You Might Want to Sit Down For This One
- Thread starter MWes11
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You could have said that to Tubby every year but one and Billy G, because neither one got there and Tubby never got there past his first year but who's counting.
What does Cal always tell his players?
Worry about the team, and you'll get what you want individually.
Can the people blowing a gasket about this not see the connection here? Sell the players on team goals, but do so in the context of individual success via the NBA (and a life-changing payday). Don't try to pretend that the noble thing is to subsume all individual goals under the auspice of "team", but get the players to buy into the team as the best way to achieve those individual goals. Check your ego, cash out at the end of it (because that's the most tangible success you can have as a player).
It's not like he's talking about getting 8 guys drafted off a 10 loss team.
Worry about the team, and you'll get what you want individually.
Can the people blowing a gasket about this not see the connection here? Sell the players on team goals, but do so in the context of individual success via the NBA (and a life-changing payday). Don't try to pretend that the noble thing is to subsume all individual goals under the auspice of "team", but get the players to buy into the team as the best way to achieve those individual goals. Check your ego, cash out at the end of it (because that's the most tangible success you can have as a player).
It's not like he's talking about getting 8 guys drafted off a 10 loss team.
I love Cal. No one can get the players to buy in better then him. He IMO should get paid 10M a year.
But when you talk of going 40-0 and Booker and WCS saying our goal is to win it all, have a bad 3 mins against Wis where you sit on the ball give the game away..but 7 weeks later come out and say the goal is to get 8 drafted is a little silly is all I'm saying.
To anyone who is seriously upset about that comment please just consider this. In 6 yrs of Cal, UK's APR has been great, we have had ZERO scandals, no whiff of violations, made the FF 4 of the 5 NCAAs we've been in, won it all once, and played for another title. Raised money for charities, brought in outstanding young men who have represented the school as well as you could ask for, and gets Top 2 classes every year. All of that, and you can't let one or two comments you don't like slide? Perfection ain't out there folks.
Uh no there are not plenty who could do this. In fact there are not any coaches outside maybe K who could pull off a run of success not seen here since Rupp that Cal has pulled off. When he's gone some of you are going to face the harsh reality you will probably not see a run like this at UK the rest of your life. We have, incredibly I might add, people taking for granted 4 final fours and a title the last 5 years. That's insane. Remember before Cal we were mired in our longest final four drought in history. No he is not perfect, but outside of Rupp there has never been a coach more perfectly suited for Kentucky than Cal. That kind of thing is VERY rare.
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Yes I know I like making this comparison way too much (so sue me) but seriously, one is far far more likely to make a good governor than to come even close to being a proper UK b-ball coach. After all we had twelve governors from 1931-72 (not to mention seven Presidents and four Popes)...and only one UK basketball coach. That is all the more reason it'd be foolish for Cal to go to the NBA...after all what's so special about being just one of 30 guys?
I respectfully disagree because who else in CBB is saying it? Answer: Nobody. With the exception of this past spring, who else is recruiting with the success level of Calipari? Answer: Nobody.
I'm not a fan of that statement in itself but its impact on how potential 5-stars view the opportunity to play for UK is tremendous. Just look at the results! The verdict is still out on this year's recruiting. If we end up landing Murray, he would still have a nearly untouchable streak of top notch recruiting. I'm frankly pretty excited about that Mulder kid as well.
Our team this coming year will no doubt have some struggles along the way but I wouldn't be shocked at all to find us in the Final Four again or maybe beyond. All of the success we have enjoyed during Calipari's tenure is attributed to his "players first" mentality. Is Calipari perfect? No but who is? I certainly feel he could have gotten his blog about "not platooning again" out about a month sooner. Had he done so, maybe we wouldn't have missed on all the 5-stars that we did. Any one or two of Newman, Zimmerman, Brown, Diallo, Ingram or Swannigan may have ended up here...or...perhaps not.
With 4 out of 5 Final Fours, 1 NC and 1 Runner-up, how can you not trust in what Cal is doing?
Well maybe you should go root for your hero Pitino. You sound like a closet cardfan to me. This isn't Cal worshipping...it's "seeing the undeniable results" that are born out of his philosophy. No other coach in CBB talks like this and yet can any of them boast 4 Final Fours in 5 years?
Unfortunately, too many fans think that their opinion of the HC matters more than the potential recruits opinion of the HC. How many championships have UK fans won for Kentucky? Is there a stat on this? Some of us need to take an ego check and realize that (as another fellow fan pointed out) Cal is NOT talking to us when he talks about what our goal is...he is talking to the potential recruits. I have no doubt that he says the same stuff to these recruits directly on visits and such but using the internet and twitter to get this out also speaks to potential recruits he may not even be aware are considering UK. This method could draw such players in (much like throwing out a net rather than a specially baited hook when fishing).
