Who in the SEC gets the most favorable whistle?

[AGEE11]

Most home teams in SEC games get the favorably whistle.

However, I think Vandy and Arkansas are by far the worst.

Shockingly the two best teams for the last bit, Florida and UK seem to be at the bottom of the list from the old AGEE11 eyeball test.

As someone mentioned earlier, this year you have Ben Simmons. My wife has taken to calling him "Baby Jesus" cause she said the refs and announcers all act like he can walk on water. She also said getting too close to him is special for other players, but they must pay with a foul. Several games this year, including UKs, he was given a whistle like LeBron or Jordan get.

 

[docholiday51]

Most home teams in SEC games get the favorably whistle.

However, I think Vandy and Arkansas are by far the worst.

Shockingly the two best teams for the last bit, Florida and UK seem to be at the bottom of the list from the old AGEE11 eyeball test.

As someone mentioned earlier, this year you have Ben Simmons. My wife has taken to calling him "Baby Jesus" cause she said the refs and announcers all act like he can walk on water. She also said getting too close to him is special for other players, but they must pay with a foul. Several games this year, including UKs, he was given a whistle like LeBron or Jordan get.

How did you pick your screen name?,I will explain if you care to respond.

 

[Bert Higginbotha]

Whichever team is aggressive and draws fouls.

I'm sorry. I think refs might be inconsistent but I don't believe certain teams get better whistles than others.

Teams that are aggressive and drive the ball get to the line more than teams that shoot jump shots.

WOW!

Okay, then how in hell can you explain jump shooting Vandy's 25-6 free throw advantage?

 

[Bert Higginbotha]

Unfortunately, certain people, sometimes even normally rational people, can't have a single sane thought in their head about officiating, and turn into the type of raving paranoid loons who burned witches 500 years ago.

Geeze.

I have a friend who officiates basketball with Doug Shows. Doug Shows hates Kentucky. He is not supposed to call UK games but he lies on his favored or hated teams.

But you go ahead and condemn those raving paranoid loons. In the mean time I am out looking for some damned witches.

 

[Bert Higginbotha]

Very rational. You should be a witch-hunter.

This might be helpful.

You are really into the witches. Do you live in Mass.?

 

[mj2k10]

You are really into the witches. Do you live in Mass.?

I'm really into rational thinking. And witches are a convenient symbol of the exact opposite.

As for UK/Vandy, part of the reason that Vandy had that FT edge is because they basically weren't guarding anyone. Hard to commit fouls when you're not really playing defense.

Layups>FT's. And UK had way, way, way more than Vandy.

 

[The_Answer1313]

WOW!

Okay, then how in hell can you explain jump shooting Vandy's 25-6 free throw advantage?

It's exactly what I said.
Vandy ranks first in the SEC in free throw rate. UK is 13th at fouling.

Futhermore in SEC games..........UK is 13th in free throw rate on offense

When your 13th in fouling and 13th in getting to the line, can you really be surprised when there's a disparity in free throws.

This season just seems to be an outlier tho compared to other Cal seasons. Normally we have a substantial free throw disparity in our favor.

Free Throw Rate Rankings Under Cal
10 = 54th
11 = 219th
12 = 47th
13 = 36th
14 = 12th
15 = 41st
16 = 105th

So other than 2011 and this year pretty good.

The flipside here's our defense numbers as far as fouling goes:
10 = 25th
11 = 38th
12 = 8th
13 = 53rd
14 = 99th
15 = 64th
16 = 203rd

 

[The_Answer1313]

I don't have shot chart data on Vandy but maybe your perception of Vandy as a jump shooting team isn't accurate. Vandy has 3 players in the top 100 in getting to the line. They have two players that have attempted over 100 free throws.

UK has none. Ulis has attempted 95. But he's 327th in the NCAA in drawling fouls. The next closest is Alex at 70

 

[anon_013cn8yrfncx2]

Do refs deliberately miss calls? Get the tape of last years title game. Go to a key play near the end when Winslow gets a loose ball on the baseline with his heel clearly on the line and joe derosa looking down right at his feet. No call and Duke gets the biggest bucket of the game. Joe Derosa deliberately refused to make that call.

 

[Jamal Mercer]

Some people wear the tinfoil hat all day, every day.

 

[AGEE11]

How did you pick your screen name?,I will explain if you care to respond.

