. But I don’t feel bad at the plate. I feel good. Whatever.” Dunn jumped into the batting cage and somebody said it isn’t likely the Reds would pitch to him and he said, always self-deprecatingly, “Why wouldn’t they? I would.”

McCoy
 
Originally posted by Boski_P:

Originally posted by DK Cat:

Like I said in a previous post, when Jay was labeled a 5 tool player they must have forgot about the speed thing. I am 40 years old and I guarantee I can push him in the 40.
Click to expand...

I guarantee you can not.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
There are a WHOLE lot of things I can't do but one of them isn't running. As a former sprinter I can still pick them up and put them down even as an old man. And like others have said, Bruce could spare to lose a few pounds and isn't exactly a speed demon. Now could I stay with Chris Dickerson, HELL NO!
This post was edited on 6/9 7:30 PM by DK Cat
This post was edited on 6/9 7:50 PM by DK Cat
 
PTI, Bruce is certainly doing nothing to refute your statements. If he keeps struggling the way he is, the Reds have to make a move especially when Encarnacion returns. I never thought I would see the day when even EE looks good right about now. Bruce is completely overwhelmed by major league pitching right now and probably needs to spend a prolong period in Louisville to gain some confidence and a better approach to at bats.
 
Originally posted by DK Cat:
PTI, Bruce is certainly doing nothing to refute your statements. If he keeps struggling the way he is, the Reds have to make a move especially when Encarnacion returns. I never thought I would see the day when even EE looks good right about now. Bruce is completely overwhelmed by major league pitching right now and probably needs to spend a prolong period in Louisville to gain some confidence and a better approach to at bats.
Click to expand...

He has 1 rbi in his last 11 games, which is pathetic.

It's pretty obvious that major league pitching has caught up with him. He's completely useless against lefties, has no idea how to work the count, strikes out far too often, and really does nothing but hit home runs.

Literally, he has become Adam Dunn minus the great on-base % (although he does have, iirc, 4 or 5 walks in the last 3 games).



I think there may be *some* hope for him. There are other free-swinging sluggers in the game who have been very successful. Ryan Braun is the first one that comes to mind.


In 2+ seasons....

320 games / .303 / .360 / .582 / 83 homers / 288 ks / 98 walks


The main difference, imo, is that Braun can hit righties just fine.

vs rhp = .283 / .338 / .536 / 55 homers
vs lhp = .359 / .423 / .716 / 28 homers




But with Jay Bruce's splits vs. lefties, we honestly would be better off starting just about anyone in the organization when a southpaw is on the mound. That's the very definition of a "platoon player."
 
Well, with Dunn we had been losers for almost a decade, so it was time to go in a new direction, and Bruce is that direction. I don't know why a lot of you are thinking he should adjust to major league pitching as fast as another person. He will figure it out. Just like Cueto is figuring our how to pitch now. He was immature last year and let his emotions get the best of him. I think Bruce is in that category. He is obviously pressing because he knows he is better than what this season would indicate. Just be patient with the kid.
 
Originally posted by bigbluecatfan73:
Well, with Dunn we had been losers for almost a decade, so it was time to go in a new direction, and Bruce is that direction. I don't know why a lot of you are thinking he should adjust to major league pitching as fast as another person. He will figure it out. Just like Cueto is figuring our how to pitch now. He was immature last year and let his emotions get the best of him. I think Bruce is in that category. He is obviously pressing because he knows he is better than what this season would indicate. Just be patient with the kid.
Click to expand...

Nobody is ready to give up on the kid, but there is an obvious problem with his swing and his strikeouts. The kid is barely putting the bat on the ball right now. I think he will end up being a .280 guy, 80-90RBI, 25HR type of player. Not bad, but certainly not the next Willie Mayes that everyone was saying he was going to be.

As far as Dunn goes, I find your notion that no team can win with him completely preposterous. Its stupid, actually. Manny Ramirez is arguably one of the worst outfielders I have ever seen play the game. How did his teams do in Cleveland? What about Boston? How did the Dodgers do last year when they got that no-defense playing jackoff??

