WCS foul or block?

[ColonelCat]

When willie was called for the foul late on a 3 point attempt. It's very obvious he got a piece of the ball, therefore a block. I thought when a block was noticed or obvious, there could be no foul? The ball came up short about 10 feet. The ref was right on the play and he called a foul instead. Moody couldn't continue, and the sub made just 1 of 3 . We are very lucky that Moody cramped up, as he is a terrific FT shooter.

 

[BigBlueDiehard]

I was sitting behind that basket and it looked like a clear foul to me. He did get a piece of the ball, but got him pretty good on his arm on the follow through (which is still a foul).

 

[docholiday51]

WCS blocked the ball a foot or so after it left his hand but there was clearly contact with the shooters hand by WCS after the block so I think it was a foul.

 

[wildcatdonf]

I didn't have a problem with that call. We were lucky (only 1 FT made.)

 

[Ugoff]

I think the op's question is, can it still be a foul if the block occurred first. I must say I thought it could, but I'm not really sure.

 

[ukcatsfan2]

Contact after a block shot CAN NOT be ignored.

having said that, after watching a college game, sometime I don't know what a foul is....

.

 

[mailman85]

I've always heard the hand is part of the ball. Don't think you can hit their arm, elbow and not be a foul.

 

[CatsIndy2010]

Its part of the show. People want to see a guy throw up a 3 and get knocked down by the defense. So they say its a foul.


I think it was a block if it were shot in the paint....

 

[Desperado_1955]

When I played, the hand was considered a part of the ball, and no foul was called.

 

[far_away_fan]

Here are the two relevant rules. You can decide whether or not it was a foul for yourself. Quotes from the NCAA rulebook for 2014-2015.

Rule 4:
Section 18: Hands and Arms, Use of

Art. 2. It shall be legal for a defender to accidentally hit the hand of a ballhandler
when reaching to block or slap the ball when there is player control with
that player's hand in contact with the ball and when that player is:
a. A dribbler;
b. Attempting a try for field goal; or
c. Holding the ball.

Rule 10
Section 1: Personal fouls

Art. 2. A player shall not contact an opponent with his hand unless such contact
is only with the opponent's hand while it is on the ball and is incidental to an
attempt to play the ball.




This post was edited on 1/7 5:10 PM by far_away_fan

 

[ColonelCat]

I'm still confused. when the blocks occur under the basket, the player sometimes gets hammered and nothing is called. The rules that one poster supplied are still not clear IMO, but we were still lucky Moody couldn't go, and Cal's staff picked the player to miss 2 outa 3..

Willie prolly hit his arm after the ball was gone, and hence the foul..It's history now..

 

[wldktz8]

Originally posted by far_away_fan:
Here are the two relevant rules. You can decide whether or not it was a foul for yourself. Quotes from the NCAA rulebook for 2014-2015.

Rule 4:
Section 18: Hands and Arms, Use of


Art. 2. It shall be legal for a defender to accidentally hit the hand of a ballhandler

when reaching to block or slap the ball when there is player control with

that player's hand in contact with the ball and when that player is:

a. A dribbler;

b. Attempting a try for field goal; or

c. Holding the ball.

Rule 10
Section 1: Personal fouls


Art. 2. A player shall not contact an opponent with his hand unless such contact

is only with the opponent's hand while it is on the ball and is incidental to an

attempt to play the ball.





This post was edited on 1/7 5:10 PM by far_away_fan

It should have been play on. I'm a firm believer that after a shot has left the hands of the shooter and minor incidental contact is made it should be play on. As long as the defender gained no advantage over the shooter with the contact then it's not a foul. It also should be an offensive foul when the shooter pumps and leans into the player. The defender can leave the ground so long as they stay in their plane.

 

[UKGrad93]

Originally posted by ColonelCat:
I'm still confused. when the blocks occur under the basket, the player sometimes gets hammered and nothing is called. The rules that one poster supplied are still not clear IMO, but we were still lucky Moody couldn't go, and Cal's staff picked the player to miss 2 outa 3..

Willie prolly hit his arm after the ball was gone, and hence the foul..It's history now..

On the replay, it looked like Willy got him on the arm after the ball was released. I'll admit to having a poor understanding of the rules, but why is it a foul if contact occurred after the ball was released? Seems like that contact would have no bearing on the ability to hit the shot.

 

[ktbug]

I thought the call was fine, and Willy didn't seem to complain. There were a lot of bad calls, but this wasn;t one of them imho.

