Zion wasn’t even considering UK

[Son_Of_Saul]

We just put three freshman into the lottery, quite deservedly so I will add just like seven months ago. The team on the floor was the #2 class. The recruits we have coming in are all skilled perimeter players that can shoot and score that each showed they really wanted to play here.
Also, as of the moment we would be one over. Granted, I don't buy that concern holds up but we are probably going to return a few guys no matter what.

It is damn hard to argue some systemic meltdown of talent evaluation, acquisition, or development of top talent when on a non reactionary basis we are in a unparalleled run including right now despite Duke having back to back crazy but yet to play out years.

It’s clearly deeper than that. The critiques aren’t just based on Duke obliterating us in head-to-head recruiting battles. The critiques also follow a sample size that exhibits a near complete cupboard clearing for kids who are in the program two years or less. Even guys like Humphries are bolting at the first sign of professional daylight.

In such an environment, you need top 5 kids to challenge for titles. The Monk/Fox group, for all the talk about how close they were, still didn’t get it done because they were missing a crucial piece here or there. The same can be said for ’10, ’11, ’14 (I give '15 a pass because of Poythress going down). All close, but no cigar. It took Anthony Davis (a true transcendent kid) and his entourage of fellow draft picks, including some vets, to make it happen. They also were really the only complete team besides the '15 team I've seen Cal put together here. Notice how those two teams combined to go 76-3?

So, if UK starts trending in the direction where the majority of kids stay, that’s great. But the sample size has featured a plethora of Harrison, Goodwin, Teague, Johnson, Briscoe, Humphries, Lamb, etc. all leave when it was clear they had room to develop.

I think UK loses 4-5 this summer. That’s the trend, and that’s the narrative that’s being sold to these kids on the recruiting front.

NBA

NBA

NBA


And then when Matthews transfers over lack of playing time or Briscoe leaves for the G-League, Cal and his staff can’t believe what just happened.

So, no systemic breakdown, but if UK doesn’t land top 5 kids, it also kills Kentucky’s realistic chances at a title and will continue to do so until fringe NBA kids start returning in larger quantities. The sample size has shown this to be true, and if fans like you are okay with that, that’s fine for you, but most fans are clearly not.

 

[Willy4UK]

#1 next year Vernon Carey attends HS at a place called University School.

Sounds like a wonderful high school.

 

[Cindog28]

If he was no longer considering UK, then I think he should have at least told Quickley so he wouldn't make some last "recruiting pitch" to his best friend.

D-move.

 

[T.H.S Waldcat]

All the talk about Zion was that he was gonna stay home and play his one year of college basketball. If he decided to leave home it would be Kentucky. Clemson was the hot pick then late talk of North and South Carolina everyone assumed Duke was out because of Reddish and Barret. Duke and North Carolina are out of state but still close to home if anyone should be mad it's the other 3 schools not us. Geography hurt us not team bad mojo. Duke paranoia is bad already being crowned back to back champs and it's only January.

 

[FrankUnderwood]

I’m not sure how going to this extreme adds to the discussion. It’s perfectly reasonable to critique the current assistant coaches without falling back to an extremist implication that we should remain silent because we could easily be back in the dark ages of the Billy Clyde era.


Cal’s not going to quit the UK job over message board discussions or call-in-show comments. Some of our fans keep mixing their lack of emotional stability with Calipari’s.

Good post and i definitely agree but to be fair we’ve had a large handful of “fans” literally calling for Cal to be fired/ replaced since yesterday.

 

[Cindog28]

She was reading it to him Hannibal.. Poor fella made it with basketball..

Imagine Bagley and Zion in a room together...

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Good post and i definitely agree but to be fair we’ve had a large handful of “fans” literally calling for Cal to be fired/ replaced since yesterday.

Trolls and posers, mostly. Legit fans understand Cal is a gem that is worth every penny.


I think what we’re seeing is a fanbase that has followed Cal’s lead and ultimately bought into the OAD, just like he had hoped we would. We embraced the system and finally understand that it was the lifeblood of what he is doing here.

But when the staff fails to land elite guys in such a system, I’m not sure why the coaching staff would be surprised when the same fans who support OAD and have grown to appreciate it, suddenly ask why we aren’t landing the elite of the elite; or as Cal would say, “the best of the best.”

Can’t have it both ways. If we see a mass exodus this summer (4 or more guys), the blowback will be unreal. Cal’s staunchest proponents will ask us to temper our criticisms, and the only line of defense they’ll have is telling us how we could get another Billy G if we’re not careful, or how many games Cal’s won since he’s been at UK.

Again, Cal created this Frankenstein monster of “I want 1/3 of the NBA All-Stars” and “we move the needle”, etc. Those notions are great if you’re doing what you do best, and that’s land OAD. When that stops happening regarding the elite of the elite, fans will start raising eyebrows.


Why some of our fans don’t get that is truly the most mystifying aspect of all of this. The culture that we’re seeing today is one that directly correlates to a foundation crafted and cultivated by Calipari himself. We’re officially acolytes of the OAD system. With that, comes the desire to actually land OAD elites.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Imagine Bagley and Zion in a room together...

