You Might Want to Sit Down For This One

[kyboy1998]

I'm going to assume Cal didn't think it was a benefit to his guys draft stock to lose to Wisconsin. Armed with that belief I have additionally assumed he planned to win the game and any subsequent game thereafter.

Then again what do I know. Maybe he talked to scouts beforehand and was told his guys were locked into position and made an executive decision to lose to prevent injury.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

That "mindset" is going to keep UK on the mountaintop long after Cal retires. It's a mindset that would prefer 7 NBA guys on a team that loses in the Elite Eight over 1 NBA guy on a team that loses in the Final Four (if given the choice). It's almost a vision of draft-related attrition in terms of what holds more weight over other programs in the future.

Pragmatically, it also is a mindset that is the best for the program in the long run. The more NBA guys UK produces, the more fruit our program will harvest once Cal leaves. UNC fed off the Jordan brand for two full decades once he left Chapel Hill. Kansas is still reaping the dividends of the Wiggins recruitment. Cal landing Derrick Rose at Memphis allowed massive inroads at Kentucky for guys like John Wall, Brandon Knight, and Marquis Teague. 1 five star + 1 five star = 3 five star recruits is a formula that especially true with what we've seen at Kentucky, and that building process has been the lynchpin of Cal's success.

Personally, I'd prefer landing as many legitimate, long-standing NBA guys as possible, and I think Calipari would as well. He knows that for the long-term success of the UK program, getting guys like Davis, Wall, Towns, and Skal is the key. It will make the next coach's life easier on the recruiting front in the long run, and it will give UK a fighter's chance at the national title in the immediate.

 

[EvilMD]

Every time I think our fans are a hopeless basket case, a couple of people who truly get it come in and tell them off, and I feel there is hope for us.

People are upset because we weren't perfect. People are upset because Cal isn't perfect. Those people must be perfect themselves.

 

[Estil]

To the people who are pointing out Cal making the Final Four four out of five times (and just missing five out of six) as if he's the only one or something...Rupp was NIT champ in 1946, NIT runner-up in 1947, NCAA champs in 1948, 1949, and 1951. Keep in mind this was back when the NIT = NCAA in prestige (and at one time in the mid 80s or so we DID hang 1946/1976 NIT championship banners in Rupp Arena)...doesn't making five title games in six years and winning four championships in six years count for anything?

Fun Fact: We are the only school in the country with multiple NIT (2) and NCAA (8) championships.

 

[weatherbird]

We as fans keep the program going. We buy the gear, we pay BIG money for tickets. If we didn't they would shut the program down.

We would not have a 8M a year coach.

It is about the fans first, not the players. Kentucky and Cal are also the gate way to the NBA, it is not getting players drafted, it is winning titles for the fans FIRST.

And when the team stops winning, you quit paying big money for tickets, and you quit buying gear. The reason you are still doing that while Cal is the coach is because he is winning, which is what fans care about. I have said it multiple times, as long as he is winning, and putting UK in the hunt for a national title, he is fulfilling his duties as a coach. And as long as he is doing that, I don't care in what order his priorities are. Some fans are going to find out that this is the truth when Cal leaves. We will hire a coach that will say everything that the fans are wanting, "I'm here to win titles and go to final fours", yet when that coach doesn't do it at the same rate as Cal, which he probably won't, then those fans will be upset, and wish they had Cal back regardless of what he says.

 

[ThunderCat98]

At the end of the day, it's a bunch of kids playing a GAME. Some of you need to get over the "holier-than-thou" BS and get on with your lives. I love Kentucky basketball, too. However, to make it out to be something more than a game is ridiculous.

 

[3rex]

cal isnt like the typical miserable uk fan. he has a good life. so at the end of a tough day...he can go home happy.

instead of challenging cal to be better...why not challenge yourself first. if you did....maybe you would realize that not everything he says if for you. i know that is a hard concept to grasp because of the self centered nature of uk fans. but believe it our not...there is a bigger picture. sorry you dont like it...better just adapt and deal with it. he isnt changing.

