World Serious Official Scorekeeping Point

[vhcat70]

In Saturday night's game, Cubs' 3B threw to first on ground ball attempting to get batter out. 1B stayed with foot on the base stretching for the ball and in the process missed catching the ball by an inch or so. Ruling was hit & error on 3B. No doubt someone errored.

I contend the 1B easily could/should have caught the throw had he left the base such that the error should be on 1B. Since the ruling included that there was a hit, all that mattered was going & catching the ball. Moving to the ball should be expected.

Does anyone give an ish besides me and have an opinion?

 

[Comebakatz3]

Interesting. Seems like it could somewhat go either way. A good throw and the guy is still safe, but doesn't advance. If the 1b moves to gather the ball the guy is still safe and doesn't advance. Both are somewhat at fault.

 

[cat_in_the_hat]

I didn't see the play, but I will comment on the basic concept. I think you have to look at what action caused the situation to begin with. The poor throw is what necessitated the first baseman to leave the bag and try to make a play on the ball. He didn't do that, but if the throw is accurate, then he doesn't have to do anything at all. Therefore, the errant throw is what started the chain reaction of events that led to the runner taking an extra base. I think once you have an action that starts a chain reaction of events that leads to runner taking another base, you can't speculate on what someone else could have done to minimize the damage. The action that starts it gets the error.

 

[CliffDweller25]

Definitely should be E5 on the advancement of the runner/batter.

 

[CatsFanGG24]

E5.

Back in college they started throwing me E3s on plays like that - I think because my SS and 3b had so many errors on the year they felt bad and started docking me....2 hopper 6 ft up the line, lets go E3

 

[vhcat70]

I take from this any time a fielder decides not to catch a thrown ball/doesn't move glove/gets out of the way of the throw, the error is on the thrower. Thanks.

 

[cat_in_the_hat]

I take from this any time a fielder decides not to catch a thrown ball/doesn't move glove/gets out of the way of the throw, the error is on the thrower. Thanks.

I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. If the throw is accurate, then the fielder has to catch it. If he doesn't, it's an error on him. If the throw is inaccurate, and he doesn't catch it, the error is on the guy who threw it. Even if he catches the inaccurate throw, if the runner is safe or takes an additional base, when he wouldn't have been safe or gotten an additional base had the throw been accurate, then the error is still on the guy who made the throw. There is judgement involved in the determining the line that defines an accurate throw versus an inaccurate throw. You may draw the line in a different place on the play you saw than where it was drawn. It doesn't make you right, or necessarily wrong either. Like I said before, I didn't see the play, so I can't comment on that specific play, just the concept.

 

[vhcat70]

I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. If the throw is accurate, then the fielder has to catch it. If he doesn't, it's an error on him. If the throw is inaccurate, and he doesn't catch it, the error is on the guy who threw it. Even if he catches the inaccurate throw, if the runner is safe or takes an additional base, when he wouldn't have been safe or gotten an additional base had the throw been accurate, then the error is still on the guy who made the throw. There is judgement involved in the determining the line that defines an accurate throw versus an inaccurate throw. You may draw the line in a different place on the play you saw than where it was drawn. It doesn't make you right, or necessarily wrong either. Like I said before, I didn't see the play, so I can't comment on that specific play, just the concept.

The throw I raised the question about was plenty accurate enough to be easily caught had the 1B chosen to move his foot off the bag. He chose to stay put & watch sail by his glove by an inch for a throw from a 100 feet away. I mean when someone tosses you a ball & you reach for it but don't move your feet it's your fault? No one would have advanced had he chosen to move just a wee bit.

 

[Jdhays21]

E5.

Back in college they started throwing me E3s on plays like that - I think because my SS and 3b had so many errors on the year they felt bad and started docking me....2 hopper 6 ft up the line, lets go E3

Haha I know your pain. I had a 3rd baseman that would throw a curveball to me. I would get yelled at for not blocking it up but the kid would throw a curve into the dirt and it would take off down the right field line. It was miserable.