why have we had a problem recruiting after our 38 win seasons?

[crazyqx83]

The 2012 class was relatively lackluster especially considering we didn't return a single guard/wing and this year we're having trouble replacing all but 10.8 of our 74ppg and 5.9 of our 38 rpg.

Why is this? Seems like kids would be dying to come into a roster with relatively little competition. Especially this year, when everybody coming back or coming in, besides skal, is either a pure distributor (ulis, briscoe) or a defense first player (hawkins, poy, lee) or middle of the road recruit that hasn't proven anything and you would think the top recruits wouldn't be worried about (willis, matthews).

Makes no sense to me.

 

[ganner918]

We were behind because of uncertainty about how many spots we'd have open. By the time our 7 guys declared for the draft, we were down to very few options, all of whom had been recruited hard by other schools as well.

 

[Smashcat]

We've got the #1 class in America. That's a problem?

 

[true blue1]

Not winning it all, I think hurt us. With having the talent we did and not to win it all, gave other coaches a leg to stand on.

 

[maverick1]

Why did my quarter just turn up "heads" on the third flip after it was also "heads" on the first two flips? Three coin flips is a large enough sample size to draw valid conclusions, right?

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

Originally posted by Smashcat:

We've got the #1 class in America. That's a problem?

Seriously? We lost BY FAR the most of any top team, so 3 recruits (which might not end up being #1 anyway) is not nearly enough to make up for that kind of loss. Shouldn't have to explain that.

 

[Aike]

1. We aren't having trouble. Our recruiting class is ranked 1st. You have no clue how it will finish, but it won't be much worse than first.

2. There is competition.

3. Matthews is playing in the Jordan Brand game. That's better than middle of the road.

4. People do things for their own reasons. Ben Simmons is going to LSU of all places because of a family connection. Apparently Zimmerman wanted to stay close to home. Shoes play an influence. Maybe some players want the ball and their hand and see Briscoe and Ulis as a detriment to that.

I don't know what exactly is in the heads of all of these kids, and I don't know where they will all end up. But our class so far looks impressive.

 

[AnarchoNeoLuddite]

Originally posted by true blue1:

Not winning it all, I think hurt us. With having the talent we did and not to win it all, gave other coaches a leg to stand on.

Yeah UNLV can say you cant win NCS at UK and here you might even make the tourney.....Miss St convincing Newman he might play in the NIT. Great fodder coaches have...

 

[Rhavicc]

Originally posted by SilentsAreGolden:

Originally posted by Smashcat:

We've got the #1 class in America. That's a problem?

Seriously? We lost BY FAR the most of any top team, so 3 recruits (which might not end up being #1 anyway) is not nearly enough to make up for that kind of loss. Shouldn't have to explain that.

Then the problem isn't recruiting, it's maintaining the roster. There will be more to come. Elite JUCO player, a graduate transfer that has blue blood offers (And Duke went out and got a 3 star player, before you say anything about Thorne), and 5 more elite recruits on the table for UK. That include Dazon Ingram, who will make a college decision in nearly 50 minutes from now.
This is pre-mature.

 

[Pygmy Sasquatch]

Originally posted by maverick1:
Why did my quarter just turn up "heads" on the third flip after it was also "heads" on the first two flips? Three coin flips is a large enough sample size to draw valid conclusions, right?

Right on, two degrees of freedom is more than just a catchy band name.

 

[CELTICAT]

We asked very talented players to sacrifice and it didn't amount to anything. That's not exactly a strong hand to play recruiting wise.

 

[docholiday51]

I think it has more to do with who the top kids are and what they want for themselves.This year's top recruits seem to be more about "me" and wanting to be the man than did the group from last year.

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

Originally posted by CELTICAT:
We asked very talented players to sacrifice and it didn't amount to anything. That's not exactly a strong hand to play recruiting wise.

I don't think that is it. Only one team wins it all, so by that logic every other coach doesn't have a strong hand to play. If guys are picking UNLV and Miss State over us, I don't think a ship is at the top of their list

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

3 high school all Americans signed.
One of the top JuCo transfers highly likely.
The top 5 remaining uncommitted HS players still list UK.

Yep, recruiting has gone to hell!!

 

[true blue1]

Originally posted by AnarchoNeoLuddite:

Originally posted by true blue1:


Not winning it all, I think hurt us. With having the talent we did and not to win it all, gave other coaches a leg to stand on.

Yeah UNLV can say you cant win NCS at UK and here you might even make the tourney.....Miss St convincing Newman he might play in the NIT. Great fodder coaches have...