Are you miserable? I hope not but you sure call others that a lot, and all because they have a different point of view than you. Seems like a strange viewpoint to come from.
Personally I wouldn't trade my life for anything. My guess, and my hope, is that most or all on here view life the same.
Just because some may not like something that Cal does, or may disagree with a viewpoint that you may have, is not a commentary on how happy, or miserable, they are in life.

 

[3rex]

It was directly intended towards a segment of the fans , a nasty throat punch that was wildly effective . He should have said it , I'm glad he said it and I want him to keep saying it . Winning the title would have been great but don't tell me losing hasn't paid big dividends.

Why would a coach "throat punch" a segment of his own fan base?

What are the "big dividends" that came from losing?

 

[BostonCat2001]

Are you miserable? I hope not but you sure call others that a lot, and all because they have a different point of view than you. Seems like a strange viewpoint to come from.
Personally I wouldn't trade my life for anything. My guess, and my hope, is that most or all on here view life the same.
Just because some may not like something that Cal does, or may disagree with a viewpoint that you may have, is not a commentary on how happy, or miserable, they are in life.

no i call others stupid because for the most part they are. see this thread and others as proof.

again....if someone cant distinguish the audience cal is addressing when he speaks....not much can be done for you. cal isnt changing so one can either just deal with it move forward (they cant however) or just bitch about everything all the time. complaining is something some folks just enjoy more.

 

[3rex]

That "mindset" is going to keep UK on the mountaintop long after Cal retires. It's a mindset that would prefer 7 NBA guys on a team that loses in the Elite Eight over 1 NBA guy on a team that loses in the Final Four (if given the choice). .

??????? Say what ????????

There is no way that's what Cal is saying or what he means. I don't belive that.

And if he did, then those who are saying he puts individual goals, i.e. The NBA, above team goals, and getting blasted on here for it......would be correct.

 

[gracetoyou]

HOW MANY THREADS DO WE NEED ABOUT THIS?? The other 4 are just fine.

OP...don't be stupid!! His public comments were for recruits & families...not for you.

 

[shutzhund]

Will Calipari ever win a championship again with this mindset?

You must be having a slow day.

 

[Fadhi]

This is crazy. What difference does it make what Cal publicly states is the goal.. we all know he and the players want to win it all every year. If Cal said the main goal every year is to make sure everyones shoes stayed tied
You think the players would not care about winning a title? Every player in the NCAA wants to win it all...
This draft comment is semantics..aimed at recruiting. .. and indirectly means he wants a bad ass team that will win it all.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

??????? Say what ????????

There is no way that's what Cal is saying or what he means. I don't belive that.

And if he did, then those who are saying he puts individual goals, i.e. The NBA, above team goals, and getting blasted on here for it......would be correct.

I really hope you read my entire post; not just the sentence you happened to disagree with. I also wrote "if given the choice", and yes, I stand by that statement. Long term, having 35 guys in the NBA with 5 Final Fours during that span to show for it is better for the program than having 12 guys in the NBA with 6 Final Fours during that span to show for it. It makes for more future Final Fours, program momentum, and sustained prominence due to all the recruiting advantages that come with massive quantities of NBA affiliation.

 

[UKCATSFREAK]

You are correct. Elite prospects have been conditioned to not give a crap about UK's tradition. Tradition is the reason why they go to Duke, KU, UNC, etc. They were coming to UK because they once believed UK was their fastest track to the NBA, maybe not so much anymore.

Once believed? Really? Why, because of a few recruits have made strange choices and chosen non blue blood schools? Its not like he have been losing a ton to the other blue bloods. Kids are just making strange decisions this class. So, let me get this right, you're saying that because of a handful of kids in one class hasn't chosen UK, although we have the #1 recruit and still may have the #1 class with Murray, all that Cal has built over 6 years is gone? Just washed away? That's just absolutely ridiculous. When we clean house next year, I can't wait to hear your rebuttal. I'll be here waiting!

