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Vitale's obsession with Okaforv

nookam

nookam

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Mar 4, 2012
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Watching the Notre Dame -Miami game and has went on and on about why didn't the Lakers take Okafor. No mention of character problems?
Dick also pimped Okafor as the best player and should be the #1 pick. No mention of what a historically great season KAT is having and the fact Mn got it right
He also thinks straight out of high school or mandatory 3 years, the baseball rule. Guess he doesn't care those extra 2 years could mean 60 mil or so at the end of career final contract.
 
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Two things.

First... Booker, better than Okafor? 7 points and 5 rebounds fewer per game, same assists, better? Turner, with 7 points and 3 boards and an assist fewer, better? Russell, 5 points fewer and half as many rebounds, better? All this, despite Okafor being the first, second, and third focus of opposing defenses, and being saddle with the crappiest team in NBA history (which is important for bigs, who don't move the ball or initiate the offense and can't pass to themselves...) I think you might be biased.

And yes, I am like this in real life. When people are immature and don't show obvious signs of thinking (the types who viscerally hate other teams, convinced that their coaches are horrible people and their players are terrible people and all their fans suck... You know, that sort?) I tend to call them on it. I have very low patience for that sort of silliness, and I am rather notorious for a distinct lack of sugar coating.
 
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the sixers are at their absolute worst when okafor is on the floor

doesn't rebound at a high level, doesn't defend, inveterate ballstopper

you use counting stats and don't even adjust to per 36, but you're going to talk down to me

clown
 
11 rebounds per 36 minutes LOL
cousins has a jumpshot, is a good passer, and projected as a decent defender LOL
sit down and shut up LOL
 
JohnnyGentle said:
11 rebounds per 36 minutes LOL
cousins has a jumpshot, is a good passer, and projected as a decent defender LOL
sit down and shut up LOL
Click to expand...
I am saying compare his rookie season to okafor . I think Okafor will be a great scorer in the league. He has time to Improve other parts of his game
 
11 rebounds per 36 is from cousins' rookie season

okafor is at 8.5

considering that okafor is a ball-dominant slug of a player who drags his team 20 years back in time, that's a significant difference

the things he can't do--defend, run, leave the floor twice in a three second span--aren't really areas that players improve in with time

he's a poor defender at a position where defense is more important. and his offense is overrated, because he's a terrible passer who doesn't do any work without the ball

nitwits like bilas compare him to duncan. he's more like al jefferson or kanter
 
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JohnnyGentle said:
11 rebounds per 36 is from cousins' rookie season

okafor is at 8.5

considering that okafor is a ball-dominant slug of a player who drags his team 20 years back in time, that's a significant difference

the things he can't do--defend, run, leave the floor twice in a three second span--aren't really areas that players improve in with time

he's a poor defender at a position where defense is more important. and his offense is overrated, because he's a terrible passer who doesn't do any work without the ball

nitwits like bilas compare him to duncan. he's more like al jefferson or kanter
Click to expand...
Or maybe part of the issue is that okafor is only playing with one nba level player in noel. He can improve in those areas. I still think he needs to lose a good 15 pounds and that will help in those areas
 
CatsnRoses said:
Truth is KAT and Porzingis have been far and away the two best rookies in the NBA. Most NBA people (meaning those who watch the NBA day in and day out) are pretty meh on Okafor.
Click to expand...
It helps those two guys that they are actually playing with nba level players
 
nookam said:
Watching the Notre Dame -Miami game and has went on and on about why didn't the Lakers take Okafor. No mention of character problems?
Dick also pimped Okafor as the best player and should be the #1 pick. No mention of what a historically great season KAT is having and the fact Mn got it right
He also thinks straight out of high school or mandatory 3 years, the baseball rule. Guess he doesn't care those extra 2 years could mean 60 mil or so at the end of career final contract.
Click to expand...

