Jay Bruce sucks.......

[PTI (pti)]

Originally posted by UKandoit:
Jay Bruce is a 22 yr old, playing in his 1st full season in the majors, playing better defensively then Adam ever hoped to play, struggling at the plate yet on pace to hit 40+ dingers(quick, name me all the 22 yr olds who have hit 40 hrs in the history of mlb?)& also appears to have a good additude and is apparently a good teamate...yet some will already try to point to his failures. The kid is still learning and I'll think I'll wait before I decide to dismiss him as just another Dunn-like or less performer. Put it this way, put this kid on the trading block and watch em line up to get this guy. No way you can justifyably say this kid sucks at this point in his career.

Yes, he's only 22 years old - which is why I am making such an issue of his minor league numbers as well.

- he's ridiculously bad against lefties
- he strikes out at an alarming rate
- he very very rarely walks

These facts are indisputable. Sure, he may eventually "iron out the kinks." He may "get it all figured out." Maybe he'll "straighten out his swing." But he has done *nothing* in his 5+ years of professional baseball to suggest that there is any hope in doing so. Sorry, but don't shoot the messenger.


And if his trade value really is sky high, Walt Jocketty needs to jump all over that asap.

Another interesting stat, by the way. In their professional careers....

Bruce = 48 steals / 32 caught stealing (60% success rate)
ADunn = 119 steals / 41 caught stealing (74.4% success rate)

 

[AfroGerman Santa]

Originally posted by K-GAR:
BOttom line is that Bruce is heading more and more down the line of Dunn minus the walks ---> not good.
This post was edited on 6/4 4:11 AM by K-GAR

If you're going to say he's nothing but Dunn minus the walks, you have to include the defense he plays.

I'm a defense first baseball fan so this is a sticking point with me. (Lack of) defense is the reason why I hated Dunn and defense is the reason why I haven't thrown in the towel on Bruce.

If Dunn played defense like Bruce, I would be pissed we got rid of him and I'd be defending him in this thread. If Bruce played defense like Dunn I'd want his ass gone yesterday.

To me it's as ridiculous as saying Ron Artest is nothing but Kiki Vandeweghe minus the 3 PT FG%.

 

[DK Cat]

Originally posted by AfroGerman Santa:

Originally posted by K-GAR:
BOttom line is that Bruce is heading more and more down the line of Dunn minus the walks ---> not good.

This post was edited on 6/4 4:11 AM by K-GAR

If you're going to say he's nothing but Dunn minus the walks, you have to include the defense he plays.

I'm a defense first baseball fan so this is a sticking point with me. (Lack of) defense is the reason why I hated Dunn and defense is the reason why I haven't thrown in the towel on Bruce.

If Dunn played defense like Bruce, I would be pissed we got rid of him and I'd be defending him in this thread. If Bruce played defense like Dunn I'd want his ass gone yesterday.

To me it's as ridiculous as saying Ron Artest is nothing but Kiki Vandeweghe minus the 3 PT FG%.

I agree, nothing bothers me more than a big league player misplaying a fly ball or missing a cutoff man. Dunn's defense was even more magnified when Griffey played because you basically had 2 corner outfielders who covered absolutely no ground and routinely played would be outs into basehits. With that being said, Bruce definitely needs to start picking it up. He looks totally clueless at the plate.

 

[PTI (pti)]

** bigbluefatty is getting a hard-on **


1> Corey Patterson (CF)
2> Orlando Cabrera (SS)
3> Jay Bruce (RF)
4> Adrian Beltre (3B)
5> Doug Mientkiewicz (1B)
6> Jeff Francoeur (LF)
7> David Eckstein (2B)
8> Brad Ausmus (C)


Pitching and defense wins championships.

 

[JumperJack]

He's way too young to say he sucks. Barely played a full year. 35 HR in less 158 games, while hitting poorly against lefties. He'll figure it out.

 

[PTI (pti)]

Originally posted by JumperJack:
He'll figure it out.

Based on what?

