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UNC Professor Boxill Fired Over Fraud

Originally posted by loucatfan:


Originally posted by DDS62:

Originally posted by Bell Cat 70:
More heads will roll.
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What makes you think so? I would bet this will be the meat that UNC tosses to the lions. And although these people are culpable, they are also the just the fall guys. They certainly didn't devise the program of cheat, they simply played along. I can't help but notice that no one of consequence like an AD, a Chancellor or even a President has been held responsible, and they apparently all knew of the fraud. Why the hell hasn't ole Roy boy been fired? Why hasn't Gutheridge and Smith been repremanded. Your comments are exactly what the Administration envisioned - a cry of revenge from the public, followed by a statement from the NCAA that "This academic matter has been handled internally by the institution", and no further action taken by the University or the NCAA, with high hopes the scandal dies from silence.
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Agree. I deal with major corporations and crisis management all of the time. My forty years of knowing how institutions and the human mind works tells me there is NO WAY this went on for over 18 years without everyone in an important administrative capacity with UNC including ALL coaches and assistants in the athletic department knowing what was going on. That includes every president of UNC . No way to keep a "secret? "over 18 years which over three thousand people knew about . It could not have continued to take place without the knowledge and consent of the leaders of the institution.

No question whatsoever it is the worst scandal in the history of college sports because it makes a mockery of the very purpose of higher education. UNC should also be heavily penalized not only for the crime but for the cover up and attempts with public funds to whitewash the matter and mitigate damages.
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Agree 100%! This would especially apply to the coaching staff.

It is interesting that both the coach of the men's bball team and the women's bball team commended the ethics of Walden and Boxill, respectively. Neither of them said what I would expect IF they didn't know what was going on. Had that been the case, they would have said, "I am surprised and shocked that happened. I hope it isn't true."
 
Kopitar .... I always took a wait and see approach, as I do with all schools. When PJ Hairston was outed for the second rental car, I called for his immediate suspension and said UNC lacked character if they didn't. That got me banned at the Tar Heel rival board.

As each investigation turned up more academic fraud, and more importantly exposed more UNC cover-up, I called for independent investigain and UNC to stop hiding.

So yes, this issue broke all ties with the Tar Heel fan base on-line because they don't like to hear anything I have been saying the past 2 years.

Do I still have friends that are Tar Heel fans? Of course. They are friends first.

I have repeatedly called for all games that included an ineligible player to be vacated and the school put on probation.

UK would not qualify for the Death Penalty if this happened to our basketball team today. UNC technically does. But I have said for the past 20 years that after SMU, the NCAA will never use it again on a major program. So why even debate that point, it will never happen to anyone from a major conference.
 
The only way to stop this decline in moral integrity is to issue punishments so stiff that all others pandering in such activities stop immediately. That of course would be for SACS to remove accreditation levels high enough that would result in significant levels of government funding to be with held from the University and for the NCAA to issue the death sentance to UNC which they justly deserve. But in fact everybody at the top of these institutions are frantically looking for rationalizations to avoid taking action. It is an absolute joke to make ordinary employees fall guys, many of which were African American and hired for no other reason than the likelihood those people would be inherently sympathetic to black students and more likely to participate in the fraud. I wonder, over the years, how many honest teachers were pushed out because they refused to play along?
 
Originally posted by NC Weasel:
I always took . . . I do with . . . . . . I called for . . . That got me . . . I called for . . . I have been saying . . . I still have friends. . . I have repeatedly . . . I have said for the past 20 years that after SMU, the NCAA will never use it again on a major program. So why even debate that point, it will never happen to anyone from a major conference.
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It's all about U, isn't it? And why debate a point simply because YOU have repeatedly stated it would never again happen to a major program ?? . . . hmmm . . . It's arrogant insistence just like that which makes some of us suspicious about you from time to time. Also, you've conveniently forgotten how you were long in the camp for "regular students also benefitted," so just asking. Lastly, you haven't the first clue what UK would "qualify for" if the conditions were reversed, but one thing is for sure: the dust would already be settled, as justice would have been swift and sure. Likely you would have been all for it. Probably all your "friends" too.
 
Weasel is a good example of someone who posted on another board and was always gracious. He is also a good example of someone who bore the brunt of that board's anger and resentment when the UNC*** posters had to face the fact that UK and Cal had far higher ethical standards for athletes than UNC*** did.

After decades of accusing us of cheating and looking down their self-righteous noses, they found out that Dean Smyth and Roy Williams were cheating kids out of an education and looking the other way when kids drove expensive cars and were involved in drugs and guns.

Their world crumbled and Weasel, who has integrity, was asked to leave. Ironically, many of their posters left as well. Some seemed to run and hide and others, who had integrity, were driven away.

Weasel truly tried to give UNC*** the benefit of the doubt but the mountain of evidence was overwhelming and now everyone knows the truth.
 
Preacher,

Very giving of you to volunteer Weasel's damage control services. Thing about it is that there does exist in this world of anonymity those who greatly desire to have it both ways. I don't know if there is a name for it in the ordinary world of college sports and other fan base arenas, but there are most definitely words for it in other worlds of human interaction, when loyalty is expected as the general key component. And although your 2nd paragraph is spot on, and although much of what you wrote applies perfectly to why other posters who long visited here have vanished (ncaaucoach - although I know too well that he resurfaced under other monikers), the fact remains that some early-on defense just doesn't shrug off so easy simply by saying stuff like "enough additional information came out" blah, blah, blah . . . not if one's true loyalty was always toward Lexington, that is.

Now about your last paragraph. It is very often when benefit of doubt and mountain of evidence collide that a man appears to offer his most defiant defense. Know that, Preacher. Know that.
 