 

[wild mandu]

Whether you're upset with what he said or not (I'm not) it's clear from this board and callers to certain radio shows that this isn't really the right fanbase to say stuff like that to.

Unfortunately, Cal isn't fully appreciated here, and I'm guilty of that myself sometimes. It's ALL about tradition and winning at UK, so it's "interesting" to have a coach like Calipari here, someone who wins all the time, but is anything but traditional.

I kind of agree with MJ on this one. It's not a big deal, I'm totally cool with what he said, but maybe just don't say it so everyone can hear. Have your cake and eat it too, Cal.

 

[ukcatsfan2]

I really hope you read my entire post; not just the sentence you happened to disagree with. I also wrote "if given the choice", and yes, I stand by that statement. Long term, having 35 guys in the NBA with 5 Final Fours during that span to show for it is better for the program than having 12 guys in the NBA with 6 Final Fours during that span to show for it. It makes for more future Final Fours, program momentum, and sustained prominence due to all the recruiting advantages that come with massive quantities of NBA affiliation.

How does having more GUYS in the NBA equate to more future Final Fours?

just curious....

 

[bnewt]

Cal has done a tremendous job since he has been @ UK..........& this statement is/was directed toward prospective recruits........BUT Cal has had the best talent at least 3 years in his 6 years here........2010, 2012, & last year. He should have won the title all 3 of those years & did not. He should have also won a title @ Memphis. His coaching decisions and lack of willingness to change things up can not be denied. The empty trips against Wi after building a 4 point lead are evidence of that. He is not perfect, by any stretch, just like the rest of us. He is also not above questions/concerns by the fan base either.

 

[coolcat9lives]

It's hysterical that so many on here think Calipari "develops" these players. All of the Kentucky players that will be drafted in this year's first round would be NBA-bound regardless of where they went to college. They aren't going to the NBA because of Calipari. They're going there because they are talented. Calipari's ability to develop players is severely overrated. Judging by Kentucky's spring recruiting, it would seem that many of the better high school players are starting to figure this out. They're not "weird" as many folks here have stated. They just realize they can achieve their dream at numerous other schools, and without Calipari's "assistance."

Let me toss you a couple of names.....Willie Cauley-Stein and Devin Booker. Let me toss you another couple of names........Anthony Bennett and Shabazz Muhammad. The first two prospects came in as four stars. Cauley-Stein wasn't even considered a first round draft choice, let alone a lottery pick his freshman year. Devin Booker was considered a 2-3 year guy coming out of high school as well. Both over achieved based on their trajectory coming out of high school. Now the second two guys both opted to achieve their dream at another school and are underachieving in the league. Those guys were considered to be five star prospects and one of them was the number one draft pick. I don't see Bennett or Muhammad in the league for longer than 2-3 more years. Cal doesn't get all the credit but a lot of UK's former players would have a very different career path by not coming to UK.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

How does having more GUYS in the NBA equate to more future Final Fours?

just curious....

For the same reason UNC having Michael Jordan directly led to the future recruiting successes of landing Vince Carter and Jerry Stackhouse, players who each led their teams to respective Final Fours.

Also, as I already stated, without Derrick Rose and Cal's joint venture at Memphis in 2008, Cal likely doesn't land Wall at Kentucky. Without Wall and Rose, it's highly suspect as to whether Brandon Knight would have come to UK. Essentially, Rose + Wall = 2011 Final Four. 2011 Final Four helped establish the 2012 national title team. The 2012 national title success with Davis and MKG helped lead to the successful recruitments of Randle and others, which helped UK get to the 2014 and 2015 Final Fours.

Success leads to more success. Having an abundance of high level NBA guys affiliated with our program establishes a greater UK brand.