He likes those Pukie bad boys. Bar Brawlin' Okafor. Foot stompin' Laetner. Or was that Slum Lord Laetner
 
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it also helps that they're way better athletes and that they play way harder and that they aren't spoiled brats raised by lunatics who heckle their nba coaches from the stands

it's not anyone else's fault that towns and porzingis are better, more complete players
 
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Testkid said:
It helps those two guys that they are actually playing with nba level players
Click to expand...

KAT makes his team much better.

Okafor is a fantastic offensive player but he nearly gives it back on the defensive end and doesn't really make his team better. The Sixers often seem to play better without him.

If Embiid can make it back (a huge IF) the Sixers would be better off trading Okafor IMO.
 
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Towns and Porzingis have been better. And in the long run id probably take Turner and Booker as well.
At this point in the year Turner has a higher PER than Okafor and is a better defender/rebounder/jump shooter than Okafor. Okafor clearly has a very advanced post game but thats about it.
Booker is quietly having a great rookie year shooting over 40% from both 3 and the field while shooting over 80% from the line.
I think Towns and Porzingis rookie years speak for themselves. As far as potential goes id venture to take both Turner and Booker over Okafor. Its too early to tell what their entire careers will look like but all of them have incredibly promising futures.
 
TheDude1 said:
Two things.

First... Booker, better than Okafor? 7 points and 5 rebounds fewer per game, same assists, better? Turner, with 7 points and 3 boards and an assist fewer, better? Russell, 5 points fewer and half as many rebounds, better? All this, despite Okafor being the first, second, and third focus of opposing defenses, and being saddle with the crappiest team in NBA history (which is important for bigs, who don't move the ball or initiate the offense and can't pass to themselves...) I think you might be biased.

And yes, I am like this in real life. When people are immature and don't show obvious signs of thinking (the types who viscerally hate other teams, convinced that their coaches are horrible people and their players are terrible people and all their fans suck... You know, that sort?) I tend to call them on it. I have very low patience for that sort of silliness, and I am rather notorious for a distinct lack of sugar coating.
Click to expand...

Over the past 5 games:

Devin Booker: 19 points per game, 3.8 assists, 3.8 rebounds,
Jahlil Okafor: 6.6 points per game, 2.4 rebounds

In the entire month of January:

Devin Booker: 17.3 points per game, 3.2 rebounds, 2.6 assists
Jahlil Okafor: 17.2 points per game, 5.3 rebounds

Most fans in the NBA, at this point, are looking at Booker as a top 5 pick if there was a re-draft because of his basketball IQ, off-ball movement, his shooting ability, and being able to put the ball on the floor pretty well and drive to the rim. While Booker's stats have trended upward in a big way, Okafor's have trended downward throughout the season.
Honest to goodness, I feel like Okafor's ceiling is an ever-so-slightly better Al Jefferson. Maybe I'm wrong, I dunno, but it's hard to overlook how absolutely awful of a rebounder he is, how he's never going to be a real threat from beyond 15 feet, and he's pretty limited athletically.

By the way, the way that Myles Turner has been playing lately, it's worth discussing taking him over Okafor. It's not far-fetched, and it's a far cry from "immaturity" or "silliness". Karl-Anthony Towns and Kristaps Porzingis are no-brainers. Both have won rookie of the month for their respective conferences every single month this season, and KAT has been running away with the ROY award lately.

Before you go insulting the opinions of others, at least make sure that those opinions are completely baseless.
 
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Rhavicc said:
Over the past 5 games:

Devin Booker: 19 points per game, 3.8 assists, 3.8 rebounds,
Jahlil Okafor: 6.6 points per game, 2.4 rebounds

In the entire month of January:

Devin Booker: 17.3 points per game, 3.2 rebounds, 2.6 assists
Jahlil Okafor: 17.2 points per game, 5.3 rebounds

Most fans in the NBA, at this point, are looking at Booker as a top 5 pick if there was a re-draft because of his basketball IQ, off-ball movement, his shooting ability, and being able to put the ball on the floor pretty well and drive to the rim. While Booker's stats have trended upward in a big way, Okafor's have trended downward throughout the season.
Honest to goodness, I feel like Okafor's ceiling is an ever-so-slightly better Al Jefferson. Maybe I'm wrong, I dunno, but it's hard to overlook how absolutely awful of a rebounder he is, how he's never going to be a real threat from beyond 15 feet, and he's pretty limited athletically.

