I think it's a legit discussion. Here's my thought on the matter. Take the championships from 2010 to present. Duke (2010, 2015) UConn (2011) Kentucky (2012) Louisville (2013) Uconn (2014) Kentucky has not gotten a favorable bracket unlike the other 5 teams. Until that happens for UK or we put together another 2012 team it's going to be tough to win even with gobs of talent. It takes a bit of luck to win the NCAA tournament. When you are having to play every conference champion in the nation to get to the NC it's going to be hard to win 6 in a row.
"Will Cal win another Championship at UK?"
- Thread starter wldktz8
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We did put together another 2012 level team. It was 2015. But the single elimination format of the tournament produces the best team as champion a much lower percentage of the time than the way they do it in the pros. There are just no guarantees, especially years like the last one, which has 4-5 great squads.
Offensively we were better in 2012. Defensively we were 2012 level sometimes and at other times not so much like 2012. We could count on AD showing up pretty much every game. WCS we couldn't depend on so much.
That thread was started by a troll. A troll who has been banned twice. Maybe one of the responses actually addressed the trolls question. Threads like that will not stick around.
What do you consider a favorable bracket? I thought last years was cery favorable towards UK. They didn't have to play a legit team until the Elite 8.
Kinda curious as to how you determined that UConn got favorable brackets in their title years. In 2011 they had to beat Arizona and San Diego St in their own backyard. In 2014 they had to beat the 2, 3, and 4 seeds as a 7 seed. Nothing favorable about that.
Kinda curious as to how you determined that UConn got favorable brackets in their title years. In 2011 they had to beat Arizona and San Diego St in their own backyard. In 2014 they had to beat the 2, 3, and 4 seeds as a 7 seed. Nothing favorable about that.
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You can continue to compare this team to the 2012, but its unfair
Not every title team is going to be as dominating as our 2012 team
Not every title team is going to be as dominating as our 2012 team
Hell yes he will. Outside of one year in 6, we have had championship contending teams. He has came extremely close 3 other times. Really four with the 2010 team losing in the elite 8on a fluke shooting game. So yes he will, I would bet anything on it. Of course when he does, and it will be sooner than later, Zay and Cut Nets will complain that he "only" has 2 titles. Forgetting that even though we have.had 5 different coaches win titles, none besides the original has won more than one here.
I also believe this is a legitimate discussion as well
Exactly. It's like some people don't realize just how good the '12 team was. That team finished with the most wins ever in a single season by an NCAA team (38-2) and won the title. That's not something that's easy to duplicate, yet Cal has almost done it or better than it two other times.
Speaking of the most wins ever in a single season by an NCAA team, there are exactly three teams that have been good enough to accomplish that feat, and all three were coached by Cal. Imagine that.
We have slapdicks and hilljacks on this board literally claiming that he's not a great coach. Hate to tell them, but only great recruiting doesn't get you not one, but three 38 wins seasons. That only happens with great coaching on top of great recruiting.
Think about that for a second. Here is a coach (Cal) that people want to claim isn't a great coach, but not only did he set the record for most wins in a single season, but he also tied his own record two other times.
'15 was better in Kenpom, BPI, Massey, you name it. By most defensive metrics they weren't close (in '15s favor). '12 was better offensively overall. '15 had a better win margin, a better win margin vs ranked teams, and its one loss was to a team far better than the teams that '12 lost to.
The same illogic that leads people to knock Cal for "only" hitting 1 championship of the last 6 (and downplaying the 4 final fours) causes them to also relegate '15 to the dustbins of their memory due to the fact that their loss came in April and not December. It's ridiculous. 2015 was, by the numbers, a top 5 team since 1990 without any wiggle-room. And I'm being conservative. '91 UNLV, '96 UK were certainly better, but for any other team in tha ttime, you have to make a supremely subjective and opinion-based case, because the numbers don't support putting them behind anyone else.
I don't care if you put '12 above '15. That's not insane, because '12 was damn good too. '12 is also probably a top 5 team in that time frame.
But the way you talk, as if '12 is in a different category, is objectively incorrect and makes it evident that you don't quite fathom just how good '15 was.
Rival idiots and certain emotionally crushed UK fans focus on that one loss and then conjure up this false memory of a team that was kinda sorta lucky to be where it was - a season filled with flukes mixed with good performances.