Last name and my old jersey number

 

[docholiday51]

Last name and my old jersey number

Thought it might be last name, I have some family connection by that name

 

[AGEE11]

Thought it might be last name, I have some family connection by that name

Richmond area?

 

[docholiday51]

Richmond area?

Clinton Co and in later years Lexington area

 

[Bert Higginbotha]

It's exactly what I said.
Vandy ranks first in the SEC in free throw rate. UK is 13th at fouling.

Futhermore in SEC games..........UK is 13th in free throw rate on offense

When your 13th in fouling and 13th in getting to the line, can you really be surprised when there's a disparity in free throws.

This season just seems to be an outlier tho compared to other Cal seasons. Normally we have a substantial free throw disparity in our favor.

Free Throw Rate Rankings Under Cal
10 = 54th
11 = 219th
12 = 47th
13 = 36th
14 = 12th
15 = 41st
16 = 105th

So other than 2011 and this year pretty good.

The flipside here's our defense numbers as far as fouling goes:
10 = 25th
11 = 38th
12 = 8th
13 = 53rd
14 = 99th
15 = 64th
16 = 203rd

Holy crap. Why don't you watch games instead of depending on a data base to tell you what in hell you saw.

.

 

[howercat]

kentucky is the only team in SEC, that does not get any home cookin. just sayin

 

[The_Answer1313]

Holy crap. Why don't you watch games instead of depending on a data base to tell you what in hell you saw.

.

Maybe I'm just not as bias as you are.

 

[The_Answer1313]

Holy crap. Why don't you watch games instead of depending on a data base to tell you what in hell you saw.

.

I mean are you really gonna sit here and tell me that our bigs (namely Alex, lee and Skal) don't get into foul trouble? That they don't have issues with fouling.

What we saw was predictable based on how the season has gone for both teams.

Or we can just sit here and believe that every ref is out to get UK. Cause that line of thinking is much more rational.

 

[Bert Higginbotha]

I mean are you really gonna sit here and tell me that our bigs (namely Alex, lee and Skal) don't get into foul trouble? That they don't have issues with fouling.

What we saw was predictable based on how the season has gone for both teams.

Or we can just sit here and believe that every ref is out to get UK. Cause that line of thinking is much more rational.

Dear Answer: They did not have that problem prior to the stupid SEC.

I don't want to argue with crap that neither of us can prove; however, I have 59 years of closely watching UK basketball. I am a basketball nut and watch basketball about 30-40 hours a week. I simply go on the eye test.

Hell even Duke got the best calls last night against Miami.

I don't want to piss you off so I am out of here. Maybe sometime you should pick up basketball. It is a good sport.

 

[namnik]

Life on the road for any team is tough but certain places are tougher than others. I'm not talking about crowd noise, etc. I'm talking about calls/non calls.

Each year is different. I thought the game at Arkansas two years ago was maybe the worst officiated game in recent memory. There have been other badly called games here and there but I think generally most games are called ok. But I would have to say the most consistently poorly officiated SEC road venue would have to be at Vandy. Vandy seems to be the Duke of the SEC in regards to officiating. Not looking forward to going there later this season.

This poll was done many years ago by ESPN I think and Duke then Kentucky were voted nationwide #1 and #2 for the most favorable whistles. Now that's certainly not scientific just people clicking a button.

 

[The_Answer1313]

Dear Answer: They did not have that problem prior to the stupid SEC.

I don't want to argue with crap that neither of us can prove; however, I have 59 years of closely watching UK basketball. I am a basketball nut and watch basketball about 30-40 hours a week. I simply go on the eye test.

Hell even Duke got the best calls last night against Miami.

I don't want to piss you off so I am out of here. Maybe sometime you should pick up basketball. It is a good sport.

I probably watch an equal amount of basketball. I'm a basketball nut. Just because I like to support my arguments with numbers doesn't mean anything. I just feel it's a better reasoning then "well this is what I saw".

But I also know that as fans of a particular team, we are always gonna be bias to that team.

You can go on any message board and I bet they all say the same thing......those fans really believe their team is on the short end of the refs whistles.

I'm sure there's some bias in refs. I just don't believe it's at a team level. I'm sure that refs blow more whistles against a road team compared to the home team. That might make up for some of the difference in home court advantage. But I don't think that out of 356 D1 schools that the refs sit down with each other and say hmm ok guys this year let's pick UK as the team we go after. I also don't believe they sit there and say "well Team A has 20 Free Throws and Team B has 10 so lets call more fouls on A to even it up.

