ADVERTISEMENT

Why are so many fans negative on Archie Goodwin?

Archie is a good case of a kid UK never got to see his best thanks to the one and done rule. Great athlete, could penetrate on anybody, but was so wild and out of control he hurt more than he helped. There was a lot of argument if he was just selfish or he had no other options. I think it was a little of both. He was selfish but after Noel went down, he put it all on his shoulders. However, he wasn't exactly Mr. Assist when he had Noel out there. It was pretty clear him and Harrow didn't mesh at all. He never learned to play through contact at UK. I just think he wanted to be a one and done from the time he stepped on Campus.
 
I never understood how a shooting guard could be so highly ranked and he could not hit an outside shot. You could forget about him passing to an open teammate once he put his head down to drive.

He was on the team where Coach Cal got on them because they would never help each other off of the floor. The team chemistry was horrible on that team and I feel it all started with him since he had the ball in his hands the most.
 
Right now the Suns have 3 ex-UK guards, Bledsoe, Knight, and Goodwin. I can't see anyway they start off next season with all 3. Knight will be a free agent so they may let him go and keep Goodwin. If they decide to keep Knight though it's likely Goodwin will find himself traded, or possibly even dropped. This summer and fall could be a defining time for Goodwin's career in the NBA.
 
Id listen to the argument that Goodwin was the worst of the three, but I disagree that they didn't all have similar issues. Poor shot selection, turnover prone, all three would often recklessly drive and either turn it over or throw up a poor shot. All three were the whipping boys of the fan base during their year here. .

Wow, if you think that Teague and Bledsoe had those issues to a comparable degree as Goodwin, then I have to question what the hell you were watching.

Let's lay out some facts: Marquis Teague has 82 more assists than turnovers during his year at UK, Goodwin on the other hand had 13 more turnovers than assists, that's a 95 point differential in their assist/turnover count. Teague played like a true point focused primarily on defense and distributing, whereas Goodwin played like a wild eyed gunner who often looked obsessed with his own points over everything else (and, yes, he looked like that before Nerlens injury too, so I'm sick of hearing that excuse). Just completely different types of guards.

It is true that Teague was also a fan whipping boy for awhile (although much of it undeserved) and he did make plenty of mistakes early on. BUT one criticism you never heard was anyone calling him selfish, because Teague never looked like a selfish player. Instead he looked like a player who was always at least trying to find his teammates, even if he was making some mistakes while doing so. Conversely, Archie often looked like a guy who either ignored or did not see his teammates at all. When Wiltjer was spotted up wide open in 2012, Teague made sure he got the pass. In that same situation in 2013 Wiltjer would frequently find himself ignored as Archie instead put his head down and forked up another off balance shot with two defenders all over him. THAT'S the fundamental difference between the way those guys played.
 
Last edited:
Funny that the Archie defenders now remember him having to be the PG. Harrow played most of the year, Polson was the PG when he didn't and Mays backed him up at PG. RARELY did Archie play any PG. I swear our fans will say any stupid thing to justify something.

Case in point....
 
Yeah I'm not sure how selfish he was but he played way out of control most of the time. Very talented but sometimes did not play like it because of his youthfulness.

I think a lot of Archie's playing out of control boiled down to him being the only one willing to take a shot at the end of the shot clock. He did have some wild drives, but many of his charges were as much on the officials for assuming a charge before it ever happened as they were on him. He was also playing PG much of the year, a position he wasn't recruited for. Not saying he didn't shoulder some of the blame (they all did), but you could never doubt Archie's effort. He's still on an NBA roster and the Suns love the guy... if he keeps working he'll have a long career as an effort/energy/bench guy. You can't teach his length and athleticism and someone who can guard the 1-3 positions in the NBA is critical.
 
Goodwin was a convenient scapegoat for a disappointing season.

He played hard 100% of the time in a role he shouldn't have had to play, and I appreciated his contributions. Wish he had a sophomore season with us.

Archie as a sophomore on that team.... WOW. It would have been a perfect scenario. A great athletic defender at the 2 or 3 as well as a slasher to clear space for someone like Young or Harrison. He's doing well in the NBA (especially since the Suns have let him learn in the D-League while giving him minutes in the big-time) but I really think he could have helped that team tremendously.
 
He had limitations, but no more so than other OAD's for UK. I mean, compare him to someone like James Young. Very similar numbers, both late first round picks, but perception is greatly skewed because of the teams they were on. In fact, they had similar challenges at UK.
 