Frankly, I feel what Cal is saying, why he is saying it and how he is saying it is quite brilliant!
When did I say that I think the players and Cal did not want to win a title? I merely posted a topic that I thought people on this board would like to discuss. Nothing more, nothing less. That's why we are all here, no? To have an educated (for some, not all) discussion on topics that relate to our Cats
Statements like this show just how "blind" the hatred for Cal and his philosophies are. Really? So if we aren't outraged at a coach who produced 4 Final Fours, 1 NC and 1 runner-up in 5 years and is clearly using a recruiting strategy to lure in more top talent then we are willing to accept a cold blooded murderer for a HC?
That's what you haters are going with?
There is obviously zero hope that some of you will ever get on board. Maybe we should bring back BCG, would that may you happy? Or Tubby?
When did I "equate" anything? Get out your previously uncracked dictionary and look up the words "hypothetical" "comparison" and "analogy", that should clear it up for you. Oh and also look up "sycophant" if you want your mind boggled when you see your picture in the definition offered as an example.
So now we are counting final fours as titles for the sake of comparison to Wooden? Gotcha, mmm hmm.
You just blasted someone for making that same kind of lazy accusation on you (that you equated what Cal did to axe murder - though your analogy was stupid, it wasn't actually equating his words to axe murder), and then you turn around and do the same exact thing to me (saying I was equating Cal's run to Woodens).
That's just lazy and weak and you know it. I said no one since Wooden in the 70s would've had a run that impressive, which is true, with maaybe 1 or 2 arguable cases (Coach K's late 80s/early 90s). And that people like you would still be bitching about it. Which is also true.
Again, forget about "you guys love Cal more than the university" and "you guys would lick the dirt off his boots". Throw out this mutual exclusivity paradigm - it's a load of crap.
Cal is having the second best initial 6 year run of any coach at a new D1 team, ever (after Roy at UNC). His kids are not getting into trouble, they're doing fine in class, and the vast majority of them are great representatives of the university.
By definition, this stuff is good for the program.
If you spin it otherwise, you're looking for excuses to take shots at the guy. Which is fine- if you don't like him personally, that's your business. But stop trying to act like you're the one being objective here and that everyone else is all googly eyed. There are certainly some googly eyed individuals on this board, but you sure as hell aren't being objective.
After reading most of the post in this thread a few things stick out....
- Brian Poe likes a lot of positive post.
- Sawnee Cat only likes a lot of negative post and may or may not be a troll.
- We have a bunch of people on here who think they know more than Cal when it comes to coaching and I would love to see their coaching resume that qualifies them to know so much.
- We have several people who have nothing better to do with their time than to sit around criticizing ever word Cal says both to media or a group of people he is giving a motivational speech to.
- Some still don't get that what Cal says usually isn't for their listening pleasure but as a recruiting tool for players.
Rawrrr is unquestionable objective....cause Cal could axe murder and still be defended on this board...what more objectivity do you need?
Ok, I've never minded being the dummy in a conversation, shoot, I'm pretty good at it, so I'll add my point of view. As much as I love Cal, I'm tired of some of his comments. 2010, "the greatest day in UK history". 2015, "the goal was to get 8 drafted". Then of course we have the blind defenders, "4 final fours in 6 years, only Wooden has done that". I certainly don't expect to win a NC every year or every 5 for that matter, but this is UK. Who really cares about final 4 banners? I really don't. I don't look back at 97 and say what a great year. We had the best team and lost, that is what I remember. Enough about me, let me expand on what bugs me about Cal. I really think he is being dead honest when he says this is a players first program. He has a trickle down mentality. If the players are successful enough, the program will be as well. I remember early in the season he relayed a statement from another coach or scout, I can't remember which, who told him UK would be unbeatable if he would just settle into a 7, maybe 8 man rotation. Playing a traditional game. Cal refused because it would potentially hurt some players. I think he did the same thing at the end of the wisc game. He should have pulled Andrew for Ulis, but that would look bad on Andrew. I really do think Cal is more interested in his players success than he is the program's success and though I really love what Cal has done for us, I have a difficult time reconciling the difference.
Stupid thread merge...not you as the OP. I was responding to the Dice character and his long rant. They put it into this thread. I like the mods doing that usually, but now my post looks like it is meant for you. My bad.