 

[gracetoyou]

How does having more GUYS in the NBA equate to more future Final Fours?

just curious....

Does that really have to be explained to you? It's already translated into more final 4's....4 of them in 6 years: a national championship, national runner-up. DO YOU GET IT?



Sorry but I'm impatient with our fanbase these days.

 

[thebluestripes]

Had he made the statements after the nit finish, I imagine alot more people would be less forgiving of such remarks

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

no i call others stupid because for the most part they are. see this thread and others as proof.

again....if someone cant distinguish the audience cal is addressing when he speaks....not much can be done for you. cal isnt changing so one can either just deal with it move forward (they cant however) or just bitch about everything all the time. complaining is something some folks just enjoy more.

No, I doubt many are stupid but even as you age your arrogance never seems to ebb. Cal isn't infallible. It is ok for fans to give what they believe to be constructive criticism. Perhaps, unlike you, his arrogance isn't so entrenched that he refuses to listen constructive criticism.

 

[kybassfan]

Cal doesn't develop players?

Not much into data are we? Take a team to the final four with a freshman or sophomore point guard and make that statement. Win a championship with a freshman point guard. No big deal, right? Happens every year? Name them.

Jorts.

If you are grabbing at straws trying to trash one of the best seasons in the history of college basketball, try again. That one broke and you look silly holding half a straw.

The bloody hand in front of you is the one that just set down the food bowl.

 

[ukcatsfan2]

Does that really have to be explained to you? It's already translated into more final 4's....4 of them in 6 years: a national championship, national runner-up. DO YOU GET IT?



Sorry but I'm impatient with our fanbase these days.

you can be impatient with the fanbase - including me - all you want. I want someone to explain how what has already happened translate into what will happen in the future? And don't say "4 of them in 6 years". We SHOULD have won two more! But given the TRUTH that players start thinking about the NBA that last week has cost us....

Do you really believe that putting players in the NBA is the REASON they come to UK? Didn't happen this year and I believe as time goes on, Recruits realize they can be One-N-Done at any school - not just Kentucky!

So CAL's marketing pitch is going to change or maybe winning a few more National Championships when WE get that close is the better Marketing Pitch!

 

[The_Godfather]

The more I read these threads, the more I realize how many UK fans are borderline mentally challenged.

 

[wild mandu]

But given the TRUTH that players start thinking about the NBA that last week has cost us....

Wut? Am I reading this right?

You think we lost to UConn and Wisconsin because the players were, in part, thinking about the NBA?

 

[weatherbird]

Had he made the statements after the nit finish, I imagine alot more people would be less forgiving of such remarks

While this is probably true, he didn't make those comments after that year. In reality, if your goals for the team are different, as a fan that is fine. My goals for the team is different. My goal is to win a national title. The difference is that I'm not bashing or calling out Cal because his goals differ in rank than mine. I don't care about the NBA, my only concern is UK. But why be all upset because his priorities and ours aren't the same? Is he not doing what we all want, regardless of his priorities? Sure he could have a couple more titles if things fell right, but when the tournament is a one and done format, the best team doesn't even win 50% of the time. But the best team has odds in it's favor to win, and Cal has had the best team in the country 3 out of the 6 years he's been here.

 

[3rex]

Let me toss you a couple of names.....Willie Cauley-Stein and Devin Booker. Let me toss you another couple of names........Anthony Bennett and Shabazz Muhammad. The first two prospects came in as four star. Cauley-Stein wasn't even considered a first round draft choice, let alone a lottery pick his freshman year. Devin Booker was considered a 2-3 year guy coming out of high school as well. Both over achieve based on their trajectory coming out of high school. Now the second two guys both opted achieve their dream at another school and are underachieving in the league. Those guys were considered to be five star prospects and one of them was the number one draft pick. I don't see Bennett or Muhammad in the league for longer than 2-3 more years. Cal doesn't get all the credit but a lot of UK's former players would have a very different career path by not coming to UK.