The Point was coaches telling recruits why go and Sacrifice!!

 

[crazyqx83]

Originally posted by Aike:
1. We aren't having trouble. Our recruiting class is ranked 1st. You have no clue how it will finish, but it won't be much worse than first.

We lost 7 guys, including 80% of our scoring and 75% of our rebounding.

So far we have replaced them with 2 top 10 guys and a top 50 guy.

Contrast that to:

09: 4 top 25 guys
10: 4 top 25 guys
11: 4 top 25 guys (3 top 5 guys)
13: 6 top 20 guys
14: 3 top 25 guys and a top 40 guy

if we don't get any of the remaining elite recruits, this is BY FAR the worst class cal has got since he came.

 

[uk_fan_in_tn]

Originally posted by SilentsAreGolden:

Originally posted by CELTICAT:
We asked very talented players to sacrifice and it didn't amount to anything. That's not exactly a strong hand to play recruiting wise.

I don't think that is it. Only one team wins it all, so by that logic every other coach doesn't have a strong hand to play. If guys are picking UNLV and Miss State over us, I don't think a ship is at the top of their list

There's something to be said about staying and playing at home.

Newman has stated he wants to go somewhere where he gets a lot of shots and is basically "the guy". That's not going to be the case here. He can stay close to home and be "the guy" at Miss State.

 

[spotter34]

I'm not worried about how our class ends up but I think the main reason we haven't closed the deal with a couple of these kids we thought we would land is the platoon system utilized this year. It worked fantastically for this years team and Cal has stated he doesn't want to do it again but other coaches are telling these recruits that they won't play nearly as much at UK than they would at their school. We have a solid core of 5 players right now that are going to play a lot (Ulis, Poy, Skal, Lee, Briscoe). They may not all start but they are going to be in Cal's reduced rotation. That leaves 2-3 spots in that rotation and you have 2 juniors who have practiced for two years against players in the NBA or who are going to the NBA. That's going to benefit those two players and could scare a few players away who are just wanting a guaranteed amount of playing time. You also have a talented kid in Matthews who is going to be battling to get in the rotation and he can play a couple of positions.

We're not going to get 6-7 elite players most of the time. It's not the end of the world. We have 2 elite players and one very good player coming in. Mulder and Thorne would feel our needs immediately but unfortunately for some they don't come with that 5 star stamp we have to have in order for them to be authentic.

 

[CELTICAT]

Originally posted by SilentsAreGolden:

Originally posted by CELTICAT:
We asked very talented players to sacrifice and it didn't amount to anything. That's not exactly a strong hand to play recruiting wise.

I don't think that is it. Only one team wins it all, so by that logic every other coach doesn't have a strong hand to play. If guys are picking UNLV and Miss State over us, I don't think a ship is at the top of their list

I think you're absolutely right about a 'ship not being at the top of the list, but Misstake and UNLV are offering the keys to the kingdom, with no sacrifice in PT, nothing about being their brothers keeper, or any of the others platitudes we hang our hat on. Winning it all validates the message, but lots of programs offer a stepping stone with no other guarantees of success. When we fall short, it makes all things equal to an 18 year old.

 

[UKUGA]

The 2012 class (+ Wiltjer) resulted in us being ranked #3 in the country pre-season.

Enjoy next season, fans.

We bring back experience in the front court and the back court + one of, if not the best recruiting classes in the country.

 

[JasonS.]

Originally posted by JasonSpear:
2012 wasn't lackluster in hype going into the season. Goodwin was top 15. Poythress was top 10-13. Noel was top 2. WCS was top 50ish. It was just that Goodwin was out of control, couldn't shoot, and couldn't really defend worth a damn in college. Poythress really didn't (and still doesn't) have much "basketball skill" outside of being a strong athlete, WCS wasn't ready and needed to develop. Then you have Mays who we all tried to convince ourselves would help the shooting and he was just too slow and unathletic to do much. Harrow was a transfer holdover who was ranked top 25 in his high school class but ended up just being too fragile.

The only new player that year that even remotely lived up to what we all thought he would be was Noel. The class was #2 overall but sure didn't play like it all season.

Yeah, agreed. Not to mention all of the buzz that Harrow spent his season off tearing up Teague in practice and would be an improvement at the point.

 

[crazyqx83]

Originally posted by CELTICAT:
We asked very talented players to sacrifice and it didn't amount to anything. That's not exactly a strong hand to play recruiting wise.

Pure ignorance.

KAT got 20 minutes a game and went from top 5 pick to arguably the #1 pick.

Booker didn't even start and was the 2nd leading scorer and went from maybe first round to likely lottery pick.

WCS was an afterthought in the offense and was a consensus AA and lottery pick.

The spurs players make the same sacrifices and all of those guys are playing well into their 30s and winning NBA championships every 3rd year.

 

[wcc31]

Originally posted by JasonSpear:
2012 wasn't lackluster in hype going into the season. Goodwin was top 15. Poythress was top 10-13. Noel was top 2. WCS was top 50ish. It was just that Goodwin was out of control, couldn't shoot, and couldn't really defend worth a damn in college. Poythress really didn't (and still doesn't) have much "basketball skill" outside of being a strong athlete, WCS wasn't ready and needed to develop. Then you have Mays who we all tried to convince ourselves would help the shooting and he was just too slow and unathletic to do much. Harrow was a transfer holdover who was ranked top 25 in his high school class but ended up just being too fragile.

The only new player that year that even remotely lived up to what we all thought he would be was Noel. The class was #2 overall but sure didn't play like it all season.

That entire class just sucked, not just our class, and it was bad timing for ol' UK considering we had NOTHING back except for a 6'10" jumpshooter who could do only one thing.

At least this year, UK has a good base with Ulis, Poythress, Lee, Hawkins and Willis. Cal learned a lesson.

 

[MSU129]

1. The class we currently have is great!
2. There are returners so just assuming someone walks in and gets PT is wrong...AP and Lee were top players and now will be Junior/Senior, so you have to assume they will be hard to beat for PT.
3. 1 of the recruits wants to play a lot and shoot a lot, and Cal doesn't guarantee anyone that, another recruit is being influenced by shoes (should have watched the 30for30 last night "Sole Man"--explains a lot in these shoe deals), another recruit has been a Duke lean for a while, and another recruit we only got on his radar due to Slice.
4. Duke also has spots to fill and face it they aren't a slack program, just came off a title with mostly freshman scorers.

 

[Aike]

Originally posted by crazyqx83:

Originally posted by Aike:
1. We aren't having trouble. Our recruiting class is ranked 1st. You have no clue how it will finish, but it won't be much worse than first.

We lost 7 guys, including 80% of our scoring and 75% of our rebounding.

So far we have replaced them with 2 top 10 guys and a top 50 guy.

Contrast that to:

09: 4 top 25 guys
10: 4 top 25 guys
11: 4 top 25 guys (3 top 5 guys)
13: 6 top 20 guys
14: 3 top 25 guys and a top 40 guy

if we don't get any of the remaining elite recruits, this is BY FAR the worst class cal has got since he came.

I'm assuming that Poythress will be back and somewhat back to himself. In my mind, he's a fourth quality pickup so far, when comparing 2015's roster to 2016's.

I also think Matthews will rank out a little higher when all is said and done.

And we still don't know who else we are getting. Basically, our class right now is one guy short of some of those you listed above. If you look at the realities of the roster, you could argue that Poythress is that one guy.

Saying it's BY FAR the worst class is an exaggeration, imo. Maybe slightly worse than a bunch of historically great classes??

 

[3bombino96]

Duke winning the title hurt us. It showed recruits that you don't have to go to Kentucky to be a one and done, win a title, and have success. Then look, at a few one and dones, they've been stars in the NBA, then the rest have stayed in the D league.

 

[KingOfBBN]

Originally posted by 3bombino96:
Duke winning the title hurt us. It showed recruits that you don't have to go to Kentucky to be a one and done, win a title, and have success. Then look, at a few one and dones, they've been stars in the NBA, then the rest have stayed in the D league.

Yep. Duke winning with that roster put a big dent in our armour. If only we had to play one tough team and it wasn't til the title game.

We choked and let the refs take it from us.

 

[Poetax]

Originally posted by crazyqx83:

Originally posted by Aike:
1. We aren't having trouble. Our recruiting class is ranked 1st. You have no clue how it will finish, but it won't be much worse than first.

We lost 7 guys, including 80% of our scoring and 75% of our rebounding.

So far we have replaced them with 2 top 10 guys and a top 50 guy.

Contrast that to:

09: 4 top 25 guys
10: 4 top 25 guys
11: 4 top 25 guys (3 top 5 guys)
13: 6 top 20 guys
14: 3 top 25 guys and a top 40 guy

if we don't get any of the remaining elite recruits, this is BY FAR the worst class cal has got since he came.

Honestly when you have a ONCE in a LIFETIME team, did you think it would just happen again because we are Kentucky? Not sure who we end up with but it was never going to be a class of 7 elite recruits like we see leaving. That's either being spoiled or unrealistic to me.