By the way, the way that Myles Turner has been playing lately, it's worth discussing taking him over Okafor. It's not far-fetched, and it's a far cry from "immaturity" or "silliness". Karl-Anthony Towns and Kristaps Porzingis are no-brainers. Both have won rookie of the month for their respective conferences every single month this season, and KAT has been running away with the ROY award lately.

Before you go insulting the opinions of others, at least make sure that those opinions are completely baseless.
Click to expand...
Good post.
 
Two thoughts:

First, while I understand everyone on a message board has opinions, here are a few very recent links written by people who do this for a living regarding Johnnys long list of guys better than Jahlil Okafor.

From CBS, Oak at number 2 of all rookies:

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on...rzingis-isnt-soft-neither-is-winslows-defense

From USA Today, Oak at number 3 of all rookies:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...-kristaps-porzingis-dangelo-russell/78508746/

From the NBA itself; Oak at number 3 of all rookies:

espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/14708843/coach-mike-krzyzewski-back-duke-blue-devils-overnight-hospital-stay




But I think the bigger point, that can't really be argued?
 
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Oakafor is lazy, he wants to score and that's it. He has no desire to play defense and I doubt that will change. I agree he plays to heavy, he is slow and if he really got into shape that might help.
 
nookam said:
Watching the Notre Dame -Miami game and has went on and on about why didn't the Lakers take Okafor. No mention of character problems?
Dick also pimped Okafor as the best player and should be the #1 pick. No mention of what a historically great season KAT is having and the fact Mn got it right
He also thinks straight out of high school or mandatory 3 years, the baseball rule. Guess he doesn't care those extra 2 years could mean 60 mil or so at the end of career final contract.
Click to expand...

Your avatar is awesome!
 
Come on guys. Duke fans don't watch the NBA or basketball in general. All she had was the stats she got from her ESPN app. Leave the poor little girl alone.
 
if espn had fired vitale years ago, then mods wouldn't have to remove my comments about him. he's terrible at his job, just like anyone paid to cover basketball who has okafor as the second best rookie

bilas said "anyone who thinks karl towns over jahlil okafor is a no-brainer has no brain". i guess we're supposed to pretend this is a reasonable statement just because he's on tv? i guess his rant about how the warriors wouldn't have been able to play draymond green on okafor in the finals, as if they wouldn't have run his ragged on the other end with their spacing and ball movement, was a mature basketball opinion?

okafor's teammates aren't to blame for his lack of explosiveness, and since his entire concept of offensive basketball seems to be to palm the ball and stare at his guy like he's on the and1 mixtape tour, even his offense is less teammate-dependent than most players, who can shoot off the catch or roll off a ballscreen or, since he's supposed to be mr. old school, play that karl malone pin-and-seal game. okafor does none of that, though he does seem to responding to coaching (which he didn't get from the pimp in durham)

booker is extremely young for his class, and his shooting would help any team in any context. okafor is difficult to fit pieces around and has made things worse for his first nba team. jon scott says he'd trade okafor if embiid is healthy--i say the sixers already have a healthy 5 who is a more helpful nba player than okafor in noel, whose ability to protect the rim & guard ballscreens are more valuable in the 21st century than okafor's post precocity

turner blocks shots, rebounds slightly better than okafor, and projects as someone who may grow into a stretch 5

and again, zinger/towns are just on another level. i was one of the few people on earth who thought they were the two best prospects in december 2014, and i'm supposed to give a f about people who can't even see the truth now because they have bylines?

feel free to congratulate yourself on what a no-bs straight-shooting tough guy you are once more. everyone is super impressed
 
