I think he will be good, coming out a winning program like Ga.
Vandagriff
- Thread starter screwduke1
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Grumpy said one thing that sticks out. If Stoops opens the offense. It has not mattered the QB so far (besides Levis first year), we just have not opened the offense. I do not expect it to change this year. We are defense heavy up front. Stoops will want ball control so he can control the line of scrimmage from the defense. I look for BV to open it up on lesser competition and against the SEC 8 of our games, we will be conservative. Hope Stoops proves me wrong. But doubt it.
I sure understand you bud, but honestly, I’ll take a 7-6 win all day and jump for joy. lol I too would 1000% like to see us running 20 or so more plays average than the last few years and would hope with our offensive players we can make it happen this season. I think he’s had to play that way for a number of reasons, including our defensive players were our best group and we were dropping so many balls last season early. We’re about as even this year on both sides as I can remember being and should let us take a few more chances and get those big 3td downs. Thanks bud. I’m really high on this group and even though the schedule is pretty tough, I think we’re going to surprise everyone and have an unbelievable year. Let’s go.
That was the rumor. Who knows if it was true but i didn't see where he injured it during the game. He twisted an ankle iirc so maybe somehow his toe got something too but didn't look like it.
Not sure how you are defining "opening the offense" but last year under Coen the Cats were 52/48 pass to run, the only year during the Stoops era where I would call us being balanced. Scang was 42/58, Coen in 2021 was 42/58, then in the Gran years we were almost exactly 2:1 run to pass every year.
IMO Stoops is attempting to move us towards a more modern college offense that requires balance. Stoops will never be a Mike Leach or a Lane Kiffin but the offenses we feature should show more balance and be more along the lines of the best teams like Georgia and Bama.
I don't think there is any evidence to support Stoops having his thumb on the scales pushing OCs to run more. He does have a general liking for the ability to control games at the end with a combination of running and short passing.
By running more plays. I don't know how true it was, but from reading this site UK was near the bottom in total number of plays run during the 23 season, lots of complaining about that. Maybe speeding up the offense would have been less confusing. But imo any means you use to shorten the games is be it running the ball a high percentage or taking near max time between plays does the same thing, reduces the possessions and number of plays you run.
In Scang’s only year, our O-line looked crippled by confusion.
Last year, the light didn’t quite turn on for Leary and his receivers until the U of L and Clemson games. Leary completed below 60 percent of his passes on the season, an anemic number for a team passing the ball 52 percent of the time.
Is that by the play that was called, or how it resulted?
Levis is as so prone to take off and lower a shoulder in ‘21, that that may skew the numbers. He had a lot of runs, most successful, that were obviously called passing plays.
The 22 and 23 offensive play calls were to complicated on multiple levels.
I use Team Rankings and the categories are just pass play and run play, no further specifics given. What you say sounds logical so maybe Coen's play calling was a bit closer to balanced then the stats show.
Blue I understand your statements about Stoops. HOWEVER - this may be the season you see a totally new approach under Stoops. Why do I say that? TEXAS A & M! Stoops had that job but for one reason - his offense! Whether he will retire at Kentucky, be fired from Kentucky or accept another head coaching position - his legacy has been established - unless he changes it. I believe he fully understands that now - and one last thing - WHAT does Stoops have to lose at Kentucky now? No matter what his record is - he is set for life financially. He can do anything and retire anytime very, very comfortably. So, why not go out on top - how can he do that - by opening up the offense and playing to score on every down! I was very down on Stoops after the Texas A & M deal - but now I am very high for the reasons I have mentioned!
Go Big Blue!
I am not sure ATM had full control of that, I think CMS started having 2nd thoughts. Clearly he wasn't who the fanbase wanted, but Saban was stepping away from coaching. At UK CMS has almost 100% fab support before the ATM news leaked, from all the whining done by their fans he was going to have very little fan support there so he decided to stay. Sure he upset some of the fans when he considered leaving, but most have got back on board, the expectations for the 24 season, the recruiting class have taken care of almost all the hard feelings. Look at who ATM ended up hiring, an assistant of the coach they just paid 75m to fire.
There were three or four narratives in the six hour time period the aTm job was being discussed.
I do not know the accuracy of any of them, but will make a serious effort at the QB Club to corner an assistant coach or two (not White or Marrow), to see if what I believe is true.
So, what do I “think” happened??
I “think” the deciding conversation that turned Stoops away from aTm occurred with Coach Marrow. Either he bluntly told Stoops he was not going to aTm and/or talked some plain sense to him.
The friend you’ve shared sports and meals with since grade school is the one who can look you in the eye and tell you that you are being an idiot. And Coach Marrow does have that human gift of getting what he wants with effective communication.
Who knows who blinked first. IMO Stoops was tentatively offered the job by the A&M AD, and he tentatively accepted.
Then Stoops went to tell his trusted guys, Marrow, White, & Coen. Unexpectedly all 3 were hesitant if not outright said they wouldn't follow. To compound things Barnhart informed the gang that all 3 senior assistants would get interviews for Stoops job. This all caused Stoops to reconsider.
At the same time word gets out about the hire among the Aggie fanbase, big money boosters and the University leadership. They are thumbs down on Stoops, they fired Jimbo for putting a relic offense on the field. Now they hire a coach with an even worst offensive reputation!?! The AD reconsiders.
Which happened first?
Then Stoops went to tell his trusted guys, Marrow, White, & Coen. Unexpectedly all 3 were hesitant if not outright said they wouldn't follow. To compound things Barnhart informed the gang that all 3 senior assistants would get interviews for Stoops job. This all caused Stoops to reconsider.
At the same time word gets out about the hire among the Aggie fanbase, big money boosters and the University leadership. They are thumbs down on Stoops, they fired Jimbo for putting a relic offense on the field. Now they hire a coach with an even worst offensive reputation!?! The AD reconsiders.
Which happened first?
A good synopsis of the currents being reported that Saturday night/Sunday morning.
I make no secret that I want Stoops and Marrow to retire in Lexington. Marrow has uttered an unusual desire to the QB Club: upon retirement, he wants to visit all 120 Kentucky Counties by Harley, and personally thank the state for the opportunities he has had, here. Yes, that statement was tailor-made to impress small town folk like me and many others in the QB Club, but that is Marrow’s great communication ability: he puts himself on your level immediately. But I think he feels at home, here.
And I’m not too certain that Brad White is itching to climb the ladder, given his generous compensation package, security and family affinity for Lexington.
And I credit Barnhart: he quickly scheduled interviews with all key subordinates for Sunday (and also Coach Jon Sumrall) and this helped quell any rapid desire by assistants to pack for College Station. Looking at his moves, I think Barnhart had to feel a tad betrayed given his support of Stoops, and he acted effectively to help derail the early momentum of Stoops bailing to aTm.
Someone needs to write a tell-all book in ten years, and let us know what really went on behind closed doors.
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Of course I don't know the behind the scenes happenings that went on, I just don't think it was all ATM's doing that CMS stayed at UK. Like you said could have been CVM talking some sense into him, could have been CMS realizing what the acceptable winning percentage would have to be at ATM or a combination of both or something entirely different. I just think he was the one that pulled the plug on them, not the other way around. Look at who they hired, a less proven coach from Duke who was an assistant to the guy they just play a fortune to fire, looks like a panic hire to me. One would think you would have your coach lined up before firing your current one, I think they did and he changed his mind.
That wasn't Hershel, it was Vernon Hayes with the hobnail boot. Hershel put his helmet through Bates chest
I really like these talking points and hope you are correct...but back of my mind is the whole (old dog new tricks). Stoops is for sure an old dog personality, hope this old dog learns how to mewow on offense.
It's mindset. Boise scored on everyone they played with inferior talent. You need a good scheme and need to rep it to perfection and trust in the players to make plays. I feel like Stoops problem is the trust and reps.
Stoops cannot let go of the rope mostly. If he does this year we will see it as our OC will do some good things with these guys on offense.
Really hoping he just stays off that side of the ball in practice, film and everything. Just run the defense with DC.
I think CMS will retire at UK, loyalty seems to be a family trait. Unfortunately for UK it may be sooner than you want. The reason I think that is family history, if I am not mistaken his dad passed away basically on the sideline at 54, his older brother retired at a relatively young age, 60 I believe. He coaches in the spring time league, but no one cares about that, most people can't even tell you where the teams are located. So wouldn't shock me to see CMS retire at 60. Intense coaches just can't hang around and CMS is intense.
No idea what Marrow will do. Thought he would get a shot at head coach at UK for a couple hours back in the winter.
No good HC is going to stay away from one side of the ball. I agree with you that defense is his strength, and he needs to trust his OC. There’s a huge difference between trusting his OC and staying out of the offense.
As pointed out above, we threw the ball more last year than we ran it. I want to continue that kind of balance.
I agree with you 110% that running every snap down to the last second certainly feels like an unbalanced offense regardless of what play they run. There were several thoughts on what caused the low snap count. I think Stoops wants to increase speed of play in certain situations. Bush addressed this early after his hire.
I’m fine milking the clock when it’s strategic to do so. However, I also want an offense that can go no huddle and take advantage of certain situations.
I do think the combination of it being an emphasis, plus QB’s now having ear pieces in the helmet should increase our snap count.
Bottom line - I’m okay with a balanced offense, but I want to see more snaps. Plus, I want to see us go fast in certain situations when we get defenses in bad matchups and not allow them to substitute.
TBH, I don’t give a shit what offense we run, as long as we win. The only time I care about passing more is if we aren’t winning while running.
I don't just mean passing, misdirection plays TE that can do delayed runs. Not run a gap, run c gap, pass.
I hope he plays better than Leary. I bought into the Leary hype and was majorly disappointed.
No doubt Leary was a poor fit in the McVey Shanahan pro style. Coen didn't help him in simplifying much.
Agreed except that I don't think we can take the next step without being a top 25 passing team. We still need to run the ball but we have to be able to spread a team and be a threat to score on every drive. We can't go into games saying "we need to keep the score under 21 to win"...
Leary was good and you could tell he had talent he just made some terrible throws in game. He would make a hard throw and then miss. 3-4 fairly routine throws in a row. Our WR’s definitely didn’t do him a lot of favors, I’ll give him that.
Leary came in with huge expectations coming off a season ending injury I believe. His injury was a big injury for a QB because of the torque required to make certain throws. Didn't look like he was ever 100% or even pain free at times. Vandagriff is coming in without any injuries, he has shown on a limited basis he can lead an SEC offense against an SEC defense. When he came to UGA he was expected to be the Starting QB by year 3. He just happened to come in behind Stetson Bennett who surprised everyone by taking a snap at UGA and was in a QB battle with Beck until the start of 23 season with many expecting him to win. With the year Beck had I don't think anyone was expecting a QB battle for 24, he wants to play so he left, no one can blame him. But he had looked good in all the practices, I know different when lights come on, but all he lacks is playing time in a competitive situation. He can make every throw you want made, he is a better than average runner, his only drawback is that funky little hitch in his delievery and it may be gone now.
That’s the only bad thing about having so many great players is that a lot of them leave.
Grumpy, as to Stoops loyalty, he WENT TO A&M last year. He went until they pulled the offer, not that I really blame him but if we are discussing his loyalty to UK and MB that has to be brought up. I have seen you post that Stoops was the one who backed out but if it could be proven either way I would bet a large sum that wasn't the case. I like Stoops, but I feel sure he took the bait!
I don't know for a fact that CMS backed out of going to ATM, but I don't think it was 100% them pulling the offer. I am just looking at the way things happened. First the rumors, then a little more smoke, then word leaking he was going to ATM, ATM fans revolting, CMS announcing he was staying, ATM hires Echo. Who has a resume that pales in comparison to CMS. Just my opinion, not factual here, but ATM had their man in CMS, when he pulled his name they went full panic and hired Echo, a former assistant to the guy they just paid 75m to fire. Why would you do that if not in a panic? But that's entirely speculation on my part.
Regardless, whether your version or mine is correct, CMS wasn't all that loyal to UK or Mitch Barnhart.
Now that part is dead on, kind of surprised me a little too. Regardless of how it went down, UK came out the winner here and ATM will be looking again soon.
Plus... A&M is loaded with cash. He might have went to just see how insane they would go... Look at what Jimbo made out with.
Jmo but stoops and a&m had an amicable split. Stoops realized he couldn't bring the valued staff he thought and a&m was already having a tough time selling the hire anyway. What was more interesting to me, from what we know now, was coen apparently didn't want to go but was chasing every nfl opportunity out there.
I see this tired trope way too much. Last year not only did we open it up, we threw the ball, especially deep, way too much. Ray Davis statistically had a mind-blowingly insane year but we rarely, if ever, got him 20 touches a game. It was mind boggling.
As someone initially critical of the hire, i thought scang did a good/very good job. I thought his concepts were very sharp.
Dare unexpectedly leaving destroyed that entire season. Combine that with the staffs inexplicable fervor to get jager on the field, true freshmen wrs, levis being his wildly inconsistent self (on top of being injured), being without crod a chunk of the season - it was amazing we performed as well as we did.
At the end of the day imo 2 things did him in: 1) coen wanted to come back. If that doesn't happen, he is back for another year. 2) he didn't have much charisma and he followed a guy who had charisma in spades. As i often post, our fans love to be sold and coen loved selling. It also didn't help with the players because they were used to a guy being their pal and suddenly now their oc correctly held them accountable.
I see this tired trope way too much. Last year not only did we open it up, we threw the ball, especially deep, way too much. Ray Davis statistically had a mind-blowingly insane year but we rarely, if ever, got him 20 touches a game. It was mind boggling.
As someone initially critical of the hire, i thought scang did a good/very good job. I thought his concepts were very sharp.
Dare unexpectedly leaving destroyed that entire season. Combine that with the staffs inexplicable fervor to get jager on the field, true freshmen wrs, levis being his wildly inconsistent self (on top of being injured), being without crod a chunk of the season - it was amazing we performed as well as we did.
At the end of the day imo 2 things did him in: 1) coen wanted to come back. If that doesn't happen, he is back for another year. 2) he didn't have much charisma and he followed a guy who had charisma in spades. As i often post, our fans love to be sold and coen loved selling. It also didn't help with the players because they were used to a guy being their pal and suddenly now their oc correctly held them accountable.
They are loaded with cash for sure. I have no doubt CMS entertained the thought of leaving, I think everyone agrees with that. I just think that the closer he got to College Station the more he heard their fans complaining the better Lexington and UK looked and he backed out. Thats just my theory, he has plenty of money, from what i have read here he has a successful distillery. Combine that with what had to be a panic hire of Elco. I just believe CMS was their guy and when it fell through they hired Elco in a panic, an assistant of the man they just paid 75m to fire, it makes zero sense.
Yet we were one of the slowest offenses in college football. Opening up the offense does not mean throw the ball only.
We have to play and act like we want the football and want to score points, not play ball control because we do not think we can outscore good opponents. We played scared on offense most of the time against any quality team.
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