 

[blubo]

dook winning the title has little to do with it. shashitzski, cal, and every other coach in the country have been, and will continue to recruit the very best players that they can get. we've got the #1 class coming in. how can you complain about that? these remaining top players evidently haven't made up their minds for whatever reason but as long as they have uk on their list i think we may get one of them. remember who our coach is.

 

[truebluewildcat]

there is only so much room on a basketball roster...

folks...there are 30 elite ballers every class...simply can't have them all...

3-4 of them makes a great class...5,6,7 of them is just excess icing on the cake...

a lot of kids don't want to be excess icing...

Zimmerman stays home...big deal...his parents went there...he grew up on Rebel basketball and stories about good times in Vegas...

Some years you get a group of kids that are not intimidated of the Kentucky experience and who embrace the work and competition...who are selfless and willing to play together...

some years the crop of talent may be full of guys who feel they don't want or need all that...

sometimes kids just want to get theirs, be the big man, stuff the stat sheet, etc....

 

[feelthebeirne]

Originally posted by maverick1:
Why did my quarter just turn up "heads" on the third flip after it was also "heads" on the first two flips? Three coin flips is a large enough sample size to draw valid conclusions, right?

Yes maverick1, yes it is! Boy, the people on here today are in rare form. A lot of humorous posts and retorts!

 

[crazyqx83]

Originally posted by 3bombino96:
Duke winning the title hurt us. It showed recruits that you don't have to go to Kentucky to be a one and done, win a title, and have success. Then look, at a few one and dones, they've been stars in the NBA, then the rest have stayed in the D league.

Pretty much all of our high level recruits have been drafted and successful in the NBA, with the exception of teague and lamb. Teague left a year early and lamb was never going to be an elite nba prospect. Jury is still out on the Harrisons.

Same can't be said of other schools. Hell duke has had pretty much the biggest flop of any formerly ranked #1 high school prospect in Austin rivers.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Uhh...we currently have the number 1 recruiting class...and that's a struggle?

 

[WildcatFan60]

Also on Zimmerman, I think his HS coach is the brother of the UNLV coach.

 

[cats2010]

Originally posted by SilentsAreGolden:

Originally posted by CELTICAT:
We asked very talented players to sacrifice and it didn't amount to anything. That's not exactly a strong hand to play recruiting wise.

I don't think that is it. Only one team wins it all, so by that logic every other coach doesn't have a strong hand to play. If guys are picking UNLV and Miss State over us, I don't think a ship is at the top of their list

Earlier this year many on this board thought the recruiting would be off the charts moving forward because of this years team. I never bought into that as this years team was an anomaly and also by chance since players stayed when not expected to. Players want to play, not sacrifice and share minutes.

 

[RKulmer]

How about, UK isn't for everybody. So, this class has a lot of............not wanting the pressure and rock-stardom it brings.

 

[JasonS.]

Losing a lead recruiter in the middle of the most critical two-weeks of the year doesn't help.

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

Originally posted by JasonS.:
Losing a lead recruiter in the middle of the most critical two-weeks of the year doesn't help.

Maybe, but wasn't Pastner his lead recruiter at Memphis, and he still got most of his targets to follow him to UK without Pastner at the same time of year?

 

[TheDude73]

Originally posted by true blue1:

Not winning it all, I think hurt us. With having the talent we did and not to win it all, gave other coaches a leg to stand on.

Top kids looking to get to the NBA as fast as possible probably don't put winning it all as a priority over a coach's and school's proven history with getting kids to the NBA. I think this year is just one of those years where the fits just aren't right. It happens. Last year was the extreme opposite - too many fits and none cared about logjams. Not winning it all didn't seem to have a single effect on 7 kids' decisions to leave. In fact, I'm thinking that none of them really had any doubt they were going, win the NC or not.

 

[BigKari]

Lol we have the number 1 recruiting class but apparently there is a "problem with recruiting". There is still a handful of uncommitted 5 star players, and while some are melting down, I still think we get either Brown or Newman. Im hoping for Brown. Then give me Thorne and Mulder and call it a class. Cal does his best with a tight rotation, which is what we'll see next season.

G- Ulis
G- Briscoe
F- Brown
F- Poythress
F-Labissiere

G- Matthews
F- Lee
G- Hawkins
C- Thorne
F- Willis
G- Mulder

Hawkins, Thorne, Willis, and Mulder would be situational players averaging around 8mpg each during the season. By tournament time we have a pretty tight 7 man rotation with starters playing 30+ mpg. This would be another special team.