NO NO NO NO NO
You don't get to 38-1 by stumbling around with your thumb up your ass and getting lucky. Yes, they had a (very few) close games, but they sure as hell didn't have more than '12, and they beat the dog crap out of the majority of their opponents. Go look at the "legendary teams" of the past 25 years. Early 90s Duke, early 00s Duke, '05 and '09 UNC, '07 Florida. '91 UNLV was the only team in the past 25 years with a bigger MOV, and '15 UK had a way stronger schedule than UNLV.
It's a huge disservice to your own program for crestfallen fans to downplay such a GD legendary team as the '15 cats. They were as good as they come. But in a single game format, the best doesn't always come out on top.
Should have a great shot in 2016-17, which may be most talent class.
Especially if Ulis comes back.
Add Matthews, Willis & Hawkins to the mix & Cats will be loaded.
Especially if Ulis comes back.
Add Matthews, Willis & Hawkins to the mix & Cats will be loaded.
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anon_q409idbs5m40a
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Only if we get some of the experienced players to come back. I do not think a National Title can be won with strictly freshman and little used reserves that spent a year on the bench. Josh Harrellson was an exception but the real key to the 2012 team was Darius Miller and his senior leadership.
I believe that we'd have won it in 2014 if we had played an effective zone against UCONN.
UofL had thrashed them twice because the zone kept their guards from driving the ball.
I believe that we'd have made the NCAA tournament in 2013 had we played an effective zone because Mays and Wiltjer were too slow to guard anybody and Harrow was too weak when he got caught on switches.
I believe that we'd have won it all last year if we'd had an effective zone, because Wisconsin spread us out to get our rim protectors away from the basket and drove the ball.
A zone would have kept our bigs where they needed to be...Around the basket.
I believe that THIS team could benefit from an effective zone because we're getting burned on switches and either getting scored on or fouling.
I believe in man to man defense, but I also believe that you HAVE to be able to switch things up situationally.
I LOVE Cal, but he's only had one team that was SO good that it could guard ANY team straight up and under ANY situation and that was 2012.
I don't believe that Cal will win another title unless he is willing and able to teach an effective zone for certain situations.
Other coaches find ways to exploit your weaknesses.
You MUST adjust when this happens and Cal refuses to adjust when other coaches find ways to beat us.
UofL had thrashed them twice because the zone kept their guards from driving the ball.
I believe that we'd have made the NCAA tournament in 2013 had we played an effective zone because Mays and Wiltjer were too slow to guard anybody and Harrow was too weak when he got caught on switches.
I believe that we'd have won it all last year if we'd had an effective zone, because Wisconsin spread us out to get our rim protectors away from the basket and drove the ball.
A zone would have kept our bigs where they needed to be...Around the basket.
I believe that THIS team could benefit from an effective zone because we're getting burned on switches and either getting scored on or fouling.
I believe in man to man defense, but I also believe that you HAVE to be able to switch things up situationally.
I LOVE Cal, but he's only had one team that was SO good that it could guard ANY team straight up and under ANY situation and that was 2012.
I don't believe that Cal will win another title unless he is willing and able to teach an effective zone for certain situations.
Other coaches find ways to exploit your weaknesses.
You MUST adjust when this happens and Cal refuses to adjust when other coaches find ways to beat us.
Wisconsin shot the ball way too effectively to implement a zone IMO. Plus, we won 38 games in a row playing man. Why change? We win in 2014 if we weren't so banged up. WCS was out completely and Randle and Poythress were about 70%. Hell, Randle hardly even played the entire first half against UConn. He simply was not the dominating player he had been in the tournament in that game. Had he not been hurt UK wins going away IMO.
while averaging 26+ wins per year for his career.
I think last year's team will be remember more in 10-15 years than the Duke team that won it all. Just like UNLV and our 2010 team
You are clueless. Besides that, how is asking if Cal will win another title any different than any other coach? It's moronic.
We were SO long that a zone COULD have absolutely helped against Wisconsin.
I can't imagine why anyone would not agree that at least TRYING different things couldn't have helped in some of those situations.
Of course none of those coaches have accumulated the talent Cal has, but you keep leaving that little caveat out.
I mean Cal himself has said he should have won more than just the one title. Matt Jones had a segment back in the summer where Cal talked about "I should have 2-3 titles". Coach Cal says it, why are you so appalled and shocked that anyone else would agree that he should have won more than the one title. Hell, its a compliment.