Been a professional for 5+ years. He's *never* hit lefties. He's *never* learned to work the count. He's *always* been a huge strikeout guy.



If you think he'll figure it out --> why?

 

[UKandoit]

The following power hitters are players who failed to hit at least 40 hr by the age of 22:

Babe Ruth
Lou Gehrig
K. Griffey jr.
Willie Mays
Mickey Mantle
Ted Williams
Hank Aaron
Jimmy Foxx

Exceptions to this would be: Alex Rodriguez, Eddie Mathews & Mel Ott.

IF(nothing is certain) Jay Bruce does hit at least 40 hr this season then he will be in a select group for sure. Does this mean I think he can't be a better hitter for Avg? No, it does not but it does mean I think he he is a long long way from someone who'd I would say "sucks". Just my opinion. PS. You can also add Barry Bonds, Mark Mcguire & Frank Robinson to the list of those failing to hit 40 Hr by age 22.
This post was edited on 6/4 2:35 PM by UKandoit

 

[bigbluefattycat]

Originally posted by PTI (pti):
** bigbluefatty is getting a hard-on **


1> Corey Patterson (CF)
2> Orlando Cabrera (SS)
3> Jay Bruce (RF)
4> Adrian Beltre (3B)
5> Doug Mientkiewicz (1B)
6> Jeff Francoeur (LF)
7> David Eckstein (2B)
8> Brad Ausmus (C)


Pitching and defense wins championships.

That line up will beat any team with Fat Donkey in left and batting in the middle of the line up. Fat Donkey = bad baseball team. Reds sucked for how many years with Donkey? Arizona goes from contender to bust as soon as they get the donkey. Washington will never win. Donkey = bad baseball. He gives you nothing but a lazy attitude and a bad contract but hey your fantasy team will come in 2nd place.

PTI was screaming how we gonna replace the Donkey's numbers. This line up sucks. We continue to throw a terrible line up on the field night in and night out yet we are on pace to score more runs this year than last. Take your 40 hrs and 100 walks to the last place Nationals.

You want stats try looking at the 90 Reds team and find me a player with 40 homers. Stats don't win baseball games. Players do.

Is Bruce struggling? Yes. Has Donkey struggled just like Bruce every year? Yes.

Difference? One can help you win games in the field. The other cost you more games than you can imagine because you can't tell what baseball is unless there is a stat for it.

Stats are for losers and fantasy geeks that like to make up line ups from stats.

 

[PTI (pti)]

Originally posted by UKandoit:
The following power hitters are players who failed to hit at least 40 hr by the age of 22:

Babe Ruth
Lou Gehrig
K. Griffey jr.
Willie Mays
Mickey Mantle
Ted Williams
Hank Aaron
Jimmy Foxx

Exceptions to this would be: Alex Rodriguez, Eddie Mathews & Mel Ott.

Here are some other hitters that failed to hit 40 homers by the age of 22:

- Braulio Castillo
- Bernardo Brito
- Spike Owen
- Vance Law
- Rusty Koontz
- Odibe Mcdowell
- Phil Plantier


(more irrelevant names)



Okay, I'll admit once again that I'm going a little overboard by saying that Jay Bruce "sucks." But you guys who are sticking up for him are *completely* fooling yourselves, and ignoring 5+ years of statistical data when you're evaluating his performance.




Jay Bruce strikes out at an ALARMINGLY high rate. Fact. If he's all-of-a-sudden going to "get it figured out," what exactly would lead you to believe this?

Jay Bruce walks at an ALARMINGLY low rate. Fact. If he's all-of-a-sudden going to "get it figured out," what exactly would lead you to believe this?


Look, all I'm doing is relaying the data. It's right there in black-and-white. Check it out for yourselves. He very well could become a great hitter one day. But the fact is, in 5+ years of professional baseball, there has been nothing he has done to prove me otherwise.

 

[UKandoit]

nm
This post was edited on 6/4 2:46 PM by UKandoit

 

[DK Cat]

Originally posted by PTI (pti):

Originally posted by JumperJack:
He'll figure it out.