He had limitations, but no more so than other OAD's for UK. I mean, compare him to someone like James Young. Very similar numbers, both late first round picks, but perception is greatly skewed because of the teams they were on. In fact, they had similar challenges at UK.
 
Wow, if you think that Teague and Bledsoe had those issues to a comparable degree as Goodwin, then I have to question what the hell you were watching.

Let's lay out some facts: Marquis Teague has 82 more assists than turnovers during his year at UK, Goodwin on the other hand had 13 more turnovers than assists, that's a 95 point differential in their assist/turnover count. Teague played like a true point focused primarily on defense and distributing, whereas Goodwin played like a wild eyed gunner who often looked obsessed with his own points over everything else (and, yes, he looked like that before Nerlens injury too, so I'm sick of hearing that excuse). Just completely different types of guards.

It is true that Teague was also a fan whipping boy for awhile (although much of it undeserved) and he did make plenty of mistakes early on. BUT one criticism you never heard was anyone calling him selfish, because Teague never looked like a selfish player. Instead he looked like a player who was always at least trying to find his teammates, even if he was making some mistakes while doing so. Conversely, Archie often looked like a guy who either ignored or did not see his teammates at all. When Wiltjer was spotted up wide open in 2012, Teague made sure he got the pass. In that same situation in 2013 Wiltjer would frequently find himself ignored as Archie instead put his head down and forked up another off balance shot with two defenders all over him. THAT'S the fundamental difference between the way those guys played.
Like I said, i think you can definitely make the argument that Goodwin was the worst of the three, but they all had similar issues. Teague was never anything special as a passer, and I remember quite a few times where he would take terrible shots instead of trying to work it around. Remember it how you want to I guess.
 
Right now the Suns have 3 ex-UK guards, Bledsoe, Knight, and Goodwin. I can't see anyway they start off next season with all 3. Knight will be a free agent so they may let him go and keep Goodwin. If they decide to keep Knight though it's likely Goodwin will find himself traded, or possibly even dropped. This summer and fall could be a defining time for Goodwin's career in the NBA.
as of right now, you are incorrect. The Suns' GM has said many times he wants to keep all three...the problem is Knight may be too expensive. This is why Goran wanted to leave and why management didn't bend to his demands on staying. They are very happy with these three. Archie has been developing very nicely in the D league, he is going to have a very good year. and BTW he is a great team player.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mashburned
I wasn't crazy about Goodwin, but he earned more respect from me towards the end of the year due to the fact that he was one of few players that fought. He was a warrior. Needed polishing, an obviously wasn't a PG...like the Pg who didn't play and then transferred to some other college with a UL player and started putting up #'s...but he played hard and without fear.

If you're going to trash Archie, which you most certainly should not do, then you need to trash Ryan Harrow, too...which you should not ever do, but if you must...
 
So, a kid who was barely 18 years old when his Freshman season started, played on a directionless team, forced to play out of position and still tried his best is garnering negative comments?

Reason 2 billion and seventy our fanbase is ridiculed and laughed at.

(To play Devils Advocate): if a guy thought he was good enough for the NBA (and he did, hence why he left), he should be able to get thru some of that stuff. (Just playing Devils Advocate).
 
Archie would always go for the big play but I don't think he ever finished one.

He could get up and try to throw down with two hands but he never had a highlight dunk while he was here. (Sure there were some good dunks tho).
 
I often got upset when Archie would "plow down" the lane, head ducked, and throw up a prayer, but in reality he WAS the only true scoring option we had. If we're going to "bash" any one player, it should be Harrow,, IMO. He had no business wearing a UK uniform, and simply was a terrible PG for us. I'm sure he's a great kid, but he went to a smaller school where he belonged to begin with.
 
I wasn't crazy about Goodwin, but he earned more respect from me towards the end of the year due to the fact that he was one of few players that fought. He was a warrior. Needed polishing, an obviously wasn't a PG...like the Pg who didn't play and then transferred to some other college with a UL player and started putting up #'s...but he played hard and without fear.

If you're going to trash Archie, which you most certainly should not do, then you need to trash Ryan Harrow, too...which you should not ever do, but if you must...
People who want to rip Goodwin should consider these numbers:

15.6 ppg on 50% shooting, plus 5 rebounds per game.

That's what Goodwin put up the last 8 games of the year, after Noel's injury (minus the 30 point loss to UT immediately following Noel's injury, which I'll disregard because the entire team seemed shell-shocked). That includes 18 of UK's 57 points in the loss to Robert Morris.