 

[The_Answer1313]

This poll was done many years ago by ESPN I think and Duke then Kentucky were voted nationwide #1 and #2 for the most favorable whistles. Now that's certainly not scientific just people clicking a button.

Not surprising. Because lots of fans will look at free throws attempted vs how much an opponent has attempted and most years UK and Duke have a huge advantage.

Most fans make the same mistake and feel that's because of the refs. But it's not. We are just more aggressive.

 

[UKUGA]

I'd say Vandy, Mississippi State, and Arkansas.

 

[IIIBradIII]

The same Vandy team that leads the Sec in free throw rate?

Against a UK team where we have multiple players that can't play defense without getting into foul trouble? The same UK defense that ranks 13th in the SEC in Free Throw Rate.

Your right. Must have watched a different game

Or maybe just maybe Vandy is good at drawing fouls and we are bad at fouling.

This is the precise flaw of thinking that causes officials to call games as badly as they did against vandy. Rather than call the game as it is played, they anticipate ahead of time and call it the way they expect it to go.

According to that thought process, it would be acceptable to call a football offensive line for false starts in a particular game based on their average of false starts in the past, even if they didn't budge an inch the whole game.

After such a debacle the referee apologists would just rotely state, "Nothing out of the ordinary happened. They false started right at their average all season!"

Why even play the games then? Let's just play a few games a year, determine some avg stats, and then dump it all into a computer to simulate the rest of the season.

Good grief man.

 

[The_Answer1313]

Oh please you think the refs know this before games and as a result call the game differently because they could just say "well in retrospect this team always draws more fouls"

Come on.

 

[The_Answer1313]

I could easily say the same thing.

If you really believe refs have that big of an effect on the game and these refs have it in for certain teams, then why on earth are we playing the games to begin with?

It's already been a predetermined outcome.


I refuse to believe that tho.

 

[G-PIP]

Referee blaming is a well-known example of the psychological principle known as attribution bias. It is based on the fact that rather than operating as objective perceivers, fans are naturally prone to perceptual errors and biased interpretations of outcomes.The principle explains the human tendency to take credit for success while often denying any responsibility for failures. For example, a fan of a team that wins will likely say, "my team won because they played well," whereas a fan of the loser will frequently say, "we lost because the referees were unfair."

But anyone trying to convince the referee conspiracy group that they might not be perceiving things correctly is wasting their time. The human mind can rationalize anything and convince itself that logic supports whatever it wants to believe. Furthermore referee blaming is a long-standing tradition, and many have grown up with it and are 2nd or 3rd generation referee conspiracists. You are just not going to overcome that.

 

[The_Answer1313]

Referee blaming is a well-known example of the psychological principle known as attribution bias. It is based on the fact that rather than operating as objective perceivers, fans are naturally prone to perceptual errors and biased interpretations of outcomes.The principle explains the human tendency to take credit for success while often denying any responsibility for failures. For example, a fan of a team that wins will likely say, "my team won because they played well," whereas a fan of the loser will frequently say, "we lost because the referees were unfair."

But anyone trying to convince the referee conspiracy group that they might not be perceiving things correctly is wasting their time. The human mind can rationalize anything and convince itself that logic supports whatever it wants to believe. Furthermore referee blaming is a long-standing tradition, and many have grown up with it and are 2nd or 3rd generation referee conspiracists. You are just not going to overcome that.

I agree with all of this.

I knew I was facing an uphill battle. I dunno why I do it but I get sucked in lol.

 

[kat57]

I think South Carolina gets home cooking.

 

[Bkocats]

Sure we do, an SEC official was on the grassy knoll in 63'

there were two guys, actually, the other one was Mark Emmert

 

[kat57]

It's exactly what I said.
Vandy ranks first in the SEC in free throw rate. UK is 13th at fouling.

Futhermore in SEC games..........UK is 13th in free throw rate on offense

When your 13th in fouling and 13th in getting to the line, can you really be surprised when there's a disparity in free throws.

This season just seems to be an outlier tho compared to other Cal seasons. Normally we have a substantial free throw disparity in our favor.

Free Throw Rate Rankings Under Cal
10 = 54th
11 = 219th
12 = 47th
13 = 36th
14 = 12th
15 = 41st
16 = 105th

So other than 2011 and this year pretty good.