Based on what?

Been a professional for 5+ years. He's *never* hit lefties. He's *never* learned to work the count. He's *always* been a huge strikeout guy.



If you think he'll figure it out --> why?

You are correct. Until Bruce corrects his swing, he will continue to K at an alarming pace and I don't care how old he is. If you remember when he first came up, he was constantly spraying line drives to left field. Now he is trying to pull everything.
Somebody needs to tell him to cut back on his swing because it is way too long. Now he has plenty of time to adjust, but he won't be able to do it with his current swing.
I've always been tickled that he was labeled a 5 tool player because he simply isn't that fleet of foot. I would say a little above average speed at best. Hope the kid turns it around but he has a long, long way to go.

 

[UKandoit]

Originally posted by DK Cat:

Originally posted by PTI (pti):

Originally posted by JumperJack:
He'll figure it out.

Based on what?

Been a professional for 5+ years. He's *never* hit lefties. He's *never* learned to work the count. He's *always* been a huge strikeout guy.



If you think he'll figure it out --> why?

You are correct. Until Bruce corrects his swing, he will continue to K at an alarming pace and I don't care how old he is. If you remember when he first came up, he was constantly spraying line drives to left field. Now he is trying to pull everything.
Somebody needs to tell him to cut back on his swing because it is way too long. Now he has plenty of time to adjust, but he won't be able to do it with his current swing.
I've always been tickled that he was labeled a 5 tool player because he simply isn't that fleet of foot. I would say a little above average speed at best. Hope the kid turns it around but he has a long, long way to go.

...and at the young age of 22 he has a long time to get there.

 

[UKandoit]

Originally posted by PTI (pti):

Originally posted by UKandoit:
The following power hitters are players who failed to hit at least 40 hr by the age of 22:

Babe Ruth
Lou Gehrig
K. Griffey jr.
Willie Mays
Mickey Mantle
Ted Williams
Hank Aaron
Jimmy Foxx

Exceptions to this would be: Alex Rodriguez, Eddie Mathews & Mel Ott.

Here are some other hitters that failed to hit 40 homers by the age of 22:

- Braulio Castillo
- Bernardo Brito
- Spike Owen
- Vance Law
- Rusty Koontz
- Odibe Mcdowell
- Phil Plantier


(more irrelevant names)



Okay, I'll admit once again that I'm going a little overboard by saying that Jay Bruce "sucks." But you guys who are sticking up for him are *completely* fooling yourselves, and ignoring 5+ years of statistical data when you're evaluating his performance.




Jay Bruce strikes out at an ALARMINGLY high rate. Fact. If he's all-of-a-sudden going to "get it figured out," what exactly would lead you to believe this?

Jay Bruce walks at an ALARMINGLY low rate. Fact. If he's all-of-a-sudden going to "get it figured out," what exactly would lead you to believe this?


Look, all I'm doing is relaying the data. It's right there in black-and-white. Check it out for yourselves. He very well could become a great hitter one day. But the fact is, in 5+ years of professional baseball, there has been nothing he has done to prove me otherwise.

Impressive list of Historic power hitters to back up your opinion. Nevertheless, none of us know at this point what kind of player JB will ultimately end up being...just not enough data available at this point and time to form an honest opinion. In that regard, he's a lot like the several other hundreds of MLB players who at this point and time have yet to proven themselves over a long period of time. It definitely doesn't mean he's HOF material but nor does it mean he sucks. Only time will tell. As far as you admitting "once again" that you might be going overboard regrading the "sucks" statement, I guessed I missed that original backpedal.

 

[sinker16]

I hadn't realized his OBP had fell below .300, thats not good, but he is still slugging .474 and has been pretty unlucky. I believe he will be fine.

 

[JumperJack]

Originally posted by PTI (pti):

Originally posted by JumperJack:
He'll figure it out.

Based on what?

Been a professional for 5+ years. He's *never* hit lefties. He's *never* learned to work the count. He's *always* been a huge strikeout guy.



If you think he'll figure it out --> why?

Each of those years, he was rising a level at a time.

He basically has not had a real chance to make adjustments. When you're rising so fast, you don't really have to, anyway. But, he's now at the top of the ladder. He has nothing to do from this point BUT to make adjustments, refine his swing.

A few people have noted his BABIP stats. I don't really like the moneyball crap but I do agree he'll start looking better as he turns fly balls into line drives.

As he gets more swings, as he sees more pitchers, as he gets better at strike zone recognition, and (key) as he starts to listen and learn how to approach his AB's, he'll get better. And as you said yourself, his numbers v. lefties have nowhere to go but up.

If he's 27 and those numbers haven't changed then yeah I agree.

 

[UKandoit]

^^^Good post JJ and I concur. When you are trying to asess young players you assume that most of that is taken into account. Evidently not everyone takes those things into consideration.

 

[Boski_P]

Bruce BABIP is .206. Around .100 lower than what history shows to be the average. .206 is abnormally low and will only rise as the season progresses.

PTI just has some sort of anti-Bruce agenda, ignore his asshattery.

 

[crawfords corner]

He is young despite 5 years of pro ball. The one thing I find irritating about him is his base running. He flat out sucks at this point in his career. He seems to just fall asleep out there on the base path.

 

[PTI (pti)]

Originally posted by crawfords corner:
He is young despite 5 years of pro ball. The one thing I find irritating about him is his base running. He flat out sucks at this point in his career. He seems to just fall asleep out there on the base path.

No he's not. He's a got great speed. He never ever ever ever actually shows it, but it's there. Just ask bigbluefatty.

Boski, those are interesting numbers, and I agree his batting average will eventually improve (I mean, it has to improve --> he's hitting .212, for god's sake). But he'll likely never be able to hit lefties, or work the count.


By the way, he's now 1 for his last 27. Ouch.

 

[bigbluefattycat]

Originally posted by PTI (pti):

Originally posted by crawfords corner:
He is young despite 5 years of pro ball. The one thing I find irritating about him is his base running. He flat out sucks at this point in his career. He seems to just fall asleep out there on the base path.

No he's not. He's a got great speed. He never ever ever ever actually shows it, but it's there. Just ask bigbluefatty.

Boski, those are interesting numbers, and I agree his batting average will eventually improve (I mean, it has to improve --> he's hitting .212, for god's sake). But he'll likely never be able to hit lefties, or work the count.


By the way, he's now 1 for his last 27. Ouch.

Great speed? No. Better speed than Fat Donkey? Well who doesn't. Bruce had enough speed to start his career in cf. Which means he has above average speed for a right fielder. He covers a lot of ground in the outfield which means less hits for the other team and that equals better pitching. Better pitching and defense = wins. Fat Donkey in left = losses and a lot of them. Funny how you never bashed Fat Donkey for going through the same type of slumps. Bruce will hit his way out of it or he will get out. He doesn't kill your team because he can still do things to help you win. When Fat Donkey goes through the same type of slump and trust me he does it at least twice a year he still kills you in the field even when he is hitting.

The bad part about this whole thread is that I agreed with you in the earlier post about his batting numbers are close to Dunn's. Beavis and I have said as much for a couple of weeks. Go back and read the thread. I even defended you saying that this post wasn't stupid because the Reds have yet to develop a hitter. Yet you still attack me with your stupid fantasy stats that Dunn is a better baseball player than Bruce. Wrong. Dunn is a better fantasy baseball player because you don't have to count on him to win or play defense. All you have to do is punch in his meaningless numbers. Good luck in your fantasy league.

 

[DK Cat]

Originally posted by PTI (pti):

Originally posted by crawfords corner:
He is young despite 5 years of pro ball. The one thing I find irritating about him is his base running. He flat out sucks at this point in his career. He seems to just fall asleep out there on the base path.

No he's not. He's a got great speed. He never ever ever ever actually shows it, but it's there. Just ask bigbluefatty.