JohnnyGentle said:
if espn had fired vitale years ago, then mods wouldn't have to remove my comments about him. he's terrible at his job, just like anyone paid to cover basketball who has okafor as the second best rookie

bilas said "anyone who thinks karl towns over jahlil okafor is a no-brainer has no brain". i guess we're supposed to pretend this is a reasonable statement just because he's on tv? i guess his rant about how the warriors wouldn't have been able to play draymond green on okafor in the finals, as if they wouldn't have run his ragged on the other end with their spacing and ball movement, was a mature basketball opinion?

okafor's teammates aren't to blame for his lack of explosiveness, and since his entire concept of offensive basketball seems to be to palm the ball and stare at his guy like he's on the and1 mixtape tour, even his offense is less teammate-dependent than most players, who can shoot off the catch or roll off a ballscreen or, since he's supposed to be mr. old school, play that karl malone pin-and-seal game. okafor does none of that, though he does seem to responding to coaching (which he didn't get from the pimp in durham)

booker is extremely young for his class, and his shooting would help any team in any context. okafor is difficult to fit pieces around and has made things worse for his first nba team. jon scott says he'd trade okafor if embiid is healthy--i say the sixers already have a healthy 5 who is a more helpful nba player than okafor in noel, whose ability to protect the rim & guard ballscreens are more valuable in the 21st century than okafor's post precocity

turner blocks shots, rebounds slightly better than okafor, and projects as someone who may grow into a stretch 5

and again, zinger/towns are just on another level. i was one of the few people on earth who thought they were the two best prospects in december 2014, and i'm supposed to give a f about people who can't even see the truth now because they have bylines?

feel free to congratulate yourself on what a no-bs straight-shooting tough guy you are once more. everyone is super impressed
Click to expand...

Nope, Johnny, I get it. You, who work in a bank or as a fireman or as a post office mail sorter, knows more about the NBA than the people who actually study and write about the NBA for a living, or even the NBA itself. I mean... that's who you are arguing with. Never mind that you clearly didn't read any of those links I provided, or what I actually posted, as it doesn't seem that anyone is arguing about Towns (who has had a spectacular rookie season) or Porzingis, who most people like a lot. So, good for you, I suppose?

Hey, there are two types of fans in the world. There is one type, probably like you, who wishes death on people they don't agree with and who is convinced that players from other teams are terrible people who cheat, and that rival coaches are horrible people, and that refs are out to get them, and so on and so forth.

Then there are the other fans, more like me, who HATE to lose and love to win and love a good rivalry, but who are also able to take a breath and accept that other teams' coaches are great coaches, and that other teams' players are probably good kids who would fit right in with my own team just fine, and that refs aren't conspiring against my team even if my team doesn't get some calls, and that plenty of rival fans love their team as much as I do and MIGHT even be people I'd like to have a beer and debate sports with, and we'd even have a good time doing it.

You keep being you, though.
 
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TheDude1 said:
Two thoughts:

First, while I understand everyone on a message board has opinions, here are a few very recent links written by people who do this for a living regarding Johnnys long list of guys better than Jahlil Okafor.

From CBS, Oak at number 2 of all rookies:

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on...rzingis-isnt-soft-neither-is-winslows-defense

From USA Today, Oak at number 3 of all rookies:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...-kristaps-porzingis-dangelo-russell/78508746/

From the NBA itself; Oak at number 3 of all rookies:

espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/14708843/coach-mike-krzyzewski-back-duke-blue-devils-overnight-hospital-stay




But I think the bigger point, that can't really be argued?

Johnny is painfully immature, and seems to be the sort of "fan" who gives any fan base a bad name... Although the fact that he deleted his comment about wanting Dick Vitale to die is a step in the right direction.