But does it matter? Bagley’s a future all-star and Zion is the type of recruit that would have brought unparalleled promise and hype to UK next year.

We don’t knock Bledsoe for his lukewarm test scores. I’d take Bagley or Zion in a second.

 

[TheBlueDisciple]

He'll be at duke anyway no need to worry about it

To be fair, fake classes and a fake school seems right in line with the Carolina way.

 

[Dirk2Bowie]

I'd like to see Rose here. (Although it was a push-off and Delk was robbed)Aside from Antigua's loss I thought we lost a little something when Rod Strickland had to hit the road. Rose would replace that and then some. Penny wouldn't be a slouch either.

 

[Blueblood22]

You gotta think Capel is using Knox' struggles as ammo to brainwash Zion and Barrett.

Also it's weird how these kids say "Duke has always been my dream school" after they commit. Does K take them to some kinda dungeon on their official visits where they brainwash these kids and erase all their prior memories to ones where the kids were die hard Duke fans their whole lives?

 

[GonzoCat90]

His dad said they never had a list, never put out a list, and never told anyone a list until yesterday after the announcement.

The only 4 schools he was considering (says his dad) were Duke, UNC, USC, and Clemson.

His dad also said he woke up that day and flipped a coin. You can't believe what they say during or even after the fact.

I would think you could look at who we expect to return for next year and understand why a combo forward wouldn't come here.

 

[GonzoCat90]

Vernon Carey is the number 1 player.

lol you're not even trying at this point.

 

[jeffbuckies]

To be fair, fake classes and a fake school seems right in line with the Carolina way.

Yes, but graduating high school in 2 months and taking online courses at NC Central is right in line with the #Brotherhood. That and pissing away a young man's future by never letting them off the bench.

 

[TankedCat]

I'd like to see Rose here. (Although it was a push-off and Delk was robbed)Aside from Antigua's loss I thought we lost a little something when Rod Strickland had to hit the road. Rose would replace that and then some. Penny wouldn't be a slouch either.

I'd love to see Rose or Penny here but really, what are the chances that either one of them, as a former star in college and the NBA just happens to be the kind of guy to grind away non stop on the recruiting trail? Its certainly possible....

 

[anon_leeghhkp6kfu6]

His dad also said he woke up that day and flipped a coin. You can't believe what they say during or even after the fact.

I would think you could look at who we expect to return for next year and understand why a combo forward wouldn't come here.

But he’d go to a school where two other elite wings better than anyone we have on the roster or are bringing in are already committed?

Our roster isn’t any more intimidating to Zion than Duke’s is. Duke just won.

 

[Neue Regel]

I have not posted anything about this recruit but did want to say that I think what happened in 2015 is a non-factor. Why do I say that? well, as much as it PAINS me to say this. Has UNC not been the best program in the past two seasons getting to back to back NCAA Championship games and winning one? if the NCAA'S had that much weight shouldn't Carolina fans be just as pissed at the decision as anyone outside of Clemson fans?

Just a thought.

 

[GonzoCat90]

But he’d go to a school where two other elite wings better than anyone we have on the roster or are bringing in are already committed?

Our roster isn’t any more intimidating to Zion than Duke’s is. Duke just won.

I'm sure the plan is that Barrett, Reddish and Zion play the 2-4 positions, which Zion seeing himself as a 3/4 while the other guys play the 2 and whichever spot he isn't occupying.

At Kentucky, he sees Vanderbilt, Washington, Gabriel, SKJ at those 3-4-5 spots with Johnson committed and likely to play the 3 because of the depth at the 1-2 with SGA, Green, Quickley, Herro and Baker.

Duke's guys are all listed as SF, but they don't all play that way. We just have too many bodies if no one leaves, and I think that's what caused us to really fall out of the recruitment, especially for a kid who already wanted to stay close to home.

Duke was just the best of both worlds. Close, playing time, elite program, big stage, great coach. It's a good fit whether we like it or not. Something doesn't have to be "wrong" for that to be true.

 

[anon_leeghhkp6kfu6]

I'm sure the plan is that Barrett, Reddish and Zion play the 2-4 positions, which Zion seeing himself as a 3/4 while the other guys play the 2 and whichever spot he isn't occupying.

At Kentucky, he sees Vanderbilt, Washington, Gabriel, SKJ at those 3-4-5 spots with Johnson committed and likely to play the 3 because of the depth at the 1-2 with SGA, Green, Quickley, Herro and Baker.

Duke's guys are all listed as SF, but they don't all play that way. We just have too many bodies if no one leaves, and I think that's what caused us to really fall out of the recruitment, especially for a kid who already wanted to stay close to home.

Duke was just the best of both worlds. Close, playing time, elite program, big stage, great coach. It's a good fit whether we like it or not. Something doesn't have to be "wrong" for that to be true.

Barrett and Reddish are both going to spend plenty of time at SF. They’ve locked up the majority of the minutes at the two wing spots, meaning Zion is gonna have to spend a lot of time at the 4. Even if they play him on the perimeter with Barrett and Reddish both in, he’s still going to have to match up against other 4s.