Boski, those are interesting numbers, and I agree his batting average will eventually improve (I mean, it has to improve --> he's hitting .212, for god's sake). But he'll likely never be able to hit lefties, or work the count.


By the way, he's now 1 for his last 27. Ouch.

Like I said in a previous post, when Jay was labeled a 5 tool player they must have forgot about the speed thing. I am 40 years old and I guarantee I can push him in the 40. If he ever steals more than 20 bases in a season I will be shocked. I still think Bruce will be a solid player but I am still not sold on him being a future star.

 

[PTI (pti)]

Jay Bruce's on-base % is now all the way down to .290.

Adam Dunn is currently at .382.




Fatty, I'm all about "small ball," too. I love pitching and defense and guys like Jerry Hairston who "play the game the right way," but you're underestimating how much impact (or lack thereof) an individual player has on the game in the 4-5 times he walks up to the plate with a bat in his hands.


Adam Dunn is *horrible* defensively, but Jay Bruce isn't exactly Willie Mays, either. And the only way they would have the same overall impact on the game is if Adam Dunn were so poor defensively that the Washington Nationals sat his ass on the bench and played 9 full innings with only 2 outfielders, simply because Jay Bruce has just been that incredibly inept at the dish so far this season.



.290???? Steve Balboni's career on-base % was higher than that, for god's sake.

 

[krazykats]

The commentator in last nights game hit the nail on the head with Bruce. Right now it looks more like Jay thinks he should be able to hit every pitch, and tries to. Once he realizes he dont have to swing at breaking balls until he gets 2 strikes he will be in way better counts. That will result in better pitches to hit which in turn will improve the avg.

I think he will work it out just based on the fact that his pedigree is to one day be a top player. No evidence from the past to back it up just speculation.

Also I will add that the biggest problem with Donk and Whif wasnt their production, but their placement in the lineup and salary. If Dunn was doing what he did at 3-4 million thats a bargain. So Bruce aint a disappointment until he expects that contract.

 

[bigbluefattycat]

Originally posted by PTI (pti):
Jay Bruce's on-base % is now all the way down to .290.

Adam Dunn is currently at .382.




Fatty, I'm all about "small ball," too. I love pitching and defense and guys like Jerry Hairston who "play the game the right way," but you're underestimating how much impact (or lack thereof) an individual player has on the game in the 4-5 times he walks up to the plate with a bat in his hands.


Adam Dunn is *horrible* defensively, but Jay Bruce isn't exactly Willie Mays, either. And the only way they would have the same overall impact on the game is if Adam Dunn were so poor defensively that the Washington Nationals sat his ass on the bench and played 9 full innings with only 2 outfielders, simply because Jay Bruce has just been that incredibly inept at the dish so far this season.



.290???? Steve Balboni's career on-base % was higher than that, for god's sake.

Let me tell you the impact of Adam Dunn's bat. Last place. The Nationals should play 2 outfielders because they technically are with Fat Donkey in left. They already tried to move him to first. Mistake. Like I have said 100 times before Adam Dunn will never play on a winning team batting in the middle of the line up and playing the field on daily basis. NEVER.
This post was edited on 6/5 4:57 PM by bigbluefattycat

 

[UKandoit]

Fat Donkey = best poster boy ever for the DH even though he's never been one.

 

[sinker16]

Originally posted by bigbluefattycat:

Originally posted by PTI (pti):
Jay Bruce's on-base % is now all the way down to .290.

Adam Dunn is currently at .382.




Fatty, I'm all about "small ball," too. I love pitching and defense and guys like Jerry Hairston who "play the game the right way," but you're underestimating how much impact (or lack thereof) an individual player has on the game in the 4-5 times he walks up to the plate with a bat in his hands.


Adam Dunn is *horrible* defensively, but Jay Bruce isn't exactly Willie Mays, either. And the only way they would have the same overall impact on the game is if Adam Dunn were so poor defensively that the Washington Nationals sat his ass on the bench and played 9 full innings with only 2 outfielders, simply because Jay Bruce has just been that incredibly inept at the dish so far this season.