Edit to add... It looks like there was a bunch of trimming at the start of this thread, taking out Johnnys ridiculousness and some responses from UK fans calling him out for it. That's the only real reason I chimed in on this at all.
Click to expand...
You used the CBS list from January 3rd, here is the updated list. Why did you use the old list????
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on...s-heats-justise-winslow-locks-down-a-top-spot
 
yeah, i'm going to read an article written by somebody who thinks okafor is the second best rookie, and linked by a pompous blowhard incapable of statistical analysis beyond raw counting stats

these people have bylines, so their opinions are more important than fact, and it's not necessary for you to waste any time supporting your position beyond pointing out that people who work in media share them--just repeat that they have media jobs and jump right into another long-winded, obnoxious lecture

bilas had okafor as the best prospect in the draft, and compared him to tim duncan, because he uses the glass. never mind defense and rebounding--you know, the things that make tim duncan a top 10 player all time

stephen a smith is on tv, too. so he must have been right to whine and cry about porzingis. forget reality
 
1war said:
You used the CBS list from January 3rd, here is the updated list. Why did you use the old list????
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on...s-heats-justise-winslow-locks-down-a-top-spot
Click to expand...

LOL, well, would ya look at that. For the record, Nikola Jokic has been playing absolutely lights out these last few games. Terrific for a 2nd round draft pick.

The updated CBS list ranks the rookies over the past month:

1. Karl-Anthony Towns
2. Devin Booker
3. Myles Turner
4. Nikola Jokic
5. Justise Winslow
6. Kristaps Porzingis
7. Emmanuel Mudiay
8. Stanley Johnson
9. Willie Cauley-Stein
10. Jahlil Okafor
 
ananth pandian & aj neuharth-keusch???!

yikes, i didn't know that they wrote those articles

you're right, i must be utterly delusional to disagree with their opinions, given their extensive basketball backgrounds
 
A lot of these metrics and rankings you guys are throwing out there don't take into account minutes/games played. Like Jokic, for instance. Been on an incredibly nice run, but prior to last week he had done very little all year.

There's two guys who have a shot at ROY:

1. KAT (far and away the leader right now)
2. Porzingis (would need a big push, but he's the only other viable candidate)
 
I think Myles Turner is on major rise. Pacers love him and now has him firmly in starting rotation AND starter minutes.

He provides both shooting and defense. More than likely they see him as a vital piece to build a team around with Paul George.

Booker is also picking up steam and this is mainly because Bledsoe AND Knight both got hurt. His numbers are skyrocketing as well.

People who use season average to compare is silly. You want to see who's providing what instead of stats. Players like Booker had two studs ahead of him and had hard time playing when season started. Last 5 games for Booker is

19 PPG, 3.8 RPG, 3.8 APG, 2.6 treys per game at 39.4% (Which is decent, but could be higher).

That's an impressive stat.
 
CatsnRoses said:
A lot of these metrics and rankings you guys are throwing out there don't take into account minutes/games played. Like Jokic, for instance. Been on an incredibly nice run, but prior to last week he had done very little all year.

There's two guys who have a shot at ROY:

1. KAT (far and away the leader right now)
2. Porzingis (would need a big push, but he's the only other viable candidate)
Click to expand...

I think it's one man race. I don't think Porzingis has any chance to catch up.
 
porzingis probably has a better chance playing in new york, and on a decent team, than he would otherwise. but it's not much of a chance at all. <5%

noel is 8th in the nba in FG%, and shooting 60% from the field since the sixers acquired ish smith

so he's an elite rim protector who frequently takes the ball from guards on 1/5 ballscreens, and a good and rapidly improving diver off ballscreens offensively

i think a 7'5 guy who can run and jump and make 3s and guard 4s would be a better fit next to him than a poor defending 5 with no jumper whose entire body is lathered in metaphorical gorilla glue offensively

but i don't blog for usa today so my opinion can't be right
 
Hey,

Sorry for the old link, I just did a google search for results from within a month and grabbed whichever I saw. Didn't mean to leave the most recent one out (although if you read it it seems that Okafor only playing a single game in that time was the main reason he placed where he did.)

I think Towns will likely win Rookie of the Year. Porz or Okafor might, given how big a role they play, but Towns is having a great first year.