The flipside here's our defense numbers as far as fouling goes:
10 = 25th
11 = 38th
12 = 8th
13 = 53rd
14 = 99th
15 = 64th
16 = 203rd

Who puts teams at the free throw line? Who calls fouls on players. Those stats are meaningless

 

[The_Answer1313]

Who puts teams at the free throw line? Who calls fouls on players. Those stats are meaningless

Teams foul or they don't foul.

But we are just gonna have to agree to disagree. I agree with the other poster. There's no convincing the "ref is out to get us" crowd.

 

[G-PIP]

Teams foul or they don't foul.

But we are just gonna have to agree to disagree. I agree with the other poster. There's no convincing the "ref is out to get us" crowd.

I used to try to get a few of my friends who were definitely 2nd generation referee conspiracists to see how irrational their thinking on this was, but I gave up when it came to me one day that maybe that whole thing was part of their enjoyment of the games or maybe it gave them an outlet for their frustration with a loss. I decided that either way I didn’t want to try to take that away, especially since it was harmless. Now when we’re watching a game together I just play along and don’t try to disabuse them of the notion.

 

[tdear1]

Id say Vanderbilt

I'd agree, plus they have that unusual placement of team benches & shot clocks. That has to give them an advantage also.

 

[fabcat]

Ben Simmons.

 

[IIIBradIII]

I could easily say the same thing.

If you really believe refs have that big of an effect on the game and these refs have it in for certain teams, then why on earth are we playing the games to begin with?

It's already been a predetermined outcome.


I refuse to believe that tho.

Not necessarily a predetermined outcome (we're often good enough most years to overcome poor officiating), but a preconceived notion of how a game is likely to go. Add to that some personal bias (we ALL have it, even officials, so let's not deny the obvious), a rowdy crowd, lack of attention at critical times of a game, etc, and you have a mess.

Listen, there is a reason that the NCAA reviews most football plays - mistakes happen! There is no way that referees can get it right 100% of the time, and the football crowd demanded better. Until the basketball crowd does the same, we will keep dealing with unfairness in our game. And frankly, I'm tired of it.

 

[michaeluk26]

Life on the road for any team is tough but certain places are tougher than others. I'm not talking about crowd noise, etc. I'm talking about calls/non calls.

Each year is different. I thought the game at Arkansas two years ago was maybe the worst officiated game in recent memory. There have been other badly called games here and there but I think generally most games are called ok. But I would have to say the most consistently poorly officiated SEC road venue would have to be at Vandy. Vandy seems to be the Duke of the SEC in regards to officiating. Not looking forward to going there later this season.

That Arkansas game you mentioned is the only time I've truly felt the refs caused the loss. It was terrible.

The problem with officiating is calls change from game to game, hell from half to half. Its amazing how different 2 games can be called completely different. No wonder our players foul a lot.

 

[Katwatcher]

Do refs deliberately miss calls? Get the tape of last years title game. Go to a key play near the end when Winslow gets a loose ball on the baseline with his heel clearly on the line and joe derosa looking down right at his feet. No call and Duke gets the biggest bucket of the game. Joe Derosa deliberately refused to make that call.

Sorry, that is just your opinion of what happened. There is no way that you know it was deliberate. Joe Derosa evidently did not think his heel was on line. Those kind of calls are judgement calls .There is a possibility he had a better view than the camera, in fact you said he was looking down right at his feet.

On the other hand he may have been mistaken, but to say he deliberately refused to make the call is something you have no way of knowing.

 

[Katwatcher]

I used to try to get a few of my friends who were definitely 2nd generation referee conspiracists to see how irrational their thinking on this was, but I gave up when it came to me one day that maybe that whole thing was part of their enjoyment of the games or maybe it gave them an outlet for their frustration with a loss. I decided that either way I didn’t want to try to take that away, especially since it was harmless. Now when we’re watching a game together I just play along and don’t try to disabuse them of the notion.

I think you have it right without a doubt.

 

[crestcat]

I have see two UK games in the last couple of years where an opponent had half of his body
laying across the white line, a ref was staring down at him and in neither instance was he called out of bounds. He laid there for several seconds so this was not something that was too fast to tell what happened.

I cannot imagine what reason they had for not making the call but the only two things that come to my mind are incompetent or dishonest.