.290???? Steve Balboni's career on-base % was higher than that, for god's sake.

Let me tell you the impact of Adam Dunn's bat. Last place. The Nationals should play 2 outfielders because they technically are with Fat Donkey in left. They already tried to move him to first. Mistake. Like I have said 100 times before Adam Dunn will never play on a winning team batting in the middle of the line up and playing the field on daily basis. NEVER.

This post was edited on 6/5 4:57 PM by bigbluefattycat

The Nats are in last place because of Dunn...right

x1 million

 

[bigbluefattycat]

^Adam Dunn batting in the middle of the line up and playing the field every day = losing team. The stats don't lie. Ask Arizona how their playoff hopes were sat on by a Fat Donkey. Talk to me when he bats in the middle of the line up and plays the field every day for a winning team. Not going to happen. He might not be the reason they lose but he sure as hell won't be the reason they win. That is the impact Adam Dunn's fantasy numbers have on a line up. ZERO.

 

[ScaryEnigma]

Wish we had Colby Rasmus instead of Bruce

 

[bigbluefattycat]

Originally posted by ScaryEnigma:
Wish we had Colby Rasmus instead of Bruce

I wish we had the Cardinals farm system more. They know how to develop players to play the right way. They come up fundamentally sound. Bruce is here on pure talent.

 

[UKO]

Originally posted by Jeff Drummond:
Dunn was always a very productive player in the only stats that mattered: scoring runs and driving them in.

....not when it mattered. Dunn's "production" has always been overstated by those who simply look at the numbers.

Jay Bruce.....just finished his "first full year"....wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too early to pull off an ignorant post like PTI did to start this thread.

 

[DK Cat]

Originally posted by UKO:

Originally posted by Jeff Drummond:
Dunn was always a very productive player in the only stats that mattered: scoring runs and driving them in.

....not when it mattered. Dunn's "production" has always been overstated by those who simply look at the numbers.

Jay Bruce.....just finished his "first full year"....wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too early to pull off an ignorant post like PTI did to start this thread.

I agree as I said in a previous post that baseball stats can be incredibly deceiving. Dunn and Griffey were both great at hitting the 3 run homer when the Reds were up 5 or down 6 runs. In clutch situations there stats went way, way down. Dunn was downright horrific when it came to driving in the runner from third with less than 2 outs. Give me the guy who drives in clutch 2 out runs all day long over the guys who freeze up in the clutch but pile up the big stats.
If Bruce is still floundering around the Mendoza line in another month, I'll start to really be concerned. More than anything now that Votto is gone, he is pressing and losing CONFIDENCE.

 

[ScaryEnigma]

At least Dunn would slide into home plate. Will someone please explain why the "lazy" dunn can slide into home or crush the catcher but Bruce won't????

Tonights game makes twice he goes in standing up. First time he gets thrown out in a game earlier in the season and gets an ear full from Dusty. Tonight he scores thanks to the throw being off line. He is very lucky.

If he gets tagged there standing up dusty would have blown up.

 

[trueBLUE0333]

I have now benched Bruce for Kendry Morales.

He doesn't suck, but he is really, really, struggling. It may not be a bad idea to send him down for a few games ot get his act together. We can live with Hairston/Dickerson/Taveras/Nix in the OF for 2 or 3 games

 

[ukrulz]

Originally posted by bigbluefattycat:
There is a reason that Dunn has never played for a winner.

Uh, he's only played for the Reds and Nationals (sans the 1/4 of a season in Arizona). No offense, but being as baseball is a team sport, the guy's never really had a realistic chance. The Reds wouldn't have gone from finishing 15-20 games under .500 to winning pennants, had you replaced Dunn with Barry Bonds.

BTW, the Nationals offense isn't bad. Their pitching, on the other hand, is DEAD LAST in baseball. That being the case, if "pitching and defense wins baseball games," why do keep pointing out that Dunn is playing for a last place team, as if he's a major reason why?