By your logic we've had 8 great seasons out of 113. Why even follow the team if all they do is disappoint you?
The only way I could understand anyone being truly upset about this is if they genuinely thought that Cal does things that hurt our chances of winning games because he's more concerned about helping players increase their draft stock. If you do think that, please explain how that works. What are the things he does in that respect.
I never said I didn't trust what Cal is doing. What I was saying is at this point in his tenure at UK, the results of putting guys into the NBA speak for itself. IMO, there is no need to say something like this at this point in time. When he first arrived and was trying to get the best players to come here...sure. But 6 years later, does he still need to say things like this? I don't think he does. Every big time high school basketball player knows Cal is the best at putting guys into the league. A majority of big time high school players that choose UK, come here because of that. The quickest path to the NBA. I'm ok with that. It's the day and age we live in right now with college basketball.
What I don't understand is the need to say something like this in this kind of venue. I just think getting guys drafted is pushed a little more in the public eye than it should be, that's all. It doesn't mean I don't like Cal, it doesn't mean I don't trust Cal, it just means that I think he can be just as successful in recruiting as he has been without continuously hammering this home. A comment like, "One of my goals this year was to get 8 guys drafted. I have no doubt that if I would have put these young men in the position for 8 of them to be drafted that we would be hanging another banner." would have been fine with me.
IMO, if a coach from a rival school said this, we'd be ripping his head off..."So and so only cares about himself, he doesn't care about his school". Again, don't get me disagreeing with what he said as not supporting Cal. I just think we could have the same success without having to say these things after results have proven themselves on the recruiting trail, on the court and in the NBA Draft.
Go Big Blue!
Sucks when the shoe fits, don't it?
You are the one that applied the syllogism, I merely extended it in a logical manner to illustrate your rather obtuse and frankly, disturbing comparison. By using such a sick and sadistic example in a rather childish display of hyperbole, proves that your perspective is not one that would reflect the mainstream.
You might want to compare dictionaries with someone else. If you chose to continue, let's have fun and use a lexicon somewhat above that of the average middle schooler
What I can't understand is why we are having so many different opinions on what Cal really said. Some say its just coach speak, others say he says what the players want to hear.
I would just like for him to say what he means or mean what he says. That shouldn't be all that difficult.
It could be argued that he did that at the end of the Wisconsin game when he left Ulis on the bench in favor of Andrew.
If you really think that he literally weighed in his mind "Ulis gives us a better chance in this situation, but I'll take the winning probability hit because this might help Andrew's draft stock", then you are the definition of a tinfoil hatter. Why are you posting here, bro? The government already has a microchip in your brain. Don't give them more information to track you down!
And if you really think that's what I said then you need to return to 1st grade immediately for reading comprehension class.
But, yeah, nice try anyway.
Oh man, you knocked me down - you have the bayonet to my chest. Now just plunge it in by explaining what the hell else you could've meant by those words besides "maybe Cal let Ulis sit in those last couple minutes for the sake of Andrew's draft stock". Can't wait to see this wiggling.
Might be the strangest thing I ever heard a coach say! I guess it is better than saying he probably gave away a championship with poor coaching at the end of the season. I want championships and don't give a crap about how many get drafted. STFU, makes you sound stupid!
Are you arguing that? Do you think at that moment, he was thinking about Andrew's draft stock even one little bit? The question of whether he should have put in Ulis is a valid one, but I can't imagine very many people think he was thinking about the draft during that game. Or any game for that matter.
No wiggling here. I think it's comparable to the Carroll/Lynch/Wilson scenario in the Super Bowl.
As I said in the part of the quote that you conveniently left out, "it could be argued..." that his affinity for Andrew, that was very apparent in his quotes during the season, and maybe even a desire to show the NBA scouts something, contributed to a desire to leave him in, even as he struggled, even as Ulis sat, in attempt to help Andrew.
I never said, or implied that Cal consciously did something to the detriment of the team. But a desire to prop the player up could be detrimental to that teams chances in certain situations.
"It could be argued" that the final minutes of the Wisconsin game was one of those.
The trickle down method is obviously working better than what we have had the last 20 years. I think Tyler getting driven on by Jackson had more to do with Andrew being in the game.
I think it's reasonable to think that draft stock, NBA, etc. certainly plays a role indirectly in some, not all decisions given his constant references to the NBA, the draft, etc. He talks about those things a lot. It is a big part of how he has branded our program. His desire is for players to succeed & move on to NBA careers.
Doesn't seem that far fetched to me at all.
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