Kopi ..... I have no idea why you have such a hard-on for me. But try and at least get your facts correct. I NEVER used the fact the regular students were in the classes to defend UNC. The only post I ever said anything positive toward UNC about that was early on when citing the Auburn situation as one where the NCAA used that to let them off. But that was not MY position.

I went against the tide at the Carolina site many times, but always respectfully. When the cars and academic issues came up, even following the rules was not enough to stay. And we'll before those issues, Mike Irby (admin) gave me numerous timeouts for stirring up trouble over the years. Just because I wasn't a hateful, name calling postER does not make me less of a UK fan.

Keep firing if this makes you feel better .... but you asked MY OPINION on things and then attacked me for an answer that was all about me? WTF did you think you would get?
 
I would like to interject on that note Weasel because you alluded numerous times albeit indirectly to the point about name calling or jumping to conclusions about my posts when in fact I was dead on correct about the situation at every turn . You stated it as if your opinion was more measured and acted as if it was elevated for simply straddling the fence , I always assumed the company you kept had rubbed off .

Nobody expects you to be hateful but it was extremely easy to see what was going on , nobody had reason to give UNC the benefit of the doubt except you . Every time you extended UNC the benefit of the doubt it proved to be the wrong move . Given that , maybe your perception of hate or conclusions was poor judgement instead . No real venom intended in my post just an observation .
 
Weasel - I didn't say anything about you actually "defending" when referencing "regular students." Just that you were "in that camp" so to speak a couple of years ago. Maybe it would be more precise to say that you did, for a time (originally), endorse the low likelihood of any retribution on acct. of regular students being included. That was your approach then and I'm not going to split hairs whether that constitutes defense or not. btw, I wouldn't have attacked you one iota were it not for your arrogant assertion that the debate about death penalty should be off the table simply because of what YOU have historically opinioned. But if you could just toughen up a little bit I'm sure you could handle it just fine. Think maybe you spent way too much time on the Carolina boards. MUCH thicker skin 'round these parts.
This post was edited on 1/4 2:16 AM by KopiKat
 
The NCAA requirements for deathe penalty I think are that your program be under probation already or within a 3-5 year period when the new problem is found ..... something like that. Therefore my assertion is UK basketball would not qualify for the Death penalty under NCAA rules.

UNC would for football only.

But I still doubt anyone ever gets it again unless it's a small program.
 
For sensibility's sake - Weasel - may I assume that I'm welcome to add at this point that the NCAA is an unregulated regulator, allowed to impose it's policies and restrictions whenever it sees fit - or not? I'm sure they could re-write a whole new set of rules just for the sake of enforcing them in response to a particular condition if they damn well wanted to. We can all cite examples of how this regulator has acted without evenness, and certainly without any love for timeliness (unless certain violators are involved, and even then only scarce evidence needed to apply - my God, how two-faced can one institution be? It is no wonder they and unc*** seem to be so in love with the other).

Is it your opinion then - have you gone on record? - that unc*** did in fact win championships supported by players during the season who were ineligible?
 
Clearly, and I have said that. The onlY thing I don't know is exactly which players, besides J Peppers, Hairston, and McCants. Beyond that, we know there are some but not which ones exactly. Someone with access to transcripts would have to identify them and UNC is shieled by privacy laws.

Are you now acknowledging the NCAA would either need a rule change or to ignore their own rules (i.e. Penn St) to give UK a death penalty TODAY if something similar were found here?
 
To be absolutely precise, no, the unregulated regulator would not required to change anything for what would be deemed the pursuit of high moral principle if these conditions applied to the University of Kentucky men's basketball program. And yes, they would freely ignore any "rules" - as voluntarily implemented at some historical point - to punish the UK program for infractions that would not be interpreted as mere "fake classes," but more deliberately to the truth as a systemic scheme which for two decades forcibly used the virtuous lure of minority studies to deny minority youths of their due education. Very dutifully, therefore, it would be announced, and fit for the doing, to punish the UK program at a rate considered above and beyond, fitting in response to actions more egregious than the NCAA had ever imagined to encounter when drafting it's innocently inadequate codes and policies years before.

This post was edited on 1/5 8:44 PM by KopiKat
 
Originally posted by NC Weasel:
Clearly, and I have said that. The onlY thing I don't know is exactly which players, besides J Peppers, Hairston, and McCants. Beyond that, we know there are some but not which ones exactly. Someone with access to transcripts would have to identify them and UNC is shieled by privacy laws.

Are you now acknowledging the NCAA would either need a rule change or to ignore their own rules (i.e. Penn St) to give UK a death penalty TODAY if something similar were found here?
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UNC*** is not shielded by the law from the NCAA looking at player's transcripts.
 
From the N&O and the Wainstein report explained very clearly:

The N&O reported in June that five members of the championship team, including four key players, had relied heavily on the paper classes: 52 enrollments during their time at UNC. The Wainstein documents, however, have more detail and show a heavy concentration during the spring semester of 2005, when the team was driving toward a national title. At least 5 players took 3 paper classes each....that alone makes them ineligible as they didn't have enough credits without AFAM.

Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/11/08/4305374_2005-unc-basketball-champs-2-semesters.html?rh=1#storylink=cpy
Heavily registered for members for mens basketball puts the onus on the NCAA to vacate the '05 title at minimum. All they have to do is expose the transcripts.

Honestly though, the NCAA could just banish the titles without explanation and UNC could do nothing to appeal the decision.

It is with that the NCAA needs to do the right thing and not tolerate this.
 
Por phrasing on my part, UNC IS shielded because LEGALLY they cannot release a players transcript to the public, and that protects THEM right now. The law protects the student's right to privacy, but right now UNC can hide behind it. So it shields them in a sense.

Kopikat ..... you are a riot man. That last response was great. Pure gold. I do mean that.
 
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