 

[Beavis606]

Originally posted by ukrulz:
No offense, but being as baseball is a team sport, the guy's never really had a realistic chance. The Reds wouldn't have gone from finishing 15-20 games under .500 to winning pennants, had you replaced Dunn with Barry Bonds.

The two years before Dunn, the Reds were 29 and 8 games, respectively, over .500. The year after Dunn, the Reds are on a pace to finish 8 games over .500. The Reds had losing seasons all 8 years Dunn was here. Coincidence? I think not.

This post was edited on 6/7 12:08 AM by Beavis13

 

[ukrulz]

ERA's during the Dunn era...

2008-4.55
2007-4.95
2006-4.53
2005-5.18
2004-5.21
2003-5.09
2002-4.29
2001-4.78

ERA in the two years prior to Dunn? 4.33 and 3.99. ERA this year? 4.01.

So, during the Dunn era, the Reds average ERA was 4.82. It was 4.11 in the years you pointed out. Coincidence?

 

[bigbluefattycat]

Originally posted by ukrulz:

Originally posted by bigbluefattycat:
There is a reason that Dunn has never played for a winner.

Uh, he's only played for the Reds and Nationals (sans the 1/4 of a season in Arizona). No offense, but being as baseball is a team sport, the guy's never really had a realistic chance. The Reds wouldn't have gone from finishing 15-20 games under .500 to winning pennants, had you replaced Dunn with Barry Bonds.

BTW, the Nationals offense isn't bad. Their pitching, on the other hand, is DEAD LAST in baseball. That being the case, if "pitching and defense wins baseball games," why do keep pointing out that Dunn is playing for a last place team, as if he's a major reason why?

As many others have pointed out for me with the ERA of a Dunn lead outfield you can't have good pitching without good defense. How hard is that to understand? Arizona was on pace to make the playoffs and were above .500. They get Fat Donkey and all of sudden they suck. Nationals were going to go with speed and youth last year. Leatherpants ruined that franchise just like he ruined this one. 10 mil for Fat Donkey when nobody else would touch him. Why would Arizona give up what they did and not try to sign him?

If you want a bad pitching staff than play Dunn in the field. I will say it again no team with Fat Donkey playing in the field every day and batting in the middle of the line up will have a winning season.

 

[ukrulz]

Originally posted by bigbluefattycat:

Originally posted by ukrulz:

Originally posted by bigbluefattycat:
There is a reason that Dunn has never played for a winner.

Uh, he's only played for the Reds and Nationals (sans the 1/4 of a season in Arizona). No offense, but being as baseball is a team sport, the guy's never really had a realistic chance. The Reds wouldn't have gone from finishing 15-20 games under .500 to winning pennants, had you replaced Dunn with Barry Bonds.

BTW, the Nationals offense isn't bad. Their pitching, on the other hand, is DEAD LAST in baseball. That being the case, if "pitching and defense wins baseball games," why do keep pointing out that Dunn is playing for a last place team, as if he's a major reason why?

As many others have pointed out for me with the ERA of a Dunn lead outfield you can't have good pitching without good defense. How hard is that to understand? Arizona was on pace to make the playoffs and were above .500. They get Fat Donkey and all of sudden they suck. Nationals were going to go with speed and youth last year. Leatherpants ruined that franchise just like he ruined this one. 10 mil for Fat Donkey when nobody else would touch him. Why would Arizona give up what they did and not try to sign him?

If you want a bad pitching staff than play Dunn in the field. I will say it again no team with Fat Donkey playing in the field every day and batting in the middle of the line up will have a winning season.

 

[bigbluefattycat]

^Obviously you haven't watched Dunn for a full season. Reds fans have watched him for 8 and they can tell you that he is by far the worst left fielder in the league. Arm, speed, reaction, hell you name it.

 

[DK Cat]

Originally posted by bigbluefattycat:
^Obviously you haven't watched Dunn for a full season. Reds fans have watched him for 8 and they can tell you that he is by far the worst left fielder in the league. Arm, speed, reaction, hell you name it.

You will get ABSOLUTELY no argument from me Fattycat.