As for advanced metrics... they have uses, sure. But how do they account for the impact on a center when the guards fire up shots before rebounders can get into effective position, thus lessening the center's chance of grabbing said rebound? How do they account for guards who get the ball to their bigs when their big is in a vulnerable position, thus increasing the center's chance of missing a shot or getting ripped? How do they account for guards who have poor vision and DON'T get their bigs the ball when they are in ideal position? How do they account for a center (who obviously isn't bringing the ball up court or initiating the offense or dumping the ball down to themselves in the post) being on a HISTORICALLY crappy team? When you find an advanced metric that does, let me know;)

To be honest, I don't entirely care. I'm not a 76ers fan, and I don't watch the NBA. I want Jah to do well because he is a Duke guy, and despite the messes he has been in always struck me as a good kid who managed to keep his head above water despite being a kid who was really at risk since he was young. I don't watch any NBA basketball outside of the occasional snippet, because I don't follow the NBA much; I am more a hockey guy, and even that is basically dead since I have a one year old and a four year old. But I read a bit, and from what I've seen, almost every person who covers the NBA for a living (i.e. not just a random message board fan with an immature hatred of Duke and an overblown sense of themselves, and who thinks that people with funny names can't POSSIBLY know anything about the League, even though they literally cover it for a living) thinks Okafor is one of the top three rookies in the league, has shown TREMENDOUS improvement in his areas of weakness as the year has progressed, and will be a really good NBA player for years to come.
 
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i don't pay attention to the nba. i just ridicule the opinions of people who do.

it's because i'm so mature
 
TheDude1 said:
Hey,

Sorry for the old link, I just did a google search for results from within a month and grabbed whichever I saw. Didn't mean to leave the most recent one out (although if you read it it seems that Okafor only playing a single game in that time was the main reason he placed where he did.)

I think Towns will likely win Rookie of the Year. Porz or Okafor might, given how big a role they play, but Towns is having a great first year.

As for advanced metrics... they have uses, sure. But how do they account for the impact on a center when the guards fire up shots before rebounders can get into effective position, thus lessening the center's chance of grabbing said rebound? How do they account for guards who get the ball to their bigs when their big is in a vulnerable position, thus increasing the center's chance of missing a shot or getting ripped? How do they account for guards who have poor vision and DON'T get their bigs the ball when they are in ideal position? How do they account for a center (who obviously isn't bringing the ball up court or initiating the offense or dumping the ball down to themselves in the post) being on a HISTORICALLY crappy team? When you find an advanced metric that does, let me know;)

To be honest, I don't entirely care. I'm not a 76ers fan, and I don't watch the NBA. I want Jah to do well because he is a Duke guy, and despite the messes he has been in always struck me as a good kid who managed to keep his head above water despite being a kid who was really at risk since he was young. I don't watch any NBA basketball outside of the occasional snippet, because I don't follow the NBA much; I am more a hockey guy, and even that is basically dead since I have a one year old and a four year old. But I read a bit, and from what I've seen, almost every person who covers the NBA for a living (i.e. not just a random message board fan with an immature hatred of Duke and an overblown sense of themselves, and who thinks that people with funny names can't POSSIBLY know anything about the League, even though they literally cover it for a living) thinks Okafor is one of the top three rookies in the league, has shown TREMENDOUS improvement in his areas of weakness as the year has progressed, and will be a really good NBA player for years to come.

Honestly, the only reason I even posted in this thread was because of Johnny's ridiculousness in calling for Dick Vitale to die, especially on the heels of his rabid, over the top, anti-Duke stuff in other threads, and S&C calling him out for it (which also got removed).
Click to expand...
Stopped reading when you said Okafor might win ROY.
 
TheDude1 said:
Hey,

I think Towns will likely win Rookie of the Year. Porz or Okafor might, given how big a role they play, but Towns is having a great first year.
Click to expand...


And I might crap a gold bar later today. I think you can kindly GTFO now.
 
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