Because they feel like admitting that is somehow undermining Cal or suggesting that he doesn't know what he's doing. Its not that at all.
We should absolutely have more than one title, but we also probably shouldn't have went to a final four twice (2011, 2014).
Wisky was the one team that could beat us last year. Dekker was a matchup that we could not stop without Poythress. Booker got abused by a senior who he have up 4 inches on, plus Willy didn't get off the bus.
Coach has had us in position for a title every year besides one (2013), and that team had a run in them had Noel not gotten hurt. How many other coaches at this school have had us in title contention 5 out of 6 years?
Wisky was the one team that could beat us last year. Dekker was a matchup that we could not stop without Poythress. Booker got abused by a senior who he have up 4 inches on, plus Willy didn't get off the bus.
Coach has had us in position for a title every year besides one (2013), and that team had a run in them had Noel not gotten hurt. How many other coaches at this school have had us in title contention 5 out of 6 years?
Ya know...
I very seldom post ANYTHING critical of Cal and I absolutely LOVE my Cats!
It would really be awesome if you would post some nice things about UK to go along with your negative posts.
Maybe then, you'd convince at least a FEW people that you're not Zipp or Kerry Rhodes.
Fair enough, Ill try and do better.
As a college basketball fan, all you can ask is your coach recruits well and has you continually knocking on the door in March. Calipari has us contending just about every year- all this despite he has yet to get a great bracket in March. If you're always contending, eventually you'll get luck on your side.
Next year's team is going to be a monster.
Next year's team is going to be a monster.
Want an example of a favorable bracket? Look at Florida's run of Elite 8s a few year back. Look at Duke's bracket in '10.
Eventually Cal will win another title and if they change the rules so players have to stay in school longer he could go on a complete tear and win several in a row.
Also, he could end up getting another player that will be as dominant as AD was. Can you imagine Ben Simmons on this team? That guy is unreal, pair him up with Calipari and Tyler Ulis and he would be averaging 30ppg. Tyler would be in the 10apg range.
Eventually Cal is going to get another one of those players.
Also, he could end up getting another player that will be as dominant as AD was. Can you imagine Ben Simmons on this team? That guy is unreal, pair him up with Calipari and Tyler Ulis and he would be averaging 30ppg. Tyler would be in the 10apg range.
Eventually Cal is going to get another one of those players.
The real key to 2012 was MKG and Davis- our two best player. Love Miller, but how was our fifth-best player the real key?
He was one of the only players on that team that could consistently make a perimeter shot
Yep. Under Cal, we have yet to benefit from a great deal of upsets. I'd say '10 was our best bracket thus far, but we still had a good 2-seed waiting in the E8.
In '11, we had to take out the best team in the tournament and a really good UNC team.
In '12, we had to beat THREE blood rivals to win the damn thing.
In '14, we had to beat four legit Top 10 teams before losing to UConn.
Last year, we had to play the two teams whose system probably matched up best against us in ND and Wisconsin (both of whom were Top 5 teams).
I'm ready for a year where we get into a bracket and everything falls apart around us. The number of big games Calipari has won in March here is ridiculous.
Very tough to win a national Championship. I think he almost has to win a second so the negative crowd can't say he only won one when he brought in all this great talent. The one thing those types forget is we don't always get the best of these All-Americans when they are here. We're getting the 18 year old raw version of them. He choked last year but he's getting the chances, even in years he shouldn't have teams in there.
People need to quit with the zone. He doesn't run it. He's not going to run it esp in the NCAA tourney. You might as well say "Well if we had a magical unicorn, we might have beaten Wisconsin, UCONN, whoever in the NCAA."
People need to quit with the zone. He doesn't run it. He's not going to run it esp in the NCAA tourney. You might as well say "Well if we had a magical unicorn, we might have beaten Wisconsin, UCONN, whoever in the NCAA."
They'll still bitch and moan. We're not dealing with logical human beings here. We're dealing with idiots.
The only thing that would have helped us win that game was playing Booker and Ulis more. If that happens...we win. The last few minutes of that game were horrendous to watch. Cal had one plan....get the ball to Karl. When that fell through the Harrisons stood and passed the ball around until the shot clock ran out.