WCS's "game" hasn't really developed at all. He is a freakish athlete who plays basketball, just as he was when he arrived. That translates into an ability to defend multiple positions, block shots, receive lob dunks, etc.
as a result, the NBA values him highly and I am very happy for WCS that it all is going to translate into making him a very rich man.
But, his basketball "game," skills, etc, have not been developed to any great degree while at UK. He is a big man who came to Lexington with no offensive moves, and he leaves UK with no offensive moves.

 

[ukcatsfan2]

Wut? Am I reading this right?

You think we lost to UConn and Wisconsin because the players were, in part, thinking about the NBA?

Yes I do! And if you don't think that plays on there minds when its been talked about that WHOLE week by the media, you may be missing something. The pressure of deciding whether they come back or not is discussed at every media session leading up to the final four.

I believe the pressure of that is just too much!

 

[coolcat9lives]

WCS's "game" hasn't really developed at all. He is a freakish athlete who plays basketball, just as he was when he arrived. That translates into an ability to defend multiple positions, block shots, receive lob dunks, etc.
as a result, the NBA values him highly and I am very happy for WCS that it all is going to translate into making him a very rich man.
But, his basketball "game," skills, etc, have not been developed to any great degree while at UK. He is a big man who came to Lexington with no offensive moves, and he leaves UK with no offensive moves.

Do you remember WIllie freshman year? He couldn't even put the ball on the floor one time and attack the basket. He has improved exponentially. His offensive game will never be polished but that doesn't mean his game didn't grow. Willie Cauley-Stein developed a hook shot with both hands and a jump shot to about 15 feet. Those will make his offensive game serviceable in the NBA. Willie wasn't guarding every position his freshman year either, I think people forget that. Willie only did a little of it in 2014. Willie had to learn defensive principles in order to put himself in a position to be able to guard on the perimeter. So once again he improved.

 

[wild mandu]

So what was different in 2012? Also, how did Duke pull it off this year?

We lost to Wisconsin because we had several HORRIBLE possessions at the end where we milked the clock, with a very small lead, without running a set play, something you never do against the best offense in the country. I can see you blaming Cal for that, or even Harrison, but how you can surmise that was the result of draft decisions is beyond me.

 

[brianpoe]

No, I doubt many are stupid but even as you age your arrogance never seems to ebb. Cal isn't infallible. It is ok for fans to give what they believe to be constructive criticism. Perhaps, unlike you, his arrogance isn't so entrenched that he refuses to listen constructive criticism.

Constructively criticizing his personal beliefs?

I agree he's had some coaching blunders but how can you call someone's personal aspirations and goals fallible, especially when they are accomplishing so much?

 

[ganner918]

Cal has done a tremendous job since he has been @ UK..........& this statement is/was directed toward prospective recruits........BUT Cal has had the best talent at least 3 years in his 6 years here........2010, 2012, & last year. He should have won the title all 3 of those years & did not. He should have also won a title @ Memphis. His coaching decisions and lack of willingness to change things up can not be denied. The empty trips against Wi after building a 4 point lead are evidence of that. He is not perfect, by any stretch, just like the rest of us. He is also not above questions/concerns by the fan base either.

So in 3 seasons he's had the best talent and one of those he's won. That's fitting with the analysis that was done before this year's tournament that, typically, the favorite has about a 1 in 3 chance at winning the title. I do think Cal's coaching at the end of the Wisconsin game is part of why we lost, but that's not relevant to the question of what the supposed preseason goal is. If you think he wasn't trying to win, think a championship wasn't what that team was focused on in March, you're delusional. This is rhetoric. It's sales. Look at the results: he's winning more than any coach since Rupp.

 

[qwesley]

By the way, you can usually tell where your position on an argument stands by looking at who agrees with you. Maybe don't take relationship advice from your single friends, you know?

Agree with the first sentence, up in the air on the second.