I just think Duke had two more natural/talented wing forwards than anyone on our roster. I don’t see our roster as any more of a deterrent than Duke’s would have been.

 

[GonzoCat90]

Barrett and Reddish are both going to spend plenty of time at SF. They’ve locked up the majority of the minutes at the two wing spots, meaning Zion is gonna have to spend a lot of time at the 4. Even if they play him on the perimeter with Barrett and Reddish both in, he’s still going to have to match up against other 4s.

I just think Duke had two more natural/talented wing forwards than anyone on our roster. I don’t see our roster as any more of a deterrent than Duke’s would have been.

They have two guys better than anyone we have, I agree, but that still leaves a spot and big minutes for Zion. If you're a top 5 kid, you will play alongside great players for 34 minutes before you'll share minutes with 4-5 players at your position.

Even if Zion is better than our guys, they would still play reserve minutes. No coach is going to bury a returner the quality of our guys on the bench. It's a numbers issue, not a quality issue.

 

[anon_leeghhkp6kfu6]

They have two guys better than anyone we have, I agree, but that still leaves a spot and big minutes for Zion. If you're a top 5 kid, you will play alongside great players for 34 minutes before you'll share minutes with 4-5 players at your position.

Even if Zion is better than our guys, they would still play reserve minutes. No coach is going to bury a returner the quality of our guys on the bench. It's a numbers issue, not a quality issue.

We’ll have to agree to disagree here I think.

 

[smithn]

Being a UNC guy, I didn't care where he went as long as it wasn't Duke. Duke has embraced the OAD and is beating Cal at his on game. Slime all Capel kicking everyones ass.

 

[Jbapp1978]

Yup.

Any player that goes to Duke has a bitch mentality. Wanna go dance with Grayson? Do embarrassing skits?

What kills me is Duke always got the best, dorky, affluent players. Now, they’re getting players that would normally be embarrassed to wear a Duke uniform.

As Patterson said, paraphrase, “just wasn’t feeling them dudes”. Jalen Rose, “uncle toms”, etc

You HAVE to think there’s something else going on behind the scenes. My buddy who HATES UK even agreed. It’s perplexing and beyond frustrating.

I was married 14 years to a black woman from south side Chicago. ALL her cousins, and Cousins friends from Chicago were diehard Duke fans. I know K is polish from Chi town but damn. They argue UK has always been racist, I told them DUKE has NEVER had a Black coach in any sport, at least men's I'm not sure about women's and we have plus we had black on our team years before they allowed them.
I don't get it. I hate Duke and don't understand how people from a thuggish culture in Englewood Chicago, their neighborhood was named "no love" and not a white person for miles could love duke. Unbelievable.

 

[Wildcat-in-STL]

how many people on here called for cal to leave?? 10? everyone of those were posters you never see on here.... and trust me.. since 2012 my back injury has given me a lotta time to roam these boards.... or guys who were calling for cal to leave in 2015 when cal lost to wisconsin........ because 38-1 was a travesty I suppose..... (you know.. the obvious trolls)

 

[Oldbluefart]

I do not follow the recruiting of players like many on here; just follow the ones who sing on with UK.
These players Duke has lined up supposedly can do great things on the court. Having not seen them play, when I see this many great players going to one school, I wonder how the chemistry will be with only one basketball allowed in a game.
Anyone has some thoughts on how these players will blend together and be team players?

 

[dave5164]

I can believe that he might make an assistant coaching change or two for next season. I don't believe Zion wasn't considering us as the Step dad said to the media. Quickley was saying that he had spoke to Zion and that he felt good about it. Zion told the media that Kentucky had visited the week before his decision date. Kentucky was all that was talked about last summer until October about him and Quickley playing together and he seemed to really like midnight madness at UK. I just think it was the step dad that had something against Coach Cal and not Zion Williamson. Maybe they didn't like that Joel Justus was there the last couple of visits. Coach Cal had Been recruiting Zion for over 2 years and Zion and Quickley talked about the close relationship the two had with Coach Cal. I believe Zion wanted to attend a bigger school like UK, Duke, or Kansas and his step dad wanted Clemson since he played at Clemson. I believe since he wasn't attending Clemson his Step Dad has stepped in and said Then Duke and not UK. It seemed like step dad didn't want or like Kentucky.

 

[Smashcat]

According to his Dad he was considering Duke, UNC, Clemson and USC.

And Matt Jones spent months telling his fans he was coming to UK.
Then he switched to Clemson toward the end.
And was saying UNC is now a possibility the last day. Good stuff.

 

[Cat in ga]

Screw em he's going to Duke. I have visions of Jamarl and Herro lighting them up from outside next year. If we don't have a mass exodus I don't see them blowing us out of the gym. Could be wrong, but who knows. I for one am looking forward to that game. The team with the most 5* freshmen does not always win. We should no that better than anyone. Go Cats! I hope Quickley crosses him over so bad he loses a shoe.