 

[cats2010]

I was sitting behind the basket and did not have a great view of it. I saw willie make the block cleanly and then Moody went down afterwards. Actually thought Willie might have made contact with his legs as Moody was sticking one leg straight out toward the basket as part of his follow through and from the angel willie took he would have made contact with the leg. They never showed a replay in Rupp so never got a chance to review it again.

Ole miss players were doing a good job of selling fouls to the officials by pump faking and then drawing contact or at least contorting their body to make it appear as if they had been contacted. Really needs to be a point of emphasis in officiating to not let offensive players jump into the defender to draw contact. If there is any foul to be called it should be an offensive foul but stupid officials call it on defense every single time. Likewise you should not be able to throw a leg way out to try and draw contact either. As long as a defender does not make contact in your perpendicular plane should be play on.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

It was a block. Pretty clean actually. Getting the hand on the follow through after blocking the ball is fine.

The ref called the foul because Moody went down in a heap even though there was no contact other than the hand. however, unlike the flopping Cardinals, Moody went down because he was again cramping up. Ref saw him collapse, called WCS for "knocking him down" when nothing of the sort occurred.

Just a blown call, plain and simple. If Moody doesn't cramp up, he doesn't get the call. 1/3 on the FT was partial justice. (0-3 would have been better)

 

[far_away_fan]

Just to play devil's advocate, one could make a strong claim that Willie did gain an advantage by hitting the player after the ball was released. Namely, perhaps Willie wouldn't have been able to block the shot unless he swung hard enough that the follow through hit the player. So if it would be possible to block the shot only if he hit the arm, hitting the arm gave him an advantage.

With that said, I think the previous poster nailed it. The foul was called because the shooter hit the floor, and the ref assumed that Willie fouled him causing him to hit the floor when it was really just a cramp.

With that said, this wasn't one of the 10 worst calls to go against the Cats in that game, so it probably doesn't deserve so much thought.

 

[westerncat]

Originally posted by Dennis Reynolds:
It was a block. Pretty clean actually. Getting the hand on the follow through after blocking the ball is fine.

The ref called the foul because Moody went down in a heap even though there was no contact other than the hand. however, unlike the flopping Cardinals, Moody went down because he was again cramping up. Ref saw him collapse, called WCS for "knocking him down" when nothing of the sort occurred.

Just a blown call, plain and simple. If Moody doesn't cramp up, he doesn't get the call. 1/3 on the FT was partial justice. (0-3 would have been better)

I was at the game and it happened right in front of me and I agree with the Dennis on this. I was no more than 15 ft. from the play.

This post was edited on 1/7 11:37 PM by westerncat

 

[caneintally]

if that is a foul then almost everything is a foul but of all the bad calls in that game that wasn't that bad. But still i didn't like it .

 

[kat57]

It was a late whistle...

 

[SpensBRJ]

I was watching a game the other night on the mother ship and the color commentator... can't remember who, made the comment about college basketball officials are the worst in their field and there is a major education issue within the entire organization.... then he said and that will be the last thing I will say about them for the game.

 

[BlueCat43]

Originally posted by wldktz8:

Originally posted by far_away_fan:
Here are the two relevant rules. You can decide whether or not it was a foul for yourself. Quotes from the NCAA rulebook for 2014-2015.

Rule 4:
Section 18: Hands and Arms, Use of


Art. 2. It shall be legal for a defender to accidentally hit the hand of a ballhandler

when reaching to block or slap the ball when there is player control with

that player's hand in contact with the ball and when that player is:

a. A dribbler;

b. Attempting a try for field goal; or

c. Holding the ball.

Rule 10
Section 1: Personal fouls


Art. 2. A player shall not contact an opponent with his hand unless such contact

is only with the opponent's hand while it is on the ball and is incidental to an

attempt to play the ball.





This post was edited on 1/7 5:10 PM by far_away_fan

It should have been play on. I'm a firm believer that after a shot has left the hands of the shooter and minor incidental contact is made it should be play on. As long as the defender gained no advantage over the shooter with the contact then it's not a foul. It also should be an offensive foul when the shooter pumps and leans into the player. The defender can leave the ground so long as they stay in their plane.

I completely agree. It seems that the idea that the defensive player is also allowed their position seems to have been forgotten somewhere through the years.

 

[preacherfan]

Originally posted by ktbug:
I thought the call was fine, and Willy didn't seem to complain. There were a lot of bad calls, but this wasn;t one of them imho.

This. That will be called a foul almost EVERY time. We have gotten that call many times over the years and will continue to do so. I honestly don't get the complaints about this particular call.