 

[3rex]

Do you remember WIllie freshman year? He couldn't even put the ball on the floor one time and attack the basket. He has improved exponentially. His offensive game will never be polished but that doesn't mean his game didn't grow. Willie Cauley-Stein developed a hook shot with both hands and a jump shot to about 15 feet. Those will make his offensive game serviceable in the NBA. Willie wasn't guarding every position his freshman year either, I think people forget that. Willie only did a little of it in 2014. Willie had to learn defensive principles in order to put himself in a position to be able to guard on the perimeter. So once again he improved.

Sounds like you're reaching, but ok. I've never seen this hook shot with either hand tho, and certainly not to the extent that it's some type offensive weapon. When have you seen him use a left handed hook?

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Constructively criticizing his personal beliefs?

I agree he's had some coaching blunders but how can you call someone's personal aspirations and goals fallible, especially when they are accomplishing so much?

I think I've already been clear on that. I believe people chase the goals they really want to meet. I believe Cal when he says his goal is to get X guys drafted, to have his guys earn 3 billion in their careers. I am critical of the goal he is setting. As I said before, Cal mentioned that a coach or scout told him if he would play a traditional lineup, 7-8 guys, we would be unbeatable. Cal said he couldn't do that because it wasn't fair to the players. That simple example of what is most important to him says it all really. He actively coached in a manner that may have lessened our likelihood of winning a NC while increasing the likelihood his players got drafted. It will continue to be a growing problem if we don't win NC's and he continues to declare seasons a great success because of draft day. He isn't paid to get players to the NBA. Let me say it another way. What he is saying has a slight feel of "fans be damned, I'll do what I want" to it and is rubbing some the wrong way. Not in a really bad way, just a bit annoying. Everything about this program is from the fans, from the outrageous salaries, to the facilities, to the living quarters, to the TV exposure that helps his players reach their dreams on draft day. One may be wise to pay a bit more attention to the hand that feeds you and through unending support, helps you reach your goal for your players.

 

[ukcatsfan2]

So what was different in 2012? Also, how did Duke pull it off this year?

We lost to Wisconsin because we had several HORRIBLE possessions at the end where we milked the clock, with a very small lead, without running a set play, something you never do against the best offense in the country. I can see you blaming Cal for that, or even Harrison, but how you can surmise that was the result of draft decisions is beyond me.

Ok, let me see if I can articulate these questions. These are in my view only.
Duke was fortunate - and it does take luck - to be on the right side of the bracket. They also had a heavy guard presence that was able to make the right plays time after time after time.

Next, we lost to Wisconsin because our bread and butter drives to the basket failed! How many shots - and you already said this - came as the clock was running out. But leading up to that, there was a look of confusion on every players face - thus the shot clock violations and terrible shot selection. And yes, Cal is part the blame here, he had 3 timeouts at the 5 minute mark!

I still believe that last 5 minutes and all the talk of the NBA and the previous successes at finishing off games and mock drafts having the Harrisons not in the second round played a big part on neither of them doing their thing that last five minutes. The luck ran out! I think between them they had one successful possession and got a three point play when we were down 5. But we were up 4 with 5 to play and that is when we needed them to make a play.

 

[ganner918]

You know, to follow up on what ukcatsfan2 said, if you look back at late game scenarios in 2010, 2011, 2012, we often would do what we did at the end of that Wisconsin game and have our point guard try to drive and score or create. It's Calipari's go-to. Wall pulled it off. Knight pulled it off. Teague pulled it off, at the end of the year. Andrew struggled with that on and off throughout his time here and, though he'd been successful a lot at the end of the year, he couldn't pull it off in that game. Part of that's that Wisconsin was playing very good defense and taking that away. I guess Cal wanted to ride his point guard who'd led us that far, but letting it happen THREE times was maddening.

 

[blubo]

i don't care if he says the earth is flat and the moon is made of green cheese as long as he keeps our bbal program at the level it's been on these last six years.