Dunn has always been surrounded by losers on any team he has played on. Not sure I have ever seen one man carry a team to a World Series title or a Pennant. Adam Dunn would be a great addition to any team that has other good players on it and good pitching. His numbers dont lie, and he has played for some absolutely dreadful teams. Id like to see what he would do in a good lineup.

Hell, Ill bet if the Reds had him this year they would be winning more games.

Not sure why Bruce is such a great defensive player, either. I have seen him drop routine fly balls, fall on his ass and have balls sail over his head, balls slip out of his hands while he is throwing it.

Dunn and Bruce would have coexisted just fine on this Reds team and the Reds would be better off with him.
 
Originally posted by assistbyhawkins:

Originally posted by bigbluecatfan73:
Well, with Dunn we had been losers for almost a decade, so it was time to go in a new direction, and Bruce is that direction. I don't know why a lot of you are thinking he should adjust to major league pitching as fast as another person. He will figure it out. Just like Cueto is figuring our how to pitch now. He was immature last year and let his emotions get the best of him. I think Bruce is in that category. He is obviously pressing because he knows he is better than what this season would indicate. Just be patient with the kid.
Click to expand...

Nobody is ready to give up on the kid, but there is an obvious problem with his swing and his strikeouts. The kid is barely putting the bat on the ball right now. I think he will end up being a .280 guy, 80-90RBI, 25HR type of player. Not bad, but certainly not the next Willie Mayes that everyone was saying he was going to be.

As far as Dunn goes, I find your notion that no team can win with him completely preposterous. Its stupid, actually. Manny Ramirez is arguably one of the worst outfielders I have ever seen play the game. How did his teams do in Cleveland? What about Boston? How did the Dodgers do last year when they got that no-defense playing jackoff??

Dunn has always been surrounded by losers on any team he has played on. Not sure I have ever seen one man carry a team to a World Series title or a Pennant. Adam Dunn would be a great addition to any team that has other good players on it and good pitching. His numbers dont lie, and he has played for some absolutely dreadful teams. Id like to see what he would do in a good lineup.

Hell, Ill bet if the Reds had him this year they would be winning more games.

Not sure why Bruce is such a great defensive player, either. I have seen him drop routine fly balls, fall on his ass and have balls sail over his head, balls slip out of his hands while he is throwing it.

Dunn and Bruce would have coexisted just fine on this Reds team and the Reds would be better off with him.
Click to expand...

I re-read my post three times and no where did it say that NO TEAM could win with Dunn. I just don't think our team, with the people that were around him for so long, could win. And they didn't. All I said was that it was time to go in a new direction. And I wouldn't take Manny on the Reds EVER. And he didn't really become the outfield embarrassment that he was in Boston until it was obvious that he wasn't happy there anymore. And I also believe that a lot of people have dropped balls they should have caught. I have fallen on my ass at times but I don't consider myself unathletic because of it. He is such a good defensive player because he is tied for the ML lead in assists, and gets to balls that a lot of people would let drop in front of them or over their heads. And because he gets to more balls he has a better chance (numbers wise) of making an error.

The thing that pissed me off about Dunn is about a month ago he made some statement that said that he had never been the cornerstone of a lineup before or a veteran leader in the club house or even thought to look at film before this year. That is a load of crap and anyone who knows the Reds for the last 10 years knows that.
 
Jay Bruce also just turned 22. I won't give up on him just yet. He may just end up being a 40 HR guy who bats .250...and plays solid OF. That's not a BAD thing...he's never going to be a dominant hitter like Longoria or David Wright, someone who will have a high OBP and be a thorn to get out every AB.
 
He is 4-for-13 (.308) over his last five games. He’s walked six times in those five games, giving him a .647 on-base over that period.


His patience goes back further. He’s walked nine times in his last nine games. He thinks that has something to do with his record run of success.


“When I felt like I was struggling, I felt like I was trying to hit anything I could reach,” Bruce said. “That’s obviously the scouting report: You don’t have to throw him a strike until he proves otherwise.


“Walking more is going to help because that means I’m seeing pitches better and laying off balls.”

Fay
 
At what point do the Reds look at sending him back to the Vile for a week?
 
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