People need a scapegoat for 12-13, but they're looking in the wrong place when they look at Goodwin. If you want a reason why that team disintegrated after Noel's injury, look at Harrow, look at Wiltjer, look at Poythress. Those guys just couldn't step up, at least not consistently, and folded as the season collapsed on their heads. Goodwin, OTOH, kept battling.
 
I often got upset when Archie would "plow down" the lane, head ducked, and throw up a prayer, but in reality he WAS the only true scoring option we had. If we're going to "bash" any one player, it should be Harrow,, IMO. He had no business wearing a UK uniform, and simply was a terrible PG for us. I'm sure he's a great kid, but he went to a smaller school where he belonged to begin with.

Since you mentioned Harrow...

Not a huge Harrow guy, but I give the kid the benefit of the doubt. UK isn't for everyone and he obviously had off the court stuff going on with his father's? health issues. I think a lot of Ryan's criticism comes from, of course, how he handled things but also just playing on that trainwreck NIT team. In reality, Ryan wasn't a bad ball player when his head was actually in the game.

The ironic thing is, Ryan (2013) and Andrew Harrison's (2015) season stats were pretty similar. Roughly 9 ppg, 3 apg, and 1.5 tov's pg for each but Ryan is often labeled as a terrible PG and Andrew was said to have had a great season and playing his way in the draft especially towards season end.

The point is this....winning cures all. So just win baby.
 
Archie was drafted at 18 yrs old He has 2 yrs in the NBA before his 21st birthday. When the Suns were making trades (at least the past couple) they made it clear they wanted to keep him. He just needs minutes as he can make unbelievable plays. He can possibly be an All Star in his career.
Look at his UK highlights vs UL,amazing. He was immature and fact is how much talent was on that team,esp after NN went down?
Count me as a big fan.
 
Archie was a horrid UK player, in one of our worst seasons ever. Drove to the lane and threw up prayers. Him and Orton, least fav players ever in Calipari era.
 
  • Like
Reactions: anewfanatic
I dont like bashing former players, period.
Neither do I, maybe Archie was perceived a little has someone that came UCalipari not UK just to try to get better prepared for NBA...but had he been on a team that was not short handed and he didn't feel he had to do it all, he might have a great season at Kentucky...I like Archie. I believe that most of these short term players we get really like the BBN and their time at Kentucky not sure Archie embraced that as much.... but everyone has different personalities and deal with things differently.
 
I liked Archie - and thought he meant well. He knew our situation was rough for various reasons, and wanted to "save the team." Unfortunately, while he was talented, he didn't have quite enough to carry a team by himself. I believe he did his best - but unfortunately, much of that translated to a seeming ball-hog attitude, and he WAS out of control often enough.
Personally, I believe that we wouldn't have won as many games as we did if it weren't for Archie. Just my opinion.
 
Archie just wasn't a very smart basketball player. The only reason he's in the league is his athleticism - his basketball IQ just isn't there.
 
Never hated on the kid, but Archie was VERY prone to taking ill-advised shots at inopportune times. If you look at his production throughout his season here, you'll see that, although he hit 44% of his shots, he always seemed out of control and was always going one on one with his defenders and hardly ever included his teammates, choosing instead to force shots up in the paint over 2 or 3 guys instead of looking for open shooters on the wings. Of course, that could be a product of the team he was on and maybe I'm projecting on him a bit because of how terrible that season was, but he didn't do much to make it better. He averaged 14 of the ugliest points a game that I've ever seen and I never really felt he was really a "team" player. Worst of all was his putrid free-throw shooting. For someone who drives to the basket looking for the shot or the foul, he certainly didn't earn much from the stripe (shooting just under 64%, and honestly that number astounded me because if I had to guess, I'd have guessed he shot somewhere in the 55% range for the season).
 
Goodwin's career stats:

Season Games Minutes FG FGA % 3PtFG 3PtFGA % FT FTA % Def Off TotalRebs Asst. St. BS F TO Total Points Avg
2012-13 33 1048 157 357 43.98 17 64 26.56 135 212 63.68 104 48 152 88 36 15 97 101 466 14.2
 
I think Archie was our best player after nerlens. He busted his rear end every play too. I think e had a low ball iq and made some bonehead plays. But he oozed potential despite not being a good shooter. I think everyone needs a whipping boy and Archie catches it a lot because he probably should have developed another year but made the right financial decision. I think many just have negative feelings toward that 2013 team